AIR TEMP VS. WATER TEMP?

[sammyz2646]

So if plants love air temps around 80 and plants love water temps around 68-71, which is more beneficial? Keep my room at 80 and deal with warmer water in res? Or lower temps in room to 70 and keep water cooler. I have been doing RDWC but it was not making me as happy as just doing hydro in rockwool. Seems like i could never keep that water temp just right. I have a great A/C setup and can lower room temp to 65 if desired. So i turned my RDWC into a res that has two pumps. See before, with the RDWC, the pump being on the entire time was creating too much heat and res temps were around 74. too warm! Now back to hydro and rockwool, just using the buckets as a res is working great. I have two pumps in each res. Both on timers. One waters for 1 min 4 times a day during light cycle and another circulates entire system ten minutes prior to each feeding. (This has really helped with res temp control. Helped but not solved. I just left all the airstones in res for extra DO. I have also been doing the ice bottle shuffle just to keep res temp below 70

So my question is, Which is more important? Keep air temp up to 80 for plant growth,or lower air temp to maintain lower res temps. Or just keep the room at 70 and res temps will be fine. Will lower room temps around 70 slow plant growth?

 

[Vespatian]

My understanding of any DWC or RDWC system is that water temp is key, hence have you considered a $400 chiller?

 

[sammyz2646]

Like I was saying, I just switched away from the RDWC just because of warm water temp issues. Now that my roots are not bathing in nutrient high warm bath water and protected now by the rockwool, I can water when I choose.When the water conditions are just right. I can ph up or down and adjust nutients in res BELOW plants just prior to feeding without direct contact with those precious roots. I have thought about water chillers, but i heard that they are a bit ineffiecient. Anyone have any brands they like? How much juice do they need and do they create lots of heat too?

 

[Haps]

In my tidal systems, which are ebb n flo buckets basically, I insulate the reses, buckets, feed lines, and have covers for the top of the buckets, so I keep my water cool by keeping the room cool when lights are off. My canopy ranges from 80-90, but my water stays about 70. This will not work in all settings, but for me, insulation is key. There are pics in my old gallery if you want to see detail.
H

 

[ubet28]

For one 80 is starting to get hot more in mid 70 s is ideal for ambient temp. 80 and up to 88 is ok with added co2. The water plays a huge factor as well water holds more oxygen at 60 verses 80 not to mention rot and many other problems that can arise from warm water. You should never let the res get above 85 i keep me res at 68 all the time except when i do water changes its room temp witch is 70 to 72 but after 1/2 hr my chiller has set it to 68.

I would say if i had to choose one or the other i would say cool water. Cause hot temps are just gonna cut yield. And hot water will have a greater factor on not even having a harvest.

If i was you i would move res out side the room first then i would invest in a chiller and get proper ventilation and fans. Temps around 70 are a little chilly. But not as bad as 80 in my opinion i would say shoot for 75 to 77 room temp and 68 to 72 water temp.

"I have thought about water chillers, but i heard that they are a bit inefficient. Anyone have any brands they like? How much juice do they need and do they create lots of heat too?"

I love my chiller and if it went out i would order one first thing. I have had mine 4 years and not one problem. I bought a sunleaves brand they also have Active Aqua brand. I would defiantly get at last the 1/4 horse one for room to grow.I bought the 1/10 model

 

[PuReKnOwLeDgE]

You must have a chiller before you run RDWC. I had mine sitting in its box over a year before I even purchased one bucket. Now I own 2 chillers, they are a very important asset to a RDWC grow. Make sure you do your research before purchasing one and make sure it can handle your reservoir water capacity. The reason to grow RDWC is becasue it is fast, and puts out good yeilds. Anything less and you are settling, so get a chiller. They are pricey but they cost what? 1 ounce? Takes money to make money

 

[Zealious]

ever tried using silica? if u keep temps high the silica is supposed to make them handle higher temps

 

[sammyz2646]

Ok guys thanks for the thoughts. Yes i do use dutchmaster silica with lovely results. I love to re-invest in this project. So my res volume is approx 20-30 gallons. I would prefer to buy one size bigger than i need just to ensure there is plenty of cooling power. Any suggestions of what brand and size for 20-30 gallons? I have heard that polar bear chillers are good

 

[Zealious]

Man thats going to be pricey. Call me cheap but I think you should keep your temps at 78 and then insulate your resevoir that should get your water around 70-75 this is about where im at. I can pretty much gurantee if you get ur rez shaded you should see a drop in rez temp atleast 5deg. I would just play with what you have.. what color is your rez anyway? you might be absorbing heat from your light.

 

[Zealious]

Oh yea and you can make a descent water chiller by hooking up coper tubing to a hose. and droping the tubing into your res.. then run COLD water from a tap or from a cooler rez through out the coper tubing. The ghetto chiller is effective and will absorb heat and carrie it away. the trick is moving water... thats more important than cold water.. IE if your water in the chiller is same temp as water in the rez.. you will still see a drop in rez temp..

If you do this you want to get as much surface area copper tubing as possible in the rez. and you want the chiller to recirculate. you have a lot of options with this... If you dont notice enough of a drop in temps of your rez.. you could use ice watter in the chiller. just use something insulated well. like a cooler. or better yet a large thermos. then put a water pump inside. send it through copper tubing back to the cooler. wala. It doesnt get more reliable than a passive system. if its a descent cooler the ice should last your 5+ days. if you have a fridge that makes ice.. this system could work for you. just add more ice once a week.

