Is Nevilles Haze still the strongest haze?

[indifferent]

Many, including Sam and Tom Hill have said that the ratio of hay to killer in Haze is about 20 to 1.

Thistellsme one oftwo thingsbout Neville's three Haze plants:

A: They were three killers selected from among a lot of hay, Neville certainly had the resources to grow thousands of Hazes to find the killers, maybe he found those three from thousands?

B: Neville found a killer sativa line, took the best three plants from it and decided to call them Haze as the name would give it immense commercial value.

B could be the more likely, it would account for why those three Haze plants of Neville's seem to be so distinct from all other Hazes, certainly I have seen little commonality between any of the hybrids of Sam's Haze I've grown and the Neville Haze work, that could be because Sam selected for the sweet side of Haze and Neville made different selections from a diverse genepool or it could be that they aren't the same thing at all.

We'll never know exactly where those three Haze plants of Neville's really came from, but I think the origins aren't important. What I think we can safely assume is that they are the result of hybridising some very special sativa genes from Thailand and Colombia, possibly with some Mexican and Indian in there as well.

 

[l33t]

hi indifferent,

The pure Haze male 'A' is dead according to Shanti. Plants like NL5HazeA are still alive though and 'active'.
Regarding the '71-'73 dates you posted regarding haze,
Sam said himself here at IC that Haze '69 stock from the H.Bros existed and that he has or had seeds from that year. Now,Sam only first mentioned the date 1969 (regarding Haze/and its development) ..after..Shanti first mentioned this date here on the IC forums. I can't say for sure Sam hadn't mentioned the '69 date before Shanti but in my years on canna forums I have never seen him mention this date or have heard a different medium where he mentioned it , before Shanti first posted it. So I would love to see if anyone has found something different on that. Any takers?
Nev's NLxHaze description from the SeedBank Neville says his haze comes from the last year of the Haze development.. and according to Shanti himself , Neville , received the '69Haze seedstock in the 70's.. Sam has posted lots of contradicting info over time , regarding what Haze he gave Nev and when. Female vs male clone and different dates on different occasions.
Also Sam has made it sound as if no person could have obtained Haze Bros Haze pure Haze seeds..without HBros or him knowing so.. This is something that doesn't make much sense if you actually sit and think about it..The HB did sell bud didnt they?..

"Interesting that the Haze hybrids Sam made that were sold by Flying Dutchmen and others never achieved anything like the popularity."

good point..I wonder why....
---

Hey DocLeaf,

"N.B. Neville's Haze is whack! (pants)! There's much finer 'Haze' examples available than that for getting high ! The worst sample from Amsterdam we ever smoked in the UK was a Neville's baggie "

"Perhaps we never tried a nice sample...

However,, opinion is based on substance and personal experience,, ,,, our gallery is full of top quality sativa genetics ,, like Hy-Pro Amnesia, Jack Herer,, SuperSilverHaze (and the F2) , Cheese x SSH,, more recently Congo x Nepal,, Gold Finger,, and Kentish Creme.

We wouldn't swap ANY of those genetics for Neville's Haze (no offense).. yo are a MNS fan/clan member,, as such you should be aware,, that all-round,, Super Silver Haze and even Jack Herer (100day specimen) diddle all over Nevile's Haze as far as sativa genetics flower,, any day of the week.. in any coffeeshop, baggie, or garden!

Peace n love"

You obviously haven't even run a pack of real F1 Neville's Haze in your own garden....yet you ditch the line as if you have run it and was really bad......

What you mean by saying that "all-round,, Super Silver Haze and even Jack Herer (100day specimen) diddle all over Nevile's Haze as far as sativa genetics flower"
Do you mean potency wise or in regards to how it grows/yields?
In case you don't know the true facts , both SSH and NH were created by Neville himself. Jack Herrer was also created by Neville
I have grown n smoked the real SSH as well as the real Nevs both from F1 seeds. Now my opinion which is based on my experience with SSH n NH is that the Nevil'sHaze is hands down the winner when it comes to potency and duration of the high. Actually its one of the strongest smokes on or off the market and the right pheno has a veeery long lasting high.
This line is certainly made for sativa lovers. And not all smokers have the same critieria when it comes to cannabis..

