Why do people get irritated when you ask what strain they're selling

[Moldy Dreads]

Not to attribute to the shit storm here.

BUT!

You are all wrong. What is being produced are cultivars not varieties.

Varieties are a population within a species that are different in NATURAL populations.

Cultivars aka "Cultivated variety" was a term coined by L.H. Baily, different plants within a species developed vegatatively.

Examples would be: *IN SINGLE QUOTES!!!*

Cannabis indica 'Legends Ultimate Indica'
Cannabis sativa 'SSH'

Since everyone wants to get real deep into it at least be correct. This is coming from a Horticulture grad student. No disrespect to anyone.

Information that is correct, is that there a little to no cannabis strains. Few plants in this genus are true from seed.

Don't waste your time. Many don't have the education needed to understand this. I swear, you try to talk horticulture and most on the site respond like you just said a bad word. So funny how Cannabis growers think they are in a world where horticultural principles that have been used for decades are innefective, don't apply, and are dismissed for their own dreamed up classifications and definitions/theories.. funny shit...

I get a kick out of the funny ass responses, popcorn anyone...

 

[kopite]

They are not STRAINS. They are not VARIETIES. They are not CULTIVARS.

You are all wrong. What is being produced are cultivars not varieties.

Varieties are a population within a species that are different in NATURAL populations.

Cultivars aka "Cultivated variety" was a term coined by L.H. Baily, different plants within a species developed vegatatively.

Examples would be: *IN SINGLE QUOTES!!!*

Cannabis indica 'Legends Ultimate Indica'
Cannabis sativa 'SSH'

Since everyone wants to get real deep into it at least be correct. This is coming from a Horticulture grad student. No disrespect to anyone.

Information that is correct, is that there a little to no cannabis strains. Few plants in this genus are true from seed.

From a legal point of view is "variety" prefered? as i understand it in nomenclature the term cultivar is prefered

... in relation to cannabis the best example I can come up with is the blueberry family/variety (i class them in the species/genus cannabis).. however for me a cultivar is a clone or a stand out plant chosen for its characteristics much like you find with apples .... Some would term Deep chunk a seedline Cultivar (cultigen?) and if i look at it with bluberry to me you see more variation in blueberry.. hence i think varietal (although wine term?) applies more than cultivar to blueberry and its relations....

Information that is correct, is that there a little to no cannabis strains. Few plants in this genus are true from seed

I'd agree with that

Theyre seed lots. Unstabilized polyhybrid seed lots.

Some have tried though, albeit very few... though on the whole yes to me basdardisation is all you see on a grand scale



Kopite

 

[headband 707]

Perhap the gene pool is getting destroyed and he is right about the fact that before we fuck around we should find a way to preserve it before we lose it. The fact that the Hemp fields pollen are being introduced to the new crop is just one example of how the genes get weakened. They are going to look back on these days and say oh shit we should keep these seeds when we had our chance peace out Headband707

 

[justjeff81]

VanXant 1st thanks for the concern of my wife and as of 6 months ago she is cancer free

It just seems to me that everyone's getting all shitty over what the technical term is over what most know as a "strain".
All I was saying before is that I dig the service gypsy and the seedmakers give to the world because of my experience's. I disagree with you claiming that gypsy isn't delivering what people are paying for.
Maybe I'm a sucker, but for me it's worth it to buy a type based on seeing a description that appeals to me, then coming here to see if the masses are saying that said strain performs the way that the breeders claim, and then make my purchase. I've bought about 10 different "strains" and all have performed fairly close to what the breeder has said it would. To me thats worth spending the money to know what to expect. Then again I am somewhat a noob to the world of cannabis. Been smoking for 16 years now but was pretty ignorant until I found IC.
When I said I used to toss around seeds and pray for something, I meant I knew how to germinate seeds and would start some in my closet get them out but didn't know shit on how to care for them. That was with random bag seed and while I was in high school.
I don't dispute that you can and will get great results from random bag seed, but for me, I'd rather go into a project with a good idea of what to expect as far as finish times, taste and smells, whether it's performs better outdoor or in, mold resistant ect. I don't always want life to be like a box of chocolates, ya know.

