Canna Boost V Molasses - side by side comparison.

[Hazy Lady]

Differences? maybe so!

Differences? maybe so!

Hi *m* and d, I agree you can't really see any great diff's overall but I imagined they would look similar until the stretch was finished, I was thinking the genetics would dictate the first weeks of bloom, to a point!, the type, formation of buds etc, then the diet would dictate the quantity and quality of the flowers from then on in?.
There are some slight differences not visible in the pics, it seems some are stretching more than others, we can take a closer look at the bud formation, inter-node spacing etc in due course, to be honest I had not given much thought to this side of things as perhaps I should and was focusing on the actual bud side but i'm on it now!, The Molasses (C) plants are looking in need of a shot of N, I have not attempted to fix this for obvious reasons, I only checked PH run-off to ensure it wasn't that, it wasn't!, PH in and out has remained pretty constant for all plants so far. Now, although you can't see it, I would say the Boost (B) and the Boost & Molasses (D) buds are looking a touch frostier than A & C, but that could be a trick of the light, the angle i'm at or any number of reasons they look frostier but they do!, however!, my nose is hard to fool and the same 2 sets B & D smell a whole point stronger, these plants start out smelling of tropical fruits and go though a paint thinner/fuel stage before they settle to the final scent, these 2 are already past the fruit smell and smell fuelly (sp). This change in smell being so distinct makes me believe there is at least something different going on, I hope we get some visible changes though or I'll be forced to hold a smoke out and let you lot decide if there is indeed any change, I do think we will see some by next pics though

 

[BigPhil]

hello lady great thread good experiment your doing. ill tag along till the end

 

[nomaad]

Solid report, Hazy. Keep it coming.

 

[*mistress*]

The Molasses (C) plants are looking in need of a shot of N, I have not attempted to fix this for obvious reasons, I only checked PH run-off to ensure it wasn't that, it wasn't!, PH in and out has remained pretty constant for all plants so far.

have ran molasses-only as feed few runs, in imagination...

they do get n deficient around week 4-6...

a dose of magi-cal, alaska 5-1-1, or other higher n-than-p/k may help...

alternatively, let the fans age on their own & the plant will naturally cull them... run 9-10 weeks fictitiously. generally give final shot of n @ wk 4-5. then they get only kool bloom 0-10-10 & molasses & floralicious bloom. others get only molasses. leaves are dying/dead by 65-70 days - if that is what you want... otherwise, molasses-only will require more nitrogen, if want greener leaves.

in imaginary garden, all of the n is used by the plants. w/ high light levels, not really concerned w/ yellowing leaves. the fruit & closely surrounding leaves gets the light...

they will survive either way... theory: adding little org (maybe ewc...) matter to coco+microbes lets them break down org n over annual life of plant (12-18 weeks).

after several assays of various molasses, the general npk is 1-0-5. there is phosphorous in there, just ~> than 1...

if interested, general molasses npk data in link:
calculating npk/nutrient profile

enjoy your garden!

 

[Leviathan]

With canna boost accelerating metabolism, it might help to feed more to see if that makes a difference. I had a K deficiency the day after I added boost, so it definitely does something. I am using both molasses and boost together, and noticing a much stronger smell than I had seen last round.

i just read somewere else he at I.C about molasses making plants stink more, might be true, since ive been useing it my girls starting to stink more as well, good to know for stealth grows maybe cut out the end flower carbs.

 

[bonecarver_OG]

hazy lady - how much A+B are u using? presuming u are using canna coco..

please, specify if it is a CAL MAG isue -as stated by misstress OR a Nitrogen issue.

the signs of the 3 is quite different. N will mean the leaf partially turns yellow. if its getting lighter coloring along the edges it might be calmag related.

BUT IF it is; N

N deficiency in W 4 is is most likelly only because those plants want higher nute level. this is why i ask about nute dosage.

me personally think W4 is time to cut down N on most 8-10W strains, since a lot of the stetch is done. also bringing down early on the levels of N works for more resin production since nitrogen has the oposite effect.

i usually prevent this by giving higher nute dosage during the first month, untill the very moment of PK. then i drop it a LOT, all the way to the end...

in your case i would just ignore it, since the stretch most likelly is done, and the plant might just have used some extra N from the bottom leaf.

but specify the problem, and its easier to solve

anyhow
the question is why is this only happening on the molasses plants? is it perhaps because this plant is growing more vigorously...



