ICMAG Administration endorses The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

[dagnabit]

Dag....I have been stopped probably 6-7 times + P.O. came into my (micro)grow house. Rec shown, done deal. Now, the only time real weight was involved(more than OZ) was the grow and the PO so that has to be factored in.

BBB

but you understand the difference between anecdotal evidence and reality.

i had a buddy in san jose explain to me how a rec offers an affirmative defense and a card offers protection from arrest.

i realize in the northern part of the state there is not much diff between a rec and a card....
but legally the difference is HUGE

 

[dagnabit]

[1] On the sample of a 4473 I have (the 2008 revision), question 11e reads: "Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana, or any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?"

[2] Marijuana is a Schedule I controlled substance under 21 USC 812 . (See (c)(10) of Schedule I)

[3] There is no provision for the lawful prescription of Schedule 1 controlled substances (as there is for Schedule II, II, IV and V controlled substances) under 21 USC 829. It is unlawful to prescribe a Schedule I controlled substance and any purported prescription of a Schedule I controlled substance is invalid under federal law.

So a person who may be lawfully using marijuana under state law is still an unlawful user under federal law and therefore a prohibited person under 18 USC 922(g)(3). So possession of a gun by anyone who is a user of marijuana, even if legal under state law, commits a federal felony by possessing a gun.
i guess prop 19 wont protect gun owners from felonies when it comes to pot.


Legal gun + Legal pot = Federal Felony. Even in the state of California.

Prop 19 will do nothing to to give you guns and pot with a get out of jail card.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=318284&highlight=Prop19
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=318825&highlight=Prop19


fucking bullshit...we can get drunk and wave our guns around...but cant smoke a joint without being a felon.

i guess i commit felonies every day...

if you are not committing a crime how do you get firearm enhancements?

your right though not 19 or 215 or 420 will protect you from federal gun + drug charges if the feds come knocking.

 

[Smoke Buddy]

So people now say all use is medicinal? I asked a few friends why they smoke and they all said recreational. So now if I smoke it's medicinal, lol? What next?

Where do people come up with some of these things? Are cigarrettes medicinal? Is coffee medicinal?

I realize your questions are rhetorical. Totally out of sync with the true value of cannabis. You ignore that when you smoke you are destressing thereby keeping your body safer from disease. Thats just the most basic goodness we all get from cannabis. There are sooo many more good reasons to use cannabis medicinally... giving her the credit for your good life of good sleep, calm neves and overall wellness. Not all realize that but I do.
Well then you and your friends definitely wouldnt qualify for a rec. So I know if your state passed a liberal mmj law, like Cali, you would never go ask for a recomendation because since you are all perfectly healthy and cannot benefit from medicinal mj that would be lying right? I wonder... if you had the chance to take advantage of that you would suddenly realize its the smartest way to keep governement out and leave the power of the herb to the people. (Who should pay taxes on any sales btw) Suddenly you may realize the therapeutic effects that you enjoy from cannabis. Many have come to this conclusion here. You are not here and you have a different viewpoint. Thats cool but your cred on mmj is low. Im trying to help you get up to speed as to why cannabis is good for you. And that aint no lie.

 

[Yes4Prop215]

i guess it also applies to the trucking industry too. you cant have a class A DL if you have marijuana in your system

"I also have a Class A (CDL), and (please correct me if necessary) in order for Class A drivers to be able to take advantage of any legalization of pot is for the U.S. DOT, the Federal Highway Administration and / or the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration to either suspend or completely stop the enforcement of 49CFR §40.85(a). Reputable trucking industry carriers would have to cooperate with this (they would likely hire their own private companies to test for Marijuana), so even if it were legal straight across the board, and the BoR had a 26A, there would still be lots of stubbornness, and lawsuits would have to be filed. Pot advocates have a HELLUVALONG ways to go."


wish 19 had a little more balls on it to take out these stupid federal laws.

i guess the passage of 19 would help put us into the direction of federal legalization but it seems like such a longshot.

but i still dont like 19 because of the extreme legal eagles on here...who keep saying scary shit like "OZs for 30 bucks!!"

how the hell is the state gonna make tax revenue off 30 bucks an OZ. tahts way too extreme and i dont like the sound of it. if weed was 32 an OZ i could see alot of my friends and I all becoming super stoners smoking 8th blunts every day....not healthy. they need to keep the price high in order to cut back consumption.

 

[dagnabit]

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ghlight=Prop19

thanks for that

a LOT of professed non mj users voting YES on that site!

gives hope.


and they all say the same thing..
19 wont change fed law but as far as state goes our firearms will be just fine.

