Y
Yankee Grower
It's not mineral buildup IMO. The predominant compound in typical sea salt is sodium chloride and that's where your problem was.
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Sea solids and coco; Side by side trial
- Thread starter CovertCrops
- Start date
osirica420
Active member
well late in flower they dont like to eat much that can be a explanation for the burn also..
what HSS are you using ,your sure its legit?
If u flushed for a week all the leaves should die and the roots should die back also.. this is common sense..
I would not be so quick to blame the salt even the sodium chloride in particular...
i have had my ppm up to 3000ppm with no ill effects....
I think its just the way you went about using it so late in flower and using it to flush only at such a low PPM...
post the mineral make up of the salt you are using also if you can please...
what HSS are you using ,your sure its legit?
If u flushed for a week all the leaves should die and the roots should die back also.. this is common sense..
I would not be so quick to blame the salt even the sodium chloride in particular...
i have had my ppm up to 3000ppm with no ill effects....
I think its just the way you went about using it so late in flower and using it to flush only at such a low PPM...
post the mineral make up of the salt you are using also if you can please...
Y
Yankee Grower
It's probably not. Dr. Mercola is not the only company selling legit HSS as there are many.
I honestly think part of the 'problem' here was using it in a TAG enviro. It's obvious, since you've been running TAG for awhile, that you've got things pretty dialed in and introduction of the salt messed things up. I don't see anything else. You're the grower who went through this...do you have any other reasonable explanations?
PetFlora...sorry to hear about the problems and sucks to lose a grow like that.
osirica420
Active member
people have used sea salt in aeroponics my friend, so i would not say its the sole problem...
but may be part of it...
but may be part of it...
Y
Yankee Grower
What's the rest of the problem? It happened for a reason. Someone basically lost a grow....OUCH! Seems like PetFlora is a reasonably experienced TAG, not aeroponic, grower. 200 ppm sounds like nothing to start having problems with. What changed here? Only thing I can really see is the addition of sea salt to this growers setup. Yeah it came late in the cycle but only 200 ppm???
osirica420
Active member
As i stated when someone flushes with no nutrients in the water expect the plant to die mine go yellow in 4 days by 7 it looks like its about to fall over...
Especially with such a low ppm of seasalt after 1 day the plant is sucking on salt/sodium chloride only i am honestly surprised they even lasted as as long they did in a aero setup...
For this very reason is why we were advised to use high ppms of seasalt, without the trace macro and mirco they are simply just drinking salt and we all know what that does...
the large majority of sea salt is sodium chloride and there is a reason for this..
sodium chloride is most beneficial when accompanied with other minerals..
the sodium chloride acts as a delivery system, because all other minerals attach themselves to it and is easily assimilated into the plant..
Especially with such a low ppm of seasalt after 1 day the plant is sucking on salt/sodium chloride only i am honestly surprised they even lasted as as long they did in a aero setup...
For this very reason is why we were advised to use high ppms of seasalt, without the trace macro and mirco they are simply just drinking salt and we all know what that does...
the large majority of sea salt is sodium chloride and there is a reason for this..
sodium chloride is most beneficial when accompanied with other minerals..
the sodium chloride acts as a delivery system, because all other minerals attach themselves to it and is easily assimilated into the plant..
Well, no more Sea Salt experimenting for me. I will still add 1/4tsp to 5G rez for the trace minerals.
Neptune Harvest Fish Food and Seaweed Plant Food seems like the ideal nute complex for growing. Relatively cheap too, like $40 per gallon, including shipping. Will be using that for my next grow
Neptune Harvest Fish Food and Seaweed Plant Food seems like the ideal nute complex for growing. Relatively cheap too, like $40 per gallon, including shipping. Will be using that for my next grow
CovertCrops
Member
Petflora - Wow, that doesn't look good at all. Looks like TAG and sea salt don't mix, you have my sympathy bro. From my understanding the delivery system in tag is entirely different than the delivery system in even LP aero. Like Yankee Grower said maybe that has something to do with it?
Yankee Grower - I have to agree with you, I don't think TAG and sea salt get along.
Terramotto - Welcome to the sea salt club.
Osirica - Those buds dont look like that from flushin,Imo. I'd have to say salt burn.
Yankee Grower - I have to agree with you, I don't think TAG and sea salt get along.
Terramotto - Welcome to the sea salt club.
Osirica - Those buds dont look like that from flushin,Imo. I'd have to say salt burn.
Y
Yankee Grower
I don't know that they can't be used in a TAG system but obviously caution is warranted. TAG is another animal. While unfortunate for PetFlora losing his crop this way it may help others avoid the same fate.
CovertCrops - I agree that's not from flushing but they got fried.
Yankee nutrients and minerals do build up in the leaves, and moreso when there is more than the buds can use. Think of the primary leaves as defenders who offer themselves up first in an effort to protect the buds. I think the problem was two-fold.
1. The excess amount of NaCl in the leaves cause dthe leaves to dehydrate
2. The heat from 950 CFL watts added fuel to the fire, whereas the LED side did not.
FYI, because I kept an eye on it, I did not lose my whole crop. Although the entire CFL side has suffered, it's nothing like the bud pic I posted. And I'll bet it will be as potent and still smoke fine. Dried on the vine, instead of off the vine.
1. The excess amount of NaCl in the leaves cause dthe leaves to dehydrate
2. The heat from 950 CFL watts added fuel to the fire, whereas the LED side did not.
FYI, because I kept an eye on it, I did not lose my whole crop. Although the entire CFL side has suffered, it's nothing like the bud pic I posted. And I'll bet it will be as potent and still smoke fine. Dried on the vine, instead of off the vine.
