Washington State - Senate Bill 5073 (aka HB1100)

[GanjaPharma]

some comments regarding this bill:
first to the op's ?. in draft 7 of the bill ( the final draft was #10 i think) there was more language regarding the"identification of medical cannabis". it said something about adding "colored confetti" that would be difficult to separate. looks like someone made the (good) call to remove the strange bit about confetti, but they left the impossible task of identification alone. I have also read some terrifying things about gen-mod ganja that is chartreuse looking for identification purposes (im sure its wonderful herb too).

this bill does ALOT to help patients n WA avoid arrest and search, and discrimination (parental rights, employment etc..). right now, we get to explain ourselves in court after a night in jail. it establishes collective gardens, makes the registry voluntary, allows for OUT OF STATE med cards, and clarifies a number of things that would have kept yours truly out of the klink if this had been written 10 yeas ago.

the language and principles in the bill regarding licensing growers, processors, and dispensers point to a simple message:
sick people getting hassled and arrested with no way to legally get their meds...blahblahblah...yawn
babylon wants their MONEY. we will have to wait and see how much.


lots of valid critisisms though so:
Olympia WA, thursday the 20th 1pm : public discussion of the bill
rally at 3pm

if you can make it, and speak your mind, its not all written in stone yet. (although this post was written stoned)

 

[mugenbao]

There's no question in my mind that there's some good stuff in this bill, some of which has been a long time coming. I can't make it to the public discussion, I hope they broadcast/stream it live again so that I can at least watch that.

 

[trichrider]

seems like a long time coming, and final revisions not until 2012?

did see something strange about plant numbers...if more than one plant share a rootball, they are counted as 1 plant...did I understand that correctly?

(15) "Plant" means an organism having at least three
27 distinguishable and distinct leaves, each leaf being at least three
28 centimeters in diameter, and a readily observable root formation
29 consisting of at least two separate and distinct roots, each being at
30 least two centimeters in length. Multiple stalks emanating from the
31 same root ball or root system shall be considered part of the same
32 single plant.

 

[rdy]

Huh? I can see how that excerpt must look out of context as the issue of labeling the processed cannabis is addressed in several parts of the bill. Am I reading too much into it, or are you not reading any of it?

Also, to address the first thing you said: see www.icmag.com

Dude, by "labeling" it, all they can do is put it in a baggie or a box that has an official sticker on it. That's it, and that's all I was implying.

How else do you think someone could label cannabis? It's an agricultural commodity. How are fruits and vegetables labeled? Same thing.

And I was just being playful about giving you creativity props with the adulterants and dyes. Perhaps I meant to say you have quite an imagination, not that you read too much into it.

P.s., I see you're new here. Welcome

I made that comment about activism because as you'll no doubt find, many people on ICMag are quite content with 2nd prohibition.

 

[Stress_test]

seems like a long time coming, and final revisions not until 2012?

did see something strange about plant numbers...if more than one plant share a rootball, they are counted as 1 plant...did I understand that correctly?

(15) "Plant" means an organism having at least three
27 distinguishable and distinct leaves, each leaf being at least three
28 centimeters in diameter, and a readily observable root formation
29 consisting of at least two separate and distinct roots, each being at
30 least two centimeters in length. Multiple stalks emanating from the
31 same root ball or root system shall be considered part of the same
32 single plant.

No you read it right...
But keep reading, it still addresses a maximum amount and even a potential amount. As for how much "could be harvested".
So if you have 14 plants (5 in each root ball) then you are illegal before it is even cut.

 

[SpellingEror]

I feel like there are two completely different discussions going om here. Maybe it's the didactic nature of the thread on the site: is it a legal discussion or is it an mmj discussion? I don't know, anyway. I'm glad some folks showed up to talk about it.

Ok I'm gonna try to clear up some things that may be detracting from the ultimate goal here, which is really to know what people think of this bill.