 

[BigBudBill]

but you understand the difference between anecdotal evidence and reality.

i had a buddy in san jose explain to me how a rec offers an affirmative defense and a card offers protection from arrest.

i realize in the northern part of the state there is not much diff between a rec and a card....
but legally the difference is HUGE

hmm. I would say I understand the diff between the law and reality. I understand what would have happened had it been larger amounts or a larger garden. Actually dont even need to get your rec renewed unless you need to go into a dispensary.

People v. Windus

(2008): The Court of Appeal for the Second Appellate District held that the trial court improperly denied a medical marijuana defense to the defendant. The court held that the defendant's medical marijuana recommendation did not expire, even though the doctor who issued it required yearly evaluations. The court further held that patients are not bound by the quantities specified in SB 420, but may possess an amount of marijuana that is consistent with their personal medical use. Click here to view the ruling.

 

[dagnabit]

i guess it also applies to the trucking industry too. you cant have a class A DL if you have marijuana in your system

"I also have a Class A (CDL), and (please correct me if necessary) in order for Class A drivers to be able to take advantage of any legalization of pot is for the U.S. DOT, the Federal Highway Administration and / or the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration to either suspend or completely stop the enforcement of 49CFR §40.85(a). Reputable trucking industry carriers would have to cooperate with this (they would likely hire their own private companies to test for Marijuana), so even if it were legal straight across the board, and the BoR had a 26A, there would still be lots of stubbornness, and lawsuits would have to be filed. Pot advocates have a HELLUVALONG ways to go."


wish 19 had a little more balls on it to take out these stupid federal laws.

i guess the passage of 19 would help put us into the direction of federal legalization but it seems like such a longshot.

but i still dont like 19 because of the extreme legal eagles on here...who keep saying scary shit like "OZs for 30 bucks!!"

how the hell is the state gonna make tax revenue off 30 bucks an OZ. tahts way too extreme and i dont like the sound of it. if weed was 32 an OZ i could see alot of my friends and I all becoming super stoners smoking 8th blunts every day....not healthy. they need to keep the price high in order to cut back consumption.

cmon man ....

we have conversed in other threads and your smarter than to believe $30.00 ounces....

the price will be unaffected for every person who chooses to grow their own.

how much has the price come down since 215?

 

[BigBudBill]

cmon man ....

we have conversed in other threads and your smarter than to believe $30.00 ounces....

the price will be unaffected for every person who chooses to grow their own.

how much has the price come down since 215?

I can't believe top line genetics will ever go for that price. Maybe some commercial outdoor.

 

[ReelBusy1]

I can't believe top line genetics will ever go for that price. Maybe some commercial outdoor.

Like a cheap wine.
Finally that Mexican schwag brick weed will sell for what it is actually worth
$30 an oz.
instead of an artificially supported price that does not reflect it's quality to the marketplace.

 

[BigBudBill]

Like a cheap wine.
Finally that Mexican schwag brick weed will sell for what it is actually worth
$30 an oz.
instead of an artificially supported price that does not reflect it's quality to the marketplace.

No...that 30 mexiswag WILL reflect its quality to the marketplace. As will some $200/oz SSSDH

 

[dagnabit]

mexi brick has its place...

14-18 yearolds?

or maybe crack heads to take the edge off?

you could make BHO i guess but GIGO....

 

[nomaad]

So people now say all use is medicinal?

Is coffee medicinal?

to the first part. while all use is not medicinal, much of it is. even the legal interpretation of the language in 215 "any other illness for which marijuana provides relief" accepts that any condition for which marijuana provides relief to be valid.

While the people you are polling consider it to be "recreational" its not much of a reach to interpret as these people using cannabis to chill out, so that they can loosen up and recreate. That which they are loosening up from is "illness" and actual diagnoses can be found to fit these symptoms. The drug companies do it all the time. They create a disease with 47 random possible symptoms (any combo of one or more will suffice) and then market a new drug to treat it. What patients have done with 215 is a hell of a lot less shady than that.

my personal opinion is that our society is ill and ganja is the best medicine to cure it. Period. It may not stand up in court, but it is my true and heartfelt belief.

Either interpretation is sufficient for me to see 215 as a defacto legalization.

And yes... the active ingredient in coffee, caffeine is highly medicinal. Its found in many OTC and prescription medicines and used to treat everything from migraines to (wait for it!) FATIGUE. so... anybody who uses coffee as a pick me up is using it in a fully AMA approved medicinal application.

If you're drinking decaf purely for taste (and not for the homeopathic dose of caffeine that remains), it is not medicinal. Point conceded.

