Breeding with wild hemp

[BudBag]

Here in the midwest US I have walked past plants that are 10' tall, and have buds the size of a mans lower leg. I dont know what this means in technical lingo, but it cant all be bad.

I thought that I would add some give off a very skunky smell others give off no odor. The one thing that is guaranteed is there will be a 1000 seeds in that giant bud.

 

[elmanito]

Second generation of hemp seeds of an Ukrainian sativa is harvested this time crossed with Danish Gold F3.We will see about the germination if these seeds contain terminator genes.

Namaste

 

[danut]

Hemp germ test has two of 10 seeds sprouting so far. 48 hours.

 

[Olifant]

Personally, I wouldn't waste my money on TLC tests for CBD use. I'd simply use the Beam test using potassium hydroxide test with a colorimeter or even a couple of color reference sample from a paint store. It's a lot cheaper and easier. Also, don't use those measuring caps with the TLC tests, use a real highly accurate scale to determine mass. You can't measure the mass of a plant sample by using volume like those tests provide, it doesn't work.

If the original hypothesis was that THC provides some protections to the seeds which CBD does not, this is simply unproven conjecture. CBD to THC ratio is completely unaffected by UV, period. Yes, highland strains do tend to be more potent, but this could be from a number of factors that have nothing to do with the plants evolving to protect their seeds from UV, perhaps cooler temps with better quality light.

 

[elmanito]

Olifant

All the medical companies which are involved in medicinal herbs cultivation and production are using a TLC-test for identification of the herbs, not for determining mass.

Namaste

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

The high potency strains in Colombia, Mexico are from ancestors which were brought from India, not the hemp varieties from Columbus.

just a side note: when considering the origin of drug-strains in Colombia, we cannot forget Africa as a source as well.

nice thread btw!

peace all

 

[elmanito]

just a side note: when considering the origin of drug-strains in Colombia, we cannot forget Africa as a source as well.

South-African strains were originally from India brought by the contract workers from India.Ghana and i think also Gambia has been importing strains from Colombia in the past.Actually what we should do is a DNA-test to investigate the origin of the strains, but i still think that most landraces which are potent were from India, Nepal region.

Namaste

 

[Kaneh]

Interesting thread everyone!

On Finola-homepage there's some rants by breeder Dr. J.C. Callaway.
http://www.finola.com/
Check "Noise fron the north" -links. It's mainly about controlling THC levels of hemp in EU.

Also lots of info to anyone interested in this strain.

You can also buy seeds, 8€/kg.
Pretty cheap strain compared to some fancy cross from someones basement selling for 300€/10 seeds. LOL
(Dr. J.C. Callaway is also laughing at us in his rants, for paying these crazy prices for invidual seeds)

DOES ANYONE KNOW FOR SURE IF THERE'S FINOLA IN LOWRYDER???
...And I mean FACT, not rumours or guesses...

 

[danut]

Personally, I wouldn't waste my money on TLC tests for CBD use. I'd simply use the Beam test using potassium hydroxide test with a colorimeter or even a couple of color reference sample from a paint store. It's a lot cheaper and easier.

Do you have any more details on this test?

tia

 

[danut]

Hemp germ test has two of 10 seeds sprouting so far. 48 hours.

Seven of ten at 72 hours.

We're a go for Finola.

 

[Olifant]

South-African strains were originally from India brought by the contract workers from India.Ghana and i think also Gambia has been importing strains from Colombia in the past.Actually what we should do is a DNA-test to investigate the origin of the strains, but i still think that most landraces which are potent were from India, Nepal region.

Namaste

Very astute observation, a significant portion of tropical cannabis heirlooms seem to be traceable back to the indian subcontinent in some way in the last 200 years. I do wonder in some cases though that there wasn't some hemp derived breeding in parts of Mexico. Hemp two to three hundred years ago was a completely different thing than it is today. Although still low THC, due to not being bred for recreational or medicinal properties, it did sometimes have the potential to produce THC in psychoactive quantities when derived from non-western european seed stocks. In places like Baja, Mexico, I would imagine Spain would have been smart enough to not use the tropically incompatible western European hemp. The yields they produced imply something of lower latitude origin, but this is still largely a guess on my part. The spanish did note that some of the indigenous laborers in the hemp fields in baja, california were using the hemp they had introduced as a psychoactive. The earlier Mexican drug cannabis is the only example I know of which has any real likelihood of being hemp derived, and this was probably gradually replaced from the late 50's through the seventies by more potent indian subcontinent derived stocks, perhaps mostly from Nepal, the benchmark of high quality resin at the time, by beatniks, hippies and the like intent on making money with higher quality commercial crops.

