Haze lighting question.....
- Thread starter S_a_H
- Start date
C
Cinderella99
Raco...I know you're here primarily to debate the origins/historical interpretations/incarnations of Haze (sheesh, sometimes you guys remind me of a couple a dinosaurs fighting over the same watering hole 
, but please check out my question in the below OT1/C99 thread. Thanks.
, but please check out my question in the below OT1/C99 thread. Thanks.One day Sam will set the record straight
yyy hasnt he already
If you ask me , personally I believe the MNS side of the story as far as MNS Hazes' story goes. Why
yyy caz 1 plus 1 makes 2 as ive said many times before any knowlegde of cannabis l.sativa n her history im from nyc my friends family n whole hood has spoke of frankies sinces the early 90's incense traits is staple of nyc haze frankincense n catpiss is da franks which coincidentaly sounds like haze bros haze
im very interested in o.haze hbh nn believe it or not most breeders dont realy get into to her much not much info avalable as ive asked the farm n ic members from cali/70's t give there smoke reports or best memories of her nnn a handful of responses was a surprise
reason i ask of the description from our fam/friends is to make comparisons of wats now available n wat ive experienced nn imho threw my research our nyc haze frankies is the one neville haze i also believe to hav true hbh but cross to nl
tfd o.haze i dont believe is da best representation of o.haze of 70's atleast from description n reports 70's i believe was heavy mex colom as oppose to the sweet thai nowadays
lol i dont kno bout sweet haze im from new york
soo from the info i gathered i havnt seen anything to debate or prove my points wrong i havnt tried ot but yy is it dificult to make the comparisons
i dont claim to kno anything new but proof is in da pudding n the puddin is been in my jar 4 a long time
i enjoy these convos but no ill fellin should come from our sacred plants
opinions r like assholes we all got one but facts r wat sets aparts the 2 nnn the various web sites over the years should hav enough fact n conclusion bout our o.haze .
1luvbigherb
yyy hasnt he already
If you ask me , personally I believe the MNS side of the story as far as MNS Hazes' story goes. Why
yyy caz 1 plus 1 makes 2 as ive said many times before any knowlegde of cannabis l.sativa n her history im from nyc my friends family n whole hood has spoke of frankies sinces the early 90's incense traits is staple of nyc haze frankincense n catpiss is da franks which coincidentaly sounds like haze bros haze
im very interested in o.haze hbh nn believe it or not most breeders dont realy get into to her much not much info avalable as ive asked the farm n ic members from cali/70's t give there smoke reports or best memories of her nnn a handful of responses was a surprise
reason i ask of the description from our fam/friends is to make comparisons of wats now available n wat ive experienced nn imho threw my research our nyc haze frankies is the one neville haze i also believe to hav true hbh but cross to nl
tfd o.haze i dont believe is da best representation of o.haze of 70's atleast from description n reports 70's i believe was heavy mex colom as oppose to the sweet thai nowadays
lol i dont kno bout sweet haze im from new york
soo from the info i gathered i havnt seen anything to debate or prove my points wrong i havnt tried ot but yy is it dificult to make the comparisons
i dont claim to kno anything new but proof is in da pudding n the puddin is been in my jar 4 a long time
i enjoy these convos but no ill fellin should come from our sacred plants
opinions r like assholes we all got one but facts r wat sets aparts the 2 nnn the various web sites over the years should hav enough fact n conclusion bout our o.haze .
1luvbigherb
Well,
I believe you're correct in that Nev's cuts he got from Sam are likely Mexican/Colombian (maybe S. Indian too, but I very much doubt Thai) early Haze hybrids, prolly why Sam said he gave him his worst clones, teehee. But, if you think that those or your Frankies are superior in effect to a good selection of the full Haze package including the Thai, then this is where we part ways.
The evolving ped of Nevs stock comes as no surprise, he prolly didn't even know what he had before Clarke spelled it out for him in Origins of the Species (or Crazy Dev's site if anyone remembers). No surprise either that he wanna try to evolve Sam right outa da picture all together, shame, shame, shame.
Battle of the Hazes? 2011? Oh, and bring a bucket, you'll need something to carry your head around in.
S_a_H, 400+ watts is sufficient light to run that.
I believe you're correct in that Nev's cuts he got from Sam are likely Mexican/Colombian (maybe S. Indian too, but I very much doubt Thai) early Haze hybrids, prolly why Sam said he gave him his worst clones, teehee. But, if you think that those or your Frankies are superior in effect to a good selection of the full Haze package including the Thai, then this is where we part ways.
The evolving ped of Nevs stock comes as no surprise, he prolly didn't even know what he had before Clarke spelled it out for him in Origins of the Species (or Crazy Dev's site if anyone remembers). No surprise either that he wanna try to evolve Sam right outa da picture all together, shame, shame, shame.
Battle of the Hazes? 2011? Oh, and bring a bucket, you'll need something to carry your head around in.
S_a_H, 400+ watts is sufficient light to run that.
C
Chamba
One day Sam will set the record straight.
But he already has!
Go back and read through all of his haze related threads here and you'll see for yourself...if that won't convince you, then I don't know what will and so it's probably a case of faith with you rather than facts that makes you want to believe Shanti's hearsay version.
Everyone else who has posted is simply regurgitating something they heard from someone who heard it from someone who read it somewhere online or simply read posts that came from posts that came from post and then posted it as the truth ..lol..everyone else except Sam Skunkman that is.
Sam was there living next door to the Haze Bros and later was the first to breed modern hybrids (the building blocks of all of today's strains) and then bring these to Holland, the others weren't..so believe the father of modern cannabis genetiics who is not interested in spruiking seeds and who has spelt it out several times ...or .......some misinformed guy who wasn't there (as he was probably in kindergarten at the time) and who is trying to sell seeds.
I don't know if Shanti's & Sam's original discussion is still online here..but I remember Shanti soon edited a few of his posts then keep shutup when Sam said " I was there, you weren't, these are the facts, ...you have been misinformed but that doesn't make it factual" or words to that effect.
I haven't grown out Sam's or Shanti's Haze...but I'm sure they both would have some excellent examples that would send you high and higher, spacey and spacier, up and up!....as a matter of fact, 99% of stains out there are worth smoking when grown to their potential, regardless of their hype, origins, factual, misinformed or otherwise.
Juliet:
"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."
But he already has!
Go back and read through all of his haze related threads here and you'll see for yourself...if that won't convince you, then I don't know what will and so it's probably a case of faith with you rather than facts that makes you want to believe Shanti's hearsay version.
Everyone else who has posted is simply regurgitating something they heard from someone who heard it from someone who read it somewhere online or simply read posts that came from posts that came from post and then posted it as the truth ..lol..everyone else except Sam Skunkman that is.
