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What to do with people that do nothing??

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Red Fang

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no YOU right-wingers only see what you want to see and nothing will convince you otherwise. According to you, most people who do not work like it that way and are lazy. Are you nuts? Who likes just barely scraping by? My mom got cancer when she was 35 and had 2 young children and a well-educated husband who left her at her sickest and went on welfare to avoid child support. Both were on welfare, only my mom needed it. He was able to claim disibility for something silly like flat feet, and she was too weak to work but could not get on disability. No one would hire her despite her also being educated, because they did not want to hire a cancer patient. My father was scum, and granted there are others like him. But the vast majority are like my mom. And she had to endure condescending assholes (like you) everywhere: cashiers that gave her dirty looks, those that looked down on the freebie clothes she wore, and even some who worked in the welfare office. She needed good medical insurance with her condition. Back then, the insurance was better than most private insurance. So, she gradually recovered and maybe stayed on longer than she had to. Finally, she found a job that could support her in her mid 50's. It was so stressful that she developed heart disease and died at 65 before she could retire (well actually she was forced to retire just over a year earlier because of her health but had planned to work at least a year beyond that and then ENJOY her retirement). You assholes would have disconnected her life support and put her back to work. Again, you are the scum.

The point? Some NEED to be on welfare, and some have no alternative, and some are mentally ill (most who "choose" to be on it probably are in this category). Some are just trapped by circumstances like my mom was. Who are you to judge others you don't even know. You are just assuming, I bet 99% of you don't know one person well enough to assert what you are asserting about them. Do you even know if they are on welfare? Maybe they sell weed!

You just want every penny for yourself. Who in theory doesn't? But most of us who have grown up realize we have a responsibility to pay for things to make our society work and that includes helping those who can't yet help themselves. If you were willing to pay more taxes and not less, or cut military spending, you could pay to give those people the counseling or retraining or education so they can get something they can live on. If we do things your way, what just let them starve? Including kids who are there due to no fault of their own? If they eliminate taxes, are you going to give more than what you paid in taxes to charity? I didn't think so. I bet you are all rich, not willing to shoulder your fair share of the people, while people who make $30k give a far larger chunk of their income. If you had your way, there would eventually be 10 people that own the whole world and everyone else would be starving or locked in perpetual civil war. You make me sick!
 

SpasticGramps

Don't Drone Me, Bro!
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Like said, you make a convincing emotional argument. Typical guilt trip emotional argument. And that's good that you want to help needy people. In doing so you will eventually bankrupt your country because the politicians will promise each generation more and more and eventually will not be able to pay. And then all these entitlements that people have gotten use to will start getting cut and be taken away and nobody will get anything. Look at Greece. A socialist dream. Bankrupt and on the verge of collapse. And so will we be soon. Spain, Italy, and Portugal are right behind. And unfortunately you can't blame that on the Republicans.

Entitlements may make you feel warm and fuzzy and there are certainly some people who need assistance, but it will always get out of hand and they will always be taken away because the state coffers will be emptied as politicians buy votes with freebies.

I'm making a logical fiscal argument for long term viability of the state. You are making a short term emotional guilt trip based argument. I may make you sick, but in the long term you are doing the poor and needy a disservice and history proves me right.
 

SpasticGramps

Don't Drone Me, Bro!
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Veteran
Similar thing happened to me, was laid-off in a leveraged buyout in 1992. There were a few offers to go to Dallas but I passed and drew unemployment for ~90 days and found a job that didn't require an additional job, just to pay bills. I didn't ask myself about the moral implications because I've worked the majority of my life and paid into the same system that assisted others. Didn't ride assistance for what then amounted to 6 months, so long as I fulfilled the obligations. My financial incentive was to go back to work and draw a far better salary than assistance provides.
My father collected unemployment while I was in college. For several months. I'm not against fiscally sound small safety nets. I'm certainly not against taking care of indigent people either. I believe it should be the sole responsibility of the state not feds IMO.

I can't say that I believe our over all entitlement system is logical though. I believe it's bankrupt. SS, Medi, and interest on the debt will soon be all we can pay for. Sooner than I think most would like to admit IMO. I guess the good news is that we won't be able to afford fight any more wars.
 

DiscoBiscuit

weed fiend
Veteran
Yeah, the opposition keeps throwing up Wrongway Feldman at quarterback. The rich keep scoring and the economy tanks. Wouldn't have a beef with em getting rich if they generated a little more domestic manufacturing.
 