-
this plant i feed only 15ml of a+b, or ec 1 more or less

w8 - no boost (this is just one of the tips of a bigger plant)

 

[grow nerd]

Very interesting. Tagged.

 

[UnknownProphet]

Great experiment, to me the molasses plant looks the best. My opinion though, so disregard it if you don't agree.

 

[Hazy Lady]

Bloom day 28 Continued

Bloom day 28 Continued

Thanks everyone for the kind words
In answer to both *m* and BoneCarver, I am using Canna Coco A & B @ 20 mls each per 10 liters, There is no doubt this IS a N deficit not Mag or Cal I am usually OK on that score with the Epsom and Seaweed I use each feed, I wasn't sure at first if I should treat the Molasses twins?, not wanting to effect any possible outcomes but after some thought and a visit or two to Canna UK I concluded I should up the A & B for all the plants 1, I feel they could do with it! and 2, this ensures things stay equal but give the Molasses girls a little extra N. On the Canna site I used their grow guide calculator, they only include Canna products and they suggest E.C values around 2.6 to 2.8 and this without Seaweed/Epsom, mine has those 2 and I am around 1.6 average, I won't take it as high as Canna say but I think they can all stand a few weeks at 0.5 EC higher.
As for why just the Molasses is N deficiant?, I really am stumped, actually when I noticed it I thought they weren't happy under the light, I have been rotating the 8 plants every 2 days, there is always a couple of plants that get the strongest light whichever way I put them, but anyway they have moved twice since and remained the same colour, it has got no worse though.

 

[Hazy Lady]

@ Bonecarver, I was looking to see if indeed the Molasses plants are growing more vigorously?, actually they turn out to be the shortest of the bunch!, it is only an inch or so but it is there, on closer looking I can clearly see the fan leaves on these two are a good deal larger than their sisters, I will get pics when I can pull them out but they are no doubt larger than the others, could it be the extra N went into these larger leaves and now they are short - of N?, maybe *mistress* has heard but is Molasses known for producing foliage? or increasing the ave size?

 

[Wait...What?]

growing a plant well is all about providing the nutrients in their proper ratio to eachother

perhaps the molasses is skewing the N:K, N:Ca or Ca:Mg ratios.

 

[bonecarver_OG]

i think i have not read any reports about that specifically, but i guess everything is possible depends on how strong the Molasses is..

since u say the leaf are bigger on the mollases plants.. it could be one rational explanation! the N has to go somewhere... if the PH etc is allrigth, not many options left

but im sure this is just because they are in the end of stretch, they shouldnt use too much N after this..

if the plants that recieve boost has grown 1 inch more. sorry if im not jumping around of excitement ehehe seems just so little effect for the money.

i should add the only EFFECT we could see with the use of BOOST was maybe a slightly quicker maduration of the buds. but maybe it ws max a few days a week earlier, but as we saw it in the day, it seemed to be on cost of potency.


so hazy lady - it can be true, if it seems that you can see some "boost" plants might possible be maturing quicker.

peace

 

[Hazy Lady]

Bonecarver

]if the plants that recieve boost has grown 1 inch more. sorry if im not jumping around of excitement ehehe seems just so little effect for the money.

Well I have to agree with you, however it IS early daze so don't put your pogo stick away just yet, I will be happy to drop Boost from my shopping list B', as long as I can honestly say it isn't worth the money, and that's the rub!, I have been thinking about Greystokes post, how much or rather how little extra bud is worthwhile?, In my case for example, I have around 20 plants on the go ( in flower) at any time,lets assume my garden is at max output, if Boost nudged the yield by 5 grammes to give me an extra 100, or £20 of Boost = 4oz(100g), if the bottom line is yield an extra LB each year is very worthwhile.

so hazy lady - it can be true, if it seems that you can see some "boost" plants might possible be maturing quicker.