Sam was there living next door to the Haze Bros and later was the first to breed modern hybrids (the building blocks of all of today's strains) and then bring these to Holland, the others weren't..so believe the father of modern cannabis genetiics who is not interested in spruiking seeds and who has spelt it out several times ...or .......some misinformed guy who wasn't there (as he was probably in kindergarten at the time) and who is trying to sell seeds.
I don't know if Shanti's & Sam's original discussion is still online here..but I remember Shanti soon edited a few of his posts then keep shutup when Sam said " I was there, you weren't, these are the facts, ...you have been misinformed but that doesn't make it factual" or words to that effect.
I haven't grown out Sam's or Shanti's Haze...but I'm sure they both would have some excellent examples that would send you high and higher, spacey and spacier, up and up!....as a matter of fact, 99% of stains out there are worth smoking when grown to their potential, regardless of their hype, origins, factual, misinformed or otherwise.
Juliet:
"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."
Sam said that all the South Indian and Thai crosses were towards the end of Haze production,and that some were 50% thai, most were not.So how can a haze from 1969 be half thai,a pure strain,according to Shanti...and wtf does "colombian an "almost pure" strain mean??
But, if you think that those or your Frankies are superior in effect to a good selection of the full Haze package including the Thai, then this is where we part ways.
i dont understand wat you mean ,ive asked wit no response wats ur idea along wit the rest of the farm PLEEZ EXTENDTHIS TOO THE WHOLE CANNA COMUNITY WATS UR description of o.haze of the 70's
IME DA FRANKIES =FRANKINCENSE CATPISS SPICE is a haze bros haze i believe from first crops mex lumbo
were do i get this from huh well from description ive seen of hbh sandlewood catpiss this seems most compadable AS FOR THE HIGH WHICH IS SUBJECTIVE ANY HAZE STRAIN IVE SMOKED IN DA DAM WAS INFERIOR N NOT THE LEAST BIT INCENSE LIKE
But, if you think that those or your Frankies are superior in effect to a good selection of the full Haze package including the Thai, then this is where we part ways.
wat full haze package this is da haze brotha
as for debate som claim catpiss/incense as a haze trait of wat haze o.haze/ssh pure haze in the makeup which r the traits im most familiar wit
wtf means that the colombian was an "almost pure" strain??
fuc the pure clones yy is that soo important most of the info on this o.haze is all contradicting we kno the makeup nnn all of the experince smokers/breeders r familiar wit terpen profiles of our gentics available today especially the legendary haze yyy is this soo hard to point out hybrids/phenotypes
soo lets just work wit wat we hav put all of our purest haze avalable in a growroom nnn which is superior which is the legend that we all hear bout but never see
again
soo from the info i gathered i havnt seen anything to debate or prove my points wrong
i dont understand wat you mean ,ive asked wit no response wats ur idea along wit the rest of the farm PLEEZ EXTENDTHIS TOO THE WHOLE CANNA COMUNITY WATS UR description of o.haze of the 70's
IME DA FRANKIES =FRANKINCENSE CATPISS SPICE is a haze bros haze i believe from first crops mex lumbo
were do i get this from huh well from description ive seen of hbh sandlewood catpiss this seems most compadable AS FOR THE HIGH WHICH IS SUBJECTIVE ANY HAZE STRAIN IVE SMOKED IN DA DAM WAS INFERIOR N NOT THE LEAST BIT INCENSE LIKE
But, if you think that those or your Frankies are superior in effect to a good selection of the full Haze package including the Thai, then this is where we part ways.
wat full haze package this is da haze brotha
as for debate som claim catpiss/incense as a haze trait of wat haze o.haze/ssh pure haze in the makeup which r the traits im most familiar wit
wtf means that the colombian was an "almost pure" strain??
fuc the pure clones yy is that soo important most of the info on this o.haze is all contradicting we kno the makeup nnn all of the experince smokers/breeders r familiar wit terpen profiles of our gentics available today especially the legendary haze yyy is this soo hard to point out hybrids/phenotypes
soo lets just work wit wat we hav put all of our purest haze avalable in a growroom nnn which is superior which is the legend that we all hear bout but never see
again
soo from the info i gathered i havnt seen anything to debate or prove my points wrong
Hi all,
Hi all,
hi Colina,
Chamba,
Please lets not talk about post-editing... Sam did edit his posts in the Haze discussion (thread titled: 'Some news about SSH......and the Cup') , tried to wipe out as many of his mistakes and self contradicting info as possible when we were discussing..I was there and saw it with my own eyes, good thing I had saved all his initial replies before he edited em all. As far as I m concerned I find both stories incomplete at their best and I can clearly see
that both sides don't seem to want to talk about it much. I'm sure they have their reasons but to me it seems that either both have something to hide..or..Simply both sides don't know the whole truth and miss some info..
Since you seem to just accept all the truth as Sam tells is it to be , it would be nice to hear your opinion on the inconsistent info Sam has wrote over time, seen here below in my next post..
Hi all,
hi Colina,
Bigherb didn't ever imply that Nev did receive Haze from Sam. btw the MNS Haze definitelly has some Thai blood , you will be able to tell if you grow few of the MNS lines.Colina said:
Sam has stated that he gave Neville only one clone, his "worst one", he has stated he never gave other/more haze clones to Nev..Now, in one of his posts in the past Sam had written that it was a male clone that he gave Nev. In a different post , he had posted it was a female clone..When I asked him which one was the real case (as the info I had quoted from his old posts was clearly self contradicting) , he replied he wasn't sure whether it was a female or a male clone..Funniest thing is Sam claims he is certain to still have that specific clone up to this day..,..yet he still doesn't know the sex , male or female...Colina said:
Chamba,
Please lets not talk about post-editing... Sam did edit his posts in the Haze discussion (thread titled: 'Some news about SSH......and the Cup') , tried to wipe out as many of his mistakes and self contradicting info as possible when we were discussing..I was there and saw it with my own eyes, good thing I had saved all his initial replies before he edited em all. As far as I m concerned I find both stories incomplete at their best and I can clearly see
that both sides don't seem to want to talk about it much. I'm sure they have their reasons but to me it seems that either both have something to hide..or..Simply both sides don't know the whole truth and miss some info..
Since you seem to just accept all the truth as Sam tells is it to be , it would be nice to hear your opinion on the inconsistent info Sam has wrote over time, seen here below in my next post..
Haze clones & seeds..
Regarding the 1969 date from MNS...
