U.K cheese brightside cut ?

[maryjaneismyfre]

Now some more recent pics of that same sign, in mothers that are not cheese, that I took during a great culling. I mean superbly healthy plants, you'd never think they had any sort of infection. Everything we had at that stage was infected. These are pics I took of leaves where it was obvious. Another thing you can see in some leaves that is a sign of the viroid, is the tips of leaves do this wierd turn and point away from each other, now cheese ALWAYS did that, I just thought it was a genetic trait of the plant. Funny that. Its not, it is actually a thing that leaves do when they got a little bit of viroid, but not enough to make the leaflets overlap. I'm no expert but by now by the time I knew what I was looking it, I ran a few hundred thousand dirty plants, you learn to spot the signs easily. Other signs of wierd shit, lack of sodium tolerance, lets not talk about herms, full blown males?! I've seen them...one out a thousand clones turning into a boy...fucking viroid..one branch turning male..seriously seen it a bunch of times..LOL I laugh at all those bag seed strains out there, so many genetics would be stable and then get infected and i see bananas..LOL No wonder all those cookies and OG's based off bagseed went downhill so quickly haha.

 

[maryjaneismyfre]

I was literally speaking to an old acquaintance, on here yesterday about it, they have it in their room..and after posting a message, the very next post that I click to see, a vendor on here posting a new strain they have..I won't meantion names but in the picture posted for the strain, I can see it in there...If you go onto almost all vendor sites, you can spot it a mile away if you've seen enough of it.

Once you learn to spot that sign on the leaves, and that wont reliably show you infected plants, but if the leaves have that look, reliably that plant has viroid..but once you learn to spot that you will see it EVERYWHERE..and then you will think to yourself, no, surely not, surely viroid is not that prevalent..not in almost everyone's gardens that i visit. And, unfortunately, it is.

 

[eastcoastjoe]

View media item 17368861
View media item 17101210
View media item 17101209
View media item 17101202
View media item 17101189
View media item 17101187
View media item 17101188
Exodus as a reference..Think it is clean? Looks clean...na, tolerant. If it wasn't I wouldnt have been putting bread on the table all those years running it. That was SOG back in the day g/w all day long, from handwater to flood tables to drip tables...LOL We just figured you had to have fresh moms all the time, never taking cuts from lowers, moms cycled every 3 months...rooted like anything, same crop run in run out..infected the whole time. I just grew racing away from a significant viral load the whole time..I had clear duds years before this. I had clear duds in cali and dutch seeds living in the mom rooms with them, everything was always sanitized with alcohol while working..and moms were on recirculating drip hydro, in hydroton or coir..LOL viroid would have been rife in my mom room the whole decade.

View attachment 18960985

View attachment 18960989
Those leaves subtly give it away though with those blades tucked under others. Looking back at these pics years old now, from mid 2010's, I see it clearly. Fuckin viroid the whole time! Thank GOD the clone is tolerant..fuck that taste is like home to me. I dont know what I'd have done if I lost it..

That leaf overlapping is not a guaranteed sign of hop latent viroid

 

[SuperFarang]

leaves pointing upward is linked to vpd (air too dry under the lamps)
nothing to do with viroid
duds are easy to spot on exodus cheese
plants will throw lateral branches like crazy with an ugly structure
the plants in the last photos are not infected
stop psychosis buddy

 

[PoleCatt6134]

Smells blocks away

Better than the exodus ?

 

[eastcoastjoe]

leaves pointing upward is linked to vpd (air too dry under the lamps)
nothing to do with viroid
duds are easy to spot on exodus cheese
plants will throw lateral branches like crazy with an ugly structure
the plants in the last photos are not infected
stop psychosis buddy

I think he’s talking about the overlapping of the leaf fingers

 

[jahshaka]

I'm convinced after seeing @maryjaneismyfre post most my mothers have the viroid. It came from some dude's cut I took in. Everything was fine before that. How do we restart a spot and clean the place for new genetics. Detailed info please how many ppm of bleach needed etc etc.

 

[bimblebrains_1]

2013 is probably the last time i smoked this, the bud you posted months back, and these ones looks like the original to me. the lower yielder and more pungent smelling one. does it still hold that awesome taste in the smoke bimble.

Hey bro,yes she still holds that mouth watering taste,astringent lip smacking,makes you pout like a yardy man almost lol...I've heard it be said that the original is a lower yielder as well and this one can defo be lacking but once you know how to treat her I think you could get fairly respectable numbers,I'll tell yer before long how I got on ,got 10 cuts ,7 litre pots ,600w...we'll see eh

 

[bimblebrains_1]

View media item 17368861
View media item 17101210
View media item 17101209
View media item 17101202
View media item 17101189
View media item 17101187
View media item 17101188
Exodus as a reference..Think it is clean? Looks clean...na, tolerant. If it wasn't I wouldnt have been putting bread on the table all those years running it. That was SOG back in the day g/w all day long, from handwater to flood tables to drip tables...LOL We just figured you had to have fresh moms all the time, never taking cuts from lowers, moms cycled every 3 months...rooted like anything, same crop run in run out..infected the whole time. I just grew racing away from a significant viral load the whole time..I had clear duds years before this. I had clear duds in cali and dutch seeds living in the mom rooms with them, everything was always sanitized with alcohol while working..and moms were on recirculating drip hydro, in hydroton or coir..LOL viroid would have been rife in my mom room the whole decade.

