Republicans and marijuana

[hoosierdaddy]

Let me ask you this, head...
Just as "hope" and "change" signify neither a positive nor a negative and cause nothing, "deregulation" in itself is also no form of causation, wouldn't you agree?
Now, if you do agree with that, explain to us what happened as a result of the "deregulating" of the banking industry? How was deregulation used to cause a financial downturn in the economy? Explain to us the logic that these bankers would have used to cause such a downturn?
Don't spout off deregulation without explaining that...because, as we surely agree simply deregulating ANYTHING does nothing. Give us some details about what you are trying to tell us....what did the banks do to cause things to go sour? And what would have been their motivations to do this?

???
Inquiring minds want to know

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Let me ask you this, head...
Just as "hope" and "change" signify neither a positive nor a negative and cause nothing, "deregulation" in itself is also no form of causation, wouldn't you agree?

Yes. However I was not talking about deregulation as a concept like hope or change... I was talking about the actual deregulation which actually took place... and I was not talking about all deregulation in general, I specifically said "banking" and "financial sector".

Just like changing financial institutions means something tangible, so does deregulating the financial sector.

Just when I thought you might be ready to discuss, you go back to red herring and straw men.

The details were in the news for months. I'm not doing your homework for you, kid.
Inquiring minds already know... it's the closed minds that are unaware.

 

[<~Hades~>]

" I Have the South in Front of me, and the Bankers Behind me.. and for my country I fear the Bankers More"

Abraham Lincoln

 

[dagnabit]

Yes. However I was not talking about deregulation as a concept like hope or change... I was talking about the actual deregulation which actually took place... and I was not talking about all deregulation in general, I specifically said "banking" and "financial sector".

Just like changing financial institutions means something tangible, so does deregulating the financial sector.

Just when I thought you might be ready to discuss, you go back to red herring and straw men.

The details were in the news for months. I'm not doing your homework for you, kid.
Inquiring minds already know... it's the closed minds that are unaware.

obfuscation and ad homonym.....

way to go sport

 

[hoosierdaddy]

First of all, I am 50 years old so you can stuff the kid shit.
And no, I am not going to straw men...I am asking you straight up to explain how deregulating the banking industry cause a downturn in our economy. Now, you can or you can't explain it past your talking points, and that is what I am trying to find out.
You don't need to do the homework for me, I am wanting to see if you know what the fuck you are talking about. I suspect you don't and can only counter with cut and paste talking points. But, just in case you actually can tell us what deregulation you meant (specifically...since you are so specific) please do so, and explain how that deregulation caused the economic downturn. I also asked about what the motivations would be for the banking sector to do what you are going to explain to us.

Waiting...
And don't play the "do your own homework" bullshit. I say put up or shut up. (shrug)

 

[SpasticGramps]

Deregulation is referring specifically to the Over the Counter Derivatives and Credit Default swaps. They are funny money trading tools that stack toxic liabilities on each other. 1929 all over again.

It's a total black market scam. Point in the case is the DOW is closing in on 11,000 and our economy has really already collapsed. The only reason it is like that is because it's a scam.

Madoff, WorldCom, Enron, Greece, and the US, EVERYONE is cooking the books lol. It's total financial lawlessness and chaos.

 

[<~Hades~>]

bEFORE FDR The boom and bust cycle was a constant thing, every 10-20 years the bubble burst, Fdr put regulation that stopped the banks from Doing Things they could not afford to do. or made no sense.. like compiling a million America credit accounts with mortgages and selling them as a commodity Or loaning more money then they could cover or buying more stock then they could afford......Slowly threw the years the republicans have slowly been stripping out the regulations so they could do the bizarre shit they did with the housing market and all the other foolish shit and the short selling and banks teaming up and blah blah blah There was no selling a stock on a stock of a stock on stock?What

If FDR regulations stood true and untouched~ alot of this would not have accured

 

[hoosierdaddy]

While I agree that credit default swaps as they are should not even be a part of the economic system, the fact that they exist is still not proof of any causation. The underlying of the derivatives has to see something negative happen for there to be any negative impact. (oh say like...I dunno...defaulted home loans maybe?)
Derivative and credit default trading on their faces did not do the deed.
I'm looking for the root cause. I wish everyone was. If we all knew what the actual root cause of this recent recession was, I think many opinions would change.
What worries me is that even if it were to be explained verbatim to the population, and we all understood it...there would still be those denying the truth and laying blame with nothing but talking points and rhetoric.

Head, is there other deregulation that you could point to?

 

[<~Hades~>]

While I agree that credit default swaps as they are should not even be a part of the economic system, the fact that they exist is still not proof of any causation. The underlying of the derivatives has to see something negative happen for there to be any negative impact. (oh say like...I dunno...defaulted home loans maybe?)
Derivative and credit default trading on their faces did not do the deed.
I'm looking for the root cause. I wish everyone was. If we all knew what the actual root cause of this recent recession was, I think many opinions would change.
What worries me is that even if it were to be explained verbatim to the population, and we all understood it...there would still be those denying the truth and laying blame with nothing but talking points and rhetoric.