I go back and forth on how much genetic material came from Africa to Colombia versus how much went back to Africa from Colombia. The Dutch were trading slaves from regions familiar with the plant's psychoactivity from the Dutch Antilles, and considering the presence of Baobab trees planted in the Caribbean by slaves who had brought the seeds with them hundreds of years ago, one can't help but wonder about Cannabis seeds being brought as well. The Dutch Antilles aren't too far to Cartagena to think of seed making it to Colombia long ago, but still is just a guess. I'm sure that Colombian seed has made it to western Africa to further complicate ad obscure what actually happened. Anyways, sorry to interrupt, great thread.

El Manito, I do think you should try the Beam test for CBD, as it is a lot cheaper than the TLC cannabinoid tests. You may be using a cheaper TLD method though. If so, could you tell us where you are getting your TLC tests?

Baobabs are seen in many countries around the world. Apart form those which have been planted by man in the regions where they are native, or wild-sown- Many too were taken with African slaves to countries where man and trees have now been given their freedom such as the Caribbean and Tropical Asia. St Croix once tasty Danish sugar island and now a prosperous member of the Us Virgin Island has more baobabs then any other island in the Caribbean. In the 17th and 18th centuries the British and Danish planters on St Croix grew fat on African Slaves and plantation sugar. When the wind blew from Senegal and Guinea it brought shiploads of African slaves and somehow the African Baobabs came too. According to Michael Adanson it was an African custom to carry seeds as emergency rations for a journey (Pakenham, 2004)

These centuries old Baobab trees dropped or planted by the hands of slaves from Africa to the caribbean and still living to this day are a site to behold. Some African customs surrounding these trees manages to stay intact across the ocean and still survive in the caribbean to this day.

 

[Azra'eil]

hello, im interested too about TLC technik since a few times, but the site http://www.cannalytics.com/ who sell the kits is down, i dont know why, its strange, however the laboratory who make it have a site with a contact page http://www.alphanova.nl/?pagina=index&cat=5 here a interview with a man from alphanova or cannalytics http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXFZbkO1r0I and i find a headshop/smartshop in uk who sell it http://www.paradox.co.uk/acatalog/Cannalyse-Fingerprint-THC-Test-Kit.html

i hope it helps
greats

az

 

[Olifant]

Do you have any more details on this test?

tia

a 5% solution of KOH in alcohol reacts with CBD to produce a violet color of which the color intensity is dependent on the quantity of CBD, THC and CBN on the other hand produce no color.

You make a solvent extract using a standardized technique and quantity of plant material and evaporate the solvent and low boiling point oils through a steam bath taking note of the yield of oil from the sample. You then take .2ml of the remaining oil and place it on to a plate or test tube and add 4 drops of 5% potassium hydroxide in alcohol (5g powdered KOH in 95ml of alcohol) to the residue and wait a few minutes. You then take note of the color using a color swatches, or a colorimeter. You now know the resin content from the mass of oil produced by the sample, and although not very accurate, you know whether CBD is present and have a very rough idea of it's concentration.

 

[Azra'eil]

very interesting olifant, i feel you work in the field of chemistry to have these knowledges ? can you explain a little more about solvent extract using a standardized technique please ? im a bit bad at chemistry...thanks
greats

az

 

[Olifant]

Butane and Iso alcohol extraction methods described elsewhere on icmag should work just fine. By standardized, I mean to just use the same qty of solvent, mass of plant material, and keep the solvent type, purity, and temperature the same each time. This step isn't necessary for qualitative results really, determining whether or not CBD is present, but is necessary to have an idea of quantitative results, to get some degree of accuracy as far as how much CBD is present.

 

[elmanito]

Olifant
Thnx for your input in this discussion.I will certainly try it the Beam test in a short time after the harvest.What i read about this test is that it is only for CBD and CBC, but not for THC, THCV and CBN.Like you said it is a cheap test, so i will give it a try.

I cant find any documents about Cannabis cultivation on the Dutch Antilles.Cannabis was cultivated by the Dutch on the East Indies, even Coca was cultivated on Java, but so far as i know not on the Dutch Antilles.

