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We Never Perceive Reality Directly

southflorida

lives on planet 4:20
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We all live within a Cultural ASSumption that our sense perceptions provide us with direct information about reality.

But this is not how it IS.

Reality is what it-is-as-itself. It is a direct experience of what IS.

REALITY (or the truth) can't be gleaned by bouncing some sensory-perceptive radar off the surface of an encounter and then interpreting what the encounter means.

Yet, THIS IS how all of our perceptions actually work!

They provide only indirect feedback about reality, and zero feedback about the TRUE nature of reality.

Our perception were NOT designed for perceiving reality or the truth, they were designed for helping us to survive as the "self" that we believe that we are.

It is hard for us to actually grasp that our perceptions of what's there are DIFFERENT from what is actually there.

But, if we think of our perceptions as various forms of radar, we may be able to better understand this disconnect.

For example, when we see a blip on a radar, it is clear to us that the blip REPRESENTS an object, providing us with very limited and indirect information about that object. When it comes to radar, it's clear to us that we aren't seeing the plane and that the blip in no way tells us what the plane actually looks like, or any other information except for the plane's location. What we're doing with radar is bouncing radar signals off of some object and seeing the effect this has on our radar screen.

We can grasp the indirect nature of this process because we know that the airplane is so vastly different from the small blip of light that we see.

Well...it is the SAME with every perception that we ever have.

It is ONLY because our perceptions are so familiar, and the only one's we've got, that they seem to "be" reality for us.

The eyeball doesn't actually see the object it perceives. Since the eye functions by picking up light patterns, what they eye sees is ONLY the light that bounces off the object that it perceives. So, we're not seeing the object but the light.

But, to be more correct, we are not even seeing the light that is accepted by the object but ONLY the light that the object repels.

Since the light hits the eyeball and stimulates nerves that we receive as a pattern that we interpret, we aren't ACTUALLY seeing the light either.

Furthermore, we can only pick up the data that our INDIRECT perceptive process can provide us with.

This means we don't hear the object, we can't feel weight or texture or temperature, or view inside the object, and so on.

Try to get that right now as you read this on your screen.

We are NEVER aware of any aspect of anything that can't be represented through our senses. Any aspect of the object that can't be carried through some perception cannot be known via perception.

What's most significant is this: No matter what can or can't be carried through some perception, we are NEVER directly perceiving or experiencing anything.

We are simply interpreting the perception of STIMULATED NERVE PATTERNS.

This activity is NOT the object or anything else we perceive.

We have no direct perception of or contact with the object itself.

This is true for each and every one of our perceptive senses.

So we are NEVER perceiving the thing itself.

We never grasp the the real nature of any object or anything we perceive for that matter.

This is true for hearing, smelling, tasting, feeling, even thinking.

Perhaps we grasp that our perception of the outside world are indirect, but still take for granted that our thinking and emoting are direct since they are within us.

What we perceive within our own minds and bodies isn't anymore of a direct connection to the true nature of reality than is our perception of an object outside our bodies.

The content of our imagination and memory has been formed through the "re-creation" of sensory perceptions. Internal dialogue is a conceptual mimic of the sound of our voice. Our thought patterns and distinctions are based on our particular language and our relationship to a perceived reality.

Concepts are never the thing itself, they only represent or mis-represent something, and our emotions are manipulations, not feedback about reality.

What all this means is that we can never grasp the TRUTH through our perceptions.

We are left only with an INDIRECT EXPERIENCE.

Interesting isn't it?

What's actually important is to simply notice this, and to allow your concepts (beliefs, assumptions, convictions, etc) remain in the domain of concepts, and not the truth.

:blowbubbles:
 

Infinitesimal

my strength is a number, and my soul lies in every
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Daniel Dennett - the magic of consciousness

Daniel Dennett - the magic of consciousness

[YOUTUBEIF]3jBUtKYRxnA[/YOUTUBEIF]
 

southflorida

lives on planet 4:20
Veteran
[YOUTUBEIF]3jBUtKYRxnA[/YOUTUBEIF]

Thanks. Very interesting video.

What's funny is he looks very similar to Thomas Campbell, a scientist that I'm going to post two videos of below.

On his YouTube channel there are a lot of videos, but basically there he is saying that Reality = Information.
 

amannamedtruth

Active member
Veteran
Lily Tomlin said this in "The Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe"

Perceived reality might be that, but True Reality is NOT a concept, and lies outside of our perception.

:tiphat:

Yup, you're right about the quote, but...

How do you know about this 'true reality' if you can't perceive it? Unless its just based on a hunch...by that point, it seems about as true as the one you perceive, if not less true...

Are you trying to get at the notion that we may be living in a multi-verse?

Perhaps its not the stimulus or how we perceive them, but the logic that puts them all together, and thus forms an association of stimuli logically arranged to form your world.
 

southflorida

lives on planet 4:20
Veteran
Yup, you're right about the quote, but...

How do you know about this 'true reality' if you can't perceive it? Unless its just based on a hunch...by that point, it seems about as true as the one you perceive, if not less true...

Are you trying to get at the notion that we may be living in a multi-verse?

Okay, if everything that we perceive is NOT true reality, since it's a secondary process, as explained in length in the OP, that means that true reality lies outside of our perception and all possible concepts.

Whatever is true, is NOT a representation or a mis-representation, as with all perception.

Whatever is true, is either different from what we perceive, or there is NOTHING there at all (which is most likely the case).

Before anything appears, what is there?

It's like breathing. You breath in, and then you breathe out.

So, reality is just something and then nothing, over and over...right?

