Growers are just saying NO to pot legalization

[Anti]

This is also just a scare tactic coming from the "yes" side. A scare tactic I hear a lot assuming we will be going back into the dark ages of cannabis if this bill doesn't pass.

Sometimes the truth is scary. Doesn't mean it's a scare tactic to mention it.


Is it a scare tactic when I mention to you that you're approaching a brick wall at a speed in excess of 60 mph? Should I just sit quietly in the passenger seat and hope you have the sense to apply the brakes before it is too late? Or should I nudge you and say, "Hey, maybe try to avoid the wall over there!"

 

[ReelBusy1]

If you think a no vote is for the status quo you are deluded.

The far right is working hard to defeat this so they can roll back all this "medical marijuana bullshit".

Either we are all moving forward or prepare to move backwards.

 

[Lazyman]

Am I the only one who thinks cops will ignore Prop19 protections like they currently ignore 215 protections? Everyone I know who has been busted had at least 1 medical rec and still had to get arrested, bail, go to court, plea out, etc. Why would 19 be any different? Cops ignoring the laws = cops ignoring the laws.

 

[Lazyman]

Ok and I have to say this too, since as commercial growers we get called greedy for wanting to protect our jobs and livelihoods:

Will seed breeders see any benefits to legalization efforts? I imagine so, what with increased availability and sales to new customers.

So if our opinions are tainted by the money we stand to lose, are theirs not tainted by the money they stand to gain?

If so, then posts by anyone with a financial interest in this should be taken with a grain of salt, including my own.

That is all.

 

[krunchbubble]

Am I the only one who thinks cops will ignore Prop19 protections like they currently ignore 215 protections? Everyone I know who has been busted had at least 1 medical rec and still had to get arrested, bail, go to court, plea out, etc. Why would 19 be any different? Cops ignoring the laws = cops ignoring the laws.

they sure do ignore the law, look what happened to me recently. 100% legal according the the state of california, approved for a collective and still raided.....

they straight up said they dont give a shit about prop 215 patients, that kind of mentality will most likely roll over to prop 19 if it passes, imvho of course....

 

[Anti]

So if our opinions are tainted by the money we stand to lose, are theirs not tainted by the money they stand to gain?

If so, then posts by anyone with a financial interest in this should be taken with a grain of salt, including my own.

Posts by anyone anywhere on any topic should be examined for truth and logic and then filtered through each reader's own experience in order to determine a reasonable conclusion for oneself.

I don't make a nickel off my grows now and I don't intend to start slanging it if this passes.

I sure hope it does.

 

[kmk420kali]

I work for a Collective, and I also sling on the side (From my home grow)-- I only sell to my friends, and I have tried to get some of them set up for growing their own...however...ppl are inherently lazy...and many do not wish to grow, they are just fine with buying it-- That is the reason that this does not bother me, as far as $$ goes...even if it passes, I believe it will be business as usual--
The more this gets talked about, and I see different takes on some of these points, the more comfortable I am getting about it--
So keep it coming ya'll...and have some patience with those who have questions, or misconceptions...or just don't agree with this Prop...because not being 100% down for this, does NOT mean, beyond a shadow of a doubt...that it is purely greed motivated--

 

[Smoke Buddy]

This thread is a good illustration of the old saying: "All politics are local".

Im pretty sure this will be my last time posting in this thread. Its like banging ones head against a wall.