I know about the Baobab tree.It grows also in Australia.Fruit contains a high amount of Vitamin C, which is also preserved for a long time.

Namaste :friends:

 

[Olifant]

It is interesting that you mentioned Java coca, as the subspecies of Coca introduced to Java by the Dutch was primarily from samples the Dutch had collected from the Caribbean mountains of Colombia.

To find the original references of slave use of cannabis even where it;s use in history is well established like Brazil without using a bibiliography of more mainstream or easly accessible literature require the skill of a professional historical researcher, so you can imagine finding similar information for places like the Dutch Antilles and Colombia would also require the same. It took me many years to find reliable references to slaves in the southern US smoking hemp products. However, I don't think it unreasonable to assume that if Angolan slaves traded by Portugal brought cannabis seed, the Dutch slaves some of which were also taken from Angola may have done the same. Before Colombia outlawed the plant in 1928, there's virtually no mention of cannabis in the country, which isn't too surprising as it's use probably wasn't given a second thought since it was a legal climate and it's use was limited to the poor and illiterate. If you get ahold of and read, "Plantas Cultivadas y animales domesticos en America Equinoccial, plantas introducidas" written by Victor Patiño, the case is made for Cannabis' introduction to present day colombia from the Antilles and spread from the Magdalena river valley. Of course, cannabis came to the more European Andean regions of present day colombia from Panama most likely, and this arrival probably represents when cannabis the period in the late 1940's when Colombians started seeing newspaper reports about Cannabis, 20 years after it was first prohibited. During this period, it's use started to explode among European descended Colombians for the first time. I think of this as similar to what happened in the united states, where aside from the occasional fearmongering, the plant was never a front page news item until middle class white children started using it in the mid/late 60's and 70's. For those first 20 years after it was prohibited in Colombia, it was strictly an Indian, Mestizo and Black issue, so it was simply dismissed and not written about.

I have another cheap and very rapid technique for getting quantitative THC test results that I'm playing around with, and the BEAM test imo is comparable to TLC for CBD testing. I would be wary about breeding lines for high THCV, as it blocks the effects of endocannabinoids and I worry about long term heavy use of this particular cannabinoid causing some of the health effects that cb1 antagonists such as Rimonabant posses, such as increasing the rate of progression of cancers, degenerative nervous conditions, or diabetes and the peripheral neuropathy associated with it. I wouldn't touch THCV with a ten foot pole personally. The other problem is breeding for propyl cannabinoids without any way of quantitative measurement is difficult, simply determining whether or not it is present isn't enough, and I wouldn't trust TLC for giving a consistent measurement of cannabinoids in ratio to each other.

 

[mrred]

here a website on homemade beam analyzer http://www.volunteerlabrat.com/default.html?goto=beamanalyzer.html

would something like this do any good? http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/multimedia/2008/12/gallery_microscope_phone

 

[elmanito]

The Coca plant which was grown on Java was another species than the Coca from Peru.Latin name of the Coca from Java was Erythroxylum novogratense which had a higher content of cocaine.In the mid 1920s the Dutch had 80% of the cocaine worldmarket in their hands and the factory Nederlandse Cocaine Fabriek (Dutch Cocaine Factory) was established in Amsterdam.

In the middle ages the Dutch took the slaves from Ghana to Surinam, but if the ship was not full enough they sailed to Angola to take more slaves.I cant find any document about cannabis use among slaves in Surinam.Its hard to find any good document about this.Strange is also why the Dutch never cultivated any Cannabis in Surinam.The climate is perfect.Only i know about Colombia that the US government took Cannabis from the Himalaya to Colombia for developing medical strains in the 1930s.I have no knowledge of the history before that.

I agree that you have to be care ful with THCV.As CBD it is an antagonist of THC like you said earlier, but it could be useful for decreasing the appetite, but the THC much be higher in the plant than THCV.To much THCV makes you nausea, what i experienced or you will have the same side effect as Rimonabant!

Like i said earlier the TLC is only for identification of the cannabinoids, not for quantitative analysing.What is the other test you are talking about????I'm curious.

Namaste

 

[CANNACO-OP]

I am still interested in trying to breed with the wild stuff. Thanks again for complining info for us all out there!!!

here is a progression of the natural or wild hemp by us: