Serious Seeds Females

[Claude]

hey Claude,

first of all let me thank you very much for the thorough reply,
really appreciated

It would be nice to hear more details about the method used to reverse sex/produce fem seeds though..

Many companies seem to be quite open about their methods , some companies/breeders mention they use G.Acid , others say they use STS (Silver Thiosulfate Solution) , others like Soma use simple techniques where no substances are used/lets the plants ~2 extra weeks in flowering till they produce bananas and uses their pollen on other female plants to produce fem seeds..

as a potential customer of Serious Seeds products I believe I should be entitled to know what kind of method Serious Seeds use to create their fem seed products.

I can understand that it may be a new revolutionary method that you invented and are using and you may not want to share for some reason...but if you can't share the exact process with us it would be nice to know at least if any other substances are used to reverse sex and make fem seeds or if its a different 'natural' method.


Regards

l33t

I am realy sorry that I can not share with you the methode used.
Simon is one of the breeder that keep all is method secret.

I am really sorry...

Respect
Claude

 

[kopite]

Place in a warm place (80F), but not above 25 Celsius or maleness is promoted.

sex is genetic........

 

[englishrick]

yeh,,,,,,sex is only phenotipic [without hormone supressants] in plants with intersexed traits,,,,,,,,,,

true kopite bro?,,,,,,,,happy newyear btw

 

[eugenegreen]

yeh,,,,,,sex is only phenotipic [without hormone supressants] in plants with intersexed traits,,,,,,,,,,

true kopite bro?,,,,,,,,happy newyear btw

Unless you're Victor Frankenstein, Muwhoooohaaaahaaaahaaahaaaa

 

[englishrick]

Unless you're Victor Frankenstein, Muwhoooohaaaahaaaahaaahaaaa

sci-fi anit gona help peeps understand the concepts people are putting forward here...,,,

bro,,,do you know about Phenotypic plasticity?

 

[eugenegreen]

Hey bro, don't loosely apply a term as Phenotypic plasticity around without understanding how broadly it is applied... i.e. environmental factors don't just change the here and now, pp is applied throughout the the life of the organism (whatever it may be!); meaning behavior in adult life is affected too...

Don't drag me into this garbage

 

[englishrick]

when sam droped in, this thread became gold,,,what have you been readin lol


if it makes you happy to sit and not share your info ,,,good for you,,,

 

[kopite]

One of the real problems for breeding with all female seeds is the number of plants used to find the selected female clones to be used for transforming to male for pollen.
If a breeder can't use males because he don't have enough grow space, then maybe, maybe he should not be breeding in the first place. I mean that breeding Cannabis is not something to cut corners on, you need large plant numbers to make any sort of quick progress toward any goal. Using only females for breeding because you don't have any room for unwanted males really reveals something fundamentally lacking in your breeding program and your priorities.
BTW I do not believe that using all female seeds will be worse for growers of commercial crops, if the seeds were made from true females and not inter-sexed females. I see no increase of inter-sexed plants from properly made all female seeds. But that said I have no idea what percentage of all female seeds are properly made, not a whole lot I suspect, it is just to easy to STS a female clone you got yesterday, and make a batch of whatever X whatever all female seeds, without any stress testing of the female clones for inter-sexed traits before you use them to make seeds. That is the problem, anyone can make all female seeds you just need STS not any breeding ability, but the good part is it is a lot easier then maintaing males, hell, anyone can do it. And because the qualities of an F1 all female or not are most often between the two parents, if you use strong female clones as parents then the odds of your all female offspring being at least ok bud is very high.
My own reasons for not making all female seeds is I want growers to have both female and male plants, so the seeds planted will reproduce if grown outdoors un-helped by man.
While with all female the plants are dependent on man for reproduction. Unless man turns one of the all females to male with STS then there will be no seeds, and soon who knows what? I do understand why cultivators like all female seeds, but breeders? I can't help but think they are just trying to cut corners and reduce plant numbers, something that should be avoided if you want to be a breeder, large plant numbers are the key to quick progress, wise up.

-SamS

One of the real problems for breeding with all female seeds is the number of plants used to find the selected female clones to be used for transforming to male for pollen.

that applies across the board does it not its all a numbers game. granted though the so called elites are few and far between that breed true.

If a breeder can't use males because he don't have enough grow space, then maybe, maybe he should not be breeding in the first place. I mean that breeding Cannabis is not something to cut corners on, you need large plant numbers to make any sort of quick progress toward any goal. Using only females for breeding because you don't have any room for unwanted males really reveals something fundamentally lacking in your breeding program and your priorities.

I completely agree.

