The Search for Trip Weed

[F2F]

Looks very scrumptious and quite chunky @PandoraSeedBank care to say how many to find that one?

Like @GreenAndFast , have the Lao sa, and also like him - too many seeds and too little space/time!

Peace
F2F

 

[xet]

Me too man. Couldn't resist, even though I've got 30+ crosses to go through

I am being very motivated to grail hunt thru the Lao Sa ...

 

[PandoraSeedBank]

Looks very scrumptious and quite chunky @PandoraSeedBank care to say how many to find that one?

Like @GreenAndFast , have the Lao sa, and also like him - too many seeds and too little space/time!

Peace
F2F

I would like to answer this question but for security reasons I can't say the number I hope you understand...Hopefully this situation will change soon.

I wish you find plants like these or even better. They just need to search through as many seeds as possible and get lucky.

 

[PandoraSeedBank]

Thai Chiang Mai seeds given by a collector friend.
Good sexual stability, good smell of lemon and spices, good amount of resin.
Neither was a suitable or sexually stable male found.
Finding good females is easier than finding good males in this type of plants.
Therefore, Old timers haze was also considered as a pollen donor.
You can see more photos on my instagram.

 

[exoticrobotic]

Thai Chiang Mai seeds given by a collector friend.
Good sexual stability, good smell of lemon and spices, good amount of resin.
Neither was a suitable or sexually stable male found.
Finding good females is easier than finding good males in this type of plants.
Therefore, Old timers haze was also considered as a pollen donor.
You can see more photos on my instagram.

Beautiful looking plants PSB

I've been mulling this over for quite a while and your post felt like a good reason to air some contrary thoughts and maybe discuss people's experience.

I have a question to anyone working with hermie prone lines.... Does anyone really know from experience that non sexually stable males aren't a good source of pollen for future generations? Maybe they contain more genetic diversity and/or contribute to potency?

I am not sure they would cause sexually unstable offspring? Or do they?

Maybe Thai/local farmers are less worried about hermaphrodites than we are...

Some purely speculative hypothetical thought but If i was a Thai farmer I wouldn't necessarily mind slightly hermie plants.

I'd want female plants, not male for the most part but I would need seed for future generations.

I'd maybe prefer my seed to come from very late slightly hermieing females so i got mostly bud with a few seeds for the next planting.

Two birds with one stone so to speak...

So much effort goes into selfing our beloved plant but ones that do it naturally at the end of their cycle are generally tossed in the west.

Everyone's thoughts and experience on these matters are greatly appreciated.

 

[funkyhorse]

Zamal Mango Pepper males indoors only grew pistils, I could hardly get any pollen
Outdoors 2 of them were firm, I still keep this one for his last days

Northern Thailand 2008 variegated male
Indoors I did not get any male, all were female and most of them them grew male branches
Outdoors seems to be a different story. I care for the pollen. I dont mind if they grow a pistil or 2 like this male. He gives plenty of pollen

These are outdoor tropical genetics, indoors they flower and sex very different

 

[F2F]

I would like to answer this question but for security reasons I can't say the number I hope you understand...Hopefully this situation will change soon.

I wish you find plants like these or even better. They just need to search through as many seeds as possible and get lucky.

^^^Completely understandable.

Peace,
F2F

 

[F2F]

been thinking about these same points @exoticrobotic , @funkyhorse -

What’s been lost as a result of hermie cull over the years? Lots of fire reported back in the hay day was seeded…(edit) and reports of instability of some/many progeny from these gene pools.

Environment - we run plants all the time in a completely different environment than bred/developed in. How many times are NLD/long-flower plants discarded due to instability indoors, or in non-tropical climes, yet they might be 100% firm - and killer - in more suitable conditions?

Peace,
F2F

 

[PandoraSeedBank]

Hello this is a good topic to discuss.
In my opinion potency is not related to intersexuality.
Many thai and zamal varieties tend to be prone to hermaphroditism and yet are known for their potency.
It is true that outdoors it is more difficult for them to show hermaphroditic traits but unfortunately the selection is made indoors and the vast majority of growers plant indoors and nobody wants hermies plants.
Therefore if you have a firm male it is always better than a hermie one.
If you use hermaphrodite plants, the seeds are most likely to be hermaphroditic as well.
Especially if you use a female hermie.
If the male is hermie the female plants may or may not be but this will not be known until it is tested.
In the case of males, hermaphrodite males would surely come out.
In any case, it is always better to avoid it unless there is no other way.
As I understand it, seedless cultivation was practiced in Thailand. That is, they eliminated the males and the seeds they obtained were from hermaphroditic females.
Hence the difficulty of finding stable males.
The problem with using hermaphroditic plants is that you can end up with self-pollinated plants full of seeds instead of sinsemilla.

These photos are of a Thai male Chiang Mai.
It was beautiful. even more than the previous female. He was the last to declare sex.
It passed all stress tests and only showed a few loose female pistils. It also released quite a bit of pollen.
But surprise! When the cutting flowered it was completely hermaphrodite. She looked more like a woman than a man.
That is nature and it was discarded.

 

[exoticrobotic]

What’s been lost as a result of hermie cull over the years? Lots of fire reported back in the hay day was seeded…(edit) and reports of instability of some/many progeny from these gene pools.

Exactly F2F. Most of the 'elite cuts' are from the 1 out of 3 seeds found in bud that happened to germinate. Would that be from a slightly hermy plant? It's possible...

Many of the great smokes i've experienced had one or two seeds in the occasional bud.

Many thai and zamal varieties tend to be prone to hermaphroditism and yet are known for their potency.

