James Morrison
~*MR.MOJORISIN*~
weed snobs///
guilty as charged
guilty as charged
Why do people get irritated when you ask what strain they're selling
- Thread starter hempknowsis
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D
danny karey
Most people in my area dont give a shit what the name is, I mean really the name means nothing. It could be a seed out of a 10 pack that doesnt even represent the characteristics that were sought for in the first place.
You would seriously get laughed at for asking in my area.
Danny
You would seriously get laughed at for asking in my area.
Danny
VanXant is right in many respects,(although a little crude in putting his/her point across)... there are not many true 'strains' at all......
A 'strain' is a line that has been 'worked' over successive generations(for years).... to become stable and consistently show the traits that the breeder has decided that he wants.......The seeds produced from a successful breeding project should be stable and all grow out to be not just similar plants but the same plant, one being indistinguishable from the other.....
Most seedmakers don't use the time, space or knowledge needed to produce a true 'strain'..........although many (most) can and do produce nice varieties of cannabis that are not stable and so have many phenotypical expressions........The more a seedline is worked properly the more chance there is for that seedline to become stable.....
So in closing I would rather use the word 'variety' to describe a variable seedline......and 'strain' to describe the finished product of a properly worked and stable seedline...........
A 'strain' is a line that has been 'worked' over successive generations(for years).... to become stable and consistently show the traits that the breeder has decided that he wants.......The seeds produced from a successful breeding project should be stable and all grow out to be not just similar plants but the same plant, one being indistinguishable from the other.....
Most seedmakers don't use the time, space or knowledge needed to produce a true 'strain'..........although many (most) can and do produce nice varieties of cannabis that are not stable and so have many phenotypical expressions........The more a seedline is worked properly the more chance there is for that seedline to become stable.....
So in closing I would rather use the word 'variety' to describe a variable seedline......and 'strain' to describe the finished product of a properly worked and stable seedline...........
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M
medi-useA
'pot is pot, it's a weed' is the opinion of a friend of mine...
and YET...my home grown is always extrordinary compared to what he gets...my home grown is sought after despite the fact I don't sell it...care taken with growing weed always pays off...growing with good stock ALWAYS pays off!...keeping QUIET about 'strains' always pays off...
my 5cents
muA
and YET...my home grown is always extrordinary compared to what he gets...my home grown is sought after despite the fact I don't sell it...care taken with growing weed always pays off...growing with good stock ALWAYS pays off!...keeping QUIET about 'strains' always pays off...
my 5cents
muA
Gypsy concurs. (although a little crude in coming out with the truth of the matter)
These seedlots essentially ALL FALL SHORT of what typical plant breeding produces. They are done by amateurs who exploit and then reduce the potential of future drug cannabis genetics. The amateur participants do not put the time into, and dont have the facility to create a 'strain" of cannabis, yet they use the word as if they HAVE created a 'strain'. They are cannabis "seedmakers", and not legitimate plant breeders.
What they are producing is VARIABLE in all the traits of importance, unreliable in their grow performance and subsequent inheritance, and have very questionable histories of selection...lets not even mention the labeling they have created to falsely represent these bastardized seed strains.
These seedlots essentially ALL FALL SHORT of what typical plant breeding produces. They are done by amateurs who exploit and then reduce the potential of future drug cannabis genetics. The amateur participants do not put the time into, and dont have the facility to create a 'strain" of cannabis, yet they use the word as if they HAVE created a 'strain'. They are cannabis "seedmakers", and not legitimate plant breeders.
What they are producing is VARIABLE in all the traits of importance, unreliable in their grow performance and subsequent inheritance, and have very questionable histories of selection...lets not even mention the labeling they have created to falsely represent these bastardized seed strains.
Hmmm.... I'm going to point out that we have a long line of vendor forums here at IC. I'm sure they're just turning around chasing tails.
NO STRAINS? At least, if it pleases the court, could you explain sativa and indica differences?
Actually, it was pretty much to the point. At least he didn't compare a sculpture to a turd. BTW, a turd is "sculpted" ...by the colon. It may not be very pretty but it serves a beautiful function. In other words, to truly appreciate the sculpture, you have to appreciate the turd. You paint with a very broad brush. While your elite terminology indeed has it's place, "variety" encompasses the nature of the discussion. You can split a bald man's hair if you get technical but it makes you look silly.
I take back the part about your broad brush. The above is a bucket of whitewash splattered against the wall. Some of the amateurs you speak of deserve to be splattered. The rest is like a pig looking for a fight. Everybody gets dirty and the pig likes it.
You could also learn a bit about word selection.
Silver Bullet
Member
They dont know.
jack DA reaper
Member
Im seeing some read alot .done a littles in this thread now.....Usaully have phd in AG and cant grow a bean stalk
To most people 'pot is pot and weed is weed' etc.......regardless of what pheno's people get....
