NO RUNOFF GROW
- Thread starter whodi
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W
Weedman Herb
whodi ... Props on this experiment ... your stuff is looking heavy, healthy, And tasty. I didn't mean that comment as a diss to Tip ... just curious as to the wattage in there ...
Yea, I dont know, New ferts? new strain?. We are having to shut the incomming fan and one bulb off for about half a day due to the excessive heat. So I suspect this and other things contribute to the slower than normal growth. I am currently adjusting the timers 2 hrs a dat to get the cycle to run at night so hopefully that will help things out. we will see. 2000w
nice looking flowers!
@ that stage of maturity, can just pull off those dead fan leaves. that will promote the smaller leaves next to the developed/ing fruit to draw all the n from them too. forces them to use all reserves.
usually stop all water+h202 here ~3 days remaining. dries up media and may influence plant to protect fruit w/ glands.
enjoy your garden!
T
TwinTurboGuy
I've done a run with coco with no runoff and I hold true to the statement that runoff isn't necessary.
However, be aware that with no runoff, there is less room for mistake. I've encountered N toxicity problems but this is due to missing a day of watering and letting it dry a tad bit.
If you're a no runoff kind of guy, always keep it wet! Even one day can be devastating with the salt build up. You can see pics in my gallery of the infamous rams claw leaves.
I noticed this because I ran a grow with runoff, and even if it did dry a bit, the plants would still be hungry. Also, I find feeding every other watering gives the plants exactly enough. And a simple ph water feed between feedings makes them happy.
However, be aware that with no runoff, there is less room for mistake. I've encountered N toxicity problems but this is due to missing a day of watering and letting it dry a tad bit.
If you're a no runoff kind of guy, always keep it wet! Even one day can be devastating with the salt build up. You can see pics in my gallery of the infamous rams claw leaves.
I noticed this because I ran a grow with runoff, and even if it did dry a bit, the plants would still be hungry. Also, I find feeding every other watering gives the plants exactly enough. And a simple ph water feed between feedings makes them happy.
hi whodi, i'm just a noob here so i can't comment on what is best or not but TT Guy's comment makes the most sense to me. doesn't waste any nutes and flushes out any salts every other day with ph'd water. what's not to like about that? btw, love yer garden.
shine on ***/\~~~
shine on ***/\~~~
have run coco w/ no run-off ever being dumped. un-dumped run-off gets wicked up to media in upper bucket, via nylon rope. plant will never be in desire for moisture. no need to create drought, as long as water is delivered to bottom of container, and/or spread in media.
have also ran simple maidrubber tub/tote w/ absolutely no drainage holes. judged watering by weight of tub.
never observed a single day of no watering causing devastating damage. if a plant cannot w/stand a day w/ out water, is eliminated from garden as non-drought-resistant. they should be able to go @ least 3 days, in any system; or not worth having genetics or system.
keeping water available 24/7 is desirable. fail-safe can be wicks, but selecting for genetics that can thrive under adverse conditions is best for any garden method. eliminate all others.
enjoy your garden!
thats crazy, why would you cull a high yielding high potencey plant just because it needs more water? shit my grom from greyskull needs water more than any strain I have seen and I will be damned if I cull her just because she's thirsty.
why would inferior genetics be culled? do seed runs periodically, so have many cultivars to select from. many variations, lines, etc. actually enjoy variation; but have p1+f1 so no issue re-getting pheno(s).
in that particular example, plant was in this state:
TwinTurboGuy said:
in a no-run-off system. so no, would not keep such a plant for another round, except as novelty, IF had outstanding fruit. would not keep a plant that had issues in any system in 1 day. plant should be able to survive @ least 3-7 days on its own -from pure vigor, or will to stay alive, while other may droop over and perish.
this is the art of selection...
last imaginary run had albino that was absolutely coated in reproductive glands, comparable to nom's in photo of mo. contests.
took several cutting, but was so little chrlorophyll that cuttings actually turned away from both floros and natural sunlight.
plant was done-done @ 6 1/2 weeks, all amber, etc. not big yi.ld, but dont really care about yi.ld in this fictitious garden. only quality of fruit.
plant and all clones were eliminated. end.
have old, hardy mum that survived many tests of time. actually was discovered by fellow, in seedling tray - after being buried in coco for 3-4 days. surivived drought after 'nother fellow failed to water when gone for weeks. but found several new x's that are superior. f1 vigor replaces old reliable in imagination. have offspring of pheno. end.
seedlings that show deficiencies, are too slow to develop in veg, or too slow to show sex, or cant figure out sex=all eliminated.
just couple examples.
only have so many steps on planet, want to see as much variation as possible. did seed run w/ several+several purported 'elite' tomatoes. am ruthless w/ selection.
fairly easy to do seed run and harvest xxx+ seeds. if really into 'elite' genetics, have to practice harsh task of destroying specimens that meet criteria for extinction.
