Why aren´t more of you growing ROLS

[Frozenguy]

I don't think EC is of any concern when growing in organic soil. I'd top dress with a healthy amount of worm castings and water in some kelp and molasses through it.

I had to break my tds meter out of a box at the bottom of my storage closet lol. I haven't used it in so long. But I decided I should get some idea of what the soil was putting out since it's a new adventure recycling this soil and it's at a new spot.

I was worried it was a bunch of Mg/Ca/other stuff precipitated out but I'm thinking it's residual molasses. The water comes with an almost burnt caramel hue. That stuff always sent the meter off the charts.

The plants are still looking good. Honestly, I think they were hungry. Even though I'm reusing this soil, I don't feed in the last couple weeks of flower and I didn't add anything to this when I put it back into service. So it's got to be devoid of nutes.

I had a tea running for ~30 hours prior to yesterday evening so I transplanted into bigger pots (nice white roots were growing down along the walls and bottom of the cups) and watered with some tea. It's a light tea. I'll hit them again with another tea if they show improvement, which I'm expecting. Let me snap more pics and i'll post them up.

 

[Frozenguy]

Ok so here is one with 4 true nodes (4th is emerging) on the 21st


And here it is this morning the 24th. It's looking even better now. I had just transplanted it the night before on the 23rd and given it a light tea.

 

[milkyjoe]

There is another source of N from bacteria/archaea being consumed by protozoa. This is unrelated to N fixing bacteria. It is a factor of having a high enough bacteria/archaea popultion to feed protozoa which will utilize 10 to 40% of the energy for sustanence and expell 60 to 90% of the energy as bio-available (ionic) N.

The bacteria feed on organic matter and the can derive the fuel needed from compost.

When you say ionic are you talking nitrate or ammonical? NO3 or NH3 or 4?

 

[milkyjoe]

I searched but can't find an answer that I feel really applies to my situation.

I decided to try and recycle some peat/EWC/perlite mix from a previous grow. All I used were guano/EWC/kelp teas. The teas had molasses added.

I tested the runoff of some of the soil and the EC is beyond 3.6. Had to dilute it maybe 6:1 with water before it read around 2.4 EC

I have hard water, maybe 450 ppm.

My bag seed testers have stopped growing after a few weeks.
I can make up new soil like I always do, and probably will, but I still want to figure this out for the future.

Any ideas? It's not over/under water, or my environment, etc.
Only thing different is recycled soil vs new batch. Even the bag seed testers are from the same group i always use.

I follow the EC of my soil with the Hanna soil activity meter. My grow never went above about 0.4 EC and is finishing under 0.1. Remember you only need very little soluble ions at a time, just what the plant needs. The rest you want what they call available but not soluble...that is attached to a cec site or complexed with the humus and/or clay. You want the plant to send root exudates to feed the microbes and then you want the microbes, or the pH of the exudates to go fetch what the plant needs from that reserve.

With a living soil you definitely do not want to get anywhere near that much soluble salt running around. It is sure death for microbes.

What is in your mix?

 

[Microbeman]

With natural or organic growing, N ( R-NH2 ) for the plant is contained (sequestered) in a non-soluble (non-ionic) form in organic matter (or in the case of the gardener; compost and other soil foods). It is true that there are certain known bacteria (and now some archaea) which directly fix and supply ionic forms of N to the roots of plants and this is an area where ‘we’ are still learning so all is not known by any stretch. However soil scientists have discovered and it is common knowledge (as knowledge goes) that the bulk of NH4+ and NO3- are delivered to the roots of plants by protozoa (flagellates, amoebae and ciliates). This occurs in a complex network ostensibly, controlled in large degree by the plant. The plant releases compounds from the roots which feed B/A (bacteria/archaea), thereby increasing the B/A population. The B/A consumes/processes forms of R-NH2 or forms which are pre-degraded by fungi and or other B/A. The B/A further multiply with a good supply of food and their large population encourages the excysting (hatching from cysts) and dividing of protozoa. The protozoa prey upon the B/A and in an approximate 30 minute period complete the excretion of NH4+ and/or NO3- available to the roots of the plants. Apparently protozoa only utilize 30 to 40 [corrected to 10 to 40%] percent of the nutrient consumed making 60 to 70% [corrected to 60 to 90%] available to plants and many have a division cycle of 2 hours so the efficiency of this nutrient delivery system is considerable. Just as it began, the microbial N cycle can be rapidly shut down by chemical emissions from the plant. It is apparent that the nutrient needs of the plant can change within short periods (perhaps in hours). There is much yet unknown, however I hypothesize that even disease control may be effected by a sudden reduction of N in the rhizosphere. This is certainly something which cannot be effectively manipulated by chemical N applications.

From Microbe Organics

 

[EclipseFour20]

Here is some bacteria info that I gleaned from my Raw Milk research---which kinda goes along with Microbeman's post.

1. Soil will have between 3-4,000# of bacteria per acre (this can vary depending on sprays, soil type, temps etc...)

2. Bacteria are 90% protein

3. One can calculate/estimate the amount of nitrogen, potassium and phosphorous by knowing the bacteria counts. Typically speaking bacteria counts will result in 10-14% nitrogen, 1% potassium and 3% phosphorous.

4. The bacteria that are most influential in growth live in in the top 6" of the oil.

5. Many thousands of different bacteria live in the soil

6. Bacteria need a balanced nutrition for good growth. Raw Milk is the perfect food.

7. Some of the bacteria will double the counts/weight every 15 minutes with the proper nutrition and temps (55 degrees F or better)

8. it does not take much for the bacteria to naturally put out 140 lb's of nitrogen per acre..and other nutrients.

Source: http://www.greenpasture.org/utility/showArticle/?ObjectID=7037&find=milk&happ=siteAdministrator

Natural NPK?...yep! Cheers!

 

[Frozenguy]

The seedlings are looking great. Progressing a bit slowly up top, but are pushing nice white roots out the bottom of 6" pots so I'm expecting them to blow up soon.

Plus, these seeds are from my BOG sour bubble and DJ Short blue berry so a bit of a slow veg shouldn't alarm me I guess.