Super Silver Haze is a commercial haze plant , it even has 8-9wk finishers and massive yielding phenos. It has quite some indica blood in it and this is shown in many of the plants.
SSH is SkunkHaze'C' x NL#5Haze'C'. Haze'C' being a pure Haze male. SSH is a 50% Haze hybrid.
Neville's Haze is a long flowering , hard to grow , sativa dominant hybrid that has phenos that range from 12/13wks to over 17/18weeks..Its far from being a commercial plant but overall expresses the Haze more than SSH that is for sure.
NH is NL#5Haze'A' x Haze'C'. HazeA being a pure Haze male. NH is 75% Haze.
With SSH you can find a lot more body stone compared to other Haze hybrids but again it depends on selection as there are clear headed phenos in SSH with little to no body stone in the high...Anyone that has grown enough real f1 SSH seeds you will know that..

Fact: Both SSH and NH are some of the best haze hybrids in the market and each is unique in its own right..Both were created by Neville after he worked with pure Haze genetics. Nev selected from thousands of plants during the creation of SSH/NH and did some fine breeding work with his plants..the results speak for themselves..To those that say that Nev did very little work with plants and doesn't deserve much credit for all he has done..Ask yourselves why SSH/NH and other of Nevs lines are still so popular after so many years ? Why so many growers worldwide find SSH to be one of the best if not the best sat/ind hybrid both from a growers perspective as well from a smokers point of view ? As far as I m concerned I liked the SSH a lot but as a smoker I preferred the slow hazy phenos. I also grew Mango Haze which is a sister strain to SSH and like hempy said found it has a more clear high/lacks the body stone element. Its one of my favorite lines. Most SSH phenos can have a foggy high which I don't enjoy much , but found some truly special plants. Personally as a smoker who is also a grower I like both lines , each is unique in its own right .
-----

Regarding OT1 haze ,
just like hempy I was one of the growers that were offered the OT1's line over CW when it all started..I had declined the offer at the time too for various reasons but was very lucky to sample a lot of the different Ot1 plants from the ACE crew couple of years ago so I have an idea about how ot1's line smokes..smells and tastes.

I really liked some of the plants a lot , but I did not find the potency of any of the females I tried to be overwhelming unlike with other landraces and hybrids I have tried. Now many of the phenos had qualities that are also found in different Hazes I 've grown/smoked over the years. Its a very nice old school line and it certainly is one of the lines to try if one likes sativas and loves a haze type of high. I believe it has a lot of potential when it comes to breeding.
Is it really Haze? It has similarities to the Haze I know but if you ask me it , yes it could be something different. Is it Haze Bros haze? From the posts hempy quoted...it seems that the Ot1's line is not directly related to the Haze Bros Haze , the haze Sam and Neville have and made famous in Holland.

Here is Dubi(ACE seeds) on Ot1's line and NH

Hello Braindead :smile: nice questions!

Honestly, i have only tried Neville's Haze in clone form, i have never had the pleasure to explore the line from seed. The ones i have grown or smoked were very interesting, powerful and psychedelic, many good incensey expressions, without any doubt it's a magnificent sativa. Being a highly selected hybrid (2 very selected haze males and a NL mother) Neville Haze should be consistently more potent than oldtimer's haze, which is a not so highly selected, more diverse old inbred line.

But Oldtimer's Haze also shines when its correctly outcrossed, take a real nice oldtimer's haze mother and pollinate her with other consistent high quality bred. I dont like heavy indica x haze crosses and im not a NL fan but im sure 2 haze fathers used to create original Neville Haze hybrid are among the best you can find.

Anyway i prefer to cross haze with other high quality pure sativas (from africa, central american, thais and viets) and then explore the mixes

Personally I like the ACE crew a lot and I believe ACE did a fine job with the preservation of OT1's old school Sativa line..ACE have a great knowledge when it comes to our beloved plant and I respect ACE work a lot.