As far this bill being a way of "controlling" mmj, yes it is. In the sense that if you wish to produce it, process it or dispense it to the mmj patient community, then yes this bill will not only legally allow you to do that but will also require that you pay tax; to the state, feds too I would think. I'm guessing that one reason for changing the wording to "cannabis" is because there are no laws in washington preventing the sale of medical cannabis, only marijuana and therefore medical marijuana. If the states recognizes the difference between cannabis and marijuana, then great. Marijuana is that brick shit from mexico that's all seeded and stemy, cannabis is my medicine. My point is that if you want a legitimate industry, it will be taxed.

Now, how will this bill effect me and my right to grow my own medicine? Just like GanjaPharma said, it will protect your rights as a patient or provider with a garden. Especially your rights as a parent, which I believe is very important.

The July 2012 deadline is set for the more specific rules adopted by the DoAg and the DoH. So the DoAg will be required to work with patients, police and those who will be purchasing licenses to come up with the exact rules for the industry. Same with the DoH. The point is the precise guidelines will be decided in a public forum.

As to the definition to a plant, I think it's great. I had a friend get busted for cultivating like 300 plants. One plant was in 5 gal of soil, 300 plus "clones" were in a garbage bag ready to be thrown into the garbage. Not a single root on any of the "clones." He was just thinning out that monster to allow for better light.


SP

 

[SpellingEror]

As to the maximum potential yield, I tried to find what you were talking about but could not. Are we reading the same bill? Also, same question at GanjaPharma, confetti?

maybe i don't get the sarcasm cause im new.

Peace and good ganja.

 

[Stress_test]

First Read the Definitions.

PART II
DEFINITIONS
Sec. 201. RCW 69.51A.010 and 2010 c 284 s 2 are each amended to read as follows:
The definitions in this section apply throughout this chapter unless the context clearly requires otherwise.
(1) "Cannabis" means all parts of the plant Cannabis, whether growing or not; the seeds thereof; the resin extracted from any part of the plant; and every compound, manufacture, salt, derivative, mixture, or preparation of the plant, its seeds, or resin. For the purposes of this chapter, "cannabis" does not include the mature stalks of the plant, fiber produced from the stalks, oil or cake made from the seeds of the plant, any other compound, manufacture, salt, derivative, mixture, or preparation of the mature stalks, except the resin extracted therefrom, fiber, oil, or cake, or the sterilized seed of the plant which is incapable of germination. The term "cannabis" includes cannabis products and useable cannabis.

(2) "Cannabis products" means products that contain cannabis or cannabis extracts, have a measurable THC concentration greater than three-tenths of one percent, and are intended for human consumption or application, including, but not limited to, edible products, tinctures, and lotions. The term "cannabis products" does not include useable cannabis.

(15) "Plant" means an organism having at least three distinguishable and distinct leaves, each leaf being at least three centimeters in diameter, and a readily observable root formation consisting of at least two separate and distinct roots, each being at least two centimeters in length. Multiple stalks emanating from the same root ball or root system shall be considered part of the same single plant.

PART IV PROTECTIONS FOR QUALIFYING PATIENTS AND DESIGNATED PROVIDERS
Sec. 401. RCW 69.51A.040 and 2007 c 371 s 5 are each amended to read as follows:
(1) The qualifying patient or designated provider possesses no more than fifteen cannabis plants and no more than twenty-four ounces of useable cannabis, no more cannabis product than reasonably could be produced with no more than twenty-four ounces of useable cannabis, or a combination of useable cannabis and cannabis product that does not exceed a combined total representing possession and processing of no more than twenty-four ounces of useable cannabis,

"no more cannabis product than reasonably could be produced with no more than twenty-four ounces of useable cannabis, or a combination of useable cannabis and cannabis product that does not exceed a combined total representing possession and processing of no more than twenty-four ounces of useable cannabis,"

This language makes it pretty damn clear that every piece of a plant will be scaled.
This bill makes an absolute 24 oz limit on plants and medicine. Well not just that but a person better not collect too many seeds.

