Tom Hill making me do research again..

[Microbeman]

Definitely flush.

I found the best way is to stick the container in the sink and just run the tap through the media until you can see it washing away from the roots and see worms and bugs (yeeuuwww) washing down the drain. Then you should pull the plant up from the container with roots dangling and drop it into a boiling pot of water. That is the perfect way to get any of those nasty unused organic nutrients, the heck out of there. Growing outside in garden beds? No problem; just get one of those power wash attachments and spray right on the soil until you see it flowing away in rivulets and the roots become exposed. Don't worry about your soil for next year because you hafto buy some new stuff from the grow shop anyway so you can get that special dialed-in thing happening. And those beneficial microorganisms? Everybody knows you just add those along with that mycorrhizae stuff. Right?

I mean that's what they do in Afghanistan and India and all that isn't it? :jawdrop:

 

[catman]

I never want to smoke your pot or smoke with you. I mean NEVER. What a crock. The stupid white ash theory raises it's head again. You wasted so much getting those white ashes. Congrats you sacrificed yield and potency for taste and smoothness.

If you stop feeding early of course you sacrifice yield and potency, but that doesn't mean you can't flush after it is nearly ripe. Most people around here are not running out of buds to smoke because of low yield and potency so why is it so wrong to improve two other qualities of the smoking experience? If you didn't have any herb you wouldn't smoke his shit? Good grief ya fuckin grouch.

 

[dank.frank]

There's something a bit different about the seabird guano. Anyone I know that's added SBG to their program even when already using kelp meal or seaweed products like Maxicrop notice a difference. For sure those other things help though.

Seabird guanos are NATURALLY a small pellet vs. simply being ground into a powder. Because of this they are a bit more of a time release provider than other guanos would be. They also add to and increase the porosity of the soil much in the same manner EWC would, simply because of their natural shape...

I think this is one of the biggest differences in why a bit of SBG does the garden good and varies in its behavior over other guanos...apart from the obvious difference in NPK...

I have found that kelp meal is a mandatory additive. Any time I have ever gotten an odd taste I THINK was b/c of it...was only if my medium was staying wet/damp for too long and not drying out properly....



dank.Frank

 

[ocean_grown]

Oh man, that was a good laugh. I guess the word flush if pretty controversial around here? I just think of it as that period between the last feed and harvest where all they get is water and the leaves become all light and crackly.. I guess I was just looking for clarification on TH's post cause it kinda made me rethink my mix, but it would seem he was mostly talking about the mushroom compost.

 

[Travieso]

Flush the last 10 days!

 

[Yankee Grower]

Definitely flush.

So does Tom Hill 'flush' or not and what is his definition of flushing?

 

[CannaExists]

Definitely flush.

I found the best way is to stick the container in the sink and just run the tap through the media until you can see it washing away from the roots and see worms and bugs (yeeuuwww) washing down the drain. Then you should pull the plant up from the container with roots dangling and drop it into a boiling pot of water. That is the perfect way to get any of those nasty unused organic nutrients, the heck out of there. Growing outside in garden beds? No problem; just get one of those power wash attachments and spray right on the soil until you see it flowing away in rivulets and the roots become exposed. Don't worry about your soil for next year because you hafto buy some new stuff from the grow shop anyway so you can get that special dialed-in thing happening. And those beneficial microorganisms? Everybody knows you just add those along with that mycorrhizae stuff. Right?

I mean that's what they do in Afghanistan and India and all that isn't it? :jawdrop:

So how high is you?

 

[xmobotx]

And those beneficial microorganisms? Everybody knows you just add those along with that mycorrhizae stuff. Right?

the "micro-zay?"

 

[guest2012y]

Definitely flush.

I found the best way is to stick the container in the sink and just run the tap through the media until you can see it washing away from the roots and see worms and bugs (yeeuuwww) washing down the drain. Then you should pull the plant up from the container with roots dangling and drop it into a boiling pot of water. That is the perfect way to get any of those nasty unused organic nutrients, the heck out of there. Growing outside in garden beds? No problem; just get one of those power wash attachments and spray right on the soil until you see it flowing away in rivulets and the roots become exposed. Don't worry about your soil for next year because you hafto buy some new stuff from the grow shop anyway so you can get that special dialed-in thing happening. And those beneficial microorganisms? Everybody knows you just add those along with that mycorrhizae stuff. Right?

I mean that's what they do in Afghanistan and India and all that isn't it? :jawdrop:

Wow...I was just pulling them out of the pots and sticking them in the toilet and repeatedly "flushing". I had no idea that's how the pro's do it in India! Thanx MM

 

[Yankee Grower]

Does Tom Hill flush or not and how does he define flushing? Can't remember him talking about how he finishes up plants but will be interesting to see.