Hey OJD!
Happy 2010 man , hope the new year is full of Haze mate

Cheers,
l33t

 

[ojd]

i think nevil did 1000 nl5haze plants to find the a b c hazes

i hear what your saying indiferent but just from what you posted says it all

the list you posted(nice 1) of nevils work is outstanding and all my fav ever hazes are on that list

then you list 2 strains that sam did(i thought eddie did them but your prob right) 1 i like very much(if it is titans haze) but it nothing on the best hazes i ever tried
so that just shows you the amount of work nevil did with haze compared to sam

also happyhi was around those days so he knows more than any of us about the origins of the original haze as sam does

also there is alot of hype and bullshit in this industry
myths lie's and more are created all the time
i dont doubt nevil or sam lied or forgot some things


all i know is what i smoked and grown and nevils hazes are the best canabis i have smoked and grown

long live the haze
peace

 

[l33t]

ojd,

"i think nevil did 1000 nl5haze plants to find the a b c hazes"

Shanti has posted over his site that Haze'C' male and Haze'A' male which are pure Haze plants were made from pure Haze parents from '69. The Haze'B' female plant used in MNS La Nina strain is also
a pure Haze plant but its a female.

So basically Nev selected from pure Haze seeds pure Haze males and females , combined them and got HazeA etc..
In other words the HazeC is one generation apart from the pure Haze '69 seedstock Nev had.

 

[jingles]

Nahh: picked up a pack in 99 from Sensi-- still on ice, but the subsequent review in OG had about 20 people in a row saying that it was hay compared to the late 80's version-- perhaps they didn't know how to grow it properly? I'm interested to hear others' experience on this one as well as it was THE practical haze 10-15 years ago. Great Q since this is the strain that Shanti found killer parent stock from...

Thats what i meant, Has nobody tried haze#nl. Alot of talk about nl5#haze as a breeder but nothing on nevils first haze cross..

 

[JKD]

l33t

I agree.

As I wrote way back at the start of this thread (can anyone remember what it was about...lol.)

I culled my Jack Herer when I found my SSH mother. I culled my SSH mother when I found my Nevilles Haze mother.

I have only grown three haze hybrids but I have grown about 50 seedbank strains in total in the last 10 years and Nevilles Haze was BY FAR the strongest and BY FAR the longest lasting. 50 is a lot of strains people, and include an even mix of sativas and indicas.

I started this thread to try and find whether there was a haze stronger than Nevilles - 9 pages and I might have had about 5 genuine responses...

JKD

 

[Raco]

In that post wich was in 2002 i posted and like i told you before i would of loved to read the rest of it.

Con mucho gusto,Señor

where´s Haze "B"??

no hard feelings at all

 

[ojd]

JKD
sory but these haze topics go real deep lol

i dont personaly think there is a stronger haze than nevils haze(not that ive tried anyway)
maybe there is but not for sale anywhere

peace

 

[jingles]

Hi jkd, who,s nevs haze did you grow..

 

[indifferent]

Hiya ojd and l33t, I agree with you a lot about Hazes, I agree that Neville's Haze is the strongest out there in terms of modern sativas. I've smoked some more exotic and rare sativas that matched it, but not many. I also agree about SSH, it's the commercial version. The best phenos of SSH are the longest flowering ones with the least commercial appeal. Haze is never going to be a productive plant indoors so you have to introduce some indica genes, but definitely best to keep the indica to a minimum such as in Nev's Haze.

Titan's Haze is the new name for Fumar Con Diablos, which is Haze x Skunk. There is also Fumar Con Dios which is also Haze and Skunk genes, but I'm not sure what the difference is. The Fumar Con Dios is listed as 75% sativa, 25% indica so maybe it's 75% Haze and 25% Skunk, I really don't know.

 

[Bumble Buddy]

Well, if anything this whole story and surrounding message-board shenanegans regarding Original Haze has reinforced the understanding that humans can be persuaded to belief by emotions and create mental constructs and fabricated facts in support of that, vast fantasies arising from nothing even. Also, I puzzle over the seeming differences among people in the ability to logically/emotionally discriminate and sort of sniff out the truth of things, for lack of a better way of putting it.

To the ONE GUY in this thread who was actually there and knows first hand: thank you for posting, I and I'm sure MANY others who don't post are grateful.

 

[JKD]

OJD - no worries man, I'm laughing with this thread more than annoyed by it...