It also leaves the door wide open for LEO to start "estimating" how much a plant "should" yield. If leo determines that your 10 plants will yield more than the legal 24 oz, then he can legally confiscate all that you possess over the limit.

PART IV
PROTECTIONS FOR QUALIFYING PATIENTS AND DESIGNATED PROVIDERS

NEW SECTION. Sec. 404. A qualifying patient or designated provider in possession of cannabis plants, useable cannabis, or cannabis product exceeding the limits set forth in RCW 69.51A.040
(1) but otherwise in compliance with all other terms and conditions of this chapter may establish an affirmative defense to charges of violations of state law relating to cannabis through proof at trial, by a preponderance of the evidence, that the qualifying patient's necessary medical use exceeds the amounts set forth in RCW 69.51A.040(1). An investigating peace officer may seize cannabis plants, useable cannabis, or cannabis product exceeding the amounts set forth in RCW 69.51A.040(1): PROVIDED, That in the case of cannabis plants, the qualifying patient or designated provider shall be allowed to select the plants that will remain at the location. The officer and his or her law enforcement agency may not be held civilly liable for failure to seize cannabis in this circumstance.

So if lets say you have 2 mothers and running 3 cycles of 4 plants and your stash is getting down to about 8 ounces. You have 4 in clone, 4 in veg and 4 in finish. Now the local badge wearing thug shows up and checks your garden, well everything is good except that the 4 in flower are getting pretty heavy and leo decides that your 4 plants will obviously finish out well over 24 ounces so he will have to confiscate one of em, just to keep you legal so that you don't get any hassle from anybody ya know.
So you decide that if you have to forfeit one then you would rather give up that wrinkly old bitch in the back that got stunted by spidermites so you drag it out and reluctantly fork it over... Except Leo wants that heady fucker in the back that is you prize genetics.

Keep in mind that the prick will be back next month because nobody else within 100 miles has as good of weed as you grow, but if you don't forfeit your prized plant then he can make sure you are harassed, fined or even shut down.

 

[SpellingEror]

(26) "Useable cannabis" means dried flowers of the Cannabis plant having a THC concentration greater than three-tenths of one percent. Useable cannabis excludes stems, stalks, leaves, seeds, and roots. For purposes of this subsection, "dried" means containing less than fifteen percent moisture content by weight. The term "useable cannabis" does not include cannabis products.

?

 

[GanjaPharma]

As to the maximum potential yield, I tried to find what you were talking about but could not. Are we reading the same bill? Also, same question at GanjaPharma, confetti?

maybe i don't get the sarcasm cause im new.

Peace and good ganja.

no sarcasm, heres the http://cdc.coop/2011_legislationlink if you feel like reading other drafts of the bill. a ton of stuff got taken out before version 10: http://cdc.coop/2011_legislation[/URL

i only mentioned it because you had a question about it, and i have been reading various revisions of this bill for the past year.

so he will have to confiscate one of em, just to keep you legal so that you don't get any hassle from anybody ya know.

the bill states that
A qualifying patient or designated provider in possession of cannabis plants, useable cannabis, or cannabis product exceeding the limits set forth in RCW 69.51A.040(1) but otherwise in compliance with all other terms and conditions of this chapter may establish an affirmative defense to charges of violations of state law relating to cannabis through proof at trial, by a preponderance of the evidence, that the qualifying patient's necessary
medical use exceeds the amounts set forth in RCW 69.51A.040(1). An investigating peace officer may seize cannabis plants, useable
cannabis, or cannabis product exceeding the amounts set forth in RCW 69.51A.040(1): PROVIDED, That in the case of cannabis plants, the
qualifying patient or designated provider shall be allowed to select the plants that will remain at the location. The officer and his or
her law enforcement agency may not be held civilly liable for failure to seize cannabis in this circumstance

so the patient gets to make the choice of which plants the officer may confiscate.