View attachment 18960985

View attachment 18960989
Those leaves subtly give it away though with those blades tucked under others. Looking back at these pics years old now, from mid 2010's, I see it clearly. Fuckin viroid the whole time! Thank GOD the clone is tolerant..fuck that taste is like home to me. I dont know what I'd have done if I lost it..

Well one things for sure,your exo is definitely different to the plant I've got,very orange pistols on yours,mine have a pinkish hue,the leaves colour up quite rainbowish on yours and mine just pale off... interesting as yours doesn't look like the others I've seen on here either like the window,birdman,dogon,jah ect....

 

[Greaselightning]

Hey bro,yes she still holds that mouth watering taste,astringent lip smacking,makes you pout like a yardy man almost lol...I've heard it be said that the original is a lower yielder as well and this one can defo be lacking but once you know how to treat her I think you could get fairly respectable numbers,I'll tell yer before long how I got on ,got 10 cuts ,7 litre pots ,600w...we'll see eh

yeh man sounds mint, that awesome taste and smell that makes you want to dive in the bag. my face all ways lights up smelling this.

 

[Greaselightning]

Well one things for sure,your exo is definitely different to the plant I've got,very orange pistols on yours,mine have a pinkish hue,the leaves colour up quite rainbowish on yours and mine just pale off... interesting as yours doesn't look like the others I've seen on here either like the window,birdman,dogon,jah ect....

glad you mentoined this, this is a way i would identify the real cheese when all the xs and stuff came out at the time. the hairs had almost a pinkish salmon like colour less orange in colour. in the dry bud you could see this more clearer.

 

[Greaselightning]

Now some more recent pics of that same sign, in mothers that are not cheese, that I took during a great culling. I mean superbly healthy plants, you'd never think they had any sort of infection. Everything we had at that stage was infected. These are pics I took of leaves where it was obvious. Another thing you can see in some leaves that is a sign of the viroid, is the tips of leaves do this wierd turn and point away from each other, now cheese ALWAYS did that, I just thought it was a genetic trait of the plant. Funny that. Its not, it is actually a thing that leaves do when they got a little bit of viroid, but not enough to make the leaflets overlap. I'm no expert but by now by the time I knew what I was looking it, I ran a few hundred thousand dirty plants, you learn to spot the signs easily. Other signs of wierd shit, lack of sodium tolerance, lets not talk about herms, full blown males?! I've seen them...one out a thousand clones turning into a boy...fucking viroid..one branch turning male..seriously seen it a bunch of times..LOL I laugh at all those bag seed strains out there, so many genetics would be stable and then get infected and i see bananas..LOL No wonder all those cookies and OG's based off bagseed went downhill so quickly haha.

just wondering if the high is different at all from the viroid infected plants.

 

[maryjaneismyfre]

That leaf overlapping is not a guaranteed sign of hop latent viroid

I know...But it's a pretty reliable sign.

 

[maryjaneismyfre]

just wondering if the high is different at all from the viroid infected plants.

more viroid infected, less THC. So less high, less terps, less entourage effect.

 

[maryjaneismyfre]

leaves pointing upward is linked to vpd (air too dry under the lamps)
nothing to do with viroid
duds are easy to spot on exodus cheese
plants will throw lateral branches like crazy with an ugly structure
the plants in the last photos are not infected
stop psychosis buddy

They are infected.. The plants in the last photos were ALL infected. The cheese pics, were ALL infected. And I am not speculating, later pics were all clear positives in PCR tests, and in flower.. My clones success rate has gone from 60-70%, struggling, back to 99.99% success rate with clean plants. Viroids a cunt. Since I culled all and replaced with clean stock yields are back up, cannabanoids % is back up, homogeneity of crop back up..production is back up. Every facility that I speak to on my side, and I consult with nutrition with a bunch of them, si dealing with this and has been unaware for a long time, except one place a mate runs and that was just through sheer luck and chance where he culled all, went back to seed he had made and selected the few most vigorous plants off the bat from seedlings, culled rest, phenohunted them, tested the winners and kept the literally three or four clean winner plants he had and then made seed with them, and now still runs those few plants exclusively, facility is under biosecurity lockdown, and any new stuff he runs is only from those seeds he made with the clean parents, and he has remained clean for 2 years. There is literallly only him in terms of commercial facilities that I know of that is clean. I still get a little reinfection in my flowering areas, we are not yet clean, but mothers are clean and doesnt affect my production anymore.

