Growers are just saying NO to pot legalization

[Sam_Skunkman]

Well the 800,000 is not in California and you know it... Why not just use the world numbers? It would be just as disengenuous. Here there are 70,000 tickets written at 100 bucks each, which we are trying to change to an infraction so that people wont get a misdemeanor for weed. That would be the Leno bill. I dont see you talking much about that... It is what we need, not tax and regulate. The other thing we dont need is the drama and the name calling. If you feel sick, you know how I feel about destroying a cottage industry in favor of big business which is what you want. You don't own outrage and disgust. And contrary to your claims you do not occupy the high ground on this. I know quite a few people in their 50s and 60s that dsagree with prop 19. Some smoke some grow some dont... We all want it legal, but not by setting a takeover scenario. You seem willing to accept whatever the govt wants. NOT ME. We have had quite enough shoved down our throats lately and I for one am protesting loudly as is the custom here. I think the Leno bill in concert with out 215 gets us everything we need.

You are right that only 80,000+ get busted for Cannabis in Calif for Cannabis, the highest of any state, but what does this mean to them? To the 10,000 that did not get a misdemeanor it is not just a $100 ticket, it can be much worse.
But even a misdemeanor will mean first of all no travel to Canada, no chance of getting a federal education loan, and a whole lot more that I won't even bother listing cause most of your minds are already made up, it is the loss of income, be honest.

As for the Leno bill, like the last 2 or 3 bills lets see it get pass the assembly floor, it will need luck. But even then it does not legalize recreational production and use like Prop 19 would.

"SB 1449 now moves on to the Assembly floor for a final vote. Similar decriminalization bills have passed the Senate three times in past years, only to be defeated in the Assembly. Sponsors are hopeful that the Assembly will change its mind this time, given the cost savings in the bill, the state's ongoing budget crisis, and the bill's support by the district attorneys and court system."

BTW we are not destroying a cottage industry, we are bringing Cannabis into the mainstream with competition and real world economics as well as Tax and Regulation to get the big boys on board, Big Government, Big Business, Big Agriculture, give them a piece of the pie and Cannabis will be legalized first in Calif, then the USA, then the World. And that is my goal.
Cannabis does not need to have special people growing it for special prices for special people to smoke. Let big Agriculture grow it outdoors and the prices will drop by 90%, as well as the energy use and carbon footprint will become normal again, instead of growing under lights because it is illegal and so profitable.
What is best for Cannabis is not what is best for Cannabis growers of the cottage industry ilk, they do not want real competition or lowered prices, period. But I know that real progress will be made for Cannabis in a legal recreational Cannabis industry, what we think of today as the very best is just the beginning, believe me.
And under Prop 19 industrial hemp is legal to grow, even Jack H would love that I bet.

-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Sam, I know your hearts in the right place but you are dealing with major criminals when your dealing with politicians and they are very slick. This would be my idea of a law that I would vote for:

"Marijuana has been used medicinally and religiously for thousands of years, henceforth Marijuana will not be considered a illicit drug in California nor will it be illegal to possess California grown Marijuana or grown by California citizens over 21 years of age. This being the will of the People, the State Legislature and all law enforcement agencies will do their utmost to comply with their wishes. Law enforcement officers shall be read the law by their superior officers at their first convenience but not later than one month after enactment. Disregard of the People’s wishes shall be cause for recall of any elected official."

Sam, 19 has to much wiggle room, they could sell your mother to the Liberian Slave Trade with that thing. It is written by those that want you to pay taxes on something that alleviates pain and brings laughter, why would you want politicians into something like that. Think of who you are 'trusting' to do the right thing.

As for trusting, I would never start by trusting someone willing to work with LEO and Prohibitionists to help defeat Prop 19, like the growers opposed to Prop 19 are doing. I don't mind paying taxes on Cannabis I buy, if I ever do... The same as beer, wine, and a whole lot of things I or my family buy every day, I want Cannabis normalized and brought into the mainstream, and as well to stop the arrests.

-SamS

 

[jump /injack]

Well the 800,000 is not in California and you know it... Why not just use the world numbers? It would be just as disengenuous. Here there are 70,000 tickets written at 100 bucks each, which we are trying to change to an infraction so that people wont get a misdemeanor for weed. That would be the Leno bill. I dont see you talking much about that... It is what we need, not tax and regulate. The other thing we dont need is the drama and the name calling. If you feel sick, you know how I feel about destroying a cottage industry in favor of big business which is what you want. You don't own outrage and disgust. And contrary to your claims you do not occupy the high ground on this. I know quite a few people in their 50s and 60s that dsagree with prop 19. Some smoke some grow some dont... We all want it legal, but not by setting a takeover scenario. You seem willing to accept whatever the govt wants. NOT ME. We have had quite enough shoved down our throats lately and I for one am protesting loudly as is the custom here. I think the Leno bill in concert with out 215 gets us everything we need.