Making the comparison to cigarettes is just plain faulty.

 

[Babbabud]

there ya go

there ya go

I have family in Antioch. They smoke daily but refuse to go to a doctor, tell him a lie and have their names recorded somewhere as a med user. I wouldn't do it either.

There's a bill now that will let them grow and smoke their own, legally, in the privacy of their own home.

And Babba, could you show me where 215 was designed for everyone? I have to go and get some things done, but I'll ans your response when I get back....

A) To ensure that seriously ill Californians have the right to obtain and use marijuana for medical purposes where that medical use is deemed appropriate and has been recommended by a physician who has determined that the persons health would benefit from the use of marijuana in the treatment of cancer, anorexia, AIDS, chronic pain, spasticity, glaucoma, arthritis, migraine or any other illness for which marijuana provides relief.


The authors intentionally wrote the Bill to give the doctors plenty of room to make MMJ accessible to anyone that desires it. Im sure you guys will have a little different take on it but it is what it is. The authors knew full and well that it would be years and years before cannabis would be considered for any sort of decrim or legalization(whatever you guys are calling it now) and knew very well exactly how their words would work out. Im not here to argue.. just giving my real world take on it.

 

[BigBudBill]

mexi brick has its place...

14-18 yearolds?

or maybe crack heads to take the edge off?

you could make BHO i guess but GIGO....

Or my dad, who can't handle much more than one hit of my homegrown without tripping out. Jail(yes for cannabis) and the fear of going back has him paranoid, even when he visits CA....(He can handle nighttime Indica

 

[JJScorpio]

If you knew me like some do you'd know there is no way I'm going to a doc and sign anything and have anyone knowing my business. It's my business and my body and I'm not selling out to nobody when I'm healthy. They can kiss my ass. And then some doc would get in trouble and hand over all the names of people he's given certificates to or someone in his Office can start passing names around. Thanks, but no thanks.

And if they gave me 25 sq foot and I could smoke and grow at my home, in my privacy that would be a good start for me.

I've smoked Cannabis for over 30 years so I think I'm aware of what "she" does for me. And I'm sure my lungs would be much healtheir had I not smoked all those pounds. But it's my body and I'll do with it what I want without signing anything..... If I were ill and a doc offered me a certificate to smoke, I'd gladly take it. But if I'm healthy and he said "here sign this and you can smoke cannabis" I'd tell him to kiss my ass.... I abide by enough regulations, I don't need any more.

And if you really thought "she" helps so many people, why wouldn't you want people to be able to legally grow and smoke their own, instead of bowing down to the powers that be?

And to be fair, Richard Lee could keep his Gov't taxed Cannabis until it rots for all I care. I'd never buy a joint of taxed Cannabis. But I have no problem using his Bill so anyone can grow and smoke their own...

I realize your questions are rhetorical. Totally out of sync with the true value of cannabis. You ignore that when you smoke you are destressing thereby keeping your body safer from disease. Thats just the most basic goodness we all get from cannabis. There are sooo many more good reasons to use cannabis medicinally... giving her the credit for your good life of good sleep, calm neves and overall wellness. Not all realize that but I do.
Well then you and your friends definitely wouldnt qualify for a rec. So I know if your state passed a liberal mmj law, like Cali, you would never go ask for a recomendation because since you are all perfectly healthy and cannot benefit from medicinal mj that would be lying right? I wonder... if you had the chance to take advantage of that you would suddenly realize its the smartest way to keep governement out and leave the power of the herb to the people. (Who should pay taxes on any sales btw) Suddenly you may realize the therapeutic effects that you enjoy from cannabis. Many have come to this conclusion here. You are not here and you have a different viewpoint. Thats cool but your cred on mmj is low. Im trying to help you get up to speed as to why cannabis is good for you. And that aint no lie.

 

[dagnabit]

A) To ensure that seriously ill Californians have the right to obtain and use marijuana for medical purposes where that medical use is deemed appropriate and has been recommended by a physician who has determined that the persons health would benefit from the use of marijuana in the treatment of cancer, anorexia, AIDS, chronic pain, spasticity, glaucoma, arthritis, migraine or any other illness for which marijuana provides relief.


The authors intentionally wrote the Bill to give the doctors plenty of room to make MMJ accessible to anyone that desires it. Im sure you guys will have a little different take on it but it is what it is. The authors new full and well that it would be years and years before cannabis would be considered for any sort of decrim or legalization(whatever you guys are calling it now) and knew very well exactly how their words would work out. Im not here to argue.. just giving my real world take on it.

many at the time expressed a fear of the exact complacency we are seeing today.

i remember jack jorge and ed stating the fear that medical marijuana would stifle the legalization movement.

