WTF is w/feminized genetics,

[stagger lee]

Regarding Greg Green's comments....

Sex is ABSOLUTELY an inherited trait. Just because sexual expression can be modified by environment does not mean that this too is not inherited - it is.

Here we go again. I completely agree w/this! Never once did I say (or quote from list of books) any different. Hoosier when wrong and backed into a corner starts twisting words around to cover his own ass! As a matter of fact I dont think any1 in this thread even said sex WASNT an inherited trait? Fortunately any1 who cares can reread the thread and see this!

What hoosier was tryn to argue is that the grow environment cant influence the sexual outcome and feminized genetics in no way shape or form can produce a male. If you look back in the thread youll see what Im talkn about?

Hoosier also likes tryn to make it sound like I just read this shit in 1 (greg greens ) grow book. I have known and read this for years, I quoted 1 person. I posted a few books n mags, to offer up proof only because hoosier constantly asked for it. And he did it in a disrespectful way talking all kinds of BS. Its really basic grow knowledge that the grow environment has influence on the sexual outcome! I know that T Hill is an experienced grower. I have been growing/breeding for over 23yrs minus a few yrs(in the joint) for growing it. I even helped supply one of the 1st cannabis clubs in SF (W/Denis Peron) with nuggs,clones,ect...Learned from some of the best growers in the world (N.Cali..Bay Area). I just dont throw exp and whatnot out there to proove my point. Hoosiers just got an incredible attitude prob and imo painted himself in a corner w/100 posts on a topic he obviously doesnt know shit about.

 

[stagger lee]

Oh yeah, Hoosier keep the hate mail (pm's) and neg rep shit coming, my girl and friends are tryn to seperate/count the different multipersonalilies that are surfacing..And you still havent listed the breeders offering the true "good" feminized seeds

 

[JackTheGrower]

i thought it was a well known fact that; some land-race seed-lines wont show inter-sexed expressions in there native environments, but when the same seed-line is brought into an indoor environment the % of inter-sexed expression increases,,




PS, i don't think 1 gen of selfing will uncover all hereto masking issues

but i could be wrong?????

will someone please correct me?

I was thinking yesterday that with all the mixing of genetics we have many of our genetics could have expressions we know nothing about.

What do we do to insure we take genetics through their paces?

 

[JackTheGrower]

Yes English Rick, that is a fact Jack, but it is more then just landrace lines, you can take other strains/clones/fems/ect, that don't show intersexed traits outdoors but do indoors. I do not know of 1 incident where a strain/clone/fem/ect, will show intersexed traits outdoors but will not indoors, Anyone?

Do you know why the landrace lines you speak of show intersexed traits indoors? Because the indoor environment is stressful to them because it's not what they are used to, no matter how "pimped out" you think your grow room is. They have adapted or acclimated to certain elements and situations, many of which we probably aren't even aware of. To think your indoor grow room is less stressful to them compared to where they were created and grown is preposterous.

Just a note here 14/10 veg works good for all I have tried.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

stagger lee, as much as I tried to help you, you still have a big burr up your ass.
Look, I'm not even going to parse any more of this with you because you obviously have no clue what we are trying to convey here. Male sexual expression in a feminized seed is dealing with the intersex trait, and absolutely nothing to do with forcing a plant from feminized progeny to become a male...study that, get that through your skull...and then get back to us.

I sort of thought that with your persistence you may actually have a passion for the truth, but it seems you are simply on a fools campaign.
Actually lots of good has come from the ignorance that you and others have displayed here, since it has sparked lots of discussion, and those viewing this who are indeed of the passionate type will gain some wisdom from this thread.

Jr, I haven't given you any negative rep.

