Cojito
Active member
"he" who?
What to do with people that do nothing??
- Thread starter JOJO420
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"he" who?
Obama signed the re-extension after Congress did their part.
Hate to be persnickety but neither Carter, Johnson nor Kennedy left deficits.
Hate to be persnickety but neither Carter, Johnson nor Kennedy left deficits.
Cojito
Active member
for real? i did not know that.
I do not have a problem with differences in opinion but I do have a problem with people talking down to others and acting like they have the right to decide who has the right to life. Before I go on, I must know, I have your permission to live right?
Thank you so much! And yeah not being bullied for something that was not my fault would have been nice, as would have been something other than franks and mac/cheese every night and peanut butter sandwiches at lunch. The government cheese was so good though and the powdered milk, thank you for that! Not only is is morally reprehensible and irresponsible to not have safety nets, but there's also one big problem, it will not work in the real world. You cannot have no taxes or drastically lower taxes without making up the shortfall somehow. If you can agree there needs to be help for those who need it, I can agree that some do not need it and abuse the system. If we can make the government more efficient, we'd both be happy. Talk about impossible right? I object to cuts that hurt people, but the welfare system could be more efficient and encourage a transition to independence for those that can be. But we cannot pick and choose how our tax money is spent, we'd all like to think we could and voting one way or another might have a small impact. In the end however, you have to pay taxes whether you like it or not and then they decide how to spend it. You want cuts to the poor and others in vulnerable positions, which will only make matters worse in the long run. It would result in worse health and then epidemics won't choose who to kill based on income, they are very democratic that way! I wouldn't mind seeing military spending drastically reduced, the Soviet Union is long gone after all, we do not need bases all over the globe and endless costly wars (the Korean war technically is not over and we still have like 50,000 troops there, and still haven't withdrawn all the troops from Germany from WW2!). I would like to see drug war funding eliminated, and all those silly pork projects eliminated. But I would like the proceeds to be responsibly spent to help people and pay down the debt, and then give tax breaks to those who need it most first. But they don't allow you to select on what things you want your taxes spent on and what you don't.
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In~Plain~Site
Was just at the grocery store, sure enough I was behind someone paying with an assistance card...she had to put her iPhone4 down to dig gingerly through her Gucci bag, she didn't want to break her freshly manicured nails...she had less than 15 items, but paid for those items with no less than 4 separate transactions...bagged separately of course.
I happened to see her in the parking lot...nice Infinity...
I think the people getting on their soapboxes about this issue are conflating use with abuse.
And yes, I think we (the taxpayers) should have a say so in what constitutes each
I happened to see her in the parking lot...nice Infinity...
I think the people getting on their soapboxes about this issue are conflating use with abuse.
And yes, I think we (the taxpayers) should have a say so in what constitutes each
Disco is right. We need to get rid of the us vs them mentality. We are all human, we all therefore have our constitutional rights, and we are all in this together. We came to be sentient and the dominant species on this planet not by having an us vs them mentality and survival of the fittest but by cooperation and helping each other out. Sure we had wars and competition and all kinds of ugly acts, but it was the unity and cooperation that helped us get past that and where we are today. The world is far from a perfect place, but it would be a lot worse and we'd still be stuck in the middle ages if it weren't for cooperation.
Not at all, IPS. You're basically doing the polar opposite by characterizing the macro in your own, special way.
That certainly doesn't describe most on welfare. That is wrong of course, but a sign of someone who found a way to abuse the system somehow to get far more than most would. If you think most welfare people live in luxury you are seriously deluded.
Yes I think we should have a say too, but if taken to the extreme and everyone is saying they want this and don't want that and you have all this conflicting goals, nothing would ever get done and it would be chaos. Kind of what you have now to a lesser extent, where the Republicans are being obstructionists, not bringing viable ideas and not willing to compromise in the least and standing in the way of any progress. These jokers should have been all voted out of office last election instead of being rewarded for acting like pouty kids.
Yes I think we should have a say too, but if taken to the extreme and everyone is saying they want this and don't want that and you have all this conflicting goals, nothing would ever get done and it would be chaos. Kind of what you have now to a lesser extent, where the Republicans are being obstructionists, not bringing viable ideas and not willing to compromise in the least and standing in the way of any progress. These jokers should have been all voted out of office last election instead of being rewarded for acting like pouty kids.