Stress test:
the section you quote from regarding "no more product than could reasonably be produced..." refers to cannabis "products" extracts such as hash or oil, foodstuffs, lotions etc..

under the current law, the WA RCW makes no distinction between resin/extracts and actual plant material. so i could have 24 oz of hash, and would be within my legal limit. this would change that.

how they are gonna determine what could "reasonably be produced" from 24 oz of bud....no idea. I get mebe 5 grams of amber glass from an oz of nice buds, another fella might get 10 grams of dark oil from the same amount.

 

[Stress_test]

........
the bill states that
A qualifying patient or designated provider in possession of cannabis plants, useable cannabis, or cannabis product exceeding the limits set forth in RCW 69.51A.040(1) but otherwise in compliance with all other terms and conditions of this chapter may establish an affirmative defense to charges of violations of state law relating to cannabis through proof at trial, by a preponderance of the evidence, that the qualifying patient's necessary medical use exceeds the amounts set forth in RCW 69.51A.040(1). An investigating peace officer may seize cannabis plants, useable
cannabis, or cannabis product exceeding the amounts set forth in RCW 69.51A.040(1): PROVIDED, That in the case of cannabis plants, the
qualifying patient or designated provider shall be allowed to select the plants that will remain at the location. The officer and his or
her law enforcement agency may not be held civilly liable for failure to seize cannabis in this circumstance

so the patient gets to make the choice of which plants the officer may confiscate.


Stress test:
the section you quote from regarding "no more product than could reasonably be produced..." refers to cannabis "products" extracts such as hash or oil, foodstuffs, lotions etc..

under the current law, the WA RCW makes no distinction between resin/extracts and actual plant material. so i could have 24 oz of hash, and would be within my legal limit. this would change that.

how they are gonna determine what could "reasonably be produced" from 24 oz of bud....no idea. I get mebe 5 grams of amber glass from an oz of nice buds, another fella might get 10 grams of dark oil from the same amount.

Right that is how I understand it also.

Under the definition being used: Any part of the plant that "could be used" would be "usable cannabis".

(1) The qualifying patient or designated provider possesses no more than fifteen cannabis plants and no more than twenty-four ounces of useable cannabis,

15 plants plus 24oz. of "usable cannabis".

OR:

no more cannabis product than reasonably could be produced with no more than twenty-four ounces of useable cannabis,

So if you have 24 oz of hash or oil then you would be illegal because nobody could "reasonably" produce 24 oz of hash from 24 oz of bud.

OR:

a combination of useable cannabis and cannabis product that does not exceed a combined total representing possession and processing of no more than twenty-four ounces of useable cannabis,

So if you have 15 plants, 4oz of bud and 12oz of hash you would be illegal since the combined total would exceed the amount required to process the 12oz of hash, OR as they say: "exceed a combined total representing possession and processing of no more than twenty-four ounces of useable cannabis". Basically they are saying that since you would have to had possessed more than a legal amount of "usable cannabis" to process the 12oz of hash, then you would be in violation.

........
@Stress test:
the section you quote from regarding "no more product than could reasonably be produced..." refers to cannabis "products" extracts such as hash or oil, foodstuffs, lotions etc..

under the current law, the WA RCW makes no distinction between resin/extracts and actual plant material. so i could have 24 oz of hash, and would be within my legal limit. this would change that.

how they are gonna determine what could "reasonably be produced" from 24 oz of bud....no idea. I get mebe 5 grams of amber glass from an oz of nice buds, another fella might get 10 grams of dark oil from the same amount.

Right but when that cop comes and inspects you operation and decides that you have too many plants or that your plants will produce more than your 24oz legal limit then he can confiscate however many he decides will make you legal. Then he can decide if he is going to cite you or not. If he doesn't cite you then you don't even get the chance to argue to the judge that you only use the very best buds and the rest is waste as far as you are concerned. The cop doesn't have to cite or charge you, he can confiscate a couple plants and dispose of them however he wants.

Now what if that cop has a couple of friends who are MMJ patients but they don't have as good of genetics as you do?