SpasticGramps

Don't Drone Me, Bro!
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Red Dude. You wanna be pissed off and go beat someone's door down go to Bank of America. They are burning your country down and, unlike in Afghanistan were the government actually arrests the executives of corrupt banks, Bank of America just got charged $8.5b for systemic fraudulent mortgage activity. That's right. That's pissing in the ocean to them. No one goes to jail.

Goldman Sachs destroys your country? $500 million fine for killing the middle class.

I just can't get over that. They arrested many of the executives of the failed Kabul bank in Afghanistan for fraud. The head of the central bank flees to the USA. You can't make it up.
 

Cojito

Active member
I'm making a logical fiscal argument for long term viability of the state. You are making a short term emotional guilt trip based argument. I may make you sick, but in the long term you are doing the poor and needy a disservice and history proves me right.

bullshit. republicans (Bush/Reagan) ignored sound economic advice and gave tax cuts to the rich, creating massive debt and killing our economy. current republicans/teabaggers have refused to restore those same tax cuts to previous levels and that is further exacerbating the problem. ya, we need to prune the fat from time to time, and maybe its time to tweak welfare reform, but we also need to get real and raise enough revenue to pay for our wars and shit.
 

SpasticGramps

Don't Drone Me, Bro!
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Here's an idea. STOP KILLING EVERYBODY OVERSEAS. Fuck all these wars and the reasons we rationalize them. Fuck Bush and Regan and the whole lot of jokers.
 

bentom187

Active member
Veteran
bullshit. republicans (Bush/Reagan) ignored sound economic advice and gave tax cuts to the rich, creating massive debt and killing our economy. current republicans/teabaggers have refused to restore those same tax cuts to previous levels and that is further exacerbating the problem. ya, we need to prune the fat from time to time, and maybe its time to tweak welfare reform, but we also need to get real and raise enough revenue to pay for our wars and shit.

LOL, i love how people ignore their own observations and read history about who was responsable for what ,if you wernt there you dont know,espeacially because history is written by the victor otherwise there would be revolt everywhere.
you want war wtf ? you obviously havnt been effected by it.if you have then your opinion needlesly effects others, and you know first hand and still endorse it.
 

Red Fang

Active member
Veteran
Here's an idea. STOP KILLING EVERYBODY OVERSEAS. Fuck all these wars and the reasons we rationalize them. Fuck Bush and Regan and the whole lot of jokers.
now there's something we can agree on! Stop spending money on wars and put that to use funding alternative energy, space, and programs that help people find good income sources (not necessarily jobs, maybe your own business or something creative out of the rat race).
 

Red Fang

Active member
Veteran
speaking of that SOB Reagan, I was growing up when he and supporters kept making cuts to programs like the one my mom needed to survive. We were barely surviving and these jokers thought we could just eat one meal a day or something. Not an emotional argument, for us it was survival. I wonder how many of those who knock welfare or those on it have actually been that poor themselves. And in case you haven't noticed, capitalism hasn't exactly been thriving lately either. It works as long as there is a strong and large middle class, but with widening wealth gaps, capitalism is doomed. The greedy are a worse threat to the economic system than outside goverments or systems have ever been. Much more dangerous than terrorism.
 

Happy 7

Member
What to do with people that do nothing??

soylent-green.jpg
 

Cojito

Active member
LOL, i love how people ignore their own observations and read history about who was responsable for what ,if you wernt there you dont know,espeacially because history is written by the victor otherwise there would be revolt everywhere.
you want war wtf ? you obviously havnt been effected by it.if you have then your opinion needlesly effects others, and you know first hand and still endorse it.

you're right, i wasn't there. but those republican tax cuts, (voodoo economics Bush sr called it), are a matter public record. its also public knowlege that Reagan, Bush sr, and Bush jr used the social security surplus to cover shortfalls due to these tax cuts. and that my friend was illegal as fuck.
 

joeuser

Member
Yeah, the opposition keeps throwing up Wrongway Feldman at quarterback. The rich keep scoring and the economy tanks. Wouldn't have a beef with em getting rich if they generated a little more domestic manufacturing.

Thank your government...remember Ross Perot? He said what would happen...and it did. Did YOU vote for him? Or did you vote for your usual Dem/Rep lackey?

You government via the rich who put them there...screwed you.

