Vote YES or NO on Prop 19

[Hydrosun]

Not from what I see above-- Those Taxes and Permits were aimed at those that are selling-- But I did notice the absence of any Tax or Penalty for Medical Grows, that are not being sold--
Like the Humboldt thingy, where it is directed at Medical Grows...I oppose that-- There are many Collectives that are not money based, I think I referenced WAMM, that should not have to endure a cost like that, which they would have no choice but to start charging Patients for--
I feel the same for Dispensaries that grow their own product...they already will be Taxed, and had to pay for Permits...so I don't think they should have to pay for Taxes and Permits for their Grows...since they are already doing so for the Distribution--
But for those who are growing to sell to dispensaries, or whoever...I don't see why they should not have to pay for that, the same as any other Distributor--

on nonprofit medical cannabis businesses not exceeding $25.00 per square foot for the first 3000 square feet and $10 per foot thereafter;

Well I read things differently. To me it looks like they want $75K from a 3,000sq' garden for a collective.

Also why are fees 60% less when you get over 3ksq'? Well it is because 57K of Richard Lee's 60K warehouse are over three K.

Life is fun if you are the bigger more equal animal.

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

on nonprofit medical cannabis businesses not exceeding $25.00 per square foot for the first 3000 square feet and $10 per foot thereafter;

Well I read things differently. To me it looks like they want $75K from a 3,000sq' garden for a collective.

Also why are fees 60% less when you get over 3ksq'? Well it is because 57K of Richard Lee's 60K warehouse are over three K.

Life is fun if you are the bigger more equal animal.

And what if ammiano gets abx6-9 passed and caps fees @ $5k ?

 

[stonedstoner]

so i've finally decided that i am going to vote yes on prop 19. i had been leaning towards no for the longest time. but i have been won over.

i do not agree with the tight restrictions in prop 19 such as only being able to transport an ounce and only being able to grow in a 25 sq ft area. but what do i care? i have a doctors rec and i can carry and grow as much as i want. and anyone that wants to do more than that can also get a recommendation. so tight restrictions is not a good enough reason for me to vote no. also the fact that the possession and growing limits can be expanded but not tightened is good. we have to start somewhere and we need numbers that can actually get this thing passed and then change them later.

also what i did not like was that the age is 21+ i think the age should be 18...but fuck it...i'm over 21. so i guess it doesn't really matter to me. not a good enough reason for me to vote no.

another reason i didn't like it was because i thought big business would step in and take everything over. but the fact that it will be up to the counties to decide how it will be regulated and taxed and whatnot is tight because they can protect the current mom and pop growers that have been doing it for years.

the only thing that i really wish prop 19 had in it is something that said cops cannot use marijuana possession or the scent of marijuana as probable cause for searches and whatnot. that isn't in there is it?

well anyways....i used to think that i would either not vote or vote no on prop 19. but i have just recently changed my mind and am voting yes.

i urge all california residents to please vote YES on Prop 19. this is huge and it is really hard to get initiatives on the ballot. there is a legalization bill on the ballot now and we need to pass it. it's not perfect, but it can be fixed later. we need to get this thing passed.

 

[beta]

the only thing that i really wish prop 19 had in it is something that said cops cannot use marijuana possession or the scent of marijuana as probable cause for searches and whatnot. that isn't in there is it?

If possession of cannabis is legal, why would smelling like cannabis be probable cause to search you?

Either way, great to hear you've come around!

 

[stonedstoner]

If possession of cannabis is legal, why would smelling like cannabis be probable cause to search you?

Either way, great to hear you've come around!

im just afraid that the cops could still use it as probable cause to see how much you have. i think most ppl are just assuming that it will end probable cause but it doesn't exactly say that in prop 19. i'm just saying that i wish there was a clause that said possession of marijuana cannot be grounds for probable cause.

 

[Thundurkel]

They need Reasonable Suspicion before they can have Probable Cause and it takes a lot folks just assume cops can do as they please. Shit if I'm not being detained I'm out fuck off I know my rights...

But I'm still a BIG NO ON 19!!! Have you guys seen what the Feds said about it??? If it passes folks are going to get raided left and right just like I said would happen. They are mad that the state is protecting it's med patients so they put this bill into play. Now they can go back to busting small growers and robbing money.. When it happens just remember I warned you all!

 

[Thundurkel]

It sounds like Baca is doing just that. He's already in line, on his knees, with his mouth open.



Shit's about to get real.