I can show you pic after pic of infected flower, I can show pics of a branch going randomly half and half herm. I can show you pics of degree of infection as moms younger or older. All infected with viroid, I just learned to manage it well over the years hence the plants looking nice and healthy. I dont' have viroid in my moms now and it took a lot of effort, a lot of being pedantic, and a whole big cull, reset, lots of bleach and procurement of actually clean plants.

Duds are easy to spot in cheese, sure, but I never spotted a dud in a decade, did before that and guess what when I did PCR testing, it was rotten..It is called tolerance.

 

[maryjaneismyfre]

I'm convinced after seeing @maryjaneismyfre post most my mothers have the viroid. It came from some dude's cut I took in. Everything was fine before that. How do we restart a spot and clean the place for new genetics. Detailed info please how many ppm of bleach needed etc etc.

Jah, you need to clean all surfaces, with soap etc..and then bleach them, don't expect the bleach to do the cleaning, and disinfection, clean first, then disinfect. Biofilm, organic material, limescale etc. deal with first, then once clean, bleach. Our bleach here is 3.5%, yanks are 5%, so ours 1/3, theirs 1/5 dilution, I use HTH, much cheaper, mixing up fresh solutions to use. Aim for 5000-10000ppm free chlorine, use proper PPE, googles, respirator, long arm gloves, long arm/leg clothes, gumboots etc...aim for minimum 60 seconds contact time. Make sure to clean alll pipes, drains, tables, floors, everything...New pots new media new new new..In the states the just replace all drippers, plumbing etc. here labour cheaper than equipment so I just been soaking in chemicals and bleach. Seems too have worked, 8 months now and no reinfection of mothers, touch wood, and the areas they are in contained viroid plants for 4-5 years before that so it worked. I know of those that were getting reinfected from fungus gnats comiing up from their drain pipes and biting roots and reinfecting, the biofilm in the drain had taken up lots of viroid molecule and was tranferring too the gnats who were transferring back to the plants. Once they cleaned the drains out with chemicals it stopped.

The only way to know something is clean is PCR testing older roots, pool samples to keep costs down and when you get positives then you can send samples from within the pools and see how far the extent of infection is, what exactly etc..What we have found, is that everything was infected for our first 2 years of testing, except one plant was clean once in first test and not later test, that came from seed, LOL.. Ths included seed, clones and tissue culture from mainland europe, and states both. All was dirty. And now after reset and starting with plants that came with guarantees that they were clean, and testing them and later testing them, they were clean, and have stayed clean. And of our control samples sent in recently from other facilities, two was clean, one was dirty. The results completely surprise one too, the one clean from from a mates place I meantioned that only runs 3 cuts, annd his stuff hunted from his clean seed, but that one clean plant, he has had since the beginning there and it is a wonder it never got infected before and is still clean. But the plants a winner so good news for us and good news for him. The other clean plant was from a mate who has been getting HAMMERED for the last at least 2-3 years but completely blissfully unaware. He also runs cheese and I saw him posting on instagram and he described the terps being buttery and I was immediately like oooooh ouch, viroid, knowing that the terps get subdued in cheese and the butteryness comes to the fore with viroid inhibiting terpene production so I ask him, hey bro any problems lately with cloneing or or..he's like fuck bro I want to pull my hair out and throw in the towel, I don't know what im doing wrong...growing for 20 years...I tell him to test his stuff for viroid.. He was all rotten. Media beds being reused with recirculating hydro, ouch... So he just become very acquainted with bleach since then. And just knowing what he is up against and dealing with it, managing it better, he is getting much better results. His mold incidence etc come right down..He is still infected, but quickly started chasing mothers away from the high load, subsequent rounds of cuts, not using apical tips nor lowers as cuts, and selecting the clones that visibly root faster and more roots than the rest and planting those as new moms..and growing as many seeds to crop as possible, to avoid the effect of viroid on production. They could not afford to reset with clean plants, clean plants from TC with guarantees are not cheap. And to cut a long story short, in his rounds of cuts he saw one plant just growing out differently to the rest, having a branching structure that he had actually never seen in 20 years, and only recognised from me sending him pics of clean moms, and he took that plant away asap to quarantine it far from any other weed, and let it grow out, and we tested its roots now once the plant is nice and established still showing that uninhibited growth, and low and behold it is clean! So more varietals are tolerant than we know of, one can deduce, as only jamaican lion and cheese have been found to be tolerant so far in terms of study, I figured cheese was already tolerant before the study came out as I grew it for so long and could see i received it infected in the 2000's. So as meantioned by a guy in post above, a change in lower branching structure, often denote viroid too, when the lower branches start coming out at 90 degrees and growing horizontally and dont hold their weight, often a sure sign. I posted pics a few months ago on the BREEDERS WFT thread, and there you can see a clean mom and its branching structure, and generally you only see that in some seedplants these days prior to the first cloning. LOL

The positive out our last testing, was a cut of a winner old plant of ours, that we won cups with, that succumbed to the viroid, from someone who only runs that and it has not seemingly gone downhill yet, and unfortunately it must just be his management of viroid that we dont see it, fresh moms constantly being replaced etc, the plant itself was sadly infected.