Here is an old NL#5Haze pic/description from The Seed Bank - Neville:http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/TSB1990page31.jpg
Description of the NL#5 Haze from above catalog: ''Haze is a late Sativa from America widely agreed by experts to be the best pot in the world. Very popular in the 70's , it nearly became extinct in recent years as growers switched to easier varieties. We managed to salvage a few viable seeds from the last crop grown in the US, and we have used them to produce this remarkable hybrid. ''
According to Shant/MNS/Neville their Hazes come from Haze Bros '69 stock that Nev received during the '70s. Btw from info Shanti has posted on his and Nev's age on various occasions , Neville is ~49years old today. So he was ~10 years old in 1970 and ~19 years old by 1979. Like I mentioned earlier note that Shanti says that Nev received pure Haze seeds during the '70s. If so Nev would be very young at that time , under 20 years old.
According to a High Times mag interview (March '87) Nev started smoking cannabis when he was 15 years old. He started working with cannabis in a serious manner in 1980 (when he was ~20 years old) , after he stopped being a drug addict. But it is mentioned in the article that he had grown weed before as well , outdoors in Australia. So according to this HT interview Nev had grown weed in the '70s , unlike what Sam claims that he hadn't even grown weed during the '70s:
So things in the MNS story don't match here perfectly either..
Btw according to Sam Skunkman the last Haze Bros Haze crop was around 1980/early 80s: http://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1538366&postcount=60
Sam has also stated that he did have 1969 pure Haze seeds , but he said he never gave any of those to Nev. So Sam claims the existence of pure Haze '69 seeds:
Here is a post where Sam says he first gave Haze to Nev in 1984 and it was in seed form.The following year (1985) he says he also gave Nev a clone :
On top of that Sam has been proven to have posted false info as facts on strain linage again in the past , like he did with SSH.
Haze development dates..
British Hempire in his Haze research had found that the Haze development dates were '70s onwards not '69 onwards. Unfortunately BH lost all his hard drive data with all the haze research he had with all the backup info and was unable to give me the references but said he was pretty certain the dates came from Robert Clarke and Sam himself. Plus all this info is out there to be found again.Here is an old post here on IC , showing another member ,HHF, claiming the same thing, that Sam had wrote that the Haze Bros hadn't even started growing haze before 1970:
http://www.icmag.com/ic/printthread.php?t=44056&pp=15&page=4
So it becomes confusing when it comes to the first Haze development date.Too bad so much direct info was lost when certain canna sites went offline.
In other posts Sam has also stated that he gave pure Haze seeds to Neville. He has posted that , here on IC mag and before long time over CW as well:Sam_Skunkman said:
Sam_Skunkman said:
Now MNS/Neville have at least 3 pure Haze cuts (now only 2 from these 3 are alive today , one is a male , Haze'C', along the pure Haze female used in the LaNina strain).So where did these other pure haze clones come from ? It obviously wasn't from Sam, as Sam has mentioned he had given only one clone to Nev.Since Nev had more than one pure Haze clone they must have come from seeds..and depending whose story one believes, these seeds have either come from Sam's pure Haze stock that Neville received at some point, or from other stock Nev got from a different source.. Either way , Neville did work with pure Haze seeds to find/end up with his 3 pure Haze clones that he has used for breeding. So no matter where and when he got the seeds from, he did grow and worked with Haze seed , before he ended up with his very successful haze hybrids and that is an important part of the story for all to remember. That and that MNS has real Haze , Bros Haze haze genetics , even Sam has never posted anything about Neville's/Shanti's NH or SSH not having real HazeBros Haze blood.Sam_Skunkman over CW said:
Regarding the 1969 date from MNS...
Here is an old NL#5Haze pic/description from The Seed Bank - Neville:http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/TSB1990page31.jpg
Description of the NL#5 Haze from above catalog: ''Haze is a late Sativa from America widely agreed by experts to be the best pot in the world. Very popular in the 70's , it nearly became extinct in recent years as growers switched to easier varieties. We managed to salvage a few viable seeds from the last crop grown in the US, and we have used them to produce this remarkable hybrid. ''
According to Shant/MNS/Neville their Hazes come from Haze Bros '69 stock that Nev received during the '70s. Btw from info Shanti has posted on his and Nev's age on various occasions , Neville is ~49years old today. So he was ~10 years old in 1970 and ~19 years old by 1979. Like I mentioned earlier note that Shanti says that Nev received pure Haze seeds during the '70s. If so Nev would be very young at that time , under 20 years old.
According to a High Times mag interview (March '87) Nev started smoking cannabis when he was 15 years old. He started working with cannabis in a serious manner in 1980 (when he was ~20 years old) , after he stopped being a drug addict. But it is mentioned in the article that he had grown weed before as well , outdoors in Australia. So according to this HT interview Nev had grown weed in the '70s , unlike what Sam claims that he hadn't even grown weed during the '70s:
Neville in his NL#5 Haze description in the 90s catalog of The Seed Bank says that his Haze comes from seeds from the last Haze crop grown in the US. From what Neville says in the same description, that the Haze was very popular in the '70s , it means that the last Haze crop couldn't have been grown in the 60s but later on..during the '70s or later..Sam_Skunkman said:
So things in the MNS story don't match here perfectly either..
Btw according to Sam Skunkman the last Haze Bros Haze crop was around 1980/early 80s: http://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1538366&postcount=60
Sam has also stated that he did have 1969 pure Haze seeds , but he said he never gave any of those to Nev. So Sam claims the existence of pure Haze '69 seeds:
Sam has also posted more self contradicting stuff over time regarding Nev and pure Haze genetics, apart from the sex of the clone he gave Nev. In one post he says that he first showed and gave Haze genetics to Neville in 1984 , but in different posts he says that Neville didn't get Haze from Sam until 1985. Plus the form of the genetics (seed/clone) seems to be different in the different posts Sam has made over time..Sam_Skunkman said:
Here is a post where Sam says he first gave Haze to Nev in 1984 and it was in seed form.The following year (1985) he says he also gave Nev a clone :
And here is the post where Sam says he first gave Haze to Nev in 1985 , and it was seeds.:Sam_Skunkman said:
Last but not least a third post from Sam , where he mentions he first gave Haze to Nev in 1984.. :Sam_Skunkman said:
..So which one was the real case, 1984 or 1985 ? In one post its 1984 and seeds with a clone given in 1985 as well.., ..and in the other post Sam says 1985 and its seeds...Sam_Skunkman said:
On top of that Sam has been proven to have posted false info as facts on strain linage again in the past , like he did with SSH.
In reality SSH was never the same strain as the NLxHaze.. SSH is [SKxHaze]x[NLxHaze] , so different to NLxHaze.. If Sam posts his speculations as real facts this may be the case with Haze info.Sam_Skunkman said:
Haze development dates..
British Hempire in his Haze research had found that the Haze development dates were '70s onwards not '69 onwards. Unfortunately BH lost all his hard drive data with all the haze research he had with all the backup info and was unable to give me the references but said he was pretty certain the dates came from Robert Clarke and Sam himself. Plus all this info is out there to be found again.Here is an old post here on IC , showing another member ,HHF, claiming the same thing, that Sam had wrote that the Haze Bros hadn't even started growing haze before 1970:
http://www.icmag.com/ic/printthread.php?t=44056&pp=15&page=4
So it becomes confusing when it comes to the first Haze development date.Too bad so much direct info was lost when certain canna sites went offline.