He doesn't know nor care what card(s) were used. The Gucci, nails and Infinity are all fragments joined together in a convenient event that's supposed to suggest we're getting emotional. Getting a frame of mind to actually analyze reality depends on what's being considered.
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In~Plain~Site
So, it's not out of the realm of possibility that the scenario took place, or that people can get emotionally charged with the issue?
I have seen the scenario play out quite often, on both charges.
My point of contention is with the oh so subjective "I need" items that accompany a person in supposed "distress".
Entitlements are out of control, our priorities are out of whack...you see it another way?
I have seen the scenario play out quite often, on both charges.
My point of contention is with the oh so subjective "I need" items that accompany a person in supposed "distress".
Entitlements are out of control, our priorities are out of whack...you see it another way?
Yeah, I'll even offer within them realm of probability. I've seen low income fraud and high income fraud. I'd offer that top-down fraud costs us far more but the attention is on folks that some see as less deserving of assistance than the top 2%.
I don't know if you've ever received assistance but it's a band aid, not a living. You'd have to lose employment through no fault of your own, economically qualify and prove you're seeking employment, all the while your bills pile up and all you can afford is sustenance. But don't take my word for it. Almost anybody that's been on assistance will say the same thing, it's a temporary measure that helps achieve better micro economics that in-turn reinforce the macro.
I dislike fraud every bit as much as you. I dislike assistance fraud, corporate fraud and every fraud in between. I just don't turn a deaf ear to folks that IMO constitute the greatest numbers. They've proved they no more hire with tax cuts than 30 years of history that proves otherwise. Apparently they're emotional over their own games enough to persuade 21% of the electorate they're not regularly voting against their best economic interests when math says the exact opposite.
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In~Plain~Site
As long as these two headlines can coexist on the same day...
The shit is broken.
Just how far towards the middle, I'm sure we'll disagree on...but this picture better illustrates the scope of which I mean to address the issue.Eliminate the abuse on both ends...what's wrong with a more extensive checks & balances system? They most certainly have the manpower to do so...
I in no way mean to paint all those folks as slackers in my earlier post, we tend to speak in generalizations...until someone stops 'getting it' and questions your position further.
Nothing wrong with discourse, in fact we need more of it.
I agree. We need all views to work out the toughest problems.
IMO, we'd go a long way toward progress by working out the guest worker program/ illegal aliens, whatever they're being called these days.
All the multinationals based and selling product in the US ought to have at least one manufacturing plant in the states. Decent trade deals with Japanese automakers received manufacturing plants in the US.
IMO, the US screwed us when they allowed South Korea to export cars to our market w/o having to make some of their cars here. They're very nice cars and we need jobs. Let's get a lil' of each.
IMO, we'd go a long way toward progress by working out the guest worker program/ illegal aliens, whatever they're being called these days.
All the multinationals based and selling product in the US ought to have at least one manufacturing plant in the states. Decent trade deals with Japanese automakers received manufacturing plants in the US.
IMO, the US screwed us when they allowed South Korea to export cars to our market w/o having to make some of their cars here. They're very nice cars and we need jobs. Let's get a lil' of each.
Cojito
Active member
yep. i agree. 100%.
IMO, low level fraud is easier to enforce, the perps don't have high priced lawyers. They popped Rick Scott though, $1.7 billion fine... makes you wonder how much he actually stole.
Cojito
Active member
yep. a guest worker program might eliminate the incentive for illegal immigration. i mean, why die of thirst in the Sonoran Desert if you can just hop a bus to work at the Phoenix Wallmart? crops would get picked cheaply, we'd reduce the underground economy for illegal workers, and immigrants would have a legit path to citizenship (or amnesty for illegals), giving them less of a reason to jump the border. also, there are not enough young adults to pay into our social security ponzi scheme. guest workers paying taxes could mitigate that problem as well.
well I guess we are all friends now and agree on everything... let's all sing kumbayah now!
Seriously, it is good we are all being civil now. I have more sympathy for a homeless person stealing to survive than a rich greedy tycoon, but it would be nice if we could have something that helps the homeless and other poor people BETTER than welfare, and if you can do that cheaper fine. I think we all agree the goal of widening the middle class and ending poverty is what we should be striving for in an effective and humane manner.