I think that to be able to teach those that don't understand breeding properly you should go about it in such a way that does not get their back up by having to use crude analogies....hmmm semantics you say....lol!
The majority of cannabis users couldn't tell a cannabis sativa from cannabis indica from cannabis ruderalis and many current seedlots are hybrids of two or three of these........
So in reality it doesn't really matter to most as long as the medicinal/recreational effects are felt.....
99.9% of all growers/seedmakers just don't have the space nor time nor effort nor knowledge to produce true F1 Hybrids, but are happy to just make seeds that others grow and are happy in turn to grow out and consume the product from their endeavours.......
Where-as a true breeder will take the time, and has the space and the knowledge to produce a seedline that is unique and stable, so growing out to the exact description exhibiting the traits that the breeder has managed to stabilize within that 'strain'......
I think that to be able to teach those that don't understand breeding properly you should go about it in such a way that does not get their back up by having to use crude analogies....hmmm semantics you say....lol!
The majority of cannabis users couldn't tell a cannabis sativa from cannabis indica from cannabis ruderalis and many current seedlots are hybrids of two or three of these........
So in reality it doesn't really matter to most as long as the medicinal/recreational effects are felt.....
99.9% of all growers/seedmakers just don't have the space nor time nor effort nor knowledge to produce true F1 Hybrids, but are happy to just make seeds that others grow and are happy in turn to grow out and consume the product from their endeavours.......
Where-as a true breeder will take the time, and has the space and the knowledge to produce a seedline that is unique and stable, so growing out to the exact description exhibiting the traits that the breeder has managed to stabilize within that 'strain'......
So,
If 99.9% dont know, dont care and/or dont have a facility, then WHO is the 0.1% who do? The Skunkman? I dont think so..his skunk story is too full of holes to be taken seriously. So, with no Skunkman, there is nothing. none. right?
When you started seedselling you told the world that your seeds were all from professionals. Afterward, you opened it up for the hacks..(seedbay) Now you admit that its 99.9% hacks, and agree that most of your customers dont know that they are buying hackjobs and not "strains".
At least we are on the same page now. That only took 10 years....
If 99.9% dont know, dont care and/or dont have a facility, then WHO is the 0.1% who do? The Skunkman? I dont think so..his skunk story is too full of holes to be taken seriously. So, with no Skunkman, there is nothing. none. right?
When you started seedselling you told the world that your seeds were all from professionals. Afterward, you opened it up for the hacks..(seedbay) Now you admit that its 99.9% hacks, and agree that most of your customers dont know that they are buying hackjobs and not "strains".
At least we are on the same page now. That only took 10 years....
May I make a suggestion? Not only did Gypsy open up the bay to so called amateurs, he also created a web site where everyone may discuss their trials, tribulations and successes. He doesn't require seed purchase to participate. This allows you and your "strains" to join, even if you don't buy anything.
I could understand your technicality, (not really an argument) about clinical terms if you were in competition and sold 100% "strains" as opposed to varieties. Less that, you sound like a snob. I value the information but the delivery is another story.
BTW, since you're so technical with terms, "professional" means one gets paid, period. Any stipulations you apply may or may not be shared by the majority of seed buyers. I've grown bag seed for years. I never grew a single commercial variety that comes close to some of the stuff available here. I for one don't feel duped to learn I may possess a mere variety as opposed to strain.
Are there any domesticated pedigrees that have been bastardized? Yes. Is the future of animal breeding in jeopardy? Probably not. Worth getting snippy about? Maybe in a pm.
landrace seed companies
MIGHTYMITE
Member
OP
as far as knowing what they are smoking
one guy i know goes to the trouble of handwriting making labels on ALL the bags he sells
thus everyone knows the strain they have..
,,
oddly he nver brings the same stuff twice,,
as far as knowing what they are smoking
one guy i know goes to the trouble of handwriting making labels on ALL the bags he sells
thus everyone knows the strain they have..
,,
oddly he nver brings the same stuff twice,,
Why do people get irritated when you ask what strain they're selling
so hempknowsis, I gots to know bro,
what's that strain you're selling?
so hempknowsis, I gots to know bro,
what's that strain you're selling?
There are many breeders of cannabis out there that understand how to produce true F1 hybrids and have been doing so for quite some time, many of these also put out good crosses and the results of their work in progress to much acclaim and have been doing this for years.......
Judging who is a 'professional' or not can be based purely upon the fact that they get paid for doing what they do for it does take time, effort and money to produce a seed-lot........Your reference to 'hacks' is insulting to many that are working or have worked to create something unique......
Anyone that takes the time to actually make seeds is helping those that want to grow cannabis since most don't have the ability to get hold of cannabis genetic material to be able to grow anything without the service and work of a breeder/seedmaker....
If you are such a purist and so concerned about what seeds are available for growers to grow, then why don't you proove this and make something that in your eyes is acceptable and then make the seeds from your work available to the general growing population?