 

[KingFriday]

Wow.

Ok here's another education vs. wikipedia arguement.

Lemme clear this up.

The seed lots are "Fixed varieties" and specimen plants grown from these lots are cultivars.

The jabroni states that the end result is an "unhybridized seed lot". Now the only time this statement is true is at the beginning of the production when the breeder takes a land race seed lot (also known as an "unhybridized seed lot" for people trying to sound psuedo-smart) which hasn't been crossed with any hybrid genetics. As soon as he breeds the F1 generation it becomes A HYBRIDIZED SEEDLOT.

After many back crosses, noticeable favoring characteristics arise continually and BOOM theres a VARIETY. Then the breeder finds a specimen that satisfies all wants and propagates it vegatively and each clone is known as the end result a CULTIVAR. But when a variety is back crossed enough to get down to true from seed it is known as a FIXED VARIETY.

Honestly, where each individual seed lies in this depends on how much work has been done on it. They are marketed as Cultivars but only clones can rightfully receive the cultivar status but that doesn't really stop these seed breeders from mislabeling. Marijuana horticulturists have a somewhat of their own way of naming and doing things due to concentration on a single Genus,and a LACK of formal education. It may work with solely MJ cultivation but it is FAR from correct in the grand scheme of things.

Quoting wikipedia won't get you respect. You far from right, and arguing a googled subject with a person (Gypsy) that has been in Horticulture and achieved more in a day than you've done in a lifetime is also a joke. Give credit where it is due. Yes they are not 100% true from seed but they have been worked to a delightful degree and if you don't like the results don't buy the seeds.

I really wish you were in my propagation lab. My GTA eats scrubs like you for dinner.

BE GOOD FAMILY

 

[SuperConductor]

Quoting wikipedia won't get you respect.

Neither will paraphrasing The Rock lol sorry couldn't resist.

 

[KingFriday]

lol.

 

[Noobian]

First off let me just say that I really am enjoying reading this thread, the level of discourse thus far has been at a level that I can honestly say I haven't seen on any other cannabis site. I just want to thank Gypsy Nirvana for making this place available for all of us, newcomers and old timers to come and speak and be heard, and to allow us to share our knowledge with each other and to listen and learn something. Speaking for myself, this is the best resource to expand my cannabis knowledge base and just LEARN about the things I don't know, and probably never would have known, about how does the guru vanzant put it, "drug cannabis". No matter what side of the debate you subscribe to, I think we can all agree that IC Mag the website is an extremely useful resource and tool, and we should all wish it nothing but continued success in the future.

Now as to the debate at hand.

Guru vanzant if you could be so kind as to answer this question for me I would really appreciate it since I believe the entire crux of your argument, what you've been trying to relay to all of us here, relies on the definition of what you mean when you say "The traits we deem important from drug cannabis." Can you explain exactly what you mean when you say that? From the standpoint of an end user of drug cannabis and not a producer, biologist, or geneticist I can say that what traits I find important are most likely not going to be the same traits that someone who is producing or cultivating cannabis from a genetics standpoint will find important. I know it must be difficult trying to convince people that what they are doing by producing and selling seeds is destroying the diversity of the cannabis gene pool, but it seems that the actual results of this destruction are not apparent to the vast majority of end users such as myself, so what do you think can be done to change peoples overall opinion to this problem? If every person that we end users purchase from is selling "top notch" weed and we keep buying it from them, what incentive do the sellers and producers have to stop doing what they are doing? Have we, as of 2009, arrived at a point in time when money and profit hold less sway over a person's actions than principles? I think sadly the answer remains a solid "No". At least for the vast majority of the population that is.

 

[headband 707]

Wow.

Ok here's another education vs. wikipedia arguement.

Lemme clear this up.

The seed lots are "Fixed varieties" and specimen plants grown from these lots are cultivars.

The jabroni states that the end result is an "unhybridized seed lot". Now the only time this statement is true is at the beginning of the production when the breeder takes a land race seed lot (also known as an "unhybridized seed lot" for people trying to sound psuedo-smart) which hasn't been crossed with any hybrid genetics. As soon as he breeds the F1 generation it becomes A HYBRIDIZED SEEDLOT.