Here is part of the Leno bill: "SB 1449, as amended, Leno. Marijuana: possession.
Existing law provides that, except as authorized by law, every
person who possesses not more than 28.5 grams of marijuana, other than concentrated cannabis, is guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be punished by a fine of not more than $100."

It is amending the punishments of having up to 28.5 grams of MJ in your possession. Here is the site: http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/sen/sb_1401-1450/sb_1449_bill_20100405_amended_sen_v98.html

This along with 215 gives Californians 95% of what is wanted and further erosion of the anti marijuana laws is a very good possibility. The People of California will have the sanest laws in the United States concerning MJ, maybe even the world and there are those that want this destroyed for the right to be taxed, to have 'legal' status for Oakland and Sacramento politicians to ruin you financially and to once more be able to jail you. If you start with the premise that the California legal system was gamed by 215 and they lost major amounts of money garnered by 'defense attorneys' and others in the legal business, then this new legislation starts to make sense. Californians have it pretty good right now and it will continue to get better with people like Leno in office. California has the most lenient STATE laws in the United States, you want to change them so you can be taxed and incarcerated? Unbelievable!

 

[GanjaAL]

Yea but your forgetting one major detail people are getting arrested for more than an oz on there person. That will not change with prop19. Why can you people not see that it will not keep people out of jail and with the relaxation and people thinking it is ok to carry as much weed as they want... the arrest rates are going to skyrocket.... do you think LE does not know this????

gee wiz people... wake up.

The highest arrest rate comes from possesion of more than an oz and is the leading cause for arrest in california... tell me in all your wisdom and knowledge how prop19 is going to change that when prop 19 only protects you for an oz or less?

If you have more than an oz on you it is 6mo in jail and 500.00 fine... prop 19 keeps that law intact.

 

[JJScorpio]

Here is part of the Leno bill: "SB 1449, as amended, Leno. Marijuana: possession.
Existing law provides that, except as authorized by law, every
person who possesses not more than 28.5 grams of marijuana, other than concentrated cannabis, is guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be punished by a fine of not more than $100."

It is amending the punishments of having up to 28.5 grams of MJ in your possession. Here is the site: http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/sen/sb_1401-1450/sb_1449_bill_20100405_amended_sen_v98.html

This along with 215 gives Californians 95% of what is wanted and further erosion of the anti marijuana laws is a very good possibility. The People of California will have the sanest laws in the United States concerning MJ, maybe even the world and there are those that want this destroyed for the right to be taxed, to have 'legal' status for Oakland and Sacramento politicians to ruin you financially and to once more be able to jail you. If you start with the premise that the California legal system was gamed by 215 and they lost major amounts of money garnered by 'defense attorneys' and others in the legal business, then this new legislation starts to make sense. Californians have it pretty good right now and it will continue to get better with people like Leno in office. California has the most lenient STATE laws in the United States, you want to change them so you can be taxed and incarcerated? Unbelievable!

So in your mind, you feel it's better to get an infration and fine then to make it legal? What are you, a cop? WTF is wrong with you?

And I'm not joking asking if you're a cop. Why else would you want to see someone get an infraction and fine?

 

[jump /injack]

http://www.canorml.org/prop/patientsguide.htm

Sam, you sound like you have never read Prop 215 or SB 420, the above is the official canorml web site that gives the Proposition and Senate Bill, between the two, this is the best in the United States and Canada. Notice how simple the wording is, how easy and understandable it reads, this simplicity made it impossible for the courts, district attorneys and the police agencies to get rid of it and the People won. Now we have something to consider that is not simple, its convoluted on purpose apparently [an old trick] and looks to many that it would do away with 215 and 420. You say that is not what it will do, Sam why didn't they make that VERY plain if that is what they meant. I don't trust politicians, pedophiles and Charlie Manson, they take your money, screw your kids and slit your throat; Sam why in the world would you trust such people, they have ruined California. We have went from the 7th largest economy in the World to pauper and 3rd world status because of politicians in Sacramento. Sam look in the mirror and say, "I'm going to trust politicians" and then think about what you've just said. Funny isn't it.

