weird splotchy leaves... cant identify! please help!

[BongRipkenJR.]

I am not sure if I am remembering properly, but I thought I heard something about too much cal/mag or pK can cause what looks like an N deficiency by locking it out. I forgot if it was the cal/mag or pK though. I have had a similar problem with a sour diesel I was running. It had the same leaf splotchyness. It however didnt affect growth or quality though.

Either way, I would aerate your water for 24 hours before using it or even mixing your nutes in it. There is chlorine in tap water and the oxygen helps push the gasses out of it. I honestly think it is to much magnesium locking out N. Where are you located? You can always google the water quality in your area and see if maybe there is a higher than normal amount of Mg in it. Either way, they arent looking that bad.

 

[areUkind]

I am not sure if I am remembering properly, but I thought I heard something about too much cal/mag or pK can cause what looks like an N deficiency by locking it out. I forgot if it was the cal/mag or pK though. I have had a similar problem with a sour diesel I was running. It had the same leaf splotchyness. It however didnt affect growth or quality though.

Either way, I would aerate your water for 24 hours before using it or even mixing your nutes in it. There is chlorine in tap water and the oxygen helps push the gasses out of it. I honestly think it is to much magnesium locking out N. Where are you located? You can always google the water quality in your area and see if maybe there is a higher than normal amount of Mg in it. Either way, they arent looking that bad.

just noticing that its real only seems to be effecting 3 plants at all and the ones that are effected are VERY infected!? im confused!!

side note: not sure if anyone noticed but i do give them a large amount of silica as i understand this can help with inter node stretching but i am not sure if i have seen a difference...

 

[BongRipkenJR.]

Just try a quick flush with 30% runoff with clean water, then either filter your water and continue what you are doing or just aerate and use less cal/mag. I always had weird leaf things happening with tap water. What strains are you running? Are you running them from seed or clone? The pictures really don't look that bad. I am interested in this as I am going to be running coco for the first time this run.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

it has nothing to do with the foliar spray nothing at all. ive ran this same set up before and without problem

Lol, plain water can cause canoeing if your fan is too direct. Until you eliminate what's causing your leaves to roll, you're only guessing what it isn't. If you keep doing everything based on the fact it worked last time, you'll never look at what you're doing wrong now.

According to the form, you changed up your mix two weeks ago. According to the form, your visual symptoms appeared ~two weeks ago. That means you had a month of no problems, just retrace your steps.

It's always a process of elimination, determining which item(s) you're using to much or two little of.

And here's a personal tip from me. Nobody's knocking your grow skills but your approach will make finding your solution take longer to figure out. Because, whatever it is.... you're doing too little or too much of it.

Do yourself a favor. Stop spraying one of the plants with canoeing leaves. See if the problem wanes. If not, tweak the next item in your solution.

You can have imperfections in your leaves w/o necessarily having a def that replicates. Other than the canoeing, none of your pics appear to show a typical problem, let alone nitrogen deficiency.

 

[areUkind]

Lol, plain water can cause canoeing if your fan is too direct. Until you eliminate what's causing your leaves to roll, you're only guessing what it isn't. If you keep doing everything based on the fact it worked last time, you'll never look at what you're doing wrong now.

According to the form, you changed up your mix two weeks ago. According to the form, your visual symptoms appeared ~two weeks ago. That means you had a month of no problems, just retrace your steps.

It's always a process of elimination, determining which item(s) you're using to much or two little of.

And here's a personal tip from me. Nobody's knocking your grow skills but your approach will make finding your solution take longer to figure out. Because, whatever it is.... you're doing too little or too much of it.

Do yourself a favor. Stop spraying one of the plants with canoeing leaves. See if the problem wanes. If not, tweak the next item in your solution.

You can have imperfections in your leaves w/o necessarily having a def that replicates. Other than the canoeing, none of your pics appear to show a typical problem, let alone nitrogen deficiency.

canoe leaf is gone so no longer should we acknowledge that picture

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Maybe you're making a fuss about nothing much?

