Tom Hill making me do research again..

[ocean_grown]

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1278356&postcount=17

So I was under the impression that there was no need for a "flush" of organic soil because there were no salts present to build up in the roots, Tom Hill seems to think otherwise. But my experience has been great with organics, my crop has always burned perfectly and tasted bomb, is this some other kind of "salt" he is talking about which would not adversely affect taste?

Thank you

 

[redneck shogun]

Perhaps the salts do not build to high levels because they leach out over time? Just a shot in the dark, I am no geologist, just an avid gardener. I'll leave this one for somebody more qualified, but now I am tempted to test for Na in my recycled soilless.

 

[jdkronyk101]

flushing is always essential, and although it may be possible to have a good burning unflushed organic herb, most unflushed herb synthetic or organic will turn out truly inferior. also just cause the guy takes your herb like everyone elses, doesnt mean its all that it can be.
most folks feed alot during flowering.regardless of synthetic or organic, it is fairly customary to feed a plant alot during flowering. any nutrient added in the flower cycle will need a certain ammount of time to properly break down, be taken in by your plants,expelled from them or not used at all. then begins the process of whats left over breaking down in the medium and then usually expelled in the end thru flushing.
in fact organics can and often do take alot longer than synthetics to break down in the medium. if a plant has too much nutrients too close too the end of its life, it will store it instead of expell it , and it can and does dramatically effect the cure.
unflushed herb still looks bomb and can still taste strong sometimes harsh, sometimes acceptable(its still green) but most experienced growers can taste the difference. almost all varietys of herb will cure and taste better when properly flushed.
undoubtably i bet if even your herb was properly flushed it would cure better, quality will last substantially longer, and overall it will just keep/stay better.
but can you grow harvest and cure unflushed organic herb? sure you can.but do you really want to? i can even think of a technically unflushed system that would work just fine...:
organic medium with guanos and other scratch ins. indoors or out. watered with compost teas. finished with plain water.
this would work great but it would still be flushed.not intentionally but still flushed none the less.
one could also do an experiment. side by side. name brand soil. up here we have power flower. one in power flower. the other in any soilless medium. take the equivalent guanos and earthworm castings, bone and blood meals, and add them to the soilless mix 2 weeks before harvest and plain water till finished.
the power flowered specimen to run with no food just plain water till finish.
now dry it cure it, take some pics, roll some joints try them both after a two to tree week cure.
results---- will be as follows..
your buddy who only smokes cheap schwag and mexican herb will tell you your unflushed herb is the bomb ticket and tell you you have a green thumb.
your uncle chong whos been smokin since the 60's, well he'll only take a couple of hits before he goes back to his trusty ol favorite flavors.
hope that helps
j.d.

----try to get it to a fine white ash ,that turns into moon dust at the slightest disturbance ,and disappears into the wind...

 

[redneck shogun]

Here we go again, wheeee

 

[CannaExists]

There is NO NEED to flush in organics... but on the other hand there is like... sooo a need to flush in organics.

It'd be quite interesting to see somebody do a side by side with clones. As I type that it sounds like something somebody would've did by now... but boy if I had a nickel.

Maybe were scared of the truth.

 

[Yankee Grower]

Decomposition of minerals in ALL soils form salts folks, when can we put this fact to rest? That "there's no need to be concerned about this with organics" is nothing more than a myth with a high probability to do more harm than good. Potential for damage from salts in organics (by the way, steer way the frick clear of "flower power" organic soil out of Humboldt, "but we don't put any salt in our soil! lol) is at least as high as in chemical fertilizer programs imo- at least the salts are measured into chemical fertilizers. With organics you're not always sure exactly what you're getting (that shroom compost can be off the charts!) & the same exact products can vary greatly. There is no room for doubt about this, test organics regularly with the Na meter.

Where does Tom say in this post you need to flush? In the Growing Big Outdoor thread he talks about how the breakdown of organic material results in salts but also the importance to tie those salts up. If they're tied up properly then why flush cause they're not going anywhere? If free roaming salts then they can possibly build up and cause problems and that's where it seems the testing comes into play. Anyway that's what I got out of what he said. Tom's organic program for growing trees is like an organic program on steroids...lol...so a different set of dynamics also.