Hi Raco,
Now why would Shanti be describing mns Haze as having Thai/Colombian origins.. I guess that the pure Haze plants (that are 1 generation away from the original '69 stock pure Haze seeds Nev had originally received) that Shanti holds and MNS uses for breeding haze hybrids , are more Colombian/Thai expressive rather than anything else..
Probably Neville had selected towards the Thai/Colombian side when he did his initial selection with his '69 pure Haze seeds. Then according to Shanti he created pure Haze seeds himself with the selected parents from the '69 stock. He grew these seeds out and kept clones , this is where MNS pure haze clones come from. For example Haze'C' and Haze'A' male plants are both made from pure Haze parents from '69 pure Haze seedstock. Probably during this generation's clone selection he went towards the Thai/Col side again. So if Neville had in both selections worked towards the Thai/Col side of things its only natural to see in the descriptions of MNS haze hybrids Shanti correctly stating that MNS Haze is of Thai/Col origin.
Now I think I know whats with Shanti's Haze descriptions that seem to not make sense to you. Here is a quote from Shanti that kashgar had posted in the past regarding what hempy had posted in that old post of his you quoted:
Not a direct result from 2 pure sativa plants.., but a result coming from the combination of such/these two sativa lines.
It is clearly stated above that NH is a 75% sativa and the father is a pure Haze while the mother is a haze crossed to NL.According to a Shanti's recent post NH is specifically a NL#5xHaze'A' female crossed to pure Haze'C' male.
Shanti in this old post of his is describing Haze from what he sees in the pure Haze plants , being a combination of old sativas , specifically a result from the combination of a Thai strain and a Colombian dominant hybrid.
I believe that Shanti may refer to the Colombian sativa as not being pure strain, as it may look like (from growing out the progeny , which is Haze plants) that it also has other blood as well, from other different lines in it..
Now how can a breeder tell that the Colombian side specifically, is the one that is not pure , just by looking at Haze plants that are already the result of the combination of Thai and the Colombian..? Well I guess a good breeder is able to tell. Imo the 'other' blood is specifically Mexican. Maybe plus indian too , but as far as the Mexican goes I base this on the fact that recently Shanti has included in his MNS description of Haze , Mexican origins. Plus couple of years ago when I was discussing with Shanti about the origins of the pure Haze female (MNS has ,used in LaNina) if my memory serves me right we talked about this pure Haze female plant's Mexican Haze expression, Acapulco specifically. I also clearly remember reading Shanti's MNS old description over CW or Hg 420 mentioning that MNS Haze is of "mostly Thai/Col origins". Mostly not only. So I believe Shanti just says that mns Haze expresses itself as a mostly Thai/Colombian line but there is also some other genetics in the blood.
Shanti in his post writes that these 2 old sativa lines are from late 60s to early 70s.If you have time for research, it would be nice to find out when Sam first mentioned the '69 date regarding Haze development.
This above post is the earliest info from Shanti on Haze development dates (late 60s-early 70s). The oldest info from Shanti where the 60s are also mentioned. Too bad we don't have the date it was originally posted, but its from CW so its over 4-5 years old for sure. The first time I 've personally seen Sam mention '69, was only after Shanti mentioned the date.. That was here on IC. It would be really interesting to see where and when Sam first mentioned the 69 date or the '60s as far as Haze development goes.
l33t
Yes , but all..according to Sam only. No one else knows what happened (apart from the Haze Bros of course) about the Haze development..and personally I need more proof as its hard for me to take everything Sam posts to be real facts and accurate nowadays..I 'm sure you know whyRaco said:
Now why would Shanti be describing mns Haze as having Thai/Colombian origins.. I guess that the pure Haze plants (that are 1 generation away from the original '69 stock pure Haze seeds Nev had originally received) that Shanti holds and MNS uses for breeding haze hybrids , are more Colombian/Thai expressive rather than anything else..
Probably Neville had selected towards the Thai/Colombian side when he did his initial selection with his '69 pure Haze seeds. Then according to Shanti he created pure Haze seeds himself with the selected parents from the '69 stock. He grew these seeds out and kept clones , this is where MNS pure haze clones come from. For example Haze'C' and Haze'A' male plants are both made from pure Haze parents from '69 pure Haze seedstock. Probably during this generation's clone selection he went towards the Thai/Col side again. So if Neville had in both selections worked towards the Thai/Col side of things its only natural to see in the descriptions of MNS haze hybrids Shanti correctly stating that MNS Haze is of Thai/Col origin.
Now I think I know whats with Shanti's Haze descriptions that seem to not make sense to you. Here is a quote from Shanti that kashgar had posted in the past regarding what hempy had posted in that old post of his you quoted:
Shanti starts off saying that NH is a result of Thai x Colombian.Shantibaba said:
Not a direct result from 2 pure sativa plants.., but a result coming from the combination of such/these two sativa lines.
It is clearly stated above that NH is a 75% sativa and the father is a pure Haze while the mother is a haze crossed to NL.According to a Shanti's recent post NH is specifically a NL#5xHaze'A' female crossed to pure Haze'C' male.
Shanti in this old post of his is describing Haze from what he sees in the pure Haze plants , being a combination of old sativas , specifically a result from the combination of a Thai strain and a Colombian dominant hybrid.
I believe that Shanti may refer to the Colombian sativa as not being pure strain, as it may look like (from growing out the progeny , which is Haze plants) that it also has other blood as well, from other different lines in it..
Now how can a breeder tell that the Colombian side specifically, is the one that is not pure , just by looking at Haze plants that are already the result of the combination of Thai and the Colombian..? Well I guess a good breeder is able to tell. Imo the 'other' blood is specifically Mexican. Maybe plus indian too , but as far as the Mexican goes I base this on the fact that recently Shanti has included in his MNS description of Haze , Mexican origins. Plus couple of years ago when I was discussing with Shanti about the origins of the pure Haze female (MNS has ,used in LaNina) if my memory serves me right we talked about this pure Haze female plant's Mexican Haze expression, Acapulco specifically. I also clearly remember reading Shanti's MNS old description over CW or Hg 420 mentioning that MNS Haze is of "mostly Thai/Col origins". Mostly not only. So I believe Shanti just says that mns Haze expresses itself as a mostly Thai/Colombian line but there is also some other genetics in the blood.
Shanti in his post writes that these 2 old sativa lines are from late 60s to early 70s.If you have time for research, it would be nice to find out when Sam first mentioned the '69 date regarding Haze development.