Yea it is doors all over Cali are going to get kicked in.. I just hope us Med Patients who are legal don't get raided to and say " we had info he was this and that ect"

 

[Bacchus]

Yea it is doors all over Cali are going to get kicked in.. I just hope us Med Patients who are legal don't get raided to and say " we had info he was this and that ect"

Where are the feds going to get the money for all of these "raids"???? If they do not have $$$ now it will not magically appear. The DEA has it's hands full already. Unless you hit there cost/return limit 99 plants, you should not need to worry.

 

[dagnabit]

wow i see cowardice abounds...

trading essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety?

 

[Hydrosun]

And what if ammiano gets abx6-9 passed and caps fees @ $5k ?

That would be WONDERFUL!

 

[BigBudBill]

They need Reasonable Suspicion before they can have Probable Cause and it takes a lot folks just assume cops can do as they please. Shit if I'm not being detained I'm out fuck off I know my rights...

But I'm still a BIG NO ON 19!!! Have you guys seen what the Feds said about it??? If it passes folks are going to get raided left and right just like I said would happen. They are mad that the state is protecting it's med patients so they put this bill into play. Now they can go back to busting small growers and robbing money.. When it happens just remember I warned you all!

Fear.....you like to be scared and attempt to scare others. Most folks with any common sense know who the feds will go after. And that person is ready.

 

[BigBudBill]

Yea it is doors all over Cali are going to get kicked in.. I just hope us Med Patients who are legal don't get raided to and say " we had info he was this and that ect"

More fear.....must suck to be that scared of the boogie man.

 

[DRorganic]

whats up with the political party out ther in cali like barbra boxer and other democratic party members .she needs to go. i hope it passes from va out

 

[vta]

They need Reasonable Suspicion before they can have Probable Cause and it takes a lot folks just assume cops can do as they please. Shit if I'm not being detained I'm out fuck off I know my rights...

But I'm still a BIG NO ON 19!!! Have you guys seen what the Feds said about it??? If it passes folks are going to get raided left and right just like I said would happen. They are mad that the state is protecting it's med patients so they put this bill into play. Now they can go back to busting small growers and robbing money.. When it happens just remember I warned you all!

Yea it is doors all over Cali are going to get kicked in.. I just hope us Med Patients who are legal don't get raided to and say " we had info he was this and that ect"

Be scared...very scared !!

 

[mean mr.mustard]

More fear.....must suck to be that scared of the boogie man.

Especially when the boogie man is real... and likes to kick in doors and shoot dogs, and once in a while, an unarmed pot grower.

I don't really see anyone alleviating any of this fear so many dislike seeing.

The next best thing to a solution is certainly mockery.

 

[BigBudBill]

Especially when the boogie man is real... and likes to kick in doors and shoot dogs, and once in a while, an unarmed pot grower.

I don't really see anyone alleviating any of this fear so many dislike seeing.

The next best thing to a solution is certainly mockery.

I'm still not scared. Sorry, maybe their years and years and years and years(get the point?) of peddling fear has made me numb. I don't believe in boogie men. I can't even get a cop to come look at a small grow to assure a landlord I am in compliance. Just sayin....

 

[Herborizer]

Especially when the boogie man is real... and likes to kick in doors and shoot dogs, and once in a while, an unarmed pot grower.

I don't really see anyone alleviating any of this fear so many dislike seeing.

The next best thing to a solution is certainly mockery.

As a prop 19 proponent, I fear the law. That recent thread I started where that woman had 63 court appearances over possession of less than an oz should be a wakup call for anyone. We should be scared, very scared. This is precisely one of the main reasons I am voting Yes on 19.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

As a prop 19 proponent, I fear the law. That recent thread I started where that woman had 63 court appearances over possession of less than an oz should be a wakup call for anyone. We should be scared, very scared. This is precisely one of the main reasons I am voting Yes on 19.

I think that this is the most reasonable post I've read in response to one of mine in quite some time.

That's good to see.

 

[vta]

15 Million Americans Have Been Arrested


cannabis USA -- Criminal laws are not an effective way to control marijuana; removing criminal penalties does not lead to increased use; decriminalization creates savings in law enforcement.

The great divide between politicians and the people is showing itself in California where polls show the voters support Proposition 19 and where the mainstream politicians mostly oppose it.

To many Americans, there are few policies more bankrupt than the prohibition on marijuana use, a recognition that a blue-ribbon panel reached four decades ago, urging an emphasis on drug education rather than incarceration.

In 1970, the National Commission on Marijuana and Drug Abuse recommended ending the illegality of marijuana in the United States. The Dutch also had a national commission that reached the same conclusion.