If I lived somewhere other than California and I was under some sort of cannabis oppression I would feel the same as most all the non-Californians here. However, the spin here making it as though we are being busted right and left is just soooo wrong.
Its "practically" legal now for anyone wise enough to take advantage of the medical recomendation. To trade that for a destruction of the mom and pop boutique style grows in favor of some rich guys so they can get richer and screw the little guy is a BAD idea. Anyhow, in my little world here in norcal, I know growers voting yes and I know growers voting no. And the reasons are the same as people give here on IC.
The thing that is in the conversation in norcal that is dismissed at IC is the many thousands of people depending on cannabis to hold onto their lives. There are no jobs here for professionals with degrees or not. Too many looking. Its a fuking joke. To me those people are way more important than having the law say oh we are now legal which of course would be a lie. I dont call what this law would do making cannabis legal. I agree it will help people with no recomendation, growing massive amounts making lots of cash who have lbs of weed sitting in their house... should we really worry about them. Most people I know sell a qp at a time and are not greedy or rich. Their legal grows yield from 1 - 2.5 lbs every 10 weeks or so. So on average they are getting 225/oz at the clubs or not. Do the math. 3200/lb for 10 weeks work. If you are good and get 2 lbs you have 6400 for 2.5 months living. An average house mortgage payment here would be somewhere around 1700-2000/mo. If its 1700 x 2.5 months = 4250 leaving 2150 for everything else for nearly 3 months living. With the price of electricity here and food etc that wont leave anything. If you had a great carreer, a long held property that was paid for with hard earned legal money and got laid off a couple years ago and went through your savings you know it takes every bit of that 1-2 lbs very 2.5 months just to survive here. The few growers I know that are voting yes coincidentally are financially flush.. their wife has a good job or they have an inheritance etc.. But even they know the ones voting NO are not greedy, maybe selfish but nothing wrong with that in the context of keeping from becoming homeless. I see alot of you write this off and you are missing a major component of the issue. The whole idea that the No voters are greedy is wrong, they are just getting by in almost all cases because they are trying to stay close to their legal amount so there are already many LEGAL grows here. MANY LEGAL GROWS..

Over and out wish you all the best

 

[medmaker420]

Voting either way sends the wrong message imo... Just abstain from voting on prop 19. If prop 19 laid out a clear, fair or level playing field for those that wished to go commercial, id probably vote for it. But since there won't be a level playing field, or no field at all depending on where you live. I will probably just not vote for prop 19, or just not vote. Not like my vote means anything anyway.

Level playing field?

That really isn't how business is supposed to be ran. There will always be someone with a leg up on others but doesn't mean that the small business man/woman can't survive and succeed IF they bust their butts to make it happen.

Money makes the world go round and launching businesses MUCH easier. I am voting yes on the bill simply because we can help IMPROVE the bill as time goes on versus voting no and trying to get a bill that is better suited to our needs to even be HEARD on the floor to be voted on.

Imagine if everyone voted no nonstop for prop 215 and sb 420 simply because it wasn't EXACTLY what we wanted? We can and have the ability to improve or ammend bills with our voice and vote BUT if it never gets heard and moved to vote then NOTHING can or could have happened.

Our med scene isn't exactly how I envisioned it BUT I am 100% happier with our current situation then where we were only 10 years ago.

Progress is coming but the issue will be the government OVERcontrol that seems to come with ANYTHING where decent money can be made.

I would like to see it out of the commercial sector and strictly in the med scene if possible BUT understand that this plant that we enjoy isn't simply for those who can PROVE medical reasons but rather because they are "of age" (which apparently is dictated by our government what age that is) and have the right (given RIGHTS to put something in our OWN body, how sad is that...) to do with their bodies as they please (well not exactly as we please since we are TOLD IF we can...)

If we want the perfect bill then there is an entire government overhaul that would need to happen because you can't simply have this ONE commercial product to be marketed completely opposite of every other business in our country.

I look at it as the lesser of two evils as far as this bill goes versus NOT having it on file. We can adapt to the bill if needed versus having to bust our ass to try and get something similar or BETTER to pass since they would be able to state that they already gave the citizens the ability to choose and we decided NO!

I say vote yes! and we can fix and tweak things after the fact because if we get this going and then all states start adapting it, things will be much easier to push a federal or individual state bills for complete legalization, deregulation or a hybrid bill that will work.

In the end, each state should have the ability to yes/no anything versus the overall federal government trying to tell EVERY state what they can or can't do. State rights first then we let federal know what we dediced on and they SHOULD HAVE TO abide by that.

Limited Government
Maximum city,state citizen rights

As far as big business taking over the mom and pop grows, that is all dependant on many things. It is up to the buyer/seller as to what goes on and if you are successful now and people like your meds WHY would they go anywhere else. Sales in my head is like a relationship. If you have a great product, great customer service and solid competitive prices then why would they go elsewhere UNLESS they want mersh and don't care.

With all business either succeed or fail but without any actual competition all you are doing is cherry picking easy sales. Anyone can be successful selling water in the desert IF no other water vendors were there BUT should you ban the sales of water simply because YOU wouldn't be able to get ALL of those sales?