 

[stagger lee]

stagger lee, as much as I tried to help you, you still have a big burr up your ass.
Look, I'm not even going to parse any more of this with you because you obviously have no clue what we are trying to convey here. Male sexual expression in a feminized seed is dealing with the intersex trait, and absolutely nothing to do with forcing a plant from feminized progeny to become a male...study that, get that through your skull...and then get back to us

this is some funny ass shit! This is more BS you keep tryn to throw out. I never made any sort of claim you twot! Youve painted yourself in a corner, better get your buddies in here to save whats left of our foot! You repeat certain facts that I dont disagree with, in an attempt to look less of a jackass! You know more than Greg Green(written several books)? And all the homework, ect he put into his books. All excuses! all these breeders arent doing feminized the correct way? why not? its in their best interest to create good fem seeds for their custi's right? wow you must be an incredibly smart MF?

POST # 319 somes up this entire thread! You were proven outright wrong, and I knew regardless of your promise you would never admit it. Which means imo your name is shit. You guys throw shit out here that I never once said. fuckn smoke screen. You keep tryn to say the same thing over and over. And throwing a fact or two in it.

Quote me saying any of that shit. like I said your few posts and my # 319 basically sums up the real truth and debate.

Keep making shit up that I said, cause you have no other choice!
Oh and thank you for your help in trying to teach me the real deal. WE who the fuckis we?lol! hoosier I see why so many dislike you.you couldnt be more ignorant,your head could not be any bigger. You know nothing about me yet you talk as though your on some kind of expert.

Youve posted so many times on this thread, the same stupid shit.Prooven you wrong #346 lol! We disagree obviously so just push the fuck on already! Too each his own right?

 

[hoosierdaddy]

lol...you get no more, stagger. Have fun!

 

[JackTheGrower]

Although included in light dept, found revegging females or males seemed to be a very strong factor for stress
best all

If you don't mind what were the conditions they were re-veged under?

 

[JackTheGrower]

We also need to remember that the plant is alive. How it senses it's environment may effect it's hormones and such. That in turn could influence traits that are passed to seeds.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Also WTF is up w/new and inexperienced growers thinkn Lowryder is the holy grail of pot?!

If hoosier is really gone (which he never really is ) I'd like to address an even more pressing issue!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

POST # 346 somes up this entire thread! You were prooven outright wrong, and I knew regardless of your promise you would never admit it. Which means imo your name is shit. You guys throw shit out here that I never once said. fuckn smoke screen. Hoosier I now chalenge you to find anywhere in this thread what you are claiming what Ive said. You keep tryn to say the same thing over and over. And throwing a fact or two in it.

Quote me saying any of that shit. like I said your few posts and my # 346 basically sums up the real truth and debate.

hoosier I see why so many dislike you.you couldnt be more ignorant,your head could not be any bigger. You know nothing about me yet you talk as though your on some kind of expert.

Youve posted so many times on this thread, the same stupid shit.Prooven you wrong #346 lol! We disagree obviously so just push the fuck on already! Too each his own right?

stagger lee,
You keep quoting Greg Green like he is some kind of genetics expert, but in this case Greg is just plain wrong...
Cannabis is X/Y determined, and anyone that thinks otherwise needs to rethink their opinion, or get an education. If you think the environment can modify sex, do you think it can modify all Cannabis? Even if the Cannabis has no inter-sex trait expression ever?
Maybe, just maybe the traits for inter-sex are inheritable? That would explain why all most all feminized seeds show inter-sex plants, because one or more of the parents had them and they were inherited and expressed in the progeny.

BTW, Tom Hill agrees with Hoos...

-SamS

 

[Dalaihempy]

Value of Sexual Reproduction Versus Asexual Reproduction
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/01/100121161238.htm

Plant Breeding Breakthrough: Offspring With Genes from Only One Parent
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100324142012.htm

Cloned Crops Closer To Being Realized
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090608204055.htm


Sam i was reading a science article from 1931 think from a Russia researcher in short they were running experiments on sexual out comes from shading greenhouses to see if different light periods would affect sexual out comes in Cannabis sativas and they found that different light / shading produced different % of male to female out comes i think the best they achieved was 95 or 98 % .