each gardeners' criteria will vary. for instance, yiel. is of no concern here - it is paramount in others. relative.
your strain is good enough to you that you preserve it. that poster was having issues w/ growing in a certain way. dont know if poster would or would not preserve cut after suffering deficiencies + drought. if had more beans, why not search for pheno that had same qualities w/out deficiecy+drought issue?
dont know if dealing w/ same context in this sidebar, but would still eliminate such an inferior specimen.
enjoy your garden!
your examples are good, you stated in the other post that a plant that couldent surrvive 3 or 4 days without water was culled, seems lazy to me. if they need water give it to them, if they don't fine, dont water them. give them what they need, varity is deffinatly good and I run 7 defferent strains, all hand picked for yield, high, bag appeal. I have culled plants that are called elites, and kept ones that are unheard of just because they produce what I want. to cull a plant just because it needs water doesent make sense.
though still out of context, 'lazy' may be one way to term an opinion of a protocol for elimination. actually, in general horticultural, could be also termed artificial selection for drought-resistant plants.
go right ahead and maintain genetics that require water daily. prefer much more to have drought-resistant bred strains that can survive issues. know they can survive issues because inflict stress to determine if dom-goddess.
perhaps, could seem not to 'make sense' to keep plants that topple in 24 hrs. either/or. different criteria. actually cross in different directions; but across many varieties (no #'s), always select strongest over weakest.
in equation formed above, gardener A has plant that is 'elite' that can potentially die in 24 hrs, in garden B, plants that have died in 24 hrs have been eliminated. over a gen or 2, will develop drought-resistant plants of equal 'elite'[ness], (whatever that is, fancy names included). though they are not equal genetically, after those gens, IF, we are discussing breeding in a defined direction - as opposed to just finding sport phenos....the drought-resistant genes are clearly superior to the non-drought-resistant plant. group A will die in 24 hrs, if not studiously watered, while group B will survive easily.
again, either/or. whatever makes your garden enjoyable for you! go for it!
enjoy your garden!
go right ahead and maintain genetics that require water daily. prefer much more to have drought-resistant bred strains that can survive issues. know they can survive issues because inflict stress to determine if dom-goddess.
perhaps, could seem not to 'make sense' to keep plants that topple in 24 hrs. either/or. different criteria. actually cross in different directions; but across many varieties (no #'s), always select strongest over weakest.
in equation formed above, gardener A has plant that is 'elite' that can potentially die in 24 hrs, in garden B, plants that have died in 24 hrs have been eliminated. over a gen or 2, will develop drought-resistant plants of equal 'elite'[ness], (whatever that is, fancy names included). though they are not equal genetically, after those gens, IF, we are discussing breeding in a defined direction - as opposed to just finding sport phenos....the drought-resistant genes are clearly superior to the non-drought-resistant plant. group A will die in 24 hrs, if not studiously watered, while group B will survive easily.
again, either/or. whatever makes your garden enjoyable for you! go for it!
enjoy your garden!
T
TwinTurboGuy
I did seed runs on my coco grows and I am very selective with my genetics. Of course, there are a few phenotypes that can withstand some dry periods, and I don't purposely drought my plants for experimental or selective purposes. It has more to do with the amount of nutes each one can uptake.
For example, I was growing blue sat X og kush and it was a very very light feeder as oppose to a super silver haze that I grew next to it. I was doing the no runoff method, and the bluesatXogkush ended up with the nitrogen toxicity.
So why didn't the super silver haze meet the same fate? Simply put, if coco is left dry, more available nutes are present in the media. Genetically, the super silver haze I had was a nute hog. Even though it can thrive happily without so much nutes, it just wasn't as sensitive as anything along DJ Short's line of genetics. But overall, it doesn't judge that the genetics are flawed in anyway. Actually, the blueberry heritage made it some fantastic smoke.
Here is another take on it that most growers must know if they go with the no runoff method. Ever tried mixing nutes and letting it bubble and sit out for too long? Half the water has evaporated and the EC/PPM has risen. Now obviously the volume of water and the EC/PPM are relative to each other in some way. Now try looking at the level of saturation with the water and nutes in your coco.
For example, I mix and feed my girls 700-800 ppm of coco a+b. Through I did have some results letting the coco dry a tad bit when I do runoff watering, i noticed that its completely different with no runoff watering techniques. As a result, I did a flush and ph check, and to no surprise, I found the run off at 1400-1500ppms. If water is evaporated from the media or dries a tad bit, the nutrient availability is extremely high.
Learning from my mistakes, the key to success with no runoff is to keep the ratio of water the same as when you fed them. The volume of water is extremely important when you're not planning on running off. So that's why I'm just advising others to stay on the safe side and water more often or always keep it as wet as when you first watered it. It becomes very vulnerable to salt buildup so a simple nute-free ph water between waterings is not a bad idea. Since there is no runoff, the excess nutes from the previous feed isn't going anywhere.