 

[vta]

I work for a Collective, and I also sling on the side (From my home grow)-- I only sell to my friends, and I have tried to get some of them set up for growing their own...however...ppl are inherently lazy...and many do not wish to grow, they are just fine with buying it-- That is the reason that this does not bother me, as far as $$ goes...even if it passes, I believe it will be business as usual--
The more this gets talked about, and I see different takes on some of these points, the more comfortable I am getting about it--
So keep it coming ya'll...and have some patience with those who have questions, or misconceptions...or just don't agree with this Prop...because not being 100% down for this, does NOT mean, beyond a shadow of a doubt...that it is purely greed motivated--

I liked your WHOLE post but the bolded part stood out to me. Gave me inspiration for this rant... If you grow good cannabis...you will still be able to sell. There is no way the prices are going to drop to the floor. At least not for a long, long time. Right now...this minute...just about everyone supplying the market is underground. That means that they don't pay taxes...they are not a legit business. Now these people have a price....what makes makes people think they are willing to drop it? Richard Lee? Who? gimme a break. People need to check themselves if they think 4 warehouses in Beautiful Oakland are going to do anything to the overall market. Not even a dent. There are probably a hundred warehouses just in the Los Angeles vicinity.

Also...when 19 passes, there will be a flood of 'pot brokers' coming here...the export biz will crank up.

 

[jump /injack]

This thread is a good illustration of the old saying: "All politics are local".

Im pretty sure this will be my last time posting in this thread. Its like banging ones head against a wall.

If I lived somewhere other than California and I was under some sort of cannabis oppression I would feel the same as most all the non-Californians here. However, the spin here making it as though we are being busted right and left is just soooo wrong.
Its "practically" legal now for anyone wise enough to take advantage of the medical recomendation. To trade that for a destruction of the mom and pop boutique style grows in favor of some rich guys so they can get richer and screw the little guy is a BAD idea. Anyhow, in my little world here in norcal, I know growers voting yes and I know growers voting no. And the reasons are the same as people give here on IC.
The thing that is in the conversation in norcal that is dismissed at IC is the many thousands of people depending on cannabis to hold onto their lives. There are no jobs here for professionals with degrees or not. Too many looking. Its a fuking joke. To me those people are way more important than having the law say oh we are now legal which of course would be a lie. I dont call what this law would do making cannabis legal. I agree it will help people with no recomendation, growing massive amounts making lots of cash who have lbs of weed sitting in their house... should we really worry about them. Most people I know sell a qp at a time and are not greedy or rich. Their legal grows yield from 1 - 2.5 lbs every 10 weeks or so. So on average they are getting 225/oz at the clubs or not. Do the math. 3200/lb for 10 weeks work. If you are good and get 2 lbs you have 6400 for 2.5 months living. An average house mortgage payment here would be somewhere around 1700-2000/mo. If its 1700 x 2.5 months = 4250 leaving 2150 for everything else for nearly 3 months living. With the price of electricity here and food etc that wont leave anything. If you had a great carreer, a long held property that was paid for with hard earned legal money and got laid off a couple years ago and went through your savings you know it takes every bit of that 1-2 lbs very 2.5 months just to survive here. The few growers I know that are voting yes coincidentally are financially flush.. their wife has a good job or they have an inheritance etc.. But even they know the ones voting NO are not greedy, maybe selfish but nothing wrong with that in the context of keeping from becoming homeless. I see alot of you write this off and you are missing a major component of the issue. The whole idea that the No voters are greedy is wrong, they are just getting by in almost all cases because they are trying to stay close to their legal amount so there are already many LEGAL grows here. MANY LEGAL GROWS..

Over and out wish you all the best

Lots of good pro's and con's on this site and they all should be taken into consideration before voting on this. Here is one more thing to take into consideration, if 19 passes and you decide to take advantage of going straight and paying taxes, you have to realize that this is just for California, right? So you go down and get your licence and pay the amount necessary and start growing. Lets say that you do very well and are making good money and you pay your taxes on that amount made minus the expenses and all the rest, you sign the Federal Tax form attesting to everything being correct and pay the amount due to the Treasury. A couple of months later your audited and the investigators come in and you have prove to their satisfaction that your not lieing, which you do. The next people you could be talking to is from another agency called the DEA and they inform you they have a copy of your tax files where you have signed under penalty of perjury that you have broken the law concerning a Class 1 Substance: [http://www.justice.gov/dea/pubs/scheduling.html

Personally I don't know anyone who has thought about this will sign documents like that. They can extrapolate just as well as anyone with a calculator and god forbid they can prove you had to have been growing over 100 plants. Might not happen but sometimes your tail light is out and you don't know it. What good is 19 at that point?