 

[ocean_grown]

Where did he post this regimine, Yankee?

JD, it's funny you mention scratching guanos cause that's all I feed with lol, LC's mix no.1 and PSG top scratched or mixed in at the beginning (depends on if I repot before flowering). That's why what Tom said in that particular post confused me so much cause I didn't taste or see any signs of what I have understood to be the effect of smoking herb with ionic salts present in the bud.

So there are still salts present in my medium, but they are not taken up by my plant so I'm good?

 

[Stoned Crow]

Ocean Grown -

Do you water with guano-teas?........SC

 

[Ickis]

flushing is always essential, and although it may be possible to have a good burning unflushed organic herb, most unflushed herb synthetic or organic will turn out truly inferior. also just cause the guy takes your herb like everyone elses, doesnt mean its all that it can be.
BLAH! BLAH! BLAH!

I never want to smoke your pot or smoke with you. I mean NEVER. What a crock. The stupid white ash theory raises it's head again. You wasted so much getting those white ashes. Congrats you sacrificed yield and potency for taste and smoothness.

 

[guest2012y]

Here we go again, wheeee

Hold on to your hat's.....

 

[ocean_grown]

Ocean Grown -

Do you water with guano-teas?........SC

I water with EWC tea once flowering starts and scratch pulverized Peruvian Seabird Guano into the top of the soil, results have been fucking magical since I switched over to HPS + this organic soil/nute regimen (I was DWC before and had problems with it to say the least).

 

[Yankee Grower]

Where did he post this regimine, Yankee?

What regimen? The post I copied of Tom's is the one you linked to in your first post. Far as his regimen...Tom posts regularly in this thread and you just need to pick stuff up as he goes:

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=159846

Hope that answers it.

 

[Yankee Grower]

Seabird Guano

Probably one of the best flavor enhancers there is. I have a hypothesis the flavor enhancement comes, at least in part, from the concentration of seawater, and more specifically the sea minerals, from the birds diet. Could probably run some lab tests looking at the trace mineral content of something like seabird poo and bat poo for starters.

 

[ocean_grown]

Oh shit, thanks. That soil recipe has got to be fucking golden.

 

[Stoned Crow]

I water with EWC tea once flowering starts and scratch pulverized Peruvian Seabird Guano into the top of the soil, results have been fucking magical since I switched over to HPS + this organic soil/nute regimen (I was DWC before and had problems with it to say the least).

That's pretty much what I do too, except I mix guanos into my EWC, I've experienced the same results....at least I haven't smoked anything better yet.........SC

 

[Stoned Crow]

Probably one of the best flavor enhancers there is. I have a hypothesis the flavor enhancement comes, at least in part, from the concentration of seawater, and more specifically the sea minerals, from the birds diet. Could probably run some lab tests looking at the trace mineral content of something like seabird poo and bat poo for starters.

I believe the same goes for kelp meal & seaweed.......SC

 

[ocean_grown]

That's pretty much what I do too, except I mix guanos into my EWC, I've experienced the same results....at least I haven't smoked anything better yet.........SC

Yeeee, I know XD I love organic growing. I may have been able to get bigger yields if I stuck with DWC but I just can't see any reason to change with these kinds of results.. If I want a bigger yield I just take more clones

 

[treefrog]

I love the primal harvest (seabird guano) and have done grows without it to make sure my love is true.
I do have buddies that aren't into the flavor it imparts though. Whatever turns you on..
Same with flushing. Whatever.. if it makes you feel like a cannabis whisperer then groovy.

 

[Zendo]

from burnone's sig..

"Bullshit! There's no need to flush organics. -Bongaloid"

 

[Yankee Grower]

I believe the same goes for kelp meal & seaweed.......SC

There's something a bit different about the seabird guano. Anyone I know that's added SBG to their program even when already using kelp meal or seaweed products like Maxicrop notice a difference. For sure those other things help though.