Jingles - I grew the Mr Nice version... I was way into the 'politics of cannabis' back then. (Much like everyone in this thread seems to be now) so just couldn't buy the Greenhouse version...LOL!

Nowadays I am far more mellow...

Finally I realised that I just like to get high man...

I don't care who bred it, as long as I like it and it gets me hiiiigh...

JKD

 

[ojd]

also while all the real haze lovers are in tha house

i will be organisisng a big haze smokeout party at a big apartment il rent during the icmag cup

i hope you will all join me and bring(or send il sort an adress out)some haze
hopefully we can have over 20 types of diferent haze or even more
i will go around holland a week before trying to find all the haf decent hazes available(that will be hard)for us to try
plus i will have a few with me and hopefully everyone brings a bit and we can have 1 of the biggest haze partys ever

if you are interested in atending
this will be a private party no cameras and no walk ins of the street
if you want to be inlvolved pm me

if there is enough people wanting to be involved il hold more than 1 party
maybe a party every night the week im there lol

i would love to see some of the legends of haze atend
shanti nevil sam tom hill wernard amongst some of the new breeders involved with haze
maybe if there are enough breeders interested there will be a breeder only party 1 of the nights

long live the haze

peace

 

[Raco]

JKD,
While I type this I´m smoking some TomHill´s Haze...it´s pure sativa and it´s phckn awesome
well,the term Haze has been widely used in a loose way IMO
So,to answer your question:
pure Haze,TomHill´s
(mostly) Haze hybrid,MNS Neville´s Haze

 

[Dalaihempy]

Hempy, your Neville fanboy-ism is wearing pretty thin now. I am happy to give Neville full credit for what he did do, but he bullshitted so much and you seem to have swallowed it all!

Neville built his reputation on the back of the work of others, it would have been nice if he gave some credit instead of making up stupid stories like the G13 myth he started. Remember, when the work to create the genetics Neville profited from was done, Neville was a little kid, he didn't even have the idea to sell seeds until 1982 and Northern Lights, Haze, G13, Early Pearl, Hashplant and all the other genes he used had already been in existence for man years.

Before Sam arrived in Holland, Neville was selling seeds picked out of coffeeshop imports and a handful of low quality lines he either bought or bred, if you look at his 1984 catalogue there is nothing apart from Northern Lights that was good enough to last the test of time:

So in 1984, all Neville had was pretty poor, in fact, all they had in Holland then was pretty poor, then Sam turned up with a collection of great genes. Neville wasn't the first to run a seed bank either, that was Lowlands Seed/Weed Co, run by Wernard Bruining and this guy, Kees Hoekert:


Here's Old Ed in the late 70s holding a Lowlands poster, this is before Neville even got to Holland:



Here he is examining the first Skunk grown in Holland from Sam's seeds:



So Neville made a shitload of money selling seeds to the US. If we look at his 1987 catalogue, it's all genes he bought in from other people and some F1 hybrids he made from them:



Cali Orange was bred by Jerry Biesler, brought to Holland by Sam and sold to Neville who then made a load of money out of selling the seeds to the US. Who deserves the credit for the breeding work here? Jerry Biesler of course, Sam and Neville just took credit and profitted.



Early Girl was bred by someone else in Cali, I forget who now, Durban and Swazi are imports, not sure about Early Pearl, Neville might have made that one himself.


Haze x Northern Lights, a simple F1 of two lines bought in and Ruderalis, a piece of crap picked from a Hungarian roadside, three pages in there is precous little evidence of Neville doing much breeding work.


Big Bud and Hashplant, two more lines that Neville bought in from the west coast of the US.

In 1984, Neville had nowt but shite, within 3 years all apart from Ruderalis and NL had disappeared to be replaced with genes either purchased from Sam or purchased from people on the west coast of the US, that is the bare facts, so let's give Neville credit for what he actually did do - track down and commercialise a load of great lines.

After 87, Neville did 3 years of solid breeding work before he got bust, it was in those years that he made the NL5 x Haze, Skunk x Haze, G14xHazeand Hashplant x Haze crosses that became the foundation for all the later Haze work.

So credit where credit is due, but hempy, FFS, please stop trying to build Neville up into something he wasn't!