Here is a synopsis of the law. Text of Prop. 215
Compassionate Use Act of 1996
Health and Safety Code Section 11362.5

Sec. (1) a-b The people of the State of California hereby find and declare that the purposes of the Compassionate Use Act of 1996 are as follows:
(A) To ensure that seriously ill Californians have the right to obtain and use marijuana for medical purposes where the medical use is deemed appropriate and has been recommended by a physician who has determined that the person's health would benefit from the use of marijuana in the treatment of cancer, anorexia, AIDS, chronic pain, spasticity, glaucoma, arthritis, migraine, or any other illness for which marijuana provides relief.
(B) To ensure that patients and their primary caregivers who obtain and use marijuana for medical purposes upon the recommendation of a physician are not subject to criminal prosecution or sanction.

Full text at the above site.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

http://www.canorml.org/prop/patientsguide.htm

Sam, you sound like you have never read Prop 215 or SB 420, the above is the official canorml web site that gives the Proposition and Senate Bill, between the two, this is the best in the United States and Canada. Notice how simple the wording is, how easy and understandable it reads, this simplicity made it impossible for the courts, district attorneys and the police agencies to get rid of it and the People won. Now we have something to consider that is not simple, its convoluted on purpose apparently [an old trick] and looks to many that it would do away with 215 and 420. You say that is not what it will do, Sam why didn't they make that VERY plain if that is what they meant. I don't trust politicians, pedophiles and Charlie Manson, they take your money, screw your kids and slit your throat; Sam why in the world would you trust such people, they have ruined California. We have went from the 7th largest economy in the World to pauper and 3rd world status because of politicians in Sacramento. Sam look in the mirror and say, "I'm going to trust politicians" and then think about what you've just said. Funny isn't it.

Here is a synopsis of the law. Text of Prop. 215
Compassionate Use Act of 1996
Health and Safety Code Section 11362.5

Sec. (1) a-b The people of the State of California hereby find and declare that the purposes of the Compassionate Use Act of 1996 are as follows:
(A) To ensure that seriously ill Californians have the right to obtain and use marijuana for medical purposes where the medical use is deemed appropriate and has been recommended by a physician who has determined that the person's health would benefit from the use of marijuana in the treatment of cancer, anorexia, AIDS, chronic pain, spasticity, glaucoma, arthritis, migraine, or any other illness for which marijuana provides relief.
(B) To ensure that patients and their primary caregivers who obtain and use marijuana for medical purposes upon the recommendation of a physician are not subject to criminal prosecution or sanction.

Full text at the above site.

I have read the full text of 215 and 420 many times. Hell, I helped pass 215, I have known Dennis for years and years. It does not allow Cannabis to be Taxed and Regulated or sold for recreational use, or allow industrial hemp to be grown.
I want Cannabis to be mainstream, not just something you can get by finding a doctor to give you permission by paying him to do so.
I am so tired of people parroting Dennis with "all Cannabis use is Medical". I don't believe that and am offended I am forced to say I want Cannabis as medicine, if I want to get high recreationally legally. As well I want prices to be in line with production costs if Cannabis was grown outdoors by Agri-Biz in big fields. That will be at least 90% off the prices of today, where Cannabis is grown under lights indoors.
I understand why growers don't want to rock the boat, they feel that everything is great right now, and for them it is.
But I care much more about the 800,000+ Cannabis arrests in the USA every year then the economic well being of todays Cannabis growers. Cannabis will be much better off under legal Cannabis for recreational use. People will be able to do legal research, and Cannabis will be improved beyond your belief. As well industrial hemp can be grown.
If all you care about is the growers income, then I understand why you just might vote NO, if you care about Cannabis then vote YES on Prop 19.
As for politicians and if I trust them or not, hell no I don't, but that said what difference does it make? They are the same politicians that are in power today, and control 215 and 420, which you seem real happy with.
BTW if you think Prop 19 will destroy any rights given under 215 or 420 you need to re-read Prop 19, I know it is not as easy a read as 215, but you can do it if you try real hard.
Your fear is not real, and Cannabis deserves much better then to be grown under lights, for people that may or may not be sick, at a price 10-100 times what it should be.
Legalize, Tax and Regulate if you care about Cannabis and want it to be normalized and made mainstream.
If all you care is about profits for growers, then vote NO, and screw Cannabis ever being normalized, money is much more important.

To me there is no choice, Cannabis comes first,
vote YES on Prop 19.

-SamS

 

[Burt]

"and Cannabis will be improved beyond your belief "

this gives me wood all day long-bless you Sam!

