What can we do about Climate Change?

[guest456mpy]

GH,
Thanks for the links. I will indeed look them over with an objective eye and mind.

My profession was E.E, but I wanted to be a physicist. Alas they make little money and most are "owned" by a government or corporation, thus my choice. I say this because as anyone who was interested in empirical science, I am never sure about anything. Things that are presented as facts now may or may not be proven false in the future. It's not that I don't believe in AGW, but rather that my mind is still open to future research and discoveries! For me AGW makes sense, but the jury is still out for deliberation.

PS I leave my browser open while I putz around in my garden, so an immediate reply does not mean I'm not answering, just momentarily away from the keyboard.

H.G.

 

[sac beh]

If you want to start this is an excellent summary of the information.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/Emp...erprints-of-anthropogenic-global-warming.html

Having read now several articles on this site in depth, I find it to be a great source of sound, straight-forward information about this issue. Very useful!

I found among the comments to their article on the hacked emails events (http://www.skepticalscience.com/What-do-the-hacked-CRU-emails-tell-us.html) a link to this:

http://carbonfixated.com/newtongate...in-of-renaissance-and-enlightenment-thinking/

Its a great analogy for understanding the import (or lack thereof) of that supposed "scandal". Historically important issues and ideas too often get bogged down in debate over personal behavior of the persons involved that, though perhaps bad, isn't related to the validity of the argument, science, data, idea that the person is demonstrating.

 

[SpasticGramps]

If all you're gonna do is spew rhetorical political bullshit... go find a restroom.

I'm in the stall next to you and your shit sure don't smell like roses.

I have my own threads here and there I just don't have the compulsion to go on endlessly about it and stir the pot.

Continue on with your righteous and arrogant spiel bro. This thread will end up like all your others. A big pissing match with a lock on it.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Nah, I'm not going to let you guys do that to this one.
This one is too full of articles about good ideas to deal with the problem.

No one is stirring any shit pot but you. I only bump the thread when there is pertinent new information to post up.

It'd be nice if you'd try reality in lieu of your spin points some time.

anyone that bothers reading thru this thread can see where the serious discussion comes from and who's just popping in spewing rhetoric and mischaracterizations...

 

[MarquisBlack]

Did somebody say rhetoric? Here I am!

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Did somebody say rhetoric? Here I am!

Hey! been babysitting your thread for ya

 

[SpasticGramps]

It'd be nice if you'd try reality in lieu of your spin points some time.

Dude, if Stephen Hawking just caught up to you then all us lowly peons have a long way before we can reach your narcissist nirvana.

 

[Mudita]

...

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Love you too, gramps.

 

[sac beh]

...

+Rep

 

[SpasticGramps]

Love you too, gramps.

 

[guest456mpy]

Found on the net:

Published: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 05:33:29 +0000

By David Vink

Europe: Ford Focuses on Sustainable Mouldings Ford Forschungszentrum says it is close to using polypropylene reinforced with 30% sisal fibres for injection moulding.

Ford's Maira Magnani was speaking at Kassel University's 8th Global WPC and Natural Fibre Composites congress and exhibition last month, held for the first time in Stuttgart-Fellbach.

The 30% sisal fibre reinforced parts have already passed FMC crash and head impact test requirements. A centre console made using the material weighs 20% less than talc filled PP. Other advantages include a 20% lower melt temperature and a 10% faster cycle time.

However, further work is needed on the sisal material, Magnani advised, as there are issues to be solved in terms of odour, colour matching with parts made with non-natural fibres, mould flow input data, crash simulation and natural fibre simulation modules.

The sisal reinforced PP was developed by Ford Motor Company (FMC) which has over the last few years developed natural fibre reinforced composites for injection moulding, for example the 50% kenaf fibre reinforced PP used in Ford Mondeo, Focus and Fiesta door panels.

Ford is also looking at using 30% hemp fibre reinforced PP made in the USA and Brazil in electrical/electronic housings and engine compartment applications. Material and component tests also indicated that this type of material is also close to implementation?, says Ford.

 

[ibjamming]

Having the CHIPS TO FALL WHERE THEY MAY would be a serious security risk to not just America but to every other nation as well.

Given the fact you are spewing EXTREME right wing talking points I will give you an example that you can relate to.