Maybe he'll cover that late in the season in this thread:
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=159846

 

[jdkronyk101]

flushing is a controversy....really?

flushing is a controversy....really?

o.g.
sounds like you are flushing technically just not necessarily doing it intentionally or buying a product for that which is actually unnecessary.
the salts tom refers to com from many sources.i dont know tom personally, but given his location id figure hers got pretty clean water. thats not the case for everyone. i have a friend in southern california who is a hydro grower, and his tap water starts at around 630ppm. thats pretty salty. many fertilizers have salt in them. fish emulsion , seabird, and any good hoaglin salt formula, as well.
the plants thrive on the water, which when drank leaves behind in the roots only salt. herein lies the first reason to flush once in a while. as well as washing out unused residues and such. tom also swears by the na meter. this is measuring the natural amount of salt already in the mix. thats why he says to use it on new soil products and from batch to batch, as the manufacturers product can change from time to time. sometimes in the rush to get more soil out to the demand the manufacturers will rush the composting process, or better yet skip it all together by adding a fresh unaged mushroom compost and ship it out in a rush to fill orders when it needs to age properly this is what he was mainly referring to.
that makes for an extra salty product. which can burn and kill right away anything you plant into it. but ask him if he flushes at the finish? lemme know what he says..
most of these guys here are flushing anyways even if they dont mean to. just organics and water with just water for the last three weeks. now there is no need to bash me over this(not blaming you), this is just science. its an ego thing here on this board that everyone wants to prove someone else wrong in/on a public forum. im just trying to help out, as well as tom. tom hill has more experience than all the naysayers above combined.the white ash thing is true. it burns better, smoother ,and keeps over time alot better.
consider the med state thing here in ca. there are co-operatives who go thru more herb than any of these folks here have ever seen in their lifetime. ,eccept the club owners in the dam , and they see that much herb in a week. this is what they look for , and the reason isnt because its some fairytale, its because the markets demand it.
now again as i mentioned in my previous post there are many organic situations that naturally flush and therefore in these cases a "flush" isnt necessary.but its actually occurring. regardless if they want to admit it.
and for the naysayers, run your full strength flowering formula, organic, fish based, guano based , whatever till the day of flower,(not compost teas, or enzymes as these all aid in flushing) and you will never win the cup...period.
now as was stated shortly after my previous post someone up there doesnt flush cause he looses yield.to me imo this is what seperates growers from gurus. the guru always started and focused on quality first. mastering quantity later.
a growers only concern is yield , yield , yield. nothing more so long as the guy with the money takes it.
this is just an opinion of mine, one can deffinately go the other way and become a guru. but a true guru's first concern is quality.
regardless of how he/she gets to that process.
ohh and on potency... thats a total farce. flushing in no way degrades your potency....lol i gotta laugh at that one.
i hope this gives a little insight into the salt that tom hill was referring to. an on that finnishing flush ,again do a side by side full strength till harvest v.s. properly flushed at least two weeks of pure water, and let me know what you honestly think after a three week cure.
ive seen it done over a hundred different times, with almost as many strains, im pretty convinced you'll come to the same conclusion.

Oh man, that was a good laugh. I guess the word flush if pretty controversial around here? I just think of it as that period between the last feed and harvest where all they get is water and the leaves become all light and crackly.. I guess I was just looking for clarification on TH's post cause it kinda made me rethink my mix, but it would seem he was mostly talking about the mushroom compost.

 

[jdkronyk101]

in this situation your herb will taste and burn stellar. agreed!
as its properly flushed...lol.
there will still be a bit of salt in the medium but nothing to be worried about. when re-using your soil say in beds that dont drain, and dirt/medium not bieng cycled out, flushing becomes essential.but many organic recipes dont allow a build up of salts so you wont see any problem in just one run. ive experimented with reusing the soil in 10gal pots. the record was 12 times till we gave up and just changed the dirt for shits and giggles. flushing was essential for this to work correctly. we used alot of compost teas as well almost every other watering.
i have a friend who bought somas book and built the beds planning to reuse his soil, but he figured he didnt need his beds to drain. first run stellar, second half yield, third total loss due to toxic salts. thats why it always a good idea to water untill you get runoff out the pots/drain. this alone flushes out the salts.
thanks for the conversation
best buds to ya
j.d.

Where did he post this regimine, Yankee?