I have always used Boost on everything in flower so have not seen any early finishing, if it is as you found then that wouldn't help mine either, some of my plants are like hay until the last 2 weeks and an early finish would slaughter them, this is a large part of my reason for this, as I have said, I was using Boost before I had the plants I run now, as a result I have only ever seen them with Boost (and Molasses) in their diet, I thought it would be good to see how they could be doing instead.

 

[MrBomDiggitty]

What's next? Boost vs. Miracle Grow?

 

[*mistress*]

ironically, can find out a lot more about feed (animal) grade molasses than food (human) grade molasses...

Crude protein - an estimate of the total protein content of a feed determined by analyzing the nitrogen content of the feed and multiplying the result by 6.25. Crude protein includes true protein and other nitrogen-containing substances such as ammonia, amino acids, nitrates.

feed grade has terms that can be defined via feed industry data. crude protein on the feed grade in imagination is

5.5/6.25=0.88

or, the ~1% nitrogen...

the 1-0-5 npk ratios of molasses found on net. it seems to be kind of slow-release in the solution/media. requires external catalysts to become nitrogen...

this may be helpful:
http://rcrec-ona.ifas.ufl.edu/mol.pdf

enjoy your garden!

 

[darookie2000]

ironically, can find out a lot more about feed (animal) grade molasses than food (human) grade molasses...

feed grade has terms that can be defined via feed industry data. crude protein on the feed grade in imagination is

5.5/6.25=0.88

or, the ~1% nitrogen...

the 1-0-5 npk ratios of molasses found on net. it seems to be kind of slow-release in the solution/media. requires external catalysts to become nitrogen...

this may be helpful:
http://rcrec-ona.ifas.ufl.edu/mol.pdf

enjoy your garden!

Lol, of course! The federal government cares much more about what we feed animals that what we feed ourselves!

 

[*mistress*]

What's next? Boost vs. Miracle Grow?

if grown by seasoned gardener, flushed, etc, why not make comparison?

& could a group of 100 testers really distinguish between the 2?

here is just 1 example of a mix based on miracle grow:
4,000 watts 64 plants, Ready Set Grow

why not test the hallowed nute industry?

if can go entire season w/out ever going to hydro/garden store, why not?

not stating that mg is the top of the line, but comparisons should not be limited to conventional brands/mixes, if want real field data... & accounts of results...

enjoy your garden!

 

[bonecarver_OG]

i agree everything should be tested if possible.

a few years ago i would have laughed at using Panela in my nute mix in flowering. now id feel like an idiot if id forget to buy it.

life changes, one has to be prepared to have an open mind and learn, and i think any kind of progress is progress

so go for it

peace!

 

[Hazy Lady]

Miracle Gro, bless 'em. There is no quicker acting foliar feed than 15-30-15 MG to green up your MJ. I have no problem using it on veggers.
OK, the N problem from the other day has not progressed and I have upped the A&B a touch* so that should be fine now.

I noticed last night a new problem I am not altogether sure of what this is?, I don't know if it is really clear? but these marks are bronze in colour and looks for all the world like eye shadow, a light streak of bronze eye shadow, as of this morning it was on 2 separate plants, 1 of the A's - no Boost, no Molasses, and 1 of the C's - Molasses eater. No other sign of a problem. I don't think it is heat, they are all well away from the lamp, lights-on temps are 74f, lights off 68f there is a fan between the tops and the lamp so no hot spots, also, the uppermost parts are not affected - yet!, the bronze leaves start around 2" from the top and go down for the next 4 inches. Please have a look and if you can diagnose it that would be super
Oh yes, the *, Obviously I don't really want to be increasing the N right now but it IS still early and it is a touch, 5 ml of each extra per 10 lts for a total of 25ml of each per 10, it isn't pushing it by any stretch.

Sample leaf

 

[bonecarver_OG]

to me it does NOT look like N-def at the moment.

N def would affect the leaf as a whole, a gradual lighter tone of green that goes to more yellow.

above it looks to me like there is intervenal chlorosis. this is usually due cal mag issues.

you can cut down on the AB and give a shot of calmag.


n defiancy usually shows in the bottom of the plant since its a easilyl moveable part of the plant, while Calmag issues are usually as u describe from a few fingers down from the top downwards. as the case goes worse usually the whole plant will get affected eventually.

imho

peace

this is from a maxyield article...