Funny how you seam to know what neville did in his travels i never read or seen any of his notes on were he had gone to and collected genetics from the only one was really the story of him going to afghanistan after the soviet invasion to collect seeds i ever read online.


You and others seam to hate the guy called neville me i respect him for all he has done i have never met him a mate did in the 80s came back to australia told me of this realy nice guy that was helpfull and honest .

why is there a movement to bash his accomplishments ?.

why is his story brushed under the carpet and all you hear about is skunkman ?.

Funny you act like you know him and were there to see all his adventures and the work he did before he went into the shadows you know i could not work out why a guy with balls of steal that was so public all of a sudden just basicly go back into the shadows and till this day still do what he loves yet have no part in this community.

Rember kamas a bitch.

L33 good post mate.

JKD you can still find NH f1 mate must admitt i do find it funny wen i read people call nevilles haze week yet think sk1 is a life changeing experence lol.

 

[titoon29]

OJD - no worries man, I'm laughing with this thread more than annoyed by it...

Jingles - I grew the Mr Nice version... I was way into the 'politics of cannabis' back then. (Much like everyone in this thread seems to be now) so just couldn't buy the Greenhouse version...LOL!

Nowadays I am far more mellow...

Finally I realised that I just like to get high man...

I don't care who bred it, as long as I like it and it gets me hiiiigh...

JKD

hey mate JKD

a bit out of the subject, but...

you should care who you gives your money to, wether it is for cannabis or not.

when i buy organic food, i don t buy it because i believe it s way better for me, but rather that my money will go in pretty good hands of people who likes nature and care about it (at least more than most non organic farmers).

so off course you want good stuff, but as a matter of fact good stuff can be found in most of breeders gear now because they all have the same genepool.

i don t want to give my money to GH, cause they have way too much money, and still they cheat at the CC cup, they are not able to produce great strain or their own.
i don t want to give my money to reeferman neither because of his past.

just my 2 cent... the world is going wrong today cause people focus on the product rather than the producer.

but that's hard not to i agree !

props to you JKD for bringing this thread !

i'm out

i will be organisisng a big haze smokeout party at a big apartment il rent during the icmag cup

great idea !! i'm sure braindead will love that, i'ld if i were there at the time.

 

[jingles]

also while all the real haze lovers are in tha house

i will be organisisng a big haze smokeout party at a big apartment il rent during the icmag cup

i hope you will all join me and bring(or send il sort an adress out)some haze
hopefully we can have over 20 types of diferent haze or even more
i will go around holland a week before trying to find all the haf decent hazes available(that will be hard)for us to try
plus i will have a few with me and hopefully everyone brings a bit and we can have 1 of the biggest haze partys ever

if you are interested in atending
this will be a private party no cameras and no walk ins of the street
if you want to be inlvolved pm me

if there is enough people wanting to be involved il hold more than 1 party
maybe a party every night the week im there lol

i would love to see some of the legends of haze atend
shanti nevil sam tom hill wernard amongst some of the new breeders involved with haze
maybe if there are enough breeders interested there will be a breeder only party 1 of the nights

long live the haze

peace

Sounds good..

 

[JKD]

Titoon 29: I agree with the sentiment - But I think as soon as you put a price on it, you're in it for the money.

I'm with ojd... Long Live the Haze!

JKD


- Thanks for the tip Raco.

 

[jingles]

what should i start for this haze fest..

 

[SicKSKills]

to the op, wish you the best luck in finding something better, the hunt will always continue! my current fav haze hybrid is blue dream, even tho i have another 'hazy' clone from jjnyc thats his hybrid of nigerian silk and nl5haze that is superior but is just a little too raw for me... pure spicy haze no sweet or lemon smells, cant stand the lemony hazes spicy or sweet, ie schrom, jack h.

Ive read so many of these threads over the years and they are all the same but i still like to read em, we all share a great passion for the plant, its ok the passion creates a little drama...

All that aside, and as someone else already mentioned, why dont we turn back towards the roots of the grower groups in california when looking at these haze lines? I live in the bay area and know there is still talk of the santa cruz hazes, and clearly hybrids are still being made which means theres some sort of P1 genes lurking out there...