I can certainly attest to Zamal's potency PSB and its sense of ancient power/nostalgia. It autoflowered on me but the one i did showed no male features at all indoors.

Very interesting Funkyhorse's experience indoors vs outdoors with the northern Thai. The Thai genepool is one i am very interested in. I the look of your variegated male.

These photos are of a Thai male Chiang Mai.
It was beautiful. even more than the previous female. He was the last to declare sex.

I would have used that male PSB, it looked really nice. Even just for an experiment seeing it is a Thai landrace.

Those last to flower males could be the ones responsible for the few exceptional seeds found in great bud.

Saying that, Thai Chiang Mai x OTH sounds amazing

 

[funkyhorse]

If you use hermaphrodite plants, the seeds are most likely to be hermaphroditic as well.
Especially if you use a female hermie.

I am not biased, I never read a botany book in my life and I find a lot of growing stereotypes dont pass the test of nature
I am testing this now for my winter grow
This is Seedsman Hz x Ohz90 best girl from the seed I got from Madmac x Northern Thailand female 3 which grew full male branches which opened up very quick in just 24 hours and pollinized everything
So I am testing this because this happens naturally and I am curious to see what happens
From 8 seed I got 4 males and 4 females. All females so far are firm, I just have 1 of the 4 males growing a few pistils on top shot.
This is the most advanced girl. I am curious to see if they finnish sexually firm

 

[exoticrobotic]

This is Seedsman Hz x Ohz90 best girl from the seed I got from Madmac x Northern Thailand

Wow. She's a stunner.

Any different scents or characteristics to her so far?

Kudos for trialling the offspring of hermie plants funkyhorse.

I hope they blow everything out of the water in terms of potency and quality of high.

 

[F2F]

In my opinion potency is not related to intersexuality.
Many thai and zamal varieties tend to be prone to hermaphroditism and yet are known for their potency.

But…your quote above says it could actually be related to intersex tendency.

Not proven of course, but the the zam and Thai examples show that potency and intersex could come in a package together.

just a different perspective, maybe we’re saying same thing.

Peace,

 

[PandoraSeedBank]

But…your quote above says it could actually be related to intersex tendency.

Not proven of course, but the the zam and Thai examples show that potency and intersex could come in a package together.

just a different perspective, maybe we’re saying same thing.

Peace,

Yes. Intersex is not related to potency. It can be hermaphrodite and be resinous and powerful, or it can also be hermaphrodite and have no smell, no resin, nor be powerful as if it were grass.

 

[goingrey]

Yes. Intersex is not related to potency. It can be hermaphrodite and be resinous and powerful, or it can also be hermaphrodite and have no smell, no resin, nor be powerful as if it were grass.

Can confirm the existence of low potency hermies.

 

[PandoraSeedBank]

Can confirm the existence of low potency hermies.

I have seen and tried it myself. In these same varieties of Thai and Lao.

 

[exoticrobotic]

Can confirm the existence of low potency hermies.

I'm not suggesting all hermies are potent, just that they may carry something extra in them that modern selected varieties are missing.

I'm interested in any differences in the offspring of female x hermie male,

If a landrace is hermie prone in its natural environment it has to have been selected that way surely?

Why?

 

[goingrey]

If a landrace is hermie prone in its natural environment it has to have been selected that way surely?

Why?

Well often the plants have been multipurpose, not strictly drug. Hermies could have been selected for for the same reasons as in western hemp varieties:

Plant breeders, primarily in Europe, have selected for monoecious hemp varieties because they produce higher yields of grain and hurd or shive per acre compared to dioecious varieties. Monoecious hemp varieties are optimal for growers looking to take a whole-plant approach, growing a single hemp crop for multiple purposes, including fiber, grain, and oil extraction.

Monoecious & Dioecious Varieties: What It Means for Hemp Growers — International Hemp | AOSCA Certified Industrial Hemp Seed

What's the difference between monoecious and dioecious AOSCA certified industrial hemp seed varieties for grain and fiber production?

www.international-hemp.com

But also, even more simple than that, if they have been growing seeded anyway, hermaphroditism may simply not have been seen as a trait that needed to be selected against.

I have heard the theory of extra potent hermies before. I'm not saying it's not true but on the other hand I haven't seen any proof to validate it and it seems somewhat folkloreish so I'm also not going to say that it is true.

 

[exoticrobotic]

Very interesting goingrey. Thanks for the link

Using selective plant breeding, monoecious industrial hemp varieties have become more prevalent. Monoecious varieties exhibit both male and female reproductive organs on the same individual plant. Without plant breeding, intervention, and maintenance, hemp varieties would revert to their natural dioecious state.

Plant breeders, primarily in Europe, have selected for monoecious hemp varieties because they produce higher yields of grain and hurd or shive per acre compared to dioecious varieties. Monoecious hemp varieties are optimal for growers looking to take a whole-plant approach, growing a single hemp crop for multiple purposes, including fiber, grain, and oil extraction.

We are selecting for dioecious varieties for smoking?

The Thais are actively selecting for monoecious varieties for smoking? otherwise they would revert naturally to dioecious?

Or is this just with industrial hemp?

 

[goingrey]

Very interesting goingrey. Thanks for the link



We are selecting for dioecious varieties for smoking?

The Thais are actively selecting for monoecious varieties for smoking? otherwise they would revert naturally to dioecious?

Or is this just with industrial hemp?

I'm not sure I believe that. By all accounts hermaphroditism seems to be genetic so this reversal to dioecious would require some kind of natural selection advantage for the sexually stabile individuals that I just can't see. But I dunno, maybe it is so.