 

[Babbabud]

Well if it wasnt for those of us that were willing to sign up with the doctors and recieve our 215 recommendation I dont believe MJ would be main stream enough to even be on the ballot now. Im so grateful to the whole med movement and all the people that signed up ... sick or not... since the door was left open to make it easy.... so that MJ has moved into the mainstream of conversation everywhere. Its what it has takin for us Californians to bring it this far. Vote Yes On 19 . Thanks so much to the Authors of 215 for getting us all thinking about alternative meds

 

[JJScorpio]

I think I just figured out why this pisses me off.

I have spent a lifetime growing, smoking, suppling cones and genetics to people and enjoying herb, all the while staying in front of the law as best I can. Just the thought of me bowing down and giving in after all this time would be nothing short of a defeat to me.

If they offered me what Cali's being offered, I'd jump on it in a second, all the while knowing that I wasn't going to quit pushing for more and more until people could grow and smoke as much as they wanted. I'd go along with them and tell them what a great idea their taxed weed is, knowing I'd never buy a drop of it and I'd be doing everything I could to make sure no one else bought any either.

I'd let the Govt open that door and then I'd really get people growing their own so they could enjoy it tax free and self sufficient.

Maybe if I'd only been doing this for a few years I'd feel different. But I've been doing it for a lifetime. For me, signing a paper saying I was sick for the right to smoke would be nothing short of defeat for me. Now don't get me wrong, I respect those people that are sick and need Cannabis and I'm glad the program is there for them. But it isn't for me....

 

[nomaad]

kiss my ass.... I abide by enough regulations, I don't need any more.

so why should we accept new regulations on cannabis? don't we already have enough... in California?

I don;t know what to think about your statement that you wouldn't get a script and smoke legally under 215's umbrella if you lived in cali. you can shout it to the mountaintops, but until you live in Cali and actually make the choice to shun 215, knowing that it offers protection to your lifestyle, your proclamation doesn't move me. You are 100% entitled to your opinion but it won't bear weight to those actually making this decision.

Rejecting 215 based on your personal moral objections is a choice. Just like voting for 19 is a choice. Either way, you are opting into certain regulations. If you live in California, that is. You, on the other hand, have no options and that sucks. Personally, there is something to be said for sticking with the flawed regulations we've got, which are working out better and better as time goes on.

 

[Smoke Buddy]

If you knew me like some do you'd know there is no way I'm going to a doc and sign anything and have anyone knowing my business. It's my business and my body and I'm not selling out to nobody when I'm healthy. They can kiss my ass. And then some doc would get in trouble and hand over all the names of people he's given certificates to or someone in his Office can start passing names around. Thanks, but no thanks.

And if they gave me 25 sq foot and I could smoke and grow at my home, in my privacy that would be a good start for me.

I've smoked Cannabis for over 30 years so I think I'm aware of what "she" does for me. And I'm sure my lungs would be much healtheir had I not smoked all those pounds. But it's my body and I'll do with it what I want without signing anything..... If I were ill and a doc offered me a certificate to smoke, I'd gladly take it. But if I'm healthy and he said "here sign this and you can smoke cannabis" I'd tell him to kiss my ass.... I abide by enough regulations, I don't need any more.

And if you really thought "she" helps so many people, why wouldn't you want people to be able to legally grow and smoke their own, instead of bowing down to the powers that be?

Dude, The Supreme Court of the US has held that medical records are sacred. You dont get on a list and doctors dont reveal who they recomended for. Thats one of the great things about 215. We gotta get on the same page here if we're going to debate. Your premise is just completely wrong.

So, you say you dont get any medicianl benefit. You sure about that? 30 years of smoking and it doesnt do anything medicinal? Do you ever use it to get to sleep? Do you ever use it to calm down after a trying day? No? Ok then maybe you are one in a million

Almost every smoker I know here has a rec. So we can allready do what you say I need 19 for. Its legal now. I have a piece of paper that says so with a shiny embossed stamp and signatures... LOL. ITS REAL. Thats probably why many here are happy with what we have. We have it pretty well made for a small personal growers perspective. Why would we want to trade that for the great unknown? In fact we do KNOW this state cannot run anything without corruption and greed.. Sacramento politicians have destroyed this states economy and still continue to flounder instead of making the hard decisions on issues that they themselves ignored until they became behemoth. Its just one aspect but here its big.

Getting a rec here is NOT bowing down at all. Where did you get that idea? It's completely legal and private, contrary to your imagined scare scenario above.

peace out