BTW I do not believe that using all female seeds will be worse for growers of commercial crops, if the seeds were made from true females and not inter-sexed females. I see no increase of inter-sexed plants from properly made all female seeds.

Nor do I, how would you advise people on finding "true" females? I have gone thru plenty and stressed in many conditions but selfing a plant has proven to reveal the most about it. And have you found ever that a plant you considered a "true female" have progeny that showed intersex plants?, perhaps this a good reason to self a male too ?.

I can't help but think they are just trying to cut corners and reduce plant numbers, something that should be avoided if you want to be a breeder, large plant numbers are the key to quick progress, wise up.

Of course they are, but then companies/hacks have done this with reg seeds...

one thing I find upsetting is one man who should be in this dicussion is hyb but we all we know what happened there.....


Re: phenotypic plasticity,

As far as i'm aware this is a survival mech, and needs the right genes/inducer to work... so to be seen phenotypically it needs to be there genetically.

 

[englishrick]

that applies across the board does it not its all a numbers game. granted though the so called elites are few and far between that breed true.

^^^^ kopite bro,,,,,,this raises the question ::::what are we supposed to do with the outliner inderviduals with observed and desired traits,,,

wouldnt you say::::XX polen carries more genetic info than XYpolen,,,,,?????,,,,,when outcrossing wouldnt you rather capture more genetic info????,,,,,XYpolen seems of a lesser standard imo,,,,,,,no?

Nor do I, how would you advise people on finding "true" females? I have gone thru plenty and stressed in many conditions but selfing a plant has proven to reveal the most about it. And have you found ever that a plant you considered a "true female" have progeny that showed intersex plants?, perhaps this a good reason to self a male too ?.

^^^^^^^^GOOD QUESTION,,,,,,,,,i also think selfing is wickid for understanding an indervidual,,,,,,

id also like to point out that:::: selfpolinating species use selfing to enshure that supirior genotypes do not get lost,,,,,,,,,i think we should be using selfing for this reason too

one thing I find upsetting is one man who should be in this dicussion is hyb but we all we know what happened there.....

yeh man,,,i wish i coulda met the guy,,,,,i bet me an him woulda got on like ahouse on fire

Re: phenotypic plasticity,

As far as i'm aware this is a survival mech, and needs the right genes/inducer to work... so to be seen phenotypically it needs to be there genetically.

^^^^exactly the answer i was looking for

thank god for you guys,,,,,,,some of you dudes are displaying a very high level of understanding,,,,,,,i love icmag

 

[elmanito]

^^^^
selfpolinating species use selfing to enshure that supirior genotypes do not get lost,,,,,,,,,i think we should be using selfing for this reason too

Dont you think the variety should be stable for this purpose????

Namaste

 

[indifferent]

Originally Posted by kopite
that applies across the board does it not its all a numbers game. granted though the so called elites are few and far between that breed true.

Yes, like I said before, it's all about the numbers.

Good point about elites that breed true being few and far between. For me, it is the internet and the obsession with elites that has done a lot of damage in recent years. Some 'breeders' (and I use the term lightly) have made a lot of money out of 'stabilising' elites into seedlines. Well, all an elite happens to be is a good pheno of a seedline in the first place, or a bagseed in many cases. Breeders should work with large populations to create new and unique seedlines as Sam used to do and Shantibaba still does. Elites should be seen as what they are - nice cuts that are fun to grow, but they aren't a part of any proper breeding project.

 

[Claude]

That is the CUP poster

 

[Hammerhead]

That plant looks like it has PM?

 

[englishrick]

Dont you think the variety should be stable for this purpose????

Namaste

hay el

true,,,,,,,ovioulsly we start off with a landrace,,,,,,then we make hybrids from the landrace,,,,,,,


but what IF our available genepool is made-up entirely of hybreeds,,,,,emagine landrace were just NOT available






im thinkin:::::


emagine a young grower finds 1 amazing plant in some heterogeneous hybrid seeds,,,,,,,,

lets say this plant is ULTRA AMAZING,,,

[oviously, any improvement would be for his niche only without a propper multi-objective-optermization-plan, but still]

what would you rather that young grower do???

my advice would be,,,,"hay kid,,,isolate your desired traits"



id tell him,,,,,,,,,"hit the UltraAmazing with loads of different XY and XXpolen",,,,,,,,,,,make fuggin loads of seeds

B) selfpolinate




id say

hay kid ,,,,,"only by combining all these breeding tools can we achive our collective goals"

no ,,,el,,,,,,,,,,good advice????