When Israel bulldozes a neighborhood Hamas is the first one on the scene to give a helping hand. Terrorist would love for us to cut aid to country's with high rates of poverty. People are not just going to accept your solutions and go home to pass away peacefully.

The chaos and political unrest that would be unleashed around the world would be as close to Armageddon as you could get.

Our lavish American way of life comes at a price foreign aid is one of them.

Mj

No...I'm spewing MY talking points...

Actually, when Israel bulldozes...they're clearing their OWN land. You see right after the UN gave them their independence, and mapped out the Jewish/Arab boundaries, they were attacked...from all sides...including from within by the Palestinians. Well the Israelis won the war...in my mind, they're entitled to all the land they won. The UN says no...but fuck them. So, I believe Israel can do whatever they want with ALL of Israel. FUCK the Palestinians. They remind me of our own people living in the inner cities who don't want to "play the game" they live their way and expect US to go along with it...and take care of them. Again, I say let them starve. If I take care of you...you better fucking show some respect...if not...there's the door! I say the same to EVERYONE with their hand out. I'll help, under MY terms...take it or leave it. What we do now is keep giving and they keep fucking with us.

Better an Armageddon now, only affecting the poor...then wait for the BIG Armageddon when EVERYONE is starving! If you can't keep up, if you can't take care of your self...well then, go home and quietly die. Because I'm sick and tired of working hard and having it taken from me and given to you.

Why does "my" living well MAKE me owe anyone else anything? You want stuff? Figure out a way to earn it yourself...don't expect someone else to give it to you.

You're a woman...you're born with an "entitlement" instinct...that's why you want equality for everyone...it's been GIVEN to you. How about we ALL earn our equality instead of having the government force it down everyone's throat?

To be honest I'm not sure about AGW.

For sure we have GW, but I'm not positive that it is man's doing. That doesn't mean we should stop our efforts to be more responsible stewards of our planet. Just that I'm not sure we know enough about climatic cause and effect to draw a proper conclusion. There may be way more variables than we understand now.

That's what I think too...

 

[ibjamming]

Despite the fantasies of some of the off-topic posters here, this thread is about solutions. Solutions to the challenges of a changing planet threatened with resource depletion and the possibility of a future where humans and nature are increasingly antagonistic towards each other. Here's a small renewable energy project that's going a long way in Guatemala (see video):

http://www.aidg.org/incubation/quetsol.htm

What creates this antagonism? Too heavy a demand. And how do you lower the demand? LESS PEOPLE needing the things.

No matter WHAT new and improved energy source you come up with...after 20 billion or 50 billion or 100 billion people are living here...you're going to have the same problem again, supplying energy. It will never end...you'll keep needing more and more...until the REAL Armageddon comes.

That's what I've been trying to tell you...as long as the population keeps growing...you're going to have to find a way to make more and more energy to supply them. My population control solution fixes everything in one fell swoop. Not as many need the energy so you don't have to keep building more and more ways of making it. The oil will last twice as long. Things will be less crowded. Less pollution.

It's PERFECT (for the survivors). It weeds out the chaff.

So, let's have a mini-Armageddon and fix this thing right now. What do you say?

Having read now several articles on this site in depth, I find it to be a great source of sound, straight-forward information about this issue. Very useful!

I found among the comments to their article on the hacked emails events (http://www.skepticalscience.com/What-do-the-hacked-CRU-emails-tell-us.html) a link to this:

http://carbonfixated.com/newtongate...in-of-renaissance-and-enlightenment-thinking/

Its a great analogy for understanding the import (or lack thereof) of that supposed "scandal". Historically important issues and ideas too often get bogged down in debate over personal behavior of the persons involved that, though perhaps bad, isn't related to the validity of the argument, science, data, idea that the person is demonstrating.

So...a liar and cheat in their "personal life" should have no bearing in a decision whether or not to believe their professional work? I beg to differ... You appear to be the poster boy for "Relativism" there's nothing like just taking the "good parts"...you know, the parts that fit neatly into your world view...and ignoring the "sticky parts"...huh?

This is ALL political bullshit. The part about gloom and doom AND the part that say's it's nothing, nothing is happening. Yes, it's getting warmer. The question isn't how to stop it...we won't...we ALL want to "live like the Americans". I'm not going to be able to stop them from trying and you can't either. You're also NOT going to get Americans to agree to a standard of living equal to Jamaica. You're not going to do it...so give that wacky idea up.