I have traveled to many parts of the globe to find true landrace varieties of cannabis to be able to supply different breeders with the basic material to be able to make something interesting, so if you require these seeds to help you create something new perhaps, then I am more than willing to help you out by sending you some.......
No. There are NOT "many breeders" making true F1 Hybrids, nor has there been any true commercial F1s after the First Crosses of geographically-distant indicas and sativas,...where Nature made the true-breeding parents, not Man. Man took credit for Nature's work on those F1s.
Calling paid seedmakers 'professionals' simply because they were paid does not make them professional breeders. These paid professionals are nothing more than paid seed farmers, producing nothing more than (at best) average seeds, employing short-term programs with very small populations. Next year's release of this year's 'strain' from most of these paid seedmakers does not even employ the same parental ingredients, unless the seed offering is made from 2 clone plants, which some are. I am quite aware of what making seeds entails; I have made many hackjobs myself, and it really doesnt take much.
They are "hacks" because they really dont make anything "unique", as you suggest. Genetically unstabilized seedlots are not unique. They are more 'random' or 'unpredictable', than 'unique' ... Unless of course youre saying that these people make seedlots which every sister seedling will be 'unique'?.haha. Thats exactly what you will get with a bubblegumXhinduXdieselXkushXNLxSweetskunk they called 'WonderShizzle'.
*Lest we forget that with every paid hack job produced with small breeding populations, the gene pool becomes smaller and even the uniqueness of todays seedlings will be less so after long-term chronic global genetic erosion.
Take the time and effort to make a "strain"? and release it into this fuck-fest? The current seedmarket does not support REAL strains. Theres little to no accountability, no variety protection in the alleys of cannabizz. A real strain would merely be a catalyst to more hacking by the ones who already are players in the seed game..the 'pros' will take an improved, true breeding variety and chop it into polyhybrids within a year. And would you support that Gypsy? Would you encourage quick and dirty crosses and even knockoffs of the Original? Or would you take a stand and not agree to facilitating hackjobs of REAL STRAINS?
I appreciate the offer for landrace seeds but Im good...STORE THEM, dont fragment the population by giving(or selling) them to people. Nobody can legally do them justice. Store them away safely for now and do something good for cannabis.
BurmeseDragon
Member
I don't know but so many find out they are in a professional situation and way to domesticated to be a pain in the ass! It's a bad scene around here! Finding some weed from kids and well they all turn into hit men!
Heya VanXant,
As always, I agree with most everything you say. But, I could release seedline after seedline after seedline, true breeding lines by the strictest definition - and no, I am not talking about smoothing out white widow etc, lol. No less than 8-10 of them - fully removed- and my resources are as vast as anybodies that I've ever seen or even heard of.
You would rightfully accuse me of too often a cycle but I've been working and believe I do have a sound definition of it. Here's the thing... Most all truly righteous pure lines I have ever come across or developed are not valued by folk because they are not high yielding Mexicans or hybrids thereof.
Let me ask what is a better use of time in your opinion.... To attempt slowly molding a single line over 10+ generations in hopes that it has value in the end? Or, to quickly develop several in the hopes that one has the fitness and overall value to go down in history? And without guys like Gypsy how the fucck would anybody ever truly know the answer? -Tom
As always, I agree with most everything you say. But, I could release seedline after seedline after seedline, true breeding lines by the strictest definition - and no, I am not talking about smoothing out white widow etc, lol. No less than 8-10 of them - fully removed- and my resources are as vast as anybodies that I've ever seen or even heard of.
You would rightfully accuse me of too often a cycle but I've been working and believe I do have a sound definition of it. Here's the thing... Most all truly righteous pure lines I have ever come across or developed are not valued by folk because they are not high yielding Mexicans or hybrids thereof.
Let me ask what is a better use of time in your opinion.... To attempt slowly molding a single line over 10+ generations in hopes that it has value in the end? Or, to quickly develop several in the hopes that one has the fitness and overall value to go down in history? And without guys like Gypsy how the fucck would anybody ever truly know the answer? -Tom
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Well VanXant(Hibe?) here is a breeder that does take the time and the effort to produce something truly unique.........
....and his name is Tom Hill....
maybe you should take your argument up with him.....?
Alot of what you say is true, concise and to the point....
But keep this in mind......I am someone that has a mission to supply the world with seeds that will grow out into plants that will help people medicate themselves or be used for recreational purposes so I am not too particular as long as I can find the seeds to do this.........and so create happy growers......and generally I do.....
....and his name is Tom Hill....
maybe you should take your argument up with him.....?
Alot of what you say is true, concise and to the point....
But keep this in mind......I am someone that has a mission to supply the world with seeds that will grow out into plants that will help people medicate themselves or be used for recreational purposes so I am not too particular as long as I can find the seeds to do this.........and so create happy growers......and generally I do.....
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