JD, it's funny you mention scratching guanos cause that's all I feed with lol, LC's mix no.1 and PSG top scratched or mixed in at the beginning (depends on if I repot before flowering). That's why what Tom said in that particular post confused me so much cause I didn't taste or see any signs of what I have understood to be the effect of smoking herb with ionic salts present in the bud.

So there are still salts present in my medium, but they are not taken up by my plant so I'm good?

 

[NUG-JUG]

Wow...I was just pulling them out of the pots and sticking them in the toilet and repeatedly "flushing". I had no idea that's how the pro's do it in India! Thanx MM

Damn Capt. your way is so simple! I just chain em to the ceiling by the stalk and blast em with a garden hose till there's just roots flailing around...I spray each root ball for about 20-30 mins. Then do the boiling thing Microbeman was talking about. Works for me!

 

[guest2012y]

NUGJUG
Funny,back in the late 70's a lot of the people up here had this method/myth where they would pull them up by the roots and then wash them off and hang them upside down.
The myth was that that's where all the THC was,and by doing this it would all run down to the buds......
Some people would actually wrap the roots with a warm towel to speed up this trendy process of concentrating the THC in the buds.

You can still find "Old Timers" up here in the hills who will argue this actually works! No use even trying to tell them otherwise.

 

[NUG-JUG]

i
i have a friend who bought somas book and built the beds planning to reuse his soil, but he figured he didnt need his beds to drain. first run stellar, second half yield, third total loss due to toxic salts. thats why it always a good idea to water untill you get runoff out the pots/drain. this alone flushes out the salts.
thanks for the conversation
best buds to ya
j.d.

On a serious note, you make a good point that some salts may build up if drainage isn't adequate. Although JackTheGrower has a bed that he made about ten years ago, and he doesn't have salt issues. Maybe it's all about the inputs like local water, and what you use in the soil mix.

 

[NUG-JUG]

Capt.Cheeze1- Wow man I've heard the thc running to the buds myth, but I had no idea how far it went into crazy..A warm towel? lol!! Is this make the thc inside the roots melt so it flows to the buds better?
You just made my day with that one!..

 

[jdkronyk101]

this is hilarious...
i can actually remember a mexican brick bagseed patch appx17 yrs ago, in so-cal. me and my three buddies had a round table with our minimal experience at the time and concluded that daves dad had the most experience so we asked him. he said " you need to boil the roots for 15 min. then hang upside down and all the thc will stay in the flowers."
these were 1993 mexi schwag sativa brick seeds. all over 10 ft tall at harvest with a min of 50 gal root balls. i still am amazed , it took us two days to boil for 15 min the root balls of each of these six plants.... i still think he was fuckin with us to this day....he may have known better, but i think he just liked watching us work on ridiculous shit...
damn good laugh.
j.d.

NUGJUG
Funny,back in the late 70's a lot of the people up here had this method/myth where they would pull them up by the roots and then wash them off and hang them upside down.
The myth was that that's where all the THC was,and by doing this it would all run down to the buds......
Some people would actually wrap the roots with a warm towel to speed up this trendy process of concentrating the THC in the buds.

You can still find "Old Timers" up here in the hills who will argue this actually works! No use even trying to tell them otherwise.

 

[guest2012y]

this is hilarious...
i can actually remember a mexican brick bagseed patch appx17 yrs ago, in so-cal. me and my three buddies had a round table with our minimal experience at the time and concluded that daves dad had the most experience so we asked him. he said " you need to boil the roots for 15 min. then hang upside down and all the thc will stay in the flowers."
these were 1993 mexi schwag sativa brick seeds. all over 10 ft tall at harvest with a min of 50 gal root balls. i still am amazed , it took us two days to boil for 15 min the root balls of each of these six plants.... i still think he was fuckin with us to this day....he may have known better, but i think he just liked watching us work on ridiculous shit...
damn good laugh.
j.d.

I don't think he was fuc*ing with you.....I've been in a lot of heated debates with Old timers in the furthest reaches our our great woods and they are DEAD serious. Of course this is a BS practice....but I'm not going to argue with anyone about it,just nod the head in agreement and leave stoned.
What's the point of arguing.........period.

 

[supermanlives]

the only thing i flush is my toilet.maybe i am just lucky and have my nutes right. i dont want any runoff as its a waste of water

 

[grapeman]

On a serious note, you make a good point that some salts may build up if drainage isn't adequate. Although JackTheGrower has a bed that he made about ten years ago, and he doesn't have salt issues. Maybe it's all about the inputs like local water, and what you use in the soil mix.

Can't be just about the water as just about every nutrient is a salt. Having said that, I have NO opinion on the matter and am here just to learn. We do leach all of my other crops though, but always in the winter after harvest.