This above post is the earliest info from Shanti on Haze development dates (late 60s-early 70s). The oldest info from Shanti where the 60s are also mentioned. Too bad we don't have the date it was originally posted, but its from CW so its over 4-5 years old for sure. The first time I 've personally seen Sam mention '69, was only after Shanti mentioned the date.. That was here on IC. It would be really interesting to see where and when Sam first mentioned the 69 date or the '60s as far as Haze development goes.
l33t
for all who find that makes noo sense
wats no truth in this disscussion wats lies ?
all we can do is believe or own truth /experience
but it be nice to be able to make an actual comparison too o.haze if we had a solid description of the actual o.haze, not tfd not seedman from the good old boyz from 70's our ot's who were luck enough to experience her
truth exist lies r invented
1luvbigherb
there was tlk of a radio program in Holland they split to the UK to do other things.
ive heard bout this b4 is there more info or the actual broadcasting
wats no truth in this disscussion wats lies ?
all we can do is believe or own truth /experience
but it be nice to be able to make an actual comparison too o.haze if we had a solid description of the actual o.haze, not tfd not seedman from the good old boyz from 70's our ot's who were luck enough to experience her
truth exist lies r invented
1luvbigherb
there was tlk of a radio program in Holland they split to the UK to do other things.
ive heard bout this b4 is there more info or the actual broadcasting
l33t
you quoted colina in his statement, his response was not inrelation to my statement i neva said anythin bout cuts sams gav to nev ///yyy would i wen i believe nev stock is diff from sams
the mex/lumbo is reported as first crops from hbh the traits ive reasearched of s.american strains seems to coincide most wit my nyc hazes/mns haze hybrids
your all the experts i said this many times nn its not really acknowledged
i thought you agreed that nev haze was of diff stock then sams
i understand that mns strains has thai blood as stated in description ,but wen you all the mns fam n so on describe the lumbo side of nev thats wat traits im most familiar wit that is how ikno haze
interestin i was lookin at smcg pic from bh n the foxtail on the cola wit those slender leaves looks quite similar to nevs pic ive seen
well ive got 2 sk/hz from shanti lookin well soo i tell ya my mns experince as follows
its possible that nev used a clone or seed of sams but i dont believe soo
sams should just explain his few contridicting statements i think that would clear up a whole lottaa
l33t
thx for the great info
1luvbigherb
you quoted colina in his statement, his response was not inrelation to my statement i neva said anythin bout cuts sams gav to nev ///yyy would i wen i believe nev stock is diff from sams
the mex/lumbo is reported as first crops from hbh the traits ive reasearched of s.american strains seems to coincide most wit my nyc hazes/mns haze hybrids
your all the experts i said this many times nn its not really acknowledged
i thought you agreed that nev haze was of diff stock then sams
i understand that mns strains has thai blood as stated in description ,but wen you all the mns fam n so on describe the lumbo side of nev thats wat traits im most familiar wit that is how ikno haze
interestin i was lookin at smcg pic from bh n the foxtail on the cola wit those slender leaves looks quite similar to nevs pic ive seen
well ive got 2 sk/hz from shanti lookin well soo i tell ya my mns experince as follows
its possible that nev used a clone or seed of sams but i dont believe soo
sams should just explain his few contridicting statements i think that would clear up a whole lottaa
l33t
thx for the great info
1luvbigherb
i had very very very bad luck with mrn seeds. ssh to be exact
as for the haze lighting. start off with the 400mh put thoes cfls in your bedroom or kitchen where they belong. cfls are for clones thats it. IMO...
hazes like longer nights ime. some dont flower on straight 12/12... my ssh took 3 weeks @ 10/14 to show flower sets. crappy strain though.
as for the haze lighting. start off with the 400mh put thoes cfls in your bedroom or kitchen where they belong. cfls are for clones thats it. IMO...
hazes like longer nights ime. some dont flower on straight 12/12... my ssh took 3 weeks @ 10/14 to show flower sets. crappy strain though.
l33t
much respect brotha
i didnt want anyone mistakin my input either ,i dont hav half as much experience as many of you but i do hav an educated palate nnn a burnin lov for haze n her hybrids
as ive said b4 i dont kno of a sweet fruity citrus carrot haze but i do kno that the incense spicy phenos of haze in nyc r superior too any cs bud ive smoked in the dam cant get on my level typeish
incense/catpiss/spicy/peppery/pine/floral/carrot/fruity/citrus/metallic/fuel/paint/thinner/glue , I ve seen people also mention sandalwood and cardamon.
these traits r all common amongst the nyc haze hybrids but the frankincense catpiss spice/peppery
is the father frank which i think is haze bros haze
id lov to kno more bout thai keeper pheno
thai as ikno is chocolate citrus sweet fruity
very possible sams haze is from hbh hes long time friends of them both j n r also i dont dobut that dont really care bout that caz his available stock tfd is not the best representation available
it seems sams is a liar but its interestin how i got no responses yy cant we figure out threw grow n research our selfs witout j n r or nev n sam if the hbh is related to nevs lines n sams lines
"I agree it would be really great if we could have some of the oldtimers that had first hand expeience with haze bros haze chim in and share their description of haze they had been smoking in the 70s
start the chiming
1luvbigherb
much respect brotha
i didnt want anyone mistakin my input either ,i dont hav half as much experience as many of you but i do hav an educated palate nnn a burnin lov for haze n her hybrids
as ive said b4 i dont kno of a sweet fruity citrus carrot haze but i do kno that the incense spicy phenos of haze in nyc r superior too any cs bud ive smoked in the dam cant get on my level typeish
incense/catpiss/spicy/peppery/pine/floral/carrot/fruity/citrus/metallic/fuel/paint/thinner/glue , I ve seen people also mention sandalwood and cardamon.
these traits r all common amongst the nyc haze hybrids but the frankincense catpiss spice/peppery
is the father frank which i think is haze bros haze
id lov to kno more bout thai keeper pheno
thai as ikno is chocolate citrus sweet fruity
very possible sams haze is from hbh hes long time friends of them both j n r also i dont dobut that dont really care bout that caz his available stock tfd is not the best representation available
it seems sams is a liar but its interestin how i got no responses yy cant we figure out threw grow n research our selfs witout j n r or nev n sam if the hbh is related to nevs lines n sams lines
"I agree it would be really great if we could have some of the oldtimers that had first hand expeience with haze bros haze chim in and share their description of haze they had been smoking in the 70s
start the chiming
1luvbigherb
Hi digitalhippy,
you 're the first person I 've seen say that SSH from mrnice is a crappy line.., you're sure you got the real deal? I 've read literally thousands of positive reports on this line since 2000/2001 when I first joined canna forums.Both from new growers and experienced growers/ respected members.
BTW it would be nice to see a pic from your SSH plants, so we can actually see what we are really talking about...