 

[elmanito]

hay el

emagine a young grower finds 1 amazing plant in some heterogeneous hybrid seeds,,,,,,,,

lets say this plant is ULTRA AMAZING,,,

[oviously, any improvement would be for his niche only without a propper multi-objective-optermization-plan, but still]

what would you rather that young grower do???

my advice would be,,,,"hay kid,,,isolate your desired traits"

id tell him,,,,,,,,,"hit the UltraAmazing with loads of different XY and XXpolen",,,,,,,,,,,make fuggin loads of seeds

B) selfpolinate


id say

hay kid ,,,,,"only by combining all these breeding tools can we achive our collective goals"

no ,,,el,,,,,,,,,,good advice????

I hope he kept a male, but i would go for A (isolate the trait) just to find a place where you can germinate a lot of seeds and find the traite.Sure you can selfed it, but the strain is not fully stable, so the offspring will give him a mixture of traits also.

Today you have more unstable multiple hybrids in the western cannabis drug gene pool.Someone gave me seeds of a strain named NDB (New Dame Blanche) which is an unstable multiple hybrid.He had this year one pheno which had a cannabinoid profile of high amount of THC & CBD.He didnt keep a clone of this pheno, so thats a pity, but he gave me seeds.I like to puzzle.

Namaste

 

[englishrick]

i agree,,,,,,,,selfing a heterogeneous indervidual alone, will not give stable ofspring!!!!!!


yes,,,,,i agree,,,,,growing 1000`s m/f seeds and isolating in this way will result in you acomplishing all goals,,,,,yes!!


but,,,, there is more than 1 way to skin a cat,,,,,,,,,,,an sometimes the other ways are more eco




lets take your New Dame Blanche for example::::::::

firstly id grow 1000`s of m/f seeds to find a selection of inderviduals who express the desired traits,,,,,,,

THEN,,once i have forund [lets say 3 fem inderviduals] together they hold ALL the desired traits,,,,

then,,,after i have aquired the inderviduals who hold quantitivly ALL the desired traits,,,,,to speed things up to a rate faster than fullsib mating i would start selfing,,,,,,,,an i dont mean selfpolinating in the classic way,,,,,,,,,,,,,,im talking about selfing each clone an dusting another,, i call it [reverced incrossing].......






hay el........what do you think is better????,,,,,,,,,,,,,outcrossing with XY polen,,,,,,,or outcrossing with XX polen,,,,,,,,,,,,

imo the XX polen carries more genetic info than the XY,,,,,is this correct????

 

[deemstar]

had 4/8 female white russian turn intersex at week 5 ....

these were normal white russian seeds...I would HATE to see what the feminized ones look like...

saw both nanners AND at the very tip of the buds there are these green pods with no trichromes with 3-4 pistils growing out in a star formation.... thanks for the intersex beans serious...thought they were supposed to be stable? :/ I'm not a pro but I hardly screwed anything up...have seen things go much better with half the effort from others using other seeds....

for a company that touts stability might as well just buy some ripoffs or use bagseed....not gonna make a difference... shit is stupid... soma's shit was more stable and that dude from what I can tell is gone....



FML, wish I would get in a car accident!

 

[Claude]

had 4/8 female white russian turn intersex at week 5 ....

these were normal white russian seeds...I would HATE to see what the feminized ones look like...

saw both nanners AND at the very tip of the buds there are these green pods with no trichromes with 3-4 pistils growing out in a star formation.... thanks for the intersex beans serious...thought they were supposed to be stable? :/ I'm not a pro but I hardly screwed anything up...have seen things go much better with half the effort from others using other seeds....

for a company that touts stability might as well just buy some ripoffs or use bagseed....not gonna make a difference... shit is stupid... soma's shit was more stable and that dude from what I can tell is gone....



FML, wish I would get in a car accident!

Hi
Can you tell me where you bought those seeds as they have just started to get out of the shop??

Respect
Claude

 

[Claude]

Ho sorry I mist read those were regular then get back to us at [email protected] with all info (serial onthe card methode etc...) and we will probably replace them at no cost.

Respect
Claude

 

[deemstar]

damn, that was a really, really fast response..I apologize for my harshness. To be honest the last 48 hours have been something on the order of 3 powers beyond what a buzzkill could possibly be.

The intersex traits could have been caused by stress, hence the raging on my part, but having grown a lot of plants over my life and this one more than once, these plants in particular just seemed to flounder.

I guess what everyone meant by stable was that you were gonna get similar phenos, but here I was thinking it related to the 1:1 ratio thing. They looked beautiful up until they became seed bearing plants and not much else...it all happened (all 4 showing intersex traits) within a week, during which conditions seemingly were closer than optimal than other times, so I guess the only possible stress would be slightly too much water, but nothing over the top...but for the size of the plants this seems strange....