I don't like the idea of opening my medical records up for LEO or any other branch of government either. At least under the current law we don't have to register with a government database.
My doctors and my medical problems are my own. It isn't anybody elses business why I might take penicillin or vicodin or smoke mmj. As long as I have a prescription or a legal right to have and use it then it's nobody elses business.

 

[Bacchus]

DEA is fucking the shit out of CO, CA, and NV wonder why OR is so special?...

Oregon is special because our Attorney General told the DEA to go fuck themselves when they asked for the list of registered patients.

A question. Do you think there is a jury in Washington that would convict a medical grower who is growing a few plants over the limit ?
Do you think there is a DA in Washington state who would try to prosecute a medical grower?? I do NOT think so.

Bring on the paranoia

 

[schwagg]

might as well kick the doors in and count the number of prescip pills too.

 

[Stress_test]

A question. Do you think there is a jury in Washington that would convict a medical grower who is growing a few plants over the limit ?
Do you think there is a DA in Washington state who would try to prosecute a medical grower?? I do NOT think so.

Bring on the paranoia

Yes I do... A jury is required to convict if the person is guilty according the the language of the law. Keep in mind that precinct election results are public record, and DA's are elected according to how they prosecute. In areas where the people voted against MMJ the DA is likely going to try for a conviction, knowing that a majority of the people who elected him are against MMJ.

But that is only one aspect of the issue. Even if a jury acquits: chances are that the person has already lost their medicine grow and spent some time in jail. At the very least they had to show up for court and waste a day sitting in the courthouse in misery.

But even if they don't get charged: How many honest cops have you ever met? How many cops do you suppose would confiscate a plant and give it to his buddy who is growing bagseed?
"Oh I'll let it slide this time without a fine or citation but I have to take a few of your plants cause anybody can see that those buds will weigh far more than 24oz."

And ya know what? It isn't paranoia when people are afraid of a legitimate threat.
I don't know about you, but in my life time I don't remember any time that the government ever passed a law that done me any favors, without sacrificing some freedoms.

 

[laughingmoon]

Would this bill negate the reasonable search clause? If cannabis is legal, the cops cant search a car because they smell an odor. The same goes with growing at home. If it's legal, then cops can't get a search warrant (and thus count the actual number of plants) because a neighbor smells weed.

 

[Stress_test]

No, because the patient, producer and processor all have to show and tell if asked by LEO or DeptOfAg.
They have to show "everything" when asked. So unless they have evidence otherwise, they can't search further. Theoretically somebody could grow a "legal room" and have a second grow also.

But the whole thing is that they are already talking about every stage MMJ is registered, inspected, documented and marked or labeled, from seed to smoke.
Okay the grower has to record everything he does. Account for every gram that grows in his garden from seed to labeled package. All inspected and certified by Dept. of Ag. BUT he can only sell it to a processor.
The processor has to record and document every gram he buys and record where it ends up. BUT he can only sell to patients.

Now everybody knows how much is grown, processed and smoked, and who smoked it and how much of what strain.

I wonder how long before some pharmaceutical company buys up the rights to sell us the service of sending our prescription every month like they do for Diabetics or asthma? Hell in 3 years they will know exactly how much to prescribe somebody diagnosed with Crohn's disease using all those statistics.

 

[mugenbao]

.

 

[GanjaPharma]

At least under the current law we don't have to register with a government database.

the registry with the dept of health is voluntary.

 

[xaraph]

Yes I do... A jury is required to convict if the person is guilty according the the language of the law.

That's not true. Jury Nullification is a long-upheld right at both federal and state levels. It was largely because of Jury Nullification that the 21st amendment repealed the federal prohibition of alcohol (a significant number of juries refused to pass down prohibition verdicts) .

Juries are there to ensure that justice is upheld before the law, not because of it.

 

[Koroz]

That's not true. Jury Nullification is a long-upheld right at both federal and state levels. It was largely because of Jury Nullification that the 21st amendment repealed the federal prohibition of alcohol (a significant number of juries refused to pass down prohibition verdicts) .

Juries are there to ensure that justice is upheld before the law, not because of it.

good post. +rep.