For example, I was growing blue sat X og kush and it was a very very light feeder as oppose to a super silver haze that I grew next to it. I was doing the no runoff method, and the bluesatXogkush ended up with the nitrogen toxicity.
So why didn't the super silver haze meet the same fate? Simply put, if coco is left dry, more available nutes are present in the media. Genetically, the super silver haze I had was a nute hog. Even though it can thrive happily without so much nutes, it just wasn't as sensitive as anything along DJ Short's line of genetics. But overall, it doesn't judge that the genetics are flawed in anyway. Actually, the blueberry heritage made it some fantastic smoke.
Here is another take on it that most growers must know if they go with the no runoff method. Ever tried mixing nutes and letting it bubble and sit out for too long? Half the water has evaporated and the EC/PPM has risen. Now obviously the volume of water and the EC/PPM are relative to each other in some way. Now try looking at the level of saturation with the water and nutes in your coco.
For example, I mix and feed my girls 700-800 ppm of coco a+b. Through I did have some results letting the coco dry a tad bit when I do runoff watering, i noticed that its completely different with no runoff watering techniques. As a result, I did a flush and ph check, and to no surprise, I found the run off at 1400-1500ppms. If water is evaporated from the media or dries a tad bit, the nutrient availability is extremely high.
Learning from my mistakes, the key to success with no runoff is to keep the ratio of water the same as when you fed them. The volume of water is extremely important when you're not planning on running off. So that's why I'm just advising others to stay on the safe side and water more often or always keep it as wet as when you first watered it. It becomes very vulnerable to salt buildup so a simple nute-free ph water between waterings is not a bad idea. Since there is no runoff, the excess nutes from the previous feed isn't going anywhere.
there's been a couple of times where i couldnt water every day, so the coco dried up a good bit. I did not see any negative signs from the plants when this happened. I resumed watering as normal. I have a couple of strains that are also pretty sensitive to nitrogen and they haven't showed any negative signs once, this whole grow.
I've been watering with the h3ad/rez recipe and they have handled it very well all the way through the grow. It handled the kool bloom very well, also. The only thing about doing a no-runoff with coco is that you have to flush longer. say 2 weeks of water only. You also should probably drop the nitrogen after week 4-5 if you dont already, at least in half.
I don't think you should water with water only ever so often either. (like once weekly, etc) Only time i give straight water is at the end when flushing.
They've handled daily waterings with full strength h3ad/rez recipie perfectly fine. No reason it shouldn't work for others that are interested.
My room temp is always a nice 70-80f. If you experience nitrogen toicity from a no run-off grow it's because your plants are too small, your temps are too cool, and/or your nutrients are too strong for a no-runoff grow.
I've been watering with the h3ad/rez recipe and they have handled it very well all the way through the grow. It handled the kool bloom very well, also. The only thing about doing a no-runoff with coco is that you have to flush longer. say 2 weeks of water only. You also should probably drop the nitrogen after week 4-5 if you dont already, at least in half.
I don't think you should water with water only ever so often either. (like once weekly, etc) Only time i give straight water is at the end when flushing.
They've handled daily waterings with full strength h3ad/rez recipie perfectly fine. No reason it shouldn't work for others that are interested.
My room temp is always a nice 70-80f. If you experience nitrogen toicity from a no run-off grow it's because your plants are too small, your temps are too cool, and/or your nutrients are too strong for a no-runoff grow.
S
SoFreshnSOGreen
i've been looking around, i cant go hydro b/c my ambient temps are just too high and budget just too tight. so i'm thinking some simple coco setup - and i'm really enjoying this thread with a few others, muchly inspirational. any recommends for teh newbie? [8-10 inch clones 2-5 inches roots 400hps {horti} 175mh]
water them with 3ml GH micro and 4.5ml GH bloom for a week or two, then you should be OK to start using 6ml micro / 9ml bloom
G
Guest 18340
LOL! So fuckin true.
stoneypenguin
Member
Hey Whodi, any new pics?
I had bad run last time because I was watering till runoff in pots that where too big (5gallon). This run Im just feeding daily without runoff and keeping everything wet in 3-4 gallon pots and doing much better. Haven't seen any signs of over watering or any problems with keeping the coco so wet. IMO its not so much run off or no run off that matters, but feeding your plants the right amount at the right times based on their root size, pot size, and coco mixture.
I had bad run last time because I was watering till runoff in pots that where too big (5gallon). This run Im just feeding daily without runoff and keeping everything wet in 3-4 gallon pots and doing much better. Haven't seen any signs of over watering or any problems with keeping the coco so wet. IMO its not so much run off or no run off that matters, but feeding your plants the right amount at the right times based on their root size, pot size, and coco mixture.
~fvk~
the Lion is going Guerrilla...
Sorry to hijack this thread, great job Whodi btw, but this post is very ironic. Check out the Tokers Den...