Literally, for all the tests I have done over the last 3 years, only the tests in the last few months have been clean, and before that..one test. We tested material coming in from far and wide, and locally..it was not 80% of or 90% of or..all of them were positive except one, once. LOL. People don't realize how widespread this is. Also I am not including leaf tests where in the beginning we were getting hits and misses, its the leaf tests, test roots and you see the viroid if its there...

Also...procuring clean material too, is harder than is sounds..Of the european labs, only one culture that was supposed to be cleaned, stayed clean, of the american labs, my mates getting from a big name I wont say, they still fighting it a year later, moms keep on getting reinfected and lab says its them and not the cultures. The lab that we used last year, I can vouch for, all was clean, and has stayed clean..and my production, each crop is my best ever, better than the last..I am so stoked.

 

[Rastafarout]

Good information some Picts and names would be appreciated…I mean you need to say where the infection is coming from which company , so all can avoid .

 

[bimblebrains_1]

I think that the most achievable thing to strive for is to select,keep and run only plants that are tolerant of the viriod,keep them in optimal health with good clean cloning practices and in a clean spot.That way even with the viriod present its like you don't have it...after all expensive testing and tissue cultures cuts ect are above the reach and pocket of the average grower.
The spot I'm at currently has a lot of hype cuts and I see the traits all over the shop that you mention @maryjaneismyfre but I really don't see it in my cheese clone or a pure kush x chem we found from seed either,those two ladies do absolutely fine surrounded by all sorts of other plants so prime example of the resilience some individuals have

 

[maryjaneismyfre]

I think that the most achievable thing to strive for is to select,keep and run only plants that are tolerant of the viriod,keep them in optimal health with good clean cloning practices and in a clean spot.That way even with the viriod present its like you don't have it...after all expensive testing and tissue cultures cuts ect are above the reach and pocket of the average grower.
The spot I'm at currently has a lot of hype cuts and I see the traits all over the shop that you mention @maryjaneismyfre but I really don't see it in my cheese clone or a pure kush x chem we found from seed either,those two ladies do absolutely fine surrounded by all sorts of other plants so prime example of the resilience some individuals have

Agreed...its the only way I paid rent in hindsight all these years till now..LOL...Another thing, spray moms weekly with chitosan, it inhibits the viroids replication to some degree. Chitosan oligosaccharide is a godsend if you have to manage it. I'd spray vegging plants full strength, early and late flower half and during budset quarter strength, if one was managing the viroid in tolerant plants, makes a world of difference. Use trichoderma spore in your spray to avoid budrots in flower.

Anecdotally, regalia, microbial enzyme brews and chitosan and those things that I used to use to get a dramatic improvement in mold resistances, chitosan is well researched but the others, I am now of the opinion that they were inhibiting viroid to some degree and that is responsible for most of the dramatic response in immune function that I used to see, and use them for...

Bimble..also in your geographic area, if there is no testing..that is a big gap. Root or leaf (u dont want leaf but..) dont contain significant THC so like seed maybe legal to handle etc, or it is a gap in the market to setup a testing facility and employ some graduate to sit in the lab and churn through tests, and make life easier for other growers around. When we started testing, we had to find a prof at a uni and get the reagents and all, he had the gear, and test like that at his leisure. But since then there are 3 labs that I know of testing commercially, including the prof who is now charging and testing for others. In the states competition has brought the price down already, more expensive here, but my last tests I got a good snapshot on the whole facility by pooling samples and doing only a handful of tests.

Watch videos and read documents by tumi and medical genomics, they explain most of this, symptoms, prevalence etc. including pooling samples for cost. Also take into account most of the older studies looking at incidence in facilities, were doing leaf samples which is hit and miss, in reality infection rates would be worse. Now they test roots, don't bother with leaf petioles. We were getting positives on almost all leaf, so shows how bad we were, cheese would test clean on some leaf dirty as hell on others. Tolerance. Roots would be off the charts positive signal LOL.

 

[SuperFarang]

Is this signs of virus?

View attachment 18951818

View attachment 18951820

It's otherwise healthy but has the odd varigated? leaf thing ... side branching is a bit crazy and uneven with the odd mutated leaf/even number leaf blade leaf too.

big red flag in my experience

my duds had these mosaic patterns

does it throw lateral branches, creeper like ?