Y
Yankee Grower
You're right. I was gonna back and edit that awhile back but let it go. Been laid up a week and foggy. One thing Osirica said which I will agree with in general is that NaCl probably aids in nutrient absorption. I know of studies done with people and using a pinch of quality whole salt increases cellular hydration. It actually helps your body absorb and utilize water better and see no reason why that won't happen in plants either. For sure some build up or overloading in the leaves/buds. Late in flower is not the time you'd want to add trace minerals though. Adding Mg late will mess the flavor and smokeability up more so than anything else but trace minerals also can negatively affect things.
osirica420
Active member
i am ignorant as far as TAG is concerned looks like aeroponics to me, i will look it up in a bit...
IMO its was the flush and the Naci from the low ppm of sea salt that made it wilt the way it did..
Not so sure about this TAG and sea salt being a culprit though i will look it up...
IMO its was the flush and the Naci from the low ppm of sea salt that made it wilt the way it did..
Not so sure about this TAG and sea salt being a culprit though i will look it up...
CovertCrops
Member
According to Dr. Murray, NaCL as found in seawater is beneficial to plant life because of the proportional balance with all the other elements in seawater. NaCL alone or added to a nutrient solution is toxic to plants. There is either a facet to the TAG environment that doesn't jive with sea salt or the problem lies in reducing the amount of sea salt. Foliar applications of sea water may be a better way to apply sea solids in a TAG system.
Day 26 - There are some deficiencies starting to show on both sides with the Control showing K, MG and the sea solid table showing MG. The control plants are much bigger in size but bud development is about the same. The Sea solid plants are healthier and happier!
Sea solids (left) Control (right)
Sea solids (left) Control (right)
Mostly Control plants (the far left are a few sea solid plants, notice how much greener they are the controls? Go Azospirillum!!)
Sea solids up front, Control in the back
Sea Solids Strawberry Cough - early MG def
Control Strawberry Cough - K, MG deficient
Sea Solid ECSD
Control ECSD
Shameless plug of the whole tent. The left side was fed Canna coco, same as the control plants, you can see some of the same issues on the SC.
Day 26 - There are some deficiencies starting to show on both sides with the Control showing K, MG and the sea solid table showing MG. The control plants are much bigger in size but bud development is about the same. The Sea solid plants are healthier and happier!
Sea solids (left) Control (right)
Sea solids (left) Control (right)
Mostly Control plants (the far left are a few sea solid plants, notice how much greener they are the controls? Go Azospirillum!!)
Sea solids up front, Control in the back
Sea Solids Strawberry Cough - early MG def
Control Strawberry Cough - K, MG deficient
Sea Solid ECSD
Control ECSD
Shameless plug of the whole tent. The left side was fed Canna coco, same as the control plants, you can see some of the same issues on the SC.
This might be the SOLE-ution both for us and our girls
http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/saltsole.htm#goldensole
http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/saltsole.htm#goldensole
Y
Yankee Grower
Sole is nothing but a salt solution. It stabilizes at about 26% solids after about 24 hours. There's really no difference between adding 1/4 tsp of dry salt and 1 tsp of sole to a res.
Studies have been done where people consumed whole salt instead of purified salt and statistically significant reduction in hypertension. That from the very minor difference in the trace mineral content! Pretty impressive actually. While I agree with Dr. Murray that there's a big difference between using purified salt and whole salt, as proven in studies, there's no need for all that NaCl. It's not the NaCl that's providing the benefits...it's mainly the trace mineral content. Get rid of the NaCl, or at least most of it, concentrate the 'good' stuff and think peoples results would be better...and you won't fry plants in TAG...LOL!
Studies have been done where people consumed whole salt instead of purified salt and statistically significant reduction in hypertension. That from the very minor difference in the trace mineral content! Pretty impressive actually. While I agree with Dr. Murray that there's a big difference between using purified salt and whole salt, as proven in studies, there's no need for all that NaCl. It's not the NaCl that's providing the benefits...it's mainly the trace mineral content. Get rid of the NaCl, or at least most of it, concentrate the 'good' stuff and think peoples results would be better...and you won't fry plants in TAG...LOL!
osirica420
Active member
Sweet update CovertCrops!
YankeeGrower..
Dr. Murray says the real deal salt works the best he tried varying contents of naci... as far as nutrient density..
i can provide references if u would like i have seen quite a few studies on this subject...
i have tried products with 98% of the salt removed and it doesnt work as good least not for me, i would have to adjust the way i use it you couldnt use it the same way as u would use the real salt.....
In this case where CovertCrops is having a MG def something like a extracted sea mineral blend would be good since it would have majority Mg in the mix to give it a extra boost in addition to whats already there and not loosing any salinity in the process..
YankeeGrower..
Dr. Murray says the real deal salt works the best he tried varying contents of naci... as far as nutrient density..
i can provide references if u would like i have seen quite a few studies on this subject...
i have tried products with 98% of the salt removed and it doesnt work as good least not for me, i would have to adjust the way i use it you couldnt use it the same way as u would use the real salt.....
In this case where CovertCrops is having a MG def something like a extracted sea mineral blend would be good since it would have majority Mg in the mix to give it a extra boost in addition to whats already there and not loosing any salinity in the process..
I wonder if coco + sea solids might be a problem if the coco is not flushed enough...
coco comes from coastal areas and sometimes gets rinsed/washed using sea water. many people have posted that their coco runoff EC is very high at times.
so... are we adding more salt on top of salt?
just a thought...
coco comes from coastal areas and sometimes gets rinsed/washed using sea water. many people have posted that their coco runoff EC is very high at times.
so... are we adding more salt on top of salt?
just a thought...