The solution is less people competing for the same limited resources. How do you do that when you keep sending more and more aid and they keep having more and more children? You're shooting yourself in the foot. You're doing just the opposite of what you should be doing. You love abortion here...you love birth control here... So why is it out of the question in Africa and other places that are ALWAYS having population and food problems? Put it in their food! The food you send. That's the choice they get...eat the food with birth control...or starve.

Do you really think these people will ever be productive? These people will live...that's all. They'll barely survive on whatever we give them. They have no future. In my mind...it's CRUEL to let them keep going down the path of ruin. They're ignorant, they don't understand, they can't fix the problem themselves. We need to REALLY help them. Help them get their population under control so they have a future as a people.

I firmly believe it's you and your ilk that have it all backwards. You fix the end product but you ignore the root problem. People who can't take care of themselves. It's like most of our poor here in the states. We throw them money thinking it will fix things...it won't. The problem is deeper than finances. It's like the education system...we throw money thinking it will fix things...it doesn't...the problem is with the students.

Ah liberals...got to love their dreams.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

the solution is a smarter use of resources, my poor, narrow minded, short sighted, deeply confused acquaintance(i don't befriend evil bigots)...

 

[sac beh]

What creates this antagonism? Too heavy a demand. And how do you lower the demand? LESS PEOPLE needing the things.

No matter WHAT new and improved energy source you come up with...after 20 billion or 50 billion or 100 billion people are living here...you're going to have the same problem again, supplying energy. It will never end...you'll keep needing more and more...until the REAL Armageddon comes.

That's what I've been trying to tell you...as long as the population keeps growing...you're going to have to find a way to make more and more energy to supply them. My population control solution fixes everything in one fell swoop. Not as many need the energy so you don't have to keep building more and more ways of making it. The oil will last twice as long. Things will be less crowded. Less pollution.

It's PERFECT (for the survivors). It weeds out the chaff.

So, let's have a mini-Armageddon and fix this thing right now. What do you say?

ibjamming, I'm going to ask you respectfully to stop posting the same argument with no new information. This same thought is recorded here in this thread multiple times, and it has been responded to. You need to create a population control thread if that is what you want to discuss. Its just a matter of respect for the OP and others who want to stay on topic.

So...a liar and cheat in their "personal life" should have no bearing in a decision whether or not to believe their professional work? I beg to differ... You appear to be the poster boy for "Relativism" there's nothing like just taking the "good parts"...you know, the parts that fit neatly into your world view...and ignoring the "sticky parts"...huh?

On the contrary. I believe that there are truths about how our world works waiting to be discovered. Open-minded, rational people can come to accord about these truths and advance human knowledge. The very human condition is such that we must set aside irrelevant personal matters when the truths at stack transcend them. If you aren't able to judge between what is relevant to an objective matter and what is not, then we fall into relativism since we all have personal flaws. Are you willing to throw out all of classical physics and the basic principles of Newtonian mechanics because of the personal letters?

http://carbonfixated.com/newtongate...in-of-renaissance-and-enlightenment-thinking/

Its a great analogy for understanding the import (or lack thereof) of that supposed "scandal". Historically important issues and ideas too often get bogged down in debate over personal behavior of the persons involved that, though perhaps bad, isn't related to the validity of the argument, science, data, idea that the person is demonstrating.

I do encourage you to create a thread to discuss your beliefs about population control and politics. You'll be moderated if you keep posting off topic in this one.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Who the hell is "a liar and cheat" in their personal lives?

The scientists who were FALSELY accused in the climate gate witch hunt, were completely exonerated by 5 different independent reviews, and did nothing immoral or dishonest.

 

[RetroGrow]

You cannot separate global warming/environmental degradation from overpopulation.
The one causes the others.
Why do people not want to talk about population control?

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

You cannot separate global warming/environmental degradation from overpopulation.
The one causes the others.
Why do people not want to talk about population control?

I'm happy to talk about population control through education and making contraception acceptable and available everywhere.

We have no business talking about population control from any perspective which is racist or political.

In addition to a non-radical population control, there are also many other viable and less-than-radical steps that can be taken to help mitigate the problem.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Maybe a cap and trade program for child emissions (he says as a complete joke)