Haze plants can be difficult to grow if one doesn't have previous experience with such sativa lines and it can take a while till you got them fully dialed in..
I 've grown SSH from mrnice and found it to be a really great line (a great practical 50%haze hybrid), all plants were very good and all above average compared to all other strains I ve smoked/grown so far.
Btw I agree with you that hazes do like longer nights, I usually grow em with 11/13 or 10/14 throughout all flowering and get great results.
you 're the first person I 've seen say that SSH from mrnice is a crappy line.., you're sure you got the real deal? I 've read literally thousands of positive reports on this line since 2000/2001 when I first joined canna forums.Both from new growers and experienced growers/ respected members.
BTW it would be nice to see a pic from your SSH plants, so we can actually see what we are really talking about...
Haze plants can be difficult to grow if one doesn't have previous experience with such sativa lines and it can take a while till you got them fully dialed in..
I 've grown SSH from mrnice and found it to be a really great line (a great practical 50%haze hybrid), all plants were very good and all above average compared to all other strains I ve smoked/grown so far.
Btw I agree with you that hazes do like longer nights, I usually grow em with 11/13 or 10/14 throughout all flowering and get great results.
Hi bigherb,
"as ive said b4 i dont kno of a sweet fruity citrus carrot haze but i do kno that the incense spicy phenos of haze in nyc r superior too any cs bud ive smoked in the dam cant get on my level typeish"
I ve found the vegetable / carrot smell in mns hybrids, I cant remember which line it was , think it was with MH , eitherway I remember reading a post from Shanti saying to look for the carrot smell in SSH during selection.
MNS haze hybrids have incense-like spicy aromas , my NH pheno is very incense like (herbalizor describes my NH pheno as frankincense/church incense) and is also quite spicy.
Not surprisingly the high/effects match quite a lot Sam's description of old Haze Bros Haze:
I know Sam lost his best HB pure Haze clones , as he has posted that. In my experience the MNS Haze sure matches Sam's description of the best old HazeBros Haze though , and I m more than happy with the result the haze hybrid lines give.
I ve had mns hazy SSH phenos that were very catpiss / incense / peppery-spicy like and MH had similar smells in certain hazy phenos as well , though MH it was overall more fruity and sweet that SSH overall.
Shanti described to me Thai to usually be more on the Sweet-pineapple side as far as aromas go , but not always.He said that S.American lines can be more fuely like when I asked him about where fuel type smells come from in his haze hybrids.
Colombians are generally being described more as having incense like spicy aromas.
Btw when I asked Shanti on my pheno that is more incesnce like and not as peppery as other versions of MNS NH I had tried he said that the peppery comes from the NH mother's side (NL#5xHaze'A').
BTW me and others believe that Haze'A' is more Colombian expressive while HazeC is more on the Thai side.
It would be nice to devote a garden in the search for the best haze. One would need to grow all different haze lines from different sources and use large number selection , Haze grows can take a long time and they are not easy to grow either so only few people have the space/time and are willing to do such a run. As soon as I have space and time I would love to give it a try..afterall I don't care about yields anymore or fast finishing times..I ve learned from practice that good things come to those that wait and you can't get something for nothing
"as ive said b4 i dont kno of a sweet fruity citrus carrot haze but i do kno that the incense spicy phenos of haze in nyc r superior too any cs bud ive smoked in the dam cant get on my level typeish"
I ve found the vegetable / carrot smell in mns hybrids, I cant remember which line it was , think it was with MH , eitherway I remember reading a post from Shanti saying to look for the carrot smell in SSH during selection.
MNS haze hybrids have incense-like spicy aromas , my NH pheno is very incense like (herbalizor describes my NH pheno as frankincense/church incense) and is also quite spicy.
Not surprisingly the high/effects match quite a lot Sam's description of old Haze Bros Haze:
When I smoke my NH I get a strong rush , really fast too and get the flashing stars FX (btw the flashing stars effect was even more pronounced with my hazy SSH pheno than my NH. You could see the flashes very clearly for a long time after smoking with eyes wide open). Blood sugar is def lowered as well as my blood pressure lowers and within after a few tokes I get all sweaty esp very sweaty palms. Its quite tachycardic , right after a couple of puffs my heart really starts beating , I 've smoked it constantly for months without any other strain to smoke and still gives me all these effects every single time even after very heavy daily use (5-10g daily). Almost no ceiling to the high and very hard to build tolerance to.Sam_Skunkman said:
I know Sam lost his best HB pure Haze clones , as he has posted that. In my experience the MNS Haze sure matches Sam's description of the best old HazeBros Haze though , and I m more than happy with the result the haze hybrid lines give.
I ve had mns hazy SSH phenos that were very catpiss / incense / peppery-spicy like and MH had similar smells in certain hazy phenos as well , though MH it was overall more fruity and sweet that SSH overall.
Shanti described to me Thai to usually be more on the Sweet-pineapple side as far as aromas go , but not always.He said that S.American lines can be more fuely like when I asked him about where fuel type smells come from in his haze hybrids.
Colombians are generally being described more as having incense like spicy aromas.
Btw when I asked Shanti on my pheno that is more incesnce like and not as peppery as other versions of MNS NH I had tried he said that the peppery comes from the NH mother's side (NL#5xHaze'A').
BTW me and others believe that Haze'A' is more Colombian expressive while HazeC is more on the Thai side.
It would be nice to devote a garden in the search for the best haze. One would need to grow all different haze lines from different sources and use large number selection , Haze grows can take a long time and they are not easy to grow either so only few people have the space/time and are willing to do such a run. As soon as I have space and time I would love to give it a try..afterall I don't care about yields anymore or fast finishing times..I ve learned from practice that good things come to those that wait and you can't get something for nothing
C
Chamba
is this how history is written? lol
without a televised interview with Sam and Nev together with DNA testing results of the hazes in question...then I guess we will just have to rely on the facts rather than opinion. Sam, the pioneer breeder of all modern cannabis strains, was there, Neville, pioneer seed seller, bail jumper and former smack head tells Shanti, a seed maker and seller, who wasn't there his version 20 years later.
and who chucked in DEA accusations?.....lol.....come on, you can do better than that can't you ..or maybe not..lol
the sad/funny part of this is that it was actually printed in some rag and posted here and no doubt,posted and reposted everywhere online and so a new legion of idiots will base this opinion/version as the absolute gospel Truth....gawd help us!
for anyone who is interested, please do a search of Sam_Skunkman 's posts here....it's not as entertaining as Jesse/Shanti/Who ever's..but I'll take first hand witness/participant's accounts over misinformed second or third hand versions any day.
without a televised interview with Sam and Nev together with DNA testing results of the hazes in question...then I guess we will just have to rely on the facts rather than opinion. Sam, the pioneer breeder of all modern cannabis strains, was there, Neville, pioneer seed seller, bail jumper and former smack head tells Shanti, a seed maker and seller, who wasn't there his version 20 years later.
and who chucked in DEA accusations?.....lol.....come on, you can do better than that can't you ..or maybe not..lol
the sad/funny part of this is that it was actually printed in some rag and posted here and no doubt,posted and reposted everywhere online and so a new legion of idiots will base this opinion/version as the absolute gospel Truth....gawd help us!
for anyone who is interested, please do a search of Sam_Skunkman 's posts here....it's not as entertaining as Jesse/Shanti/Who ever's..but I'll take first hand witness/participant's accounts over misinformed second or third hand versions any day.