Head, is there other deregulation that you could point to?

Ahhh i see where you going i think.I think.....are economy was destroyed by nafta put threw by the dems and that was Are end game defeat of are selves !!!! And created China to own all and , before that alot of company's where based in mexico , atleast tha helped are Neighbors , the end of detroit and the manufactoring sector in America....Now we make nothing in this country!!!

kinda like legalization of mj is a process of giving mj production to dole and del monte which will grow it in hawaii and south America by immigrant workers.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Graham Leech Bliley Act aka the Financial Services Modernization Act is what made too many institutions too big to fail.

 

[SpasticGramps]

The root cause is the government is bed with the FED IMO. More precisely, the government IS the FED.

For decades, the Congress and President's have done nothing, but the FED's bidding. The MIC is right up there with the FED.

Our system runs like this now. The FED--> The MIC--> The President--> Congress--> We the Suckers.

It should be We the People--> All three branches of Government

We now have 5 branches and the top two have nothing, but contempt for the people. We are cattle that buy their goods and do their bidding.

That's the root cause of why we can't smoke weed too IMO. Real legalization will fuck up their bottom line.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

lol... i told you the deregulation info was common knowledge... why should I have to educate you, if you don't even know your history.

We used to have a workable system for avoiding financial crises, resting on a combination of government guarantees and regulation. On one side, bank deposits were insured, preventing a recurrence of the immense bank runs that were a central cause of the Great Depression. On the other side, banks were tightly regulated, so that they didn’t take advantage of government guarantees by running excessive risks.

I'll grant you that "cheating their way around" regulation is as much to blame as the deregulation which began in the 1980s. But that in itself is a condemnation of unrestrained capitalism too. When banks can ignore long established protections by engaging in tactics like financing long-term investments with overnight borrowing, we were in a situation where the risks were comparable to the types of risk that were outlawed in the financial system of 1930, and our system became as vulnerable to severe crisis as the system of 1930.

In the 1980s and 90s, the characteristics that had made U.S. banks different from other banks throughout the world —the fragmented geographical structure of the industry, which restricted the scale of banks and their ability to compete with one another, and strict limits on the kinds of products and services commercial banks could offer—were virtually eliminated.

I could go on and on and on... but, like I've repeatedly said... Deregulation of the banking industry is pretty common knowledge. Direct causality? undoubtedly to some degree or another. Primum Movens? obviously.

 

[Texicannibus]

lol... i told you the deregulation info was common knowledge... why should I have to educate you, if you don't even know your history.

We used to have a workable system for avoiding financial crises, resting on a combination of government guarantees and regulation. On one side, bank deposits were insured, preventing a recurrence of the immense bank runs that were a central cause of the Great Depression. On the other side, banks were tightly regulated, so that they didn’t take advantage of government guarantees by running excessive risks.

I'll grant you that "cheating their way around" regulation is as much to blame as the deregulation which began in the 1980s. But that in itself is a condemnation of unrestrained capitalism too. When banks can ignore long established protections by engaging in tactics like financing long-term investments with overnight borrowing, we were in a situation where the risks were comparable to the types of risk that were outlawed in the financial system of 1930, and our system became as vulnerable to severe crisis as the system of 1930.

In the 1980s and 90s, the characteristics that had made U.S. banks different from other banks throughout the world —the fragmented geographical structure of the industry, which restricted the scale of banks and their ability to compete with one another, and strict limits on the kinds of products and services commercial banks could offer—were virtually eliminated.

I could go on and on and on... but, like I've repeatedly said... Deregulation of the banking industry is pretty common knowledge. Direct causality? undoubtedly to some degree or another. Primum Movens? obviously.

Just curious how does the Savings and loan scandal of the 80s fit into the above scenario? Did the deregulation that started in the 80s 'lead' to this collapse? I can concede that the current housing crash / financial crisis is worse, but not by as much as many may claim.

I do not believe that 'hard working' people are held down by the current system infact I believe it allows them to move up. Let me use Bill Gates as a example. This man worked for years in his garage, quit college early, and let his wife make his way for awhile. This wasnt easy but it probably encouraged him to work harder to be successful enough that she would no longer have to work. If you work hard and make yourself a asset to your company short of it going out of business you will be the last person to be fired. If you are a asset to whoever you work for then they have no reason to lay you off. I believe most of these qualified people you speak of are probably 'to good' for a regular job. Tough luck .. and not so hard working sounding to me. Ive met alot of people who worked there way up anywhere from 7-11 to pizza hut. Get a job make yourself a asset and you can find success if you dont find a better job. Your lifes what you make it quit looking for excuses.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

I never said anyone was "held down", anywhere... I said sometimes some people genuinely need help, and whenever I am around someone who needs help that I can easily provide, then I will. It was you who introduced 'hand outs' and being 'held down' to our exchange.
I like it better when people respond to what I actually say, than to straw men.