 

[MoldyFrogToe]

I care much more about the 800,000+ Cannabis arrests in the USA every year then the economic well being of todays Cannabis growers.

+1

 

[Natagonnaworrie]

if you have been involved in this thread for a while when it was heated over here you will find this is the definition on irony.

it's titled 'Fucking Busted Hardcore' ...by Krunchbubble

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=183414

 

[vta]

if you have been involved in this thread for a while when it was heated over here you will find this is the definition on irony.

it's titled 'Fucking Busted Hardcore' ...by Krunchbubble

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=183414

Maybe ironic but he is a long standing member here that has helped out many many people advance their skill of growing. So while he might have a different view than us, he is still one of us and has giving back to this community. Whatever his political or personal views are, his world just got turned upside down and could use all the support and help he can get right now.

 

[Natagonnaworrie]

agreed. I have nothing against commercial growers, small-time growers or any growers. BUT it is true that when your sole motivation is for $ the law is never going to be on your side. - without them getting a cut

AND It is true that the growers against this very progressive proposition are largely (not all) protecting their own financial interests over the well being of the many responsible pot smokers with normal lives, jobs and families.

If you notice my post on his thread you will see that i am still very much hoping he steers as clear of any potential trouble as possible.

In this case someone with his skills (inarguable) would have been free from this matter (fast forward) had prop 19 passed and they had become employed at (for example) one of Oakland's massive pot ops. In this case, being legal would have helped out immensely. If not from Prop 19 at least its in the right direction.

I'm not for anyone going to jail over pot, don't misquote me.

 

[vta]

Natagonnaworrie...I do think your right....If 19 had been law...the smell of cannabis would not of warranted a search of his car.

 

[Chief Rbud]

unfortunately, yes its true.


(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, it is lawful and shall not be a public offense under California law for any person 21 years of age or older to:
(i) Personally possess, process, share, or transport not more than one ounce of cannabis, solely for that individual’s personal consumption, and not for sale.
(ii) Cultivate, on private property by the owner, lawful occupant, or other lawful resident or guest of the private property owner or lawful occupant, cannabis plants for personal consumption only, in an area of not more than twenty-five square feet per private residence or, in the absence of any residence, the parcel. Cultivation on leased or rented property may be subject to approval from the owner of the property. Provided that, nothing in this section shall permit unlawful or unlicensed cultivation of cannabis on any public lands.
(iii) Possess on the premises where grown the living and harvested plants and results of any harvest and processing of plants lawfully cultivated pursuant to section 11300(a)(ii), for personal consumption.

actually your wrong, you need to reread what you quoted and read the other sections of the bill, the 1 ounce limit is only in public. at home where the grow is you can keep whatever you harvest from the 5x5 area, unlimited amounts.

 

[ReelBusy1]

actually your wrong, you need to reread what you quoted and read the other sections of the bill, the 1 ounce limit is only in public. at home where the grow is you can keep whatever you harvest from the 5x5 area, unlimited amounts.

Slavery in the United States was bad and we abolished after it tore the country apart and cost a lost of innocent lives.

After slavery it wasn't perfect.
We had Jim Crow and segregation and a lot of other imperfect bad stuff until the Civil Rights Act in the 1960's.

Racial equality is still not achieved or perfectly Utopian but it all started with that first step that abolished slavery by Abe Lincoln.

Prop 19 is the first step in freeing the slaves of Marijuana Prohibition in the US....

This is not a question of 5x5 grow areas etc.

It is about politics.

Prohibition is a failed public policy period.

If you grow weed and sell it and are scared of change:too f**king bad.

So were the makers of buggywhips that didn't see the writing on the wall when the automobile was invented. They are all gone now. Adapt to the future.
Embrace it because if you don't the alternative is worse.

Victory for the REAL opponents of Marijuana will ride a Prop 19 loss to try to repeal Prop 215 and SB420.
Victory means EVERYTHING to them but it's just a first step for us.

If you think voting for the status quo is a NO vote you are wrong.
A NO vote is a step backwards.

Remember the full on raids of Hydro stores and their databases transactions in the old days?
You want that s**t again?

This is about civil rights and there are only heroes and cowards in this fight.
We know who is who because of threads like this.

Vote YES.
The future is now and the power is in our hands to send Washington DC and the world a loud message that we are not going to be their second class citizens anymore.

Peace to all,
Mother Chucker

 

[Yes4Prop215]

So in your mind, you feel it's better to get an infration and fine then to make it legal? What are you, a cop? WTF is wrong with you?