After many back crosses, noticeable favoring characteristics arise continually and BOOM theres a VARIETY. Then the breeder finds a specimen that satisfies all wants and propagates it vegatively and each clone is known as the end result a CULTIVAR. But when a variety is back crossed enough to get down to true from seed it is known as a FIXED VARIETY.

Honestly, where each individual seed lies in this depends on how much work has been done on it. They are marketed as Cultivars but only clones can rightfully receive the cultivar status but that doesn't really stop these seed breeders from mislabeling. Marijuana horticulturists have a somewhat of their own way of naming and doing things due to concentration on a single Genus,and a LACK of formal education. It may work with solely MJ cultivation but it is FAR from correct in the grand scheme of things.

Quoting wikipedia won't get you respect. You far from right, and arguing a googled subject with a person (Gypsy) that has been in Horticulture and achieved more in a day than you've done in a lifetime is also a joke. Give credit where it is due. Yes they are not 100% true from seed but they have been worked to a delightful degree and if you don't like the results don't buy the seeds.

I really wish you were in my propagation lab. My GTA eats scrubs like you for dinner.

BE GOOD FAMILY

Well there will always be the X factor I have some polyploids now who knows where that will go right? Hybrid vigor always has the X factor and if wik is all you got thats where you start right? peace out Headband707

 

[Tom Hill]

Just grabbing a seat

 

[KingFriday]

Just to add. I don't believe my education puts me above others. There are some incredible, EXTREMELY talented people here.

Cannabis sparked my love for horticulture, and now that has extended to all plants. I encourage everyone to get in school and get involved. The more educated the cannabis community is the more power we have.

I promise if you love cannabis you will love other plants. Think about a Cannabis sp. that has the fragrance of an Osmanthus? *drool*

 

[headband 707]

Just to add. I don't believe my education puts me above others. There are some incredible, EXTREMELY talented people here.

Cannabis sparked my love for horticulture, and now that has extended to all plants. I encourage everyone to get in school and get involved. The more educated the cannabis community is the more power we have.

I promise if you love cannabis you will love other plants. Think about a Cannabis sp. that has the fragrance of an Osmanthus? *drool*

I actually liked your post found it very educational but still there is always the X factor look at Chemdawg91 right ? lol peace out Headband707

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Gypsy,

You are "getting requests" for something that you are not delivering, man.

Hmm.. so Gypsy isn't delivering seeds anymore?

I think you may have mistaken IC for some other site... there are professionals here... just because something shows up in the mail doesn't make a shitty crop worth it, and to assume such shows me that you really have no basis for a debate.



You are wrong. I am guessing from the way you act nobody has ever told you this. I'll take the initiative to be the first.

 

[VanXant]

Not a prob, Noobian.

The traits that we(end users and genetic conservationists) deem important AND are polygenic includeI think you will also find them important)

POTENCY/CANNABINOID PROFILE
AROMAS/FLAVORS
YIELD
SEXUAL STABILITY
MATURATION
HEIGHT/ARCHITECTURE
ADAPTIVE ABILITY

And very likely to be polygenic:
RESPIRATION
ROOT ARCHITECTURE
PHOTOSYNTHETIC POTENTIAL
DISEASE RESISTANCE
FLORAL PHENOTYPE(calyx:leaf, architecture)

Im sure theres more....

Even though the erosion of the drug genepool is not apparent to you and probably many people yet, it is still something that is happening. An elementary understanding of the principles of genetics, botany, biology... is all you need to understand that what we are doing is not the proper way to maintain such important germplasm. Many cannabis users end up knowing more about all of these than most, because of their close relationship with cannabis.