As soon as I have space and time I would love to give it a try..afterall I don't care about yields anymore or fast finishing times..I ve learned from practice that good things come to those that wait and you can't get something for nothing
all the sat lover wit the htc haze n tom hill o.haze n hbh/o.haze nev n tfd o.haze should start a thread nnn get this all settled out
i believe dubi said it best that we need to bring fresh ibl's to create new top notch strains as was o.haze created but after 40's years this particular hybrid has not been surpassed its time too unveil the truth n hopfully let the beans out the bag sams
who has contact wit sams can anyone possibly get a stock of seeds from him personally n start the show ikno the beloved dna cats r chill wit him n they say
he will never free them up.
we can get the THUNK seeds thai haze x sk#1 from him.
i will ask him for some when i see him for the Keif puffdown next week
then no reply or nothin afterward
thats experince tlkin i wish more thought like this as ive said this many times b4
wen tlkin to reef bout the hbh he said it was not grown becaz of low yield n flower time but its maintain in rotterdam
I ve had mns hazy SSH phenos that were very catpiss / incense / peppery-spicy like and MH had similar smells in certain hazy phenos as well , though MH it was overall more fruity and sweet that SSH overall
i was not attracted by the name i dont judge a book by her cover but fruit an haze anint my idea of umm i like it dark
but cocktail frank whose well respected said he statred growin becaz of our nyc haze/piff
an mh was the closest experience he has come to our haze
BTW me and others believe that Haze'A' is more Colombian expressive while HazeC is more on the Thai side
interestin considerin that ssh only has haze c in her lineage n has the traits of incense n spice
if the only hybrids that contain the haze a hav more spice n incense traits that makes sense mh nh
i lov that description/smoke report of ur nev pheno frankincense mmmmm
interestin to hear that sams admitted to not havin his best hb clones
1luvbigherb
all the sat lover wit the htc haze n tom hill o.haze n hbh/o.haze nev n tfd o.haze should start a thread nnn get this all settled out
i believe dubi said it best that we need to bring fresh ibl's to create new top notch strains as was o.haze created but after 40's years this particular hybrid has not been surpassed its time too unveil the truth n hopfully let the beans out the bag sams
who has contact wit sams can anyone possibly get a stock of seeds from him personally n start the show ikno the beloved dna cats r chill wit him n they say
he will never free them up.
we can get the THUNK seeds thai haze x sk#1 from him.
i will ask him for some when i see him for the Keif puffdown next week
then no reply or nothin afterward
thats experince tlkin i wish more thought like this as ive said this many times b4
wen tlkin to reef bout the hbh he said it was not grown becaz of low yield n flower time but its maintain in rotterdam
I ve had mns hazy SSH phenos that were very catpiss / incense / peppery-spicy like and MH had similar smells in certain hazy phenos as well , though MH it was overall more fruity and sweet that SSH overall
i was not attracted by the name i dont judge a book by her cover but fruit an haze anint my idea of umm i like it dark
but cocktail frank whose well respected said he statred growin becaz of our nyc haze/piff
an mh was the closest experience he has come to our haze
BTW me and others believe that Haze'A' is more Colombian expressive while HazeC is more on the Thai side
interestin considerin that ssh only has haze c in her lineage n has the traits of incense n spice
if the only hybrids that contain the haze a hav more spice n incense traits that makes sense mh nh
i lov that description/smoke report of ur nev pheno frankincense mmmmm
interestin to hear that sams admitted to not havin his best hb clones
1luvbigherb
Hi Bigherb,
Hi Bigherb,
"interestin considerin that ssh only has haze c in her lineage n has the traits of incense n spice
if the only hybrids that contain the haze a hav more spice n incense traits that makes sense mh nh "
I 've thought about what you say about SSH before too.Here is what I think.., although Haze'C' *may* be more Thai expressive than the Haze'A'. Haze'C' is still a haze plant and its made from pure Haze x pure Haze so its only natural to see Colombian expression from this plant as well as see some Thai expression from Haze'A' , the Col x Thai genes have been mixed up and both sides are expressed more or less in all haze plants. Plus we must not forget that the haze expression in the progeny may be somewhat different than what we see in the expressed in the parent (ie Haze'C') and genes from the Col side get to get expressed as well. It all depends on with what the plant is combined and how it combines. Last but not least..don't forget selection is always the key. SSH = [SK#1Haze'C'] x [NL#5Haze'C'] . If Nev had selected a Colombian expressive NL#5Haze'C' and the SK#1Haze'C' parent plant that SSH uses was also selected from the more Colombian of the lot , then it would be only natural to see quite some Colombian expression in the SSH f1 population.You get my point.. Btw I 've had some quite Thai expressive SSH , the leaves esp where pretty much like many of the pure Thai plants I 've seen.
As for what I said earlier on Sam and his lost 'best haze clone/s', here is the info I base my saying:
"i was not attracted by the name i dont judge a book by her cover but fruit an haze anint my idea of umm i like it dark
but cocktail frank whose well respected said he statred growin becaz of our nyc haze/piff
an mh was the closest experience he has come to our haze "
Well MH is a 50% haze hybrid so even the most hazy phenos will still have quite some other blood from SK & NL.
MH is a great line and as far as sweet/fruit haze goes , well I found peppery spicy phenos that were not fruity or sweet really when I grew my 30 MH seeds. Basically the most frosty flowers came from the Mango scented phenos but I think I preferred the peppery/spicy more haze dominant ones myself for smoking. The good thing with the MNS haze line you are currently growing , SKxHaze, is that its not a cross between two haze hybrid parents like MH and SSH are , but its a direct cross. This ensures you have a higher chance to find something really close to one of the parents if you grow enough plants. You can find a Sk expressive pheno but you can also find a very Hazy pheno that is very close to the dad( Haze'C') . With SSH and MH one has more chances to find a more uniform expression of the haze in the F1 population as both parents have haze in their blood.