Seriously, it is good we are all being civil now. I have more sympathy for a homeless person stealing to survive than a rich greedy tycoon, but it would be nice if we could have something that helps the homeless and other poor people BETTER than welfare, and if you can do that cheaper fine. I think we all agree the goal of widening the middle class and ending poverty is what we should be striving for in an effective and humane manner.
LOL. Perot would have ran the country like a leveraged buyout.
Homogenize, decentralize... it's just a quirk
We know the players. We know who spent into consistent deficits and we know who racked up consistent surpluses. One side pays the bills and the other side shoots holes in the boat.
Americans will settle for fair compensation and safe working conditions. Even organized labor requests profit data before negotiating contracts. Nobody's dumb enough to ask for more than is sustainable except Wall Street.
Global trade forces us to innovate. Up to this point, we've innovated productivity to an art and not much else. Bad thing about better productivity is less employment.
Others' will eventually make for themselves the things we don't.
Your labor is subsidized with enough no-profit services you'd have even less money paying the private sector for:
gas
roads
sewers
utilities
Those alone would tank your piggy bank after paying private profits. We used to call these folks robber barons, charging exorbitant profits for dire need. You really need to brush up on economics and how monumental services are provided far cheaper than private business.
Check your state expenditures vs receipts before you claim I'm bending your nickle, lol. That's right, some states get back more than they pay. A red state might an indication other blue states are assisting you, lol.
Rick Perry paid off a $6 billion shortfall with $9 billion in stimulus and claimed Texas wasn't in a recession because they had a $3 billion surplus.
You're exactly like I mentioned to gramps. I'm not on fuckin' assistance but you still play that you-vs-me game. You see, I know the economics of surpluses, how they're obtained and in what amount. Only to be squandered by the side that want's to widen the disparity even further.
As long as you you-vs-me the issues, you'll never look toward voting your best economic interests. You're right, we'll never go back to the days we've already experienced, knew the economic consequences and paid far more compared to GDP than we're doing now. Clinton cut more government and welfare roles than any other president and you refuse to even tweak your own rhetoric.
I don't argue this subject from a personal standpoint. I'd like to see more employment, the kind that's sustainable and carries benefits for the people that make their businesses profitable. And since business is sitting on more cash than the history of our country, they could do a little more of what business does. You know? Innovate and manufacture. We may have lost respective industries for good but we can innovate more to make up for it. Americans are fair they'll accept fair compensation. But you're ignoring the 20:1 economic swing (to the top) in the last 3 decades.
You just argue that tired philosophy that never intended nor intends to raise the tide, only a few boats. You may never lose that core belief but you may find yourself on the wrong side of the economic tracks.
So you can see the future now? You KNOW what would have happened? I wish I had your powers!
I guess you'd rather we just kept on borrowing to pay for these things that CAN'T be paid for by individuals? Why do you want to go deeper and deeper into debt as a nation to subsidize these things? If we CAN'T afford them...then we can't and we GO WITHOUT! We don't borrow more and more every year to provide things we can't afford.
The states spend too much too...they need to cut back too. Why is that a problem? If you can't afford something...you DON'T borrow to get it anyway...you go without or you save for it.
The whole country is doing this...we're paying off one loan by taking out another...how can anyone agree this is good? It's TIME to cut back!
All that cash they're sitting on is GOVERNMENT money! That's where some of those trillions we borrowed went. Business would be in the toilet now if it wasn't for FREE government money...TAKEN from the taxpayers and GIVEN to the corporations. They don't have cash from PROFITS! Government money is ALL that is keeping the economy going!
You're right...I'm TIRED of vainly trying to raise ALL the boats...some aren't worth the trouble...and we're wasting our time. Raise the boats that are WORTH the effort to raise!
The governments job isn't to GIVE everyone a certain standard of living. That's the individuals job.
Clinton did "creative accounting" for his "surplus"...we spent as much as we did before. They ALL spend too much!
Clinton was also responsible for the crash of 1999...was he not? It was HIS policies through the 1990s that led to it. Be fair at least occasionally! ALL the presidents suck...because they ALL work for other people!
I do not have a problem with differences in opinion but I do have a problem with people talking down to others and acting like they have the right to decide who has the right to life. Before I go on, I must know, I have your permission to live right?
Who said anything about your right to life? Get a job, support yourself...and you have as much right to life as anyone else. Don't work, don't do ANYTHING for your own support...and you DON'T have a RIGHT to live...get it? You don't have the right to leech off of me!