 

[areUkind]

Maybe you're making a fuss about nothing much?

its definitely something to notice and i wish i had a way to show you the whole grow and how the deficiency really does seem to stick out in an odd way. flipping to flower is coming soon and the fact that i have 8 plants that look great and 4 that arent looking so hot, concerns me. this is my first time with a hungry styled sativa but DB< i really do appreciate your concerns and help!

still need to figure this out within the next week!

 

[areUkind]

Just try a quick flush with 30% runoff with clean water, then either filter your water and continue what you are doing or just aerate and use less cal/mag. I always had weird leaf things happening with tap water. What strains are you running? Are you running them from seed or clone? The pictures really don't look that bad. I am interested in this as I am going to be running coco for the first time this run.

chem cut and ive ran this cut before in soil. it is a known clone in the area and is a high yielder and super quality. first time running any sativa dominate strain in coco and it def is testing me! the fact that its only a dominate feature in 4plants really confuses me...

 

[enjia2000]

Did you have a fan blowing on them? Seems like they dried out a bit.

 

[BongRipkenJR.]

Thats funny that my sour diesel did the same thing. I take it you are running the Chem 4? It seems to be the only high quality big yielding chem strain. It looks like there really isnt a problem though.

 

[areUkind]

Thats funny that my sour diesel did the same thing. I take it you are running the Chem 4? It seems to be the only high quality big yielding chem strain. It looks like there really isnt a problem though.

not sure what chem cut but tomorrow i will post pictures with my definitive qualities so hopefully we can all get this solved....

 

[greenmatter]

check the NPK on your silica additive, you may be locking out cal and/or mag with the extra K. they are all cations and from what i have read mag is the least "competitive" when there is an imbalance.

 

[areUkind]

check the NPK on your silica additive, you may be locking out cal and/or mag with the extra K. they are all cations and from what i have read mag is the least "competitive" when there is an imbalance.

just trying to figure this out a couple hours ago... the npk ratio on the cal/mag is 4-0-0 and the pro tek silica is 0-0-2 sooo???

 

[greenmatter]

just trying to figure this out a couple hours ago... the npk ratio on the cal/mag is 4-0-0 and the pro tek silica is 0-0-2 sooo???

just a shot in the dark ... i have seen silica additives with 0-0-13 also. did not have the pro tek label on hand so i was not sure sooooo!! good luck

 

[areUkind]

http://www.horticulturesource.com/popup_image2.php?pID=8610&osCsid=6f15fb92fda6593a8e02bc70b95e54df

link to a snashot of the the protek silica but i guess its actually 0-0-3 so what could this mean?

 

[greenmatter]

not claiming to be 100% sure that it is your issue, and i should also tell you that i have never grown in coco so again this is a shot in the dark. Ca, Mg and K are all cations, so a balance of the three is very important. of the three K is the easiest for the plant to eat, if there is an overload of K , the Mg uptake is effected before the Ca and from what i have read if the plant lacks Mg it will start to take up more Mn (also a cation) which will keep the plant alive but is far from optimal. my thought was that it is possible that the extra K from your silica my be locking out some Mg and throwing your girls out of balance. again thats a shot in the dark, but i have grown crops that rocked with no silica additives at all. you may just want to leave it out and see what happens. good luck

 

[stoney917]

i grow all of the chems run the 4 and the d atm on day 67... both are very good yielder if dialed in... of super stanky nugz.....and massive colas.. need lots of trainin and prunin to get huge.... and one thing that may help ya is chems are well known cal mag whores and 90% of the time when its a chem prob ive seen it be a call mag issue... by wk 3 i start mixin my res whichis 000ppm ro up to bout 120ppm with calmag before addin ne nutes less is more with the nutes and additives but more is need of calmag.... best of luck ur plants dont loook horrible im sure they will pick back up soon

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

IME, Mg defs are most prevalent in the first three weeks of flower. I usually cut Mg supps after 21 days flower, if used at all. Base nutes usually have enough Mg unless pH isn't dialed for Mg absorption.