This might not even be called for.. just having the chiller outside of the grow room, in a dark cool place will work great. I really think this might be your answer. but this doesnt work for everyone.

 

[morrisgreenberg]

hey zealouos, i dont know about the copper thing touching rez water, i believe i have read that copper changes the composistion of water or visa versa, ever see a city skyline with green roofs? those roofs are made of old school copper, this is why chillers use titanium...as for chillers and such i always recommend either getting an a/c in the space to get temps to 72F daytime (depending on wattage of lights 5kBTU should be good per 1000watts) or go for a $400 chiller. no hydro unless temps are controlled. i prefer to use chillers, 72-78F is a great air temp, if you used co2 your plants will flourish up to 95F, either way a good chiller is a great way to ensure a good crop, root rot from high temps is just heartbreaking. a model i like is the polar bear cc-50 1/3HP very efficient

 

[morrisgreenberg]

at the time i got the cc-50 off this same guy here http://www.aquastealth.com/chillers.aspx, he has it now for $490, was 400 shipped, i strongly recommend you get larger than need, they say the 1/3 HP can chill 90gallons minus 35F, they dont take into account you may have a few thousand watts of lights over your rez, he also has the 1/5HP that i know a few people run and love it, better than other brands running same price units only 1/10HP, also this guy sells power heads cheap, like $16 for 370GPH

 

[ubet28]

Ok guys thanks for the thoughts. Yes i do use dutchmaster silica with lovely results. I love to re-invest in this project. So my res volume is approx 20-30 gallons. I would prefer to buy one size bigger than i need just to ensure there is plenty of cooling power. Any suggestions of what brand and size for 20-30 gallons? I have heard that polar bear chillers are good

Like i said sunleaves or Active aqua get the 1/4 Hp sunleaves will cost around 500.00 and the Active around 600.00 check ebay.

 

[2fast4u2]

Ebb & Flow is so much easier than dwc, lol.

I keep reading about all the problems people have with res temps/ root rot and so forth.

Dwc is big, bulky and really involved until you get the hang of it.

My res temps get up to the 80's, but in ebb&flow, you dont have to worry about res temps, or root rot.

Lots of grows under my belt to finally come to ebb&flow, its the easiest, prove me wrong somebody and ill give you every seed i own.

 

[ubet28]

"co2 your plants will flourish up to 95F"

This is not true even with co2 enrichment you should not let your temps get above 85F How do i know because i ran co2 with 2k in a 9x6x7 room and had temps of 89F and needless to say i didn't have a good harvest.

the key here is first have a solid water temp 68F. Then get the room dialed in and shoot for temps between 75 and 77. The canopy should be 77F.

In a grow room temps and ventilation are 50%
Water and PH are 40%
and nutrients 10%.

KEEP IT SIMPLE!!!!!!!! and don't take shortcuts they will end up costing you more money in the long run.

 

[Zealious]

Didnt think of the reaction between copper and water. Dont know if it would be a problem. But I agree. A ac in your space would be a better investment. and cheaper.

 

[ubet28]

Ebb & Flow is so much easier than dwc, lol.

I keep reading about all the problems people have with res temps/ root rot and so forth.

Dwc is big, bulky and really involved until you get the hang of it.

My res temps get up to the 80's, but in ebb&flow, you dont have to worry about res temps, or root rot.

Lots of grows under my belt to finally come to ebb&flow, its the easiest, prove me wrong somebody and ill give you every seed i own.

May be easier but sure wont produce like my aero set up.

 

[2fast4u2]

May be easier but sure wont produce like my aero set up.

ha ha, touche!

you my friend are absolutely right!

aero provides the alpha and omega of growing conditions for roots, however, after a single run, i decided that it was too complicated to keep stable at the time. (ph flux is a bitch with aero)

I could pull of an aero grow now with no problems, but i will only advocate aero/dwc for experienced growers as you really shouldnt jump into the more complicated methods of hydroponics until you have some experience.

Hydro is still easier than soil, i will take that to my grave.

 

[2fast4u2]

"co2 your plants will flourish up to 95F"

This is not true even with co2 enrichment you should not let your temps get above 85F How do i know because i ran co2 with 2k in a 9x6x7 room and had temps of 89F and needless to say i didn't have a good harvest.

the key here is first have a solid water temp 68F. Then get the room dialed in and shoot for temps between 75 and 77. The canopy should be 77F.

In a grow room temps and ventilation are 50%
Water and PH are 40%
and nutrients 10%.

KEEP IT SIMPLE!!!!!!!! and don't take shortcuts they will end up costing you more money in the long run.

this post is beautiful.

thanks

2fast

 

[ubet28]

(ph flux is a bitch with aero)

Thats no lie there it did take awhile to fine tune the water now i hardly use ph up or down at all just nutes or water.

I acutely did Ebb & Flow with serious AK-47 i did pull 7 zips a plant, they were 3 ft plants. Then i bought my aero set up and fell in love.

Sorry to the OP i will not clog up your thread no more.