What can be done to change it? All I can think of is to try and make it KNOWN that these conditions exist. To make it known that we COULD stop it if we wanted to....
This is a cannabis site where THE TRUSTEES of the drug genepool gather to talk cannabis and learn from each other about their favorite plant/substance. Im sure most of us would not WANT to hurt the gene pool, and wouldn't if we were aware of a problem that we are contributing to...Sadly, many of cannabis' trustees dont understand that they are involved in the future of cannabis; that they hold the future of drug cannabis strains in their own personal seed collections; that their selections and matings and how they manage the diversity and integrity of their collections, are the genetic history of drug cannabis. All of OUR seeds are ultimately going to become the genetics of which future cultivar improvements or discoveries will be sought. Your seeds, my seeds, the bag seeds, the seed boutique seeds, the import, the hermaphroditic, the eroded, the conserved, the pure, fragmented and/or hybridized land races,..all of them are the gene pool and you are supposed to take care of it,... and I can keep it REAL(even when the truth is hard to swallow), and keep it fresh in your head. ...
Im trusting that 'awareness' will be THE SEED that "it all starts from".

havagoodone

 

[BurmeseDragon]

some soap box people it gets demeaning with what you are showing off or how you are hiding it with some OG fights and concerns!

It's problem just shooting you and taking it or what! some beer sample and can sample and camping store sample out in the woods for the weed sample!

it seems to take some time to get through all the drugs! Kinda not sure what they are good for in the right proportion but it finds the narc!

P.S! Some of them you don't want to lose! Not sure when to had coca to beer!

 

[Tom Hill]

Outstanding post VanXant, add fitness to the list (I guess that's what all this is ultimately about).

At some point I would very much enjoy some input on what beneficial steps you'd like to see folks take if they had the resources. IE, what's the plan post stop/save/wait etc... -T

 

[mean mr.mustard]

With that fact that we all have to take responsibility in mind, I have yet another question for you. How do you think all of the growers who are aware of genetic degradation and our influences, and selections as well as the consequences thereof, would take to your shockingly blanketing generalizations?

I'm with Tom, please explain how you are the only one who properly promotes correct cannabis geneology. I'm interested to hear the techniques you've developed that are unavailable to the rest of humanity.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

I think that a major problem is that we have this plant (cannabis) in purgatory.....Cannabis and it's production is illegal most anywhere on the planet and so to grow or breed with it has to be done in a clandestine fashion......

....and so it is not easy or even possible for most all that want to make seeds to be able to grow out large populations for selections and then continue over the years it should take to produce a properly finished line....

I do agree with much of what VanXant is saying, but realize that we have to cope with the real world here and try to keep the plant alive and at the same time supply the ever growing community of growers out there with viable and vigorous cannabis genetics so that they are able to produce enough cannabis for medicinal and/or recreational purposes....

There are some true breeders that do understand how to complete a breeding project properly and successfully, but because of the time, space and legal constraints are under enormous pressures over the 4 years or so it might take to produce a correctly finished product......

From traveling and gathering in remote areas and then storing what I find as well as distributing these seeds to those that I hope might use them for new breeding projects I try and do my bit towards cannabis conservation in the present and possibly in the future.... but still have thousands of requests for the seeds (polyhybrids, hybrids e.t.c.) from many other breeders that I buy seed stock from and then supply the demand.....

Hopefully one day we will have full legalization and the legal constraints that we now have upon cannabis cultivation and the breeding of cannabis will be lifted and then a more accountable and accurate system of breeding will come to be the norm.....when and if that time ever comes I will be ready with a land race collection of seeds that then can be used to create the seed lots of the future......if of course that actually takes place within my life-time......

Until then I can only carry on with what I do in trying to supply the demand for genetic material to further our aims of Overgrowing the planet and supplying those that wish to learn about how to do this with the information necessary to be able to accomplish this...

 

[unclefishstick]

cannabis is such an adaptable plant that on that glorious day when it can live free in the sun,everywhere will have it's own landrace(so to speak)as it expands out of the tents and closets,all the little seed islands made possible by folks like gypsy will come back together into a Pangaea of pot!

 

[Tom Hill]

How do you think all of the growers who are aware of genetic degradation and our influences, and selections as well as the consequences thereof, would take to your shockingly blanketing generalizations?

With extreme offense of course ...

Hyb will see right through this, but the rest of you won't ,lol IE, only the top 5 or so pics were grown from seed for selection/breeding purposes. -T