Balancing formulas is pretty easy when elements come out of the same bottle or the same family of nutes. Custom formulas are cool too but sometimes cause imbalance if label instructions no longer apply. It's a matter of raising or lower specific ingredients in the solution to get the best results. If you're going by another growers instructions, it's good to have them around for tips if things go wrong. Knowing what works for self is as good and often better than what works for others because we can't always replicate all factors.

Visible imperfections and identifiable nute deficiencies aren't the same critter. A healthy plant might have a range of perfect vs imperfect tissue and color. Knowing what's behind this is harder than spotting typical, visual signs of deficiency.

Obviously a healthy plant is preferable to less than. But part of the supply leaf's function is to supply mobile elements where needed. To a degree, imperfect supply leafs won't affect quality or quantity of bud. Some growers even prefer depleted supply leaves for taste and smoothness. Other growers seem to prefer harvesting shiny green plants. Where you draw the line is key.

 

[areUkind]

so ive cut back on the amount of silica being used and tomorrow i will try a foliar with some epsom salt on one infected plants. does this seem reasonable?

what would be a for sure sign that the plant is in need of a flush?
these plants are still relatively easy to move around and have not been grown into a trellis so to perform a flush now as oppose to in 2 weeks when im in flower, ya know!

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

so ive cut back on the amount of silica being used and tomorrow i will try a foliar with some epsom salt on one infected plants. does this seem reasonable?

You're not unreasonable. You (may) be unfamiliar with the sum of your ingredients. What's in epsom salt? Do your plants need it? Is it included in your base nutes and or other supplements? Will too much cause problems with another element?

Foliar feeding isn't necessarily risk free nor is it specifically necessary for lush growth. Some growers have humidity problems (only a temporary solution) or they've got a deficiency that foliar feeding will address more quickly than adding to the substrate.

It's not just what you spray on the leaves, it's how fast the leaves dry. Spraying plain water on your leaves and watching the results will give you an idea if your plants like being sprayed in your environment. If all is well, add your supplement of interest. Watch the results. If you add more supps to your sprays, you may have to reduce the amount of the original ingredient, depending what the sum suggests.

When I tried my first sample of one-part base, there were 6 supplements included. There are mixing instructions to use all together. But below these instructions it says Keep It Simple.

So I started with the base and waited for the results. If I got a deficiency, I looked at the npk labels and added one that seemed to fit the situation. For example, if I needed nitrogen I added the supplement that contained the most N. The manufacturer only provided one N supplement. Otherwise I'd have to compensate when adding other supplements with like elements.

Non npk supps like root stimulants and silicas provide more for the plant than base nutes include. But like everything else, too little is usually better than too much. Knowing the visual signs of either is necessary to know if and when you have troubles.

what would be a for sure sign that the plant is in need of a flush?
these plants are still relatively easy to move around and have not been grown into a trellis so to perform a flush now as oppose to in 2 weeks when im in flower, ya know!

Plants are more like people than signs. What works for one might not work very well for another. But there are times when flushing is inevitable. Try to keep it last resort until you've experienced what flushing does with your setup and strains.

If your runoff is too strong you can flush. Or, you can moderate the amount of nutes to reduce the likelihood of buildup. 10 to 15% runoff with each feeding may reduce buildup enough to avoid early flushes. Plain water feedings also help.

If your pH is off, you could flush with something that returns a desirable range. But since you're growing in coco, it's just a matter of pouring the correct range in. As long as you do this, there should be no pH troubles minus nute buildup.

Try posting a few more of the problem pics. Wide angle shots help determine whether you're imperfections will affect yield or quality. And if you achieve perfection in leaf tissue and color, I'll shake your hand. Whether it equates to better and more bud, we'll just have to see.