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Value of Sexual Reproduction Versus Asexual Reproduction
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/01/100121161238.htm

Plant Breeding Breakthrough: Offspring With Genes from Only One Parent
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100324142012.htm

Cloned Crops Closer To Being Realized
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090608204055.htm


Sam i was reading a science article from 1931 think from a Russia researcher in short they were running experiments on sexual out comes from shading greenhouses to see if different light periods would affect sexual out comes in Cannabis sativas and they found that different light / shading produced different % of male to female out comes i think the best they achieved was 95 or 98 % .

I suggest the plants were hemp and they had inter-sex genes or traits and that is why the environmental changes caused different sexual expressions. Much hemp used is monoecious, that could also be the cause, as of course they have inter-sex genes.

-SamS

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Hempy, the first article you cited is one that piques my interest. I have always wondered, as I am sure others have, about if we are robbing the plants of important genetic information when we force a fem for pollen. It is possible that we are not passing along genetic material that is male specific and cannot be passed on by any female.
Although my own laymen logic tells me that the intersex gene may be the reason we may not actually be robbing the plant of essential genetic material.
But IMO, that issue could possibly hold the key to your voodoo, if any exists.
There has to be good reason that sexual reproduction far outnumbers the occurrences of asexual reproduction on the planet. The researchers may find some keys that could eventually help us understand better.
But as far as the topic concerns us and our hobby/passion, we have not seen first hand any detrimental effects of feminizing for seeds. You could say that the hermie issue is one, but that can all be explained by the selection process and what we already know for fact. And that issue is absolutely NO different for feminized progeny, than it is for regular bred progeny. No difference at all.

And not to be an echo chamber, but it all boils down to selection of the parental stock and what those parents hold in their genetic map that will be used by the progeny, nothing more, nothing less.
Chose unstable parental stock and guess what the progeny will be like...?
Chose stable parents, even if one is forced to produce pollen chemically, and guess what the progeny will be like...?
Suppose I use two unrelated females for a forcing, both are known to be dioecious females that do not have the intersex gene in their maps? True breeding females....
Just where would hermie come from? Has to be voodoo or magic, yes?
And just how would I find these two true breeding females?
SELECTION!

 

[Texicannibus]

My guess and its only that ... is that the genes probably have 'switch' genes. I forget the actual technical term but they are genes that will dictate other genes ability to come forward. What I was reading was explaining how a flower might have a 'switch' gene that says the flower can have color, then another gene for wich color. If the switch gene is off then regardless of what color the flower should be it will be white. So in my opinion it may be possible to find plants with the main 'switch' gene off. Other genetic triggers for intersex parts may not matter if so.

 

[englishrick]

I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO ECHO

"INTERSEXED-EXPRESHION IS A MATTER OF INHERITANCE",,!!!!!!!

"INHERITANCE IS A MATTER OF SELECTION"..!!!!!!

lee bro,,sam is givin you all the right info!,,,,tom is givin you all the right info!,,,,,,,hoos might be getting on your nerves, but the truth is hoos is just slaping you in the face with the right info!!,,,,an only good-people are usaly are so direct!!

bro,,even im givin you all the right info!,,,,




if you believe you can "you will",,,,if you believe you cant "you wont",,,,,ither way ,,,,,you are right!!!

 

[Tom Hill]

I completely agree w/this!

Good,

Then you are an enlightened convert. Can we assume that no longer will you make/spread comments such as "fems are more likely to herm" etc (?) for those comments at their core are in absolute conflict with what you are now saying that you completely agree with.

If you have witnessed a male or herms from feminized, or broad differences in M/F ratios under different environments, it is because parental genotype/s had sex-modifying genes in their make-up. There is no other explanation, and there is zero cause to blame the method as far as F/F vs F/M when intersexed plants show in the progeny.

One thing that "feminized" seed has shown, is just how prevalent these modifying factors are in the gene pool. Attacking them kinda seems to me to be at the peril of cannabis, for we are probably talking about a massive% of cannabis that must have them - but that's another thread. Breeding to "strongly" female plants seems to me a responsible direction, regardless of method. -T

 

[TheGerm]

Those that know should teach not rub peoples nose in shit !