Hi Bigherb,
"interestin considerin that ssh only has haze c in her lineage n has the traits of incense n spice
if the only hybrids that contain the haze a hav more spice n incense traits that makes sense mh nh "
I 've thought about what you say about SSH before too.Here is what I think.., although Haze'C' *may* be more Thai expressive than the Haze'A'. Haze'C' is still a haze plant and its made from pure Haze x pure Haze so its only natural to see Colombian expression from this plant as well as see some Thai expression from Haze'A' , the Col x Thai genes have been mixed up and both sides are expressed more or less in all haze plants. Plus we must not forget that the haze expression in the progeny may be somewhat different than what we see in the expressed in the parent (ie Haze'C') and genes from the Col side get to get expressed as well. It all depends on with what the plant is combined and how it combines. Last but not least..don't forget selection is always the key. SSH = [SK#1Haze'C'] x [NL#5Haze'C'] . If Nev had selected a Colombian expressive NL#5Haze'C' and the SK#1Haze'C' parent plant that SSH uses was also selected from the more Colombian of the lot , then it would be only natural to see quite some Colombian expression in the SSH f1 population.You get my point.. Btw I 've had some quite Thai expressive SSH , the leaves esp where pretty much like many of the pure Thai plants I 've seen.
As for what I said earlier on Sam and his lost 'best haze clone/s', here is the info I base my saying:
Sam has always claimed that the best pot he has smoked was the Haze Bros Haze. He never said that he still has haze as good HB haze up to this day..as the one he used to smoke in the old days.If you notice in his posts he says that O.Haze was the best , not is the best..(his reply was on which IS the strongest sativa.)Sam_Skunkman on what IS the strongest sativa said:
Sam_Skunkman on 'what IS the strongest strain available' said:
Sam_Skunkman on what IS the strongest sativa said:
"i was not attracted by the name i dont judge a book by her cover but fruit an haze anint my idea of umm i like it dark
but cocktail frank whose well respected said he statred growin becaz of our nyc haze/piff
an mh was the closest experience he has come to our haze "
Well MH is a 50% haze hybrid so even the most hazy phenos will still have quite some other blood from SK & NL.
MH is a great line and as far as sweet/fruit haze goes , well I found peppery spicy phenos that were not fruity or sweet really when I grew my 30 MH seeds. Basically the most frosty flowers came from the Mango scented phenos but I think I preferred the peppery/spicy more haze dominant ones myself for smoking. The good thing with the MNS haze line you are currently growing , SKxHaze, is that its not a cross between two haze hybrid parents like MH and SSH are , but its a direct cross. This ensures you have a higher chance to find something really close to one of the parents if you grow enough plants. You can find a Sk expressive pheno but you can also find a very Hazy pheno that is very close to the dad( Haze'C') . With SSH and MH one has more chances to find a more uniform expression of the haze in the F1 population as both parents have haze in their blood.
Chamba,
"is this how history is written? lol"
No of course not , history is written by humans and not always it is being recored accurately as all well know.. It all depends on who writes things down..and on whose side he is.
Last but not least in order to make sure history represents real facts multiple sources must be used so it is confirmed what really happened.
"without a televised interview with Sam and Nev together with DNA testing results of the hazes in question...then I guess we will just have to rely on the facts rather than opinion."
I urge anyone that is into Haze history to research and carefully read what all sides said. Last but not least grow haze plants and see if they 'keep up' with the story.. I 've personally read all Sams post on IC about Haze numerous times , and all I 've seen is info that cannot be proved by others to be true...Plus talk is cheap , we need some proof.
On top of that I 've seen Sam's hate towards Nev and that makes Sam ,well simply put, not the ideal person to listen to when it comes to Nev. His opinion is biased no matter what and I m sure that is clear. BTW Nev was more than a 'clever salesman' as you describe him, he grew and bred plants amongst other things. He was involved in breeding from a young age and he has created and made available to the public legendary strains and still is and and thats the truth. Sam hasn't bred 'all todays varieties' as you say..He didn't breed Haze, he didnt breed White Widow or other great popular strains like KaliMist , AK47 or Blueberry etc and the list goes on and on and on.. He did a lot of serious work on cannabis though and sure has contributed a lot in the canna world with his research and breeding and I like to give credit where its due..but lets not sound absolute , he wasn't the only good breeder out there and he certainly hasn't bred all of the lines that are popular today amongst growers/smokers.Sam has posted contradicting info on Haze many times, thats a fact and if you don't want to accept that or think its hair splitting..what can I say..
Sam may not be selling seeds like Shanti is but this doesnt mean that Sam doesn't have something to gain by claiming the Haze (Neville worked with, to make his hybrids) is from him..
To all of those that don't like or get bored with such talks , you can always stay away and not partake , all I will say is such discussions are what led us here today,if it wasn't for them we would still have no clue about certain critical details on Haze and other strain history. If you don't have something useful to add to the discussion perhaps its better to not say anything at all cause posts that lead nowhere don't help find what really happened.
"is this how history is written? lol"
No of course not , history is written by humans and not always it is being recored accurately as all well know.. It all depends on who writes things down..and on whose side he is.
Last but not least in order to make sure history represents real facts multiple sources must be used so it is confirmed what really happened.
"without a televised interview with Sam and Nev together with DNA testing results of the hazes in question...then I guess we will just have to rely on the facts rather than opinion."
I urge anyone that is into Haze history to research and carefully read what all sides said. Last but not least grow haze plants and see if they 'keep up' with the story.. I 've personally read all Sams post on IC about Haze numerous times , and all I 've seen is info that cannot be proved by others to be true...Plus talk is cheap , we need some proof.
On top of that I 've seen Sam's hate towards Nev and that makes Sam ,well simply put, not the ideal person to listen to when it comes to Nev. His opinion is biased no matter what and I m sure that is clear. BTW Nev was more than a 'clever salesman' as you describe him, he grew and bred plants amongst other things. He was involved in breeding from a young age and he has created and made available to the public legendary strains and still is and and thats the truth. Sam hasn't bred 'all todays varieties' as you say..He didn't breed Haze, he didnt breed White Widow or other great popular strains like KaliMist , AK47 or Blueberry etc and the list goes on and on and on.. He did a lot of serious work on cannabis though and sure has contributed a lot in the canna world with his research and breeding and I like to give credit where its due..but lets not sound absolute , he wasn't the only good breeder out there and he certainly hasn't bred all of the lines that are popular today amongst growers/smokers.Sam has posted contradicting info on Haze many times, thats a fact and if you don't want to accept that or think its hair splitting..what can I say..
Sam may not be selling seeds like Shanti is but this doesnt mean that Sam doesn't have something to gain by claiming the Haze (Neville worked with, to make his hybrids) is from him..
To all of those that don't like or get bored with such talks , you can always stay away and not partake , all I will say is such discussions are what led us here today,if it wasn't for them we would still have no clue about certain critical details on Haze and other strain history. If you don't have something useful to add to the discussion perhaps its better to not say anything at all cause posts that lead nowhere don't help find what really happened.