Manufacturing will come back when the labor laws go away, when the regulations go away, when Americans will accept half the pay they've been getting...when hell freezes over!

We priced ourselves out of the global market.

no YOU right-wingers only see what you want to see and nothing will convince you otherwise. According to you, most people who do not work like it that way and are lazy. Are you nuts? Who likes just barely scraping by? My mom got cancer when she was 35 and had 2 young children and a well-educated husband who left her at her sickest and went on welfare to avoid child support. Both were on welfare, only my mom needed it. He was able to claim disibility for something silly like flat feet, and she was too weak to work but could not get on disability. No one would hire her despite her also being educated, because they did not want to hire a cancer patient. My father was scum, and granted there are others like him. But the vast majority are like my mom. And she had to endure condescending assholes (like you) everywhere: cashiers that gave her dirty looks, those that looked down on the freebie clothes she wore, and even some who worked in the welfare office. She needed good medical insurance with her condition. Back then, the insurance was better than most private insurance. So, she gradually recovered and maybe stayed on longer than she had to. Finally, she found a job that could support her in her mid 50's. It was so stressful that she developed heart disease and died at 65 before she could retire (well actually she was forced to retire just over a year earlier because of her health but had planned to work at least a year beyond that and then ENJOY her retirement). You assholes would have disconnected her life support and put her back to work. Again, you are the scum.

The point? Some NEED to be on welfare, and some have no alternative, and some are mentally ill (most who "choose" to be on it probably are in this category). Some are just trapped by circumstances like my mom was. Who are you to judge others you don't even know. You are just assuming, I bet 99% of you don't know one person well enough to assert what you are asserting about them. Do you even know if they are on welfare? Maybe they sell weed!

You just want every penny for yourself. Who in theory doesn't? But most of us who have grown up realize we have a responsibility to pay for things to make our society work and that includes helping those who can't yet help themselves. If you were willing to pay more taxes and not less, or cut military spending, you could pay to give those people the counseling or retraining or education so they can get something they can live on. If we do things your way, what just let them starve? Including kids who are there due to no fault of their own? If they eliminate taxes, are you going to give more than what you paid in taxes to charity? I didn't think so. I bet you are all rich, not willing to shoulder your fair share of the people, while people who make $30k give a far larger chunk of their income. If you had your way, there would eventually be 10 people that own the whole world and everyone else would be starving or locked in perpetual civil war. You make me sick!

It's not my problem...I shouldn't be strong armed into paying for you. Shit happens to people every day...is it MY responsibility to fix your problems? you seem to miss the point of "freedom". You live your life and I live mine. I'm NOT held responsible for yours and you're not held responsible for mine.

If there were less of you it wouldn't be so bad...but there are now 45 million expecting food handouts...there are millions expecting free housing...there are millions living on welfare...living off of MY labor.

If taxes weren't close to 50% (when you add up income tax, gas tax, sales tax, all the fees we pay) maybe I would give more to charity...right now I feel I'm already giving half of everything to the "government charity".

It seems you did OK...you're here on a computer, having a good time...so what's the problem? You wanted MORE? you didn't get enough? Do YOU give big time money and support through volunteering for the poor? Just asking...hypocrisy is rampent these days!

bullshit. republicans (Bush/Reagan) ignored sound economic advice and gave tax cuts to the rich, creating massive debt and killing our economy. current republicans/teabaggers have refused to restore those same tax cuts to previous levels and that is further exacerbating the problem. ya, we need to prune the fat from time to time, and maybe its time to tweak welfare reform, but we also need to get real and raise enough revenue to pay for our wars and shit.

Nothing in there about the Dems...pretty one sided my friend!

It's time we tweak our political system before it destroys us.

Welfare will NEVER be "reformed"...because we'll NEVER let the "poor innocent children" suffer. As long as mom has children...she'll be supported...and she knows this. Women get a free ride if/when they pump out a kid. Men get punished for their bad decisions...women get a house, medical care, food, and spending money for recklessly having a kid. Fair?
 

bentom187

Active member
Veteran
you're right, i wasn't there. but those republican tax cuts, (voodoo economics Bush sr called it), are a matter public record. its also public knowlege that Reagan, Bush sr, and Bush jr used the social security surplus to cover shortfalls due to these tax cuts. and that my friend was illegal as fuck.

dude he re-enstated the bush tax cuts.
 