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

If you think a no vote is for the status quo you are deluded.

The far right is working hard to defeat this so they can roll back all this "medical marijuana bullshit".

Either we are all moving forward or prepare to move backwards.

Not true at all. I know alot of republicans who are in favor of 19... and were talking the Glenn beck, rush limbaugh ultra right wing republicans...

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

they sure do ignore the law, look what happened to me recently. 100% legal according the the state of california, approved for a collective and still raided.....

they straight up said they dont give a shit about prop 215 patients, that kind of mentality will most likely roll over to prop 19 if it passes, imvho of course....

You know that 215 does not prevent arrests, it is a defense to use in court after arrest, and you know that, don't you?
As long as it is the State or County, or City that takes you to court you should win, if it is the Feds that take you to court, then you better have a damn good lawyer, and be ready to do some time.
That is why I have spent my life trying to get things changed, it is not right they can screw with Cannabis users and ignore the laws if they feel like it, the police have done this for years and will keep doing so until they are not allowed to any more. 215 helps, but does not prevent arrests if the cops you deal with hate Cannabis and Cannabis users. That is why 80,000+ people had legal problems with Cannabis in California last year, and will every year until something changes.

-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

This thread is a good illustration of the old saying: "All politics are local".

Im pretty sure this will be my last time posting in this thread. Its like banging ones head against a wall.

If I lived somewhere other than California and I was under some sort of cannabis oppression I would feel the same as most all the non-Californians here. However, the spin here making it as though we are being busted right and left is just soooo wrong.
Its "practically" legal now for anyone wise enough to take advantage of the medical recomendation. To trade that for a destruction of the mom and pop boutique style grows in favor of some rich guys so they can get richer and screw the little guy is a BAD idea. Anyhow, in my little world here in norcal, I know growers voting yes and I know growers voting no. And the reasons are the same as people give here on IC.
The thing that is in the conversation in norcal that is dismissed at IC is the many thousands of people depending on cannabis to hold onto their lives. There are no jobs here for professionals with degrees or not. Too many looking. Its a fuking joke. To me those people are way more important than having the law say oh we are now legal which of course would be a lie. I dont call what this law would do making cannabis legal. I agree it will help people with no recomendation, growing massive amounts making lots of cash who have lbs of weed sitting in their house... should we really worry about them. Most people I know sell a qp at a time and are not greedy or rich. Their legal grows yield from 1 - 2.5 lbs every 10 weeks or so. So on average they are getting 225/oz at the clubs or not. Do the math. 3200/lb for 10 weeks work. If you are good and get 2 lbs you have 6400 for 2.5 months living. An average house mortgage payment here would be somewhere around 1700-2000/mo. If its 1700 x 2.5 months = 4250 leaving 2150 for everything else for nearly 3 months living. With the price of electricity here and food etc that wont leave anything. If you had a great carreer, a long held property that was paid for with hard earned legal money and got laid off a couple years ago and went through your savings you know it takes every bit of that 1-2 lbs very 2.5 months just to survive here. The few growers I know that are voting yes coincidentally are financially flush.. their wife has a good job or they have an inheritance etc.. But even they know the ones voting NO are not greedy, maybe selfish but nothing wrong with that in the context of keeping from becoming homeless. I see alot of you write this off and you are missing a major component of the issue. The whole idea that the No voters are greedy is wrong, they are just getting by in almost all cases because they are trying to stay close to their legal amount so there are already many LEGAL grows here. MANY LEGAL GROWS..

Over and out wish you all the best

What do you think is better for Cannabis?
To be taxed and Regulated and Legal for Recreational and Industrial use? As well as research.
Or kept illegal except for medical use?
And I mean just better for "Cannabis".......

Forget the growers for just one moment, they are here today and maybe gone tomorrow, Cannabis is forever. Forget if you think NO growers are being greedy.
Growers needs pale in my book compared to what is best for Cannabis.
I love Cannabis with or without growers being involved, my love is for Cannabis and all its wonders, nothing more. I am not trying to dis growers, I am one, my best friends are growers, even my family.....
But to me what is best for Cannabis comes first, growers needs are second, lets be honest. At least to me and many I know and love.
I understand the fears growers have, but if they truly love Cannabis they need to do what is best for Cannabis.
I say a vote YES on Prop 19 will be better for Cannabis then a NO vote, anyone disagree?