And I'm not joking asking if you're a cop. Why else would you want to see someone get an infraction and fine?

a ticket and a fine is a much better alternative to what prop 19 will bring. it ups the ante to something like 6 months in jail for possession and giving it to underage. (correct if im wrong)

19 will NOT stop arrests plain and simple..if anything i see more arrests coming from this.

take for example your grower under 215...whos running 1-2 bedrooms and 50 plants. under 215 hes pretty safe from prosecution because he can say its for personal use. (yall keep saying 215 is safe...but thats not 100%)

under 19 hes facing jailtime because hes over the limits nad growing without a permit and not paying taxes...a whole slew of charges.

maybe im fear mongering..but i just dont see any benefits WE DONT ALREADY HAVE.

asides from it being labeled "legal" and the feel goodyness of that...people still going to jail...stricter possession limits, tax and regulate..huge warehouses pumping out buds for dirt cheap...100,000 growers going out of business and many satellite businesses going under when the growers dont have their profits. yeah hydro store sales might surge but once the average joe grows a harvest or two he will probbaly give up and just buy richard lees weed.

 

[Yes4Prop215]

and i dont understand the whole.."if cali legalizes the rest of the country will jump on board" argument.

cali semi legalized weed more than ten years ago with prop 215....by your claims that should mean that most states should have medical marijuana laws..but only 13 out of 50 do.

what makes yall think conservatives in alabama and arkansas will vote for legalization because a bunch of liberal hippy democrats in calfornia did it? yall are dreaming the impossible. throwing the counterculture under the bus so that government and big business can take over, just so some people dont get tickets for possession. weak trade-off....i cant even get a ticket for possession right now with my 215 card....so this law only affects me negatively. my harvests will sell for shit, all the money i pumped into my grow will be hard to recover, no more profits, facing the same jail time if not more, for less profit.

100,000 growers people...probably more will be forced to re-enter an already terrible workforce and economy. just to save 70,000 smokers from getting tickets? doesnt make sense..

 

[opt1c]

prop 19 is just a money/power grab by the oaksterdam folks... most of the supporters of the measure financially are probably supporters of their new grow warehouses as well... non profit with a return on investment go figure... no different than a host of propositions pg&e has tried to pull off... let them pull the wool over your eyes and think you're part of some revolution if you want; this is just a calculated and timed power grab veiled under the guise of legalization crafted in a way as to fool people such as yourselves into voting for this flawed self-serving piece of legislation

 

[gaiusmarius]

thing is we are between a rock and a hard place now, by not supporting this bill we really send out the wrong message, as 99% of people think this thing is a pretty clear cut legalization. by voting no, you will end up empowering the cannabis opposition. i also have my doubts about some of the rosy interpretations of this bill i have seen and read, but at this point all we can do is get this passed, then take up the fight to open the market and take on what ever other problems show up. the fact that the bill says the revenue will be spent on enforcing this law means, at least some of those very optimistic views on this bill will end up being dead wrong.

thats what i don't like either Yes4Prop215, not all growers will have a level playing field, the risk goes down only for the licensed, but the price will go down for all, this is what will make it near impossible to compete, but specially it will not be worth competing, as the risk will be too big compared to the profit. still i'm sure folks will just spread their 25sf gardens to different locations. i hear a lot of coffee shop cannabis in Holland is getting grown in smaller grow spaces nowadays too, in order to lower and spread the risk. although the big grows are still doing a large part of the work. anyway as the wording of this thing can no longer be changed and perceptions about it are also set, we just have to bite the bullet and get it passed.

 

[Yes4Prop215]

^revenue is spent on enforcing the law? wow thats total horseshit...the revenue is supposed to be going back into government to help pay for schools and shit.

the government is so Fing screwed up. over spending on bullshit then when they run out of money find something new to tax. this is all about money for them, not about legalization. its technically NOT even legal because of the oppressive limits.

after they waste all the tax money from 19 on pensions for overpaid cops and politicians...they will be after something new to tax...lets tax heroin and meth now too!

i know that shooting down this bill sends the wrong message, but theres gotta be an alternative. we are stuck between a rock for sure....voting no on this bill kills the overall cannabis movement, but voting yes kills growers and the counterculture and gives our beloved Mary into the hands of greedy corporations and government for rape!

wtf man..i almost dont even want to vote on this shit at all...i cant vote yes because i just see richard lees greedy evil grin and the fat tobacoo cats licking their chops.