Those that know should teach not rub peoples nose in shit !

From Jorge Cervantes-Growers Bilble:

Environmental factors start influencing sex the moment the seedling has three pairs of true leaves (not counting cotylendons). Environmental factors that influence sex determination of cannabis include but are not limited to:
increasing the level of nitrogen, lowering nitrogen, an increase level of potassium, lowering the level of potassium, low temperatures, high humidity, grow medium low moisture, more blue light, more red light, fewer hours of light, more hours of light, any environmental stress.

Ed Rosenthal:

Cannabis is unique among annuals in having male and female characteristics on separate plants. Its other sexual charateristics are unusual, too. For the most part, its sex is determined by x and y chromosomes. "However", there is also an autosomal response, which has an effect.
In addition to sexual information found on the x- and y- chromosmes, the other cromosomes, called autosomes, also affect sexual response. Some of the DNA in these autosomes gets turned on only under certain circumstances. Stress could be one of those events.
My theory is that "MOST" cannabis plants are genetically male or female. "HOWEVER", certain stress conditions such as long dark regimens at germintion, irregular lighting during flowering, drought, or nutrient stress, turns on DNA in the autosomes and induces maleness. Studies show that under stress conditions a higher proportion of males and hermaphrodites are produced in a given poportion. Some female cannabis plants are naturally hermaphrodites. Their autosomes are turned on all the time so they produce reproductive organs of both sexes.

Now since what I have read on my neg rep,and the comments I have recieved on this thread for being a dumbass I wonder if the know it alls can enlighten me.

So your telling me that those that breed fem seeds put so much time and effort and have such genetic expertise as to breed out any of the above and the autosomal response ? Or are they just spraying some shit on a plant and calling it good ?



TheGerm

 

[englishrick]

lol

this is so funny,,,,,peoples hatered for hermis is like racism,,,dont be afraid of it,,,dont try and kill racizm or hermis,,love everything,,,thats the bigger power

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

From Jorge Cervantes-Growers Bilble:

Environmental factors start influencing sex the moment the seedling has three pairs of true leaves (not counting cotylendons). Environmental factors that influence sex determination of cannabis include but are not limited to:
increasing the level of nitrogen, lowering nitrogen, an increase level of potassium, lowering the level of potassium, low temperatures, high humidity, grow medium low moisture, more blue light, more red light, fewer hours of light, more hours of light, any environmental stress.

Ed Rosenthal:

Cannabis is unique among annuals in having male and female characteristics on separate plants. Its other sexual charateristics are unusual, too. For the most part, its sex is determined by x and y chromosomes. "However", there is also an autosomal response, which has an effect.
In addition to sexual information found on the x- and y- chromosmes, the other cromosomes, called autosomes, also affect sexual response. Some of the DNA in these autosomes gets turned on only under certain circumstances. Stress could be one of those events.
My theory is that "MOST" cannabis plants are genetically male or female. "HOWEVER", certain stress conditions such as long dark regimens at germintion, irregular lighting during flowering, drought, or nutrient stress, turns on DNA in the autosomes and induces maleness. Studies show that under stress conditions a higher proportion of males and hermaphrodites are produced in a given poportion. Some female cannabis plants are naturally hermaphrodites. Their autosomes are turned on all the time so they produce reproductive organs of both sexes.

Now since what I have read on my neg rep,and the comments I have recieved on this thread for being a dumbass I wonder if the know it alls can enlighten me.

So your telling me that those that breed fem seeds put so much time and effort and have such genetic expertise as to breed out any of the above and the autosomal response ? Or are they just spraying some shit on a plant and calling it good ?

Too bad what I heard about this place before I joined seems to be true.

TheGerm

The plants that change sex due to environment stress are the ones you don't want to use for breeding, unless you want to pass on the trait. It just is as easy as that, select for plants that don't show inter-sex traits, it helps if you can grow enough plants to have a few or few hundred to select from, Tom has the right attitude, as far as I can see.

-SamS