DiscoBiscuit

weed fiend
Veteran
Thank your government...remember Ross Perot? He said what would happen...and it did. Did YOU vote for him? Or did you vote for your usual Dem/Rep lackey?

LOL. Perot would have ran the country like a leveraged buyout.

You government via the rich who put them there...screwed you.
Homogenize, decentralize... it's just a quirk :headbange

We know the players. We know who spent into consistent deficits and we know who racked up consistent surpluses. One side pays the bills and the other side shoots holes in the boat.

Manufacturing will come back when the labor laws go away, when the regulations go away, when Americans will accept half the pay they've been getting...when hell freezes over!

We priced ourselves out of the global market.
Americans will settle for fair compensation and safe working conditions. Even organized labor requests profit data before negotiating contracts. Nobody's dumb enough to ask for more than is sustainable except Wall Street.

Global trade forces us to innovate. Up to this point, we've innovated productivity to an art and not much else. Bad thing about better productivity is less employment.

Others' will eventually make for themselves the things we don't.

It's not my problem...I shouldn't be strong armed into paying for you. Shit happens to people every day...is it MY responsibility to fix your problems? you seem to miss the point of "freedom". You live your life and I live mine. I'm NOT held responsible for yours and you're not held responsible for mine.

If there were less of you it wouldn't be so bad...but there are now 45 million expecting food handouts...there are millions expecting free housing...there are millions living on welfare...living off of MY labor.
Your labor is subsidized with enough no-profit services you'd have even less money paying the private sector for:

mail

gas

roads

sewers

utilities

Those alone would tank your piggy bank after paying private profits. We used to call these folks robber barons, charging exorbitant profits for dire need. You really need to brush up on economics and how monumental services are provided far cheaper than private business.

If taxes weren't close to 50% (when you add up income tax, gas tax, sales tax, all the fees we pay) maybe I would give more to charity...right now I feel I'm already giving half of everything to the "government charity".

Check your state expenditures vs receipts before you claim I'm bending your nickle, lol. That's right, some states get back more than they pay. A red state might an indication other blue states are assisting you, lol.

Rick Perry paid off a $6 billion shortfall with $9 billion in stimulus and claimed Texas wasn't in a recession because they had a $3 billion surplus.:D

You're exactly like I mentioned to gramps. I'm not on fuckin' assistance but you still play that you-vs-me game. You see, I know the economics of surpluses, how they're obtained and in what amount. Only to be squandered by the side that want's to widen the disparity even further.

It seems you did OK...you're here on a computer, having a good time...so what's the problem? You wanted MORE? you didn't get enough? Do YOU give big time money and support through volunteering for the poor? Just asking...hypocrisy is rampent these days!

Nothing in there about the Dems...pretty one sided my friend!

It's time we tweak our political system before it destroys us.

Welfare will NEVER be "reformed"...because we'll NEVER let the "poor innocent children" suffer. As long as mom has children...she'll be supported...and she knows this. Women get a free ride if/when they pump out a kid. Men get punished for their bad decisions...women get a house, medical care, food, and spending money for recklessly having a kid. Fair?

As long as you you-vs-me the issues, you'll never look toward voting your best economic interests. You're right, we'll never go back to the days we've already experienced, knew the economic consequences and paid far more compared to GDP than we're doing now. Clinton cut more government and welfare roles than any other president and you refuse to even tweak your own rhetoric.

I don't argue this subject from a personal standpoint. I'd like to see more employment, the kind that's sustainable and carries benefits for the people that make their businesses profitable. And since business is sitting on more cash than the history of our country, they could do a little more of what business does. You know? Innovate and manufacture. We may have lost respective industries for good but we can innovate more to make up for it. Americans are fair they'll accept fair compensation. But you're ignoring the 20:1 economic swing (to the top) in the last 3 decades.

You just argue that tired philosophy that never intended nor intends to raise the tide, only a few boats. You may never lose that core belief but you may find yourself on the wrong side of the economic tracks.
 

Cojito

Active member
Nothing in there about the Dems...pretty one sided my friend!

fair enough. democratic president Bill Clinton pushed through a deficit reduction packaged (no republicans voted for it. - they said it would ruin the economy.), that raised taxes and cut spending. he also passed welfare reform, created jobs, and had the first budget surplus is 40 years. under Clinton deficits grew smaller and smaller, the economy got stronger and stronger. and he still had time to get his dick sucked by an intern. happy now?
 
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