You're welcome...I worked HARD to give the government the money to buy that cheese for you... You sounded a little sarcastic when you thanked me...so, next time...fuck you! Starve to inconsiderate, ungrateful bastard! One less leech to feed... You see, it goes BOTH ways. After a few decades of watch other ingrates take and then bad mouth you WILL make you a little more cynical!
Is it? Is is morally wrong to let someone reap what they sow? Is it wrong to let someone fail? Why? Why is it "our" responsibility to give someone EVERYTHING they need? Expecting NOTHING in return? How about community service while/after you get your aid? Why should "I" give to you and when you're done...you get to walk away...without even a thank you! In fact you're BITCHING because you apparently...wanted MORE free stuff.
How about CUTTING spending? That would allow taxes to be cut...right?
So...HOW do you propose we "encourage a transition to independence for those that can" when we DON'T require anything from them? Have a kid...live off the public forever...at least until your last kid turns 18...and you WONDER why they have 10 kids! One every couple of years to ensure the checks keep coming!
Actually...warehousing and "raising" the poor are what's wrong. We encourage people to be slackers because we have so many "programs for the poor". 99 weeks unemployment? Welfare for life...as long as you have a dependent child...these things MUST stop!
Russia is FAR from "gone"...in fact they are a thorn in our side again. Keep up with current events... We keep bases so we have influence. It's better to be the boss than a peon...someday you MAY get to the point where you realize this. Right now, the US is the king...it's good to be the king. It gives us a WHOLE LOT of benefits we wouldn't otherwise get.
I think welfare is a silly pork project...to buy votes. I'd cut that first. To corporation too!
It's too bad huh? I think a lot of CRAP would go away IF we got to decide where our tax dollars go.
As do I...the RIGHT to keep the rewards of MY labor! Why do YOU think you DESERVE a piece of it?
We're NOT "all in this together"...some of us WORK HARD and some of us sit home and get drunk all day. It IS "us" vs "them"...the providers vs the leeches.
Actually...we dominated the planet by HAVING an us vs them mentality...it created the drive and motivation to make our things better than their things. People need to learn more about basic instincts!
Helping "our own clan"...not the "enemies clan".
We have 9% unemployment...we're paying people for 99 weeks unemployment...WHY do we STILL have jobs filled by illegals? When you have nothing...you should be willing to take a "job Americans don't want to do".
well I guess we are all friends now and agree on everything... let's all sing kumbayah now!
Seriously, it is good we are all being civil now. I have more sympathy for a homeless person stealing to survive than a rich greedy tycoon, but it would be nice if we could have something that helps the homeless and other poor people BETTER than welfare, and if you can do that cheaper fine. I think we all agree the goal of widening the middle class and ending poverty is what we should be striving for in an effective and humane manner.
It's called MAKING them do SOMETHING for their meals. As long as you freely feed and house these people...the numbers will keep on climbing! NOBODY willingly gives up free stuff.
High..
Haven't read the whole thread but I'm thinking that the less I do is better for me, the planet earth and for you ppl aswell. Now I WON'T tell you guys to do, but hell ... selling my valuable time for some asswipe that profit off my work, EFF that, EFF industrialization, EFF the machine.. what our forefathers 'built' up for me is just a cancerous tumour that should be eradicated asap.
my 2 cents
Haven't read the whole thread but I'm thinking that the less I do is better for me, the planet earth and for you ppl aswell. Now I WON'T tell you guys to do, but hell ... selling my valuable time for some asswipe that profit off my work, EFF that, EFF industrialization, EFF the machine.. what our forefathers 'built' up for me is just a cancerous tumour that should be eradicated asap.
my 2 cents
Top down fraud is usually income tax fraud...not giving to the government what the GOVERNMENT says you should pay. Bottom up fraud is usually receiving things that you do not deserve...theft. I don't see how you can relate the two.
You're comparing using an expired coupon with shoplifting.
If it WAS just a band aid I would be fine with it...but it's a CAREER to many women. They live free and clear and "party for money". Most skanky whores are single welfare mothers. Our current system REWARDS this behavior! All their bills are paid for...and for spending money, they prostitute. Or just party for sex. On our dime! There are millions of them!
End ALL political contributions if you want a fair system. End ALL lobbying if you want a fair system. End itemized deductions.
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