We notice the something, but our attention ignores the NOTHING, because there is nothing there...lol

We are living inside Consciousness. We ARE Consciousness.

Universe is simply a DISTINCTION inside Consciousness, just like everything else that ever was, is now, or ever will be.
 

southflorida

lives on planet 4:20
Veteran
Perhaps its not the stimulus or how we perceive them, but the logic that puts them all together, and thus forms an association of stimuli logically arranged to form your world.

you snuck this last part in and I only saw it now :biggrin:

the steps toward how it happens is NOT what is that important, what IS important is to grasp that our perception are INDIRECT

...we are NEVER perceiving what IS actually there
 

waveguide

Active member
Veteran
this sentiment is called "solipsism" in philosophy - all sensory mechanisms are part of the self, therefore all knowledge gained through them is self knowledge.

gautama buddha (attributed) concisely put it - "when the foot touches the ground, the foot feels the foot"

many western philosophers/intellectuals seem to hate solipsism.. it's the reflexive property, A = A.. you can't use the reflexive property to sell cars and shit. fuck western philosophy.

the only place truth can ever exist is within the self, so why look anywhere else? we *always* perceive reality directly, "i am i, i am all" - voivod lol :p
 
A

Alfred

Well, i could try and give my opinion through a 'one line zen' approach, or through a 1000 page essay, but it would still be an excercise in futility.....
 

BlueBlazer

What were we talking about?
Veteran
Maybe perception is reality.

I like to ponder on this:

Every one of us processes stimuli differently. Closely enough into being fooled that we all see, hear, touch, and smell things pretty much the same way. I believe each of us perceives a completely different reality than everyone else. In essence, each of us lives in our own parallel universe directly next to everyone else's.

With that in mind, I declare myself emperor for life of Blazerverse!
dance.gif
 

mother cannabis

New member
Quote

Quote

Each person occupies his or her own distinct universe/reality—one that is FUNDAMENTALLY different from anyone else’s. Every person’s universe has its own rules, customs, and beliefs, so you’re going to have to live in another person’s universe for a while if you want to really know that person. (Conversely, if you only stay in your own universe, you will never truly know anyone but yourself.)

With every human relationship, you become a kind of exchange student exploring a foreign land. Certain lands might feel much less familiar than others—as if you’re descending into the darkest, cruelest jungle. Others might feel as if you’re finally returning home.

With each person you associate with, you’re choosing to embark on a certain kind of journey. Choose wisely.
Kira Salak (http://www.facebook.com/kirasalak?ref=ts&fref=ts
 

wantaknow

ruger 500
Veteran
sounds like the matrix,when an independant studie was done on mentally ill people in instutions ,the survey concluded that most that the majority said that the matrix move was more like reality than any other movie ,and this was done nation wide and none of those that were served had no contact with one another,weird huh
 

mr.brunch

Well-known member
Veteran
but perception is reality, as reality is only a concept invented by us.
we dont percieve things that differently from each other, maybe we might interpret them slightly differently but this is due to life experience. after all a red ball is a red ball, whoever you are.
 

southflorida

lives on planet 4:20
Veteran
but perception is reality, as reality is only a concept invented by us.

Perception is perception. Reality is reality. Concepts are concepts. These are three distinct things.

Fundamentally, they are not separate, like everything else inside of Consciousness, but they are NO doubt different.

Reality is WHAT'S really there, and this is an unknown state, since it is the original and authentic state, in other words it is PRIMARY. We abide in Reality, since we ARE Consciousness itself, but we can't grasp or explain what it IS, because all language is built using concepts, and a concept is NOT the thing itself, it is only an interpretation and representation of something. Since concepts are NEVER the thing AS itself, they can only give second-hand knowledge, and can never BE a direct-experience of what is really there.

Perception is a way of interpreting the unknown phenomenon we are calling reality. This includes seeing, hearing, tasting, feeling, touching, etc.

Every perception that we have provides us with an emotional charge, because perception has been designed with one purpose: SELF-SURVIVAL. This includes physical and social survival, with social survival taking up 99.9% of our attention at the present time.

Concepts are thoughts invented in the mind. Beliefs and assumptions are the concepts we use for interpreting and providing meaning to every perception. Once the meaning is clear, an emotional charge is created (also by us...btw) and we have a clear signal where we know how to react to any circumstance in our life.

By the way, this points at the fact that emotions are something we generate and NOT something that happens to us. Plus, emotions are conceptually generated and have a conceptual structure, with the emotional charge that we feel (fear, anger, pain, etc) being the last element in this structure.

we dont percieve things that differently from each other, maybe we might interpret them slightly differently but this is due to life experience. after all a red ball is a red ball, whoever you are.

All perception is a secondary process. Check the First Post in the beginning of this thread, if you are interested in knowing exactly why that is so. In that first post I go into detail why all our perceptions are secondary and why we have no way of perceiving reality as-it-is-as-itself.

Interpretation, Meaning, and the Emotional Charge that we get from perceiving whatever we perceive is unique to each human being.

A red ball is a conceptual term that we as a culture agree on.

What the red ball really IS, we don't know and have no way of knowing. We can perceive it as an object, but this is still secondary. In reality, we don't even know if it is there at all, since our perceptions are secondary and depend on our organs of perception.

For itself, a red ball is an object, for-us it is interpreted as a red ball, for-itself it exists as whatever it IS, and this last part is outside of our perceptions.

In other words, our perceptions can't perceive reality as it is, we can only see stuff for-itself, and for-me, as in what does this thing mean to-me?...but we can't perceive what something is AS-ITSELF.

These are three different/distinct things, and the last part, whatever anything IS as-itself, can only be directly-experienced.
 
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