-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

California's 1-3 million smokers consume an estimated 1-3 million pounds a year.
A acre can produce 1-3 thousand pounds outdoors.
So a lousy 1,000 acres of Cannabis can maybe supply the whole state.
Make it 10 times as much and you supply the nation.
California has almost 500,000 acres of wine grapes planted. 500 million gallon of wine.
And you think that if Prop 19 passes prices will not fall?
What have you been smoking? I want some....

Of course Hashish production takes 10 times or 100 times as much acreage but the resulting product, water hash or dry sifted hash is also 3 or 4 times the potency of buds.

Any way you can see that enough Cannabis can be grown to flood all California, the USA, then Canada, Mexico, and Jamaica and Belize and Columbia as well.
America produces food cheaper then the rest of the world, Cannabis will be the same story, and once legal farmers have the right clones to use in their local areas, areas which allow the plants to fully finish without cold or wet before harvest, the quality will be as good or better then todays boutique indoor under lights Cannabis, as well as 90%+ cheaper.
If you think otherwise you are just fooling your self...

-SamS

 

[grapeman]

California's 1-3 million smokers consume an estimated 1-3 million pounds a year.
A acre can produce 1-3 thousand pounds outdoors.
So a lousy 1,000 acres of Cannabis can maybe supply the whole state.
Make it 10 times as much and you supply the nation.
California has almost 500,000 acres of wine grapes planted. 500 million gallon of wine.
And you think that if Prop 19 passes prices will not fall?
What have you been smoking? I want some....

Of course Hashish production takes 10 times or 100 times as much acreage but the resulting product, water hash or dry sifted hash is also 3 or 4 times the potency of buds.

Any way you can see that enough Cannabis can be grown to flood all California, the USA, then Canada, Mexico, and Jamaica and Belize and Columbia as well.
America produces food cheaper then the rest of the world, Cannabis will be the same story, and once legal farmers have the right clones to use in their local areas, areas which allow the plants to fully finish without cold or wet before harvest, the quality will be as good or better then todays boutique indoor under lights Cannabis, as well as 90%+ cheaper.
If you think otherwise you are just fooling your self...

-SamS

The acres you cited for grapes are a bit misleading as much of our product in the grape business is exported. I doubt there will be much of an export market for this product in the near future.

 

[BigBudBill]

What do you think is better for Cannabis?
To be taxed and Regulated and Legal for Recreational and Industrial use? As well as research.
Or kept illegal except for medical use?
And I mean just better for "Cannabis".......

Forget the growers for just one moment, they are here today and maybe gone tomorrow, Cannabis is forever. Forget if you think NO growers are being greedy.
Growers needs pale in my book compared to what is best for Cannabis.
I love Cannabis with or without growers being involved, my love is for Cannabis and all its wonders, nothing more. I am not trying to dis growers, I am one, my best friends are growers, even my family.....
But to me what is best for Cannabis comes first, growers needs are second, lets be honest. At least to me and many I know and love.
I understand the fears growers have, but if they truly love Cannabis they need to do what is best for Cannabis.
I say a vote YES on Prop 19 will be better for Cannabis then a NO vote, anyone disagree?

-SamS

Much love Sam. The relationship you(we) have with Cannabis is symbiotic and the most awesome example of it IMO. Cannabis has proliferated all 7 continents through the human vector. Its deep physiological relationship with us is spectacular. I love that you expressed it the way you did. It truly describes the bigger picture. Let's do what's right for Cannabis, because, in the end, THAT is what is right for US.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

q

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

The acres you cited for grapes are a bit misleading as much of our product in the grape business is exported. I doubt there will be much of an export market for this product in the near future.

You are correct, that wine is exported, about 100 millions gallons (20%) outside the USA, but if California Cannabis is produced cheap enough then it will end up everywhere, the basic law of Cannabis Osmosis will ensure this.

-SamS

 

[slimjoint]

I dont think prop 19 will benefit growers at all. unless you want to cut down your cultivation, you will still have a limit, and many of growers surpass whats legal.
So in all reality this law just helps recreational users who dont grow.
you think they wont arrest you if they find out you got a few pounds in your possession?