Calcium Deficiencies
Calcium deficiency symptoms appear initially as generally stunted plant growth. Necrotic (dead) leaf margins on young leaves or necrosis around the base of the leaves is very common. In its advanced stage it can eventual lead to death of the terminal buds and root tips. Generally the new growth of the plant is affected first. The mature leaves may be affected if the problem persists. Cupping of mature leaves is a tell tale sign of a calcium deficiency.

Classic symptoms of a calcium deficiency include blossom-end rot of tomato (death of the end part of the fruits), tip burn of lettuce, blackheart of celery and death of the growing regions in many plants. All these symptoms show soft, dead necrotic tissue at rapidly growing areas.

Generally, a calcium deficiency is related to poor translocation of calcium to the tissue rather than a low external supply of calcium. Calcium has a very low mobility in plants which makes this one of the most common problems in a garden. Calcium may be available externally but it is in the wrong form for the plant to absorb readily.

Magnesium Deficiencies
Deficiencies typically occur with the middle or lower leaves. The most common symptoms are interveinal chlorosis or yellowing between leaf veins, which stay green, giving a marbled appearance. Necrosis, or death, can develop in the highly chlorotic tissue. The symptoms generally start with mottled chlorotic areas developing in the interveinal tissue and spreads to large dead spots. This begins with older leaves and spreads to younger growth.

Magnesium deficiencies are usually confused with a virus, or natural aging in the case of tomato plants. In its advanced form, a magnesium deficiency may superficially resemble a potassium deficiency. The tell tale sign of a magnesium deficiency is the interveinal chlorosis produces a raised puckered surface, with the top of the puckers progressively going from chlorotic to necrotic tissue. Other symptoms of this deficiency are fruits and vegetables tend to be small and woody while flowers never develop to their full potential.

Roy Gomez understands the important role of magnesium and states, “As aging adults, it is not uncommon for people to become magnesium deficient. There are multiple sources of magnesium supplements in the health food market. I believe that magnesium is an important element to supplement in an aging plants life. Certain plants consume large amounts of magnesium during the early and late flowering stages. If magnesium deficiencies occur in plants, it causes late-season yellowing in leaf veins and older leaves.”

How Cal-Mag Deficiencies Occur
The most common cause of calcium and magnesium deficiencies is lockout. When there is too much cal-mag already in the untreated source water being used as the base to the nutrient formula it can cause the good cal-mag in the plant food to become unavailable. Think about it this way - the cal-mag in your tap water has a large molecular structure and is very immobile in that form. These molecules try to go through your roots and up into the plant where they can be used. The molecules are too large to be absorbed efficiently and end up accumulating on the outside of the roots. This causes a road block that can lock out the good forms of cal-mag you are trying to feed them. Other key components of the nutrient formula can also be locked out and the problems escalate until your plants appear to be stunted and yellow and growth crawls to a halt.

There are ways to mitigate this problem. Fulvic and humic acid, as well as living beneficial biology, can help break down the relatively immobile cal-mag in your tap water and allow it to become more available to the plants. This process takes time and is not guaranteed to free up all the cal-mag in an efficient manner. The whole idea behind hydroponics is to minimize your time and maximize your harvests. There is no time to wait around for the cal-mag to be made available. What the plants need is cal-mag that they can readily absorb and use immediately.

Another way to acquire deficiencies is by not adding enough cal-mag to your nutrient formula when using purified water. Reverse Osmosis gives you the purest water possible and so you have to add the correct amount of cal-mag to ensure you have the proper feed solution. The best way to start your nutrient formula is to begin with purified water, add 50 to 250ppm cal-mag, and then add your additional macro- and micronutrients. The amount of cal-mag you add depends on the variety of plants, what stage in their life they are in, and the media you are using.

Certain growing media, such as coco coir, requires additional calcium due its cation exchange capacity properties. Growing in coco requires additional calcium, especially in the first few weeks of the plants life.

the last red centense is the sole reason i make sure i use more tap water during veg.

normally i never have to ad calmag.