If you can't understand that sometimes circumstances which are beyond an individual's control dictate the course of their life, then I cannot help you, and I'm not going to carry on a debate with you as though you were being rational.

 

[Texicannibus]

I never said anyone was "held down".
I like it better when people respond to what I actually say, than to straw men.

If you can't understand that sometimes circumstances which are beyond an individual's control dictate the course of their life, then I cannot help you, and I'm not going to carry on a debate with you as though you were being rational.

Yea your posts have been completely rational.. anyhow Im glad because I have no intent to debate you. I have opinions I have given them. Think about what your saying sometime. You think someone in a wheelchair should just die because life is over .. no they continue and many do great things with there lives. Your only handicaps are the ones that you accept. We have a difference in opinions and im quite comfortable with that. As I said before I dont believe in making poverty comfortable.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Yea your posts have been completely rational.. anyhow Im glad because I have no intent to debate you. I have opinions I have given them. Think about what your saying sometime. You think someone in a wheelchair should just die because life is over .. no they continue and many do great things with there lives. Your only handicaps are the ones that you accept. We have a difference in opinions and im quite comfortable with that. As I said before I dont believe in making poverty comfortable.

I do think about what I'm saying, but you do not think about what I said or your replies quoting me would relate to something I said.


Where did I ever say one single thing which comes remotely close to implying that I think someone in a wheelchair should die??

Where did I say "poverty should be made comfortable" or anything similar?

at least my replies are based on actual statements the other person made. lol. Straw man arguers crack me up.


I hope your life's course never becomes dictated by circumstances beyond your control... but I also hope you gain enough perspective to realize that some people's is. You really should get out more, you have a fucked up perception that poor people are all poor because they choose to be and are too lazy to get rich...

 

[SpasticGramps]

You can work your way up in the system, but it is definitely rigged against us and it gets worse everyday.

We live in much more of a casino environment than an actual law based society.

The house is rigged to always win because they are ABOVE THE LAW and we are not. The law has become used as a weapon to keep people down (IE the current taxation system).

The strongest can break through the system, but when they steal your education, they steal your mind. The glaringly obvious intent to dumb the people down by Federalizing school funding, thus the schools themselves, is part of rigging the system. Dumb helpless people must rely on the government because they've been purposely taught to not be able to take care of themselves. As the generations have passed this has only become more and more evident IMO.

Because the Federal Government (THE FED) is all powerful now, they make it almost impossible for the average person to get out of the cattle guard. They have ALL the knowledge and are determined to keep it from the people.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for personal responsibility, but when the a few people control all the aspects of a person's life then, by definition, they can control your life and will do so.

 

[Texicannibus]

spastic I agree we live in a oligharchy *sp ... still doesnt change that your life is what you make it .. I dont believe there are these hard working people lined up to get jobs. I think they are waiting for specific professional jobs and will not accept anything less. I think there being coddled by these ever extended unemployment benefits.. I know that currently this system isnt working as advertised but its a hell of a lot better than the idea of increased govt control and influence (modern liberal).

Head, I think your positions are made clear by you wether implied or said directly.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Head, I think your positions are made clear by you wether implied or said directly.

Nope, you only made your assumptions regarding my statements clear.

What I said needs no interpretation, if it wasn't expressed then it wasn't implied. You are a bit presumptuous in your judgment.

Like I said... If you don't believe there are underemployed people who cannot find a higher paying job in their field, and unemployed people who cannot find a job in their field, and people with college degrees who are flipping burgers or laying sod because the job market is shit... then you don't get out enough or don't get out far enough.

Having desire and determination and a skill set, does not guarantee you'll get a job that pays enough to feed a family. You might like to imagine we live in a utopia where poverty is a lifestyle choice, but that isn't the reality.

 

[smokesalot420]

You can work your way up in the system, but it is definitely rigged against us and it gets worse everyday.

We live in much more of a casino environment than an actual law based society.

The house is rigged to always win because they are ABOVE THE LAW and we are not. The law has become used as a weapon to keep people down (IE the current taxation system).

The strongest can break through the system, but when they steal your education, they steal your mind. The glaringly obvious intent to dumb the people down by Federalizing school funding, thus the schools themselves, is part of rigging the system. Dumb helpless people must rely on the government because they've been purposely taught to not be able to take care of themselves. As the generations have passed this has only become more and more evident IMO.

Because the Federal Government (THE FED) is all powerful now, they make it almost impossible for the average person to get out of the cattle guard. They have ALL the knowledge and are determined to keep it from the people.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for personal responsibility, but when the a few people control all the aspects of a person's life then, by definition, they can control your life and will do so.

Well said!