The difference was the Dutch listened to their experts and President Nixon and other American politicians ignored the U.S. experts. Well, the results are in – the experts were right and the politicians were wrong, even on the issue of how many people use marijuana. It turns out prohibition was less successful than decriminalization.

According to surveys conducted by both governments: in the United States 41 percent of Americans have used marijuana, compared to 22.6 percent in Holland.

In 2001, based on recommendations from a national commission, Portugal went further than Holland and abolished all criminal penalties for possession of marijuana and other drugs. The result – reduced use, reduced costs and reduced damage from marijuana to people’s lives.

Following decriminalization, Portugal had the lowest rate of lifetime marijuana use in people over 15 in the European Union, a mere 10 percent. Further, Portugal reports that use dropped among teens: rates of lifetime use of any illegal drug among seventh through ninth graders fell from 14.1 percent to 10.6 percent; drug use in older teens also declined.

Yet, rather than listen to the experts four decades ago, President Nixon doubled down on the already failed and mistaken policy. The result was 100,000 additional arrests the year after the experts said people should no longer be treated as criminals for marijuana use.

And, since the experts said it should not be a crime nearly 15 million Americans have been arrested. Only four states have populations larger than the number of people arrested for marijuana since the experts said people should not be arrested for marijuana offenses.

Still, the status quo politicians in California – people like Sen. Dianne Feinstein and Gov .Arnold Schwarzenegger – continue to want to ignore the experts and, more important, they want to ignore the people.

Polls have consistently shown Proposition 19 to be 7 to 11 points ahead of those who oppose the initiative. Nationally polls show large pluralities and even a majority of Americans oppose keeping marijuana illegal.

How can police continue to enforce laws that half the people oppose? What kind of legitimacy does enforcement of such laws have? Won’t enforcing illegitimate laws undermine police relations with communities?

That is why smart, experienced police officers like Neil Franklin, a 33-year law enforcement veteran at both the state and city levels supports Proposition 19. Officer Franklin sees Prop. 19 as a step toward healing the division between the people and the police.

He recognizes that marijuana prohibition undermines the relationship between police and the people they serve because when they come into their neighborhoods it is to search homes, cars and people. It creates distrust and undermines effective community policing.

So, this Nov. 2, the people of California have an opportunity to tell the professional politicians that most voters want to end policies that do not work and undermine law enforcement.

It is obvious to most people that the war on marijuana has been a destructive failure, but the politicians still don’t get it.

Of course, if I were a politician who supported marijuana being illegal throughout my career, I would not want to admit I was wrong. Hard to say “sorry we arrested you and ruined your life for something that should not have been illegal.”

It is hard to admit an error so large and so destructive to millions of lives.

Time magazine reports that the instincts of Officer Neil Franklin are right. Joao Castel-Branco Goulao, Portugual's "drug czar" and president of the Institute on Drugs and Drug Addiction, told Time that police are now able to re-focus on more serious crimes.

In fact, the experience in the United States is the same. In 1982, the National Academy of Sciences issues a report entitled “An Analysis of Marijuana Policy.” It recommended going beyond decriminalization and beginning to regulate the sale of marijuana.

In making this recommendation, the report looked at states that had decriminalized marijuana possession and found the reform had “not led to appreciably higher levels of marijuana use than would have existed if use were also prohibited.”

The NAS also reported savings in tax dollars by ending criminal enforcement against marijuana possession, noting “substantial savings in states that have repealed laws that prohibit use.”

And, as Officer Franklin noted, the NAS found “alienation from the rule of law in democratic society may be the most serious cost of current marijuana laws.”

Such savings are also predicted if California passes Prop. 19.

The California Legislative Analyst says it would enable California to put police priorities where they belong saying it "could result in savings to the state and local governments by reducing the number of marijuana offenders incarcerated in state prisons and county jails, as well as the number placed under county probation or state parole supervision.

“These savings could reach several tens of millions of dollars annually. The county jail savings would be offset to the extent that jail beds no longer needed for marijuana offenders were used for other criminals who are now being released early because of a lack of jail space."

The findings of the experts are consistent: criminal laws are not an effective way to control marijuana; removing criminal penalties does not lead to increased use; decriminalization creates savings in law enforcement and better relations between community and police.

In the year of supposed voter outrage against politics as usual, California voters may send one of the clearest messages to the politicians, that it is time to end the decades-old criminal prohibition on marijuana use by adults.

Kevin Zeese is President of Common Sense for Drug Policy (www.csdp.org).

Source: AlterNet (US)
Author: Kevin Zeese

 

[Hydrosun]

14day and 7hrs until polls close. It is going to be pretty cool watching CA get tons of cana tourism.