VerdantGreen's quarters - 205w LED Organic Mod. ScrOG
- Thread starter VerdantGreen
- Start date
bootz - good point!
blimblomb, evaluating something like extra resin/trics from adding UV is always going to be tricky, but the fundamental truth i base this on is that well grown outdoor weed that has seen plenty of sunshine tends to have a wider range of psychedelic effect and aroma than indoor grown weed. and the idea that resin is a protection against uv damage is probably the best theory for it's production. i also have a theory that the aromas in resin were originally for the purpose of attracting insects for pollination (because all wind pollinated plants originally evolved from insect pollinated plants)
so adding UV is bringing the indoor grow a little closer to natural sunlight.
i actually have a sharksbreath in my smaller LED cab atm as well so we will have to get some comparison pics to see if there is a visual difference. posters like strainbrain, who's opinion/experience i respect, also report a noticeable difference.
having the t5 ballast is cool as well because there are lots of different tubes to try. i will still use green in early flower i think - and i may try blue to see if it reduces stretch when i have to go back to hps in this cab soon (too cold in the loft for LED over the cold months)
VG
blimblomb, evaluating something like extra resin/trics from adding UV is always going to be tricky, but the fundamental truth i base this on is that well grown outdoor weed that has seen plenty of sunshine tends to have a wider range of psychedelic effect and aroma than indoor grown weed. and the idea that resin is a protection against uv damage is probably the best theory for it's production. i also have a theory that the aromas in resin were originally for the purpose of attracting insects for pollination (because all wind pollinated plants originally evolved from insect pollinated plants)
so adding UV is bringing the indoor grow a little closer to natural sunlight.
i actually have a sharksbreath in my smaller LED cab atm as well so we will have to get some comparison pics to see if there is a visual difference. posters like strainbrain, who's opinion/experience i respect, also report a noticeable difference.
having the t5 ballast is cool as well because there are lots of different tubes to try. i will still use green in early flower i think - and i may try blue to see if it reduces stretch when i have to go back to hps in this cab soon (too cold in the loft for LED over the cold months)
VG
i weighed up the power black harvest today ind it came out at 45g which equates to 1.2 gpw or a bit less if you include the UV t5 tube (which is for potency rather than weight)
i will have a picture update tomorrow
VG
i will have a picture update tomorrow
VG
hi all - got some pics.
herijuana at 8 weeks or so - this is a frosty one! smells like it's going to be pretty pokey too. cant wait. wanted to toke on this strain for a while...
Sharksbreath at 9 weeks. leaves starting to fade now
and here are the seedlings that were repotted just after the photo. haze looks good. the chem x diesel look a bit hungry and perhaps i should have repotted a few days ago but no time. very strong root growth on these.
so the current round is nearly finished - just the heri and SB left to harvest in the next couple of weeks. ill then give the cab a good clean before the next round.
cheers
VG
herijuana at 8 weeks or so - this is a frosty one! smells like it's going to be pretty pokey too. cant wait. wanted to toke on this strain for a while...
Sharksbreath at 9 weeks. leaves starting to fade now
and here are the seedlings that were repotted just after the photo. haze looks good. the chem x diesel look a bit hungry and perhaps i should have repotted a few days ago but no time. very strong root growth on these.
so the current round is nearly finished - just the heri and SB left to harvest in the next couple of weeks. ill then give the cab a good clean before the next round.
cheers
VG
thanks g0v, yeah i have some plans for the heri in the way of crosses. i did cross it to the kentish creme but the timing was slightly wrong and im not sure i got any viable seeds.
couple of crosses i have in mind for the future - providing its smokes up to the hype
cheers
VG
couple of crosses i have in mind for the future - providing its smokes up to the hype
cheers
VG
smokinweedgi
Member
you have done plenty real nice grow diaries verdant so thanks
you get real good results with the led light s
if you had to get a new light for a grow would you now buy led over hps?
i mean have u converted to led think they are better for small grows
im not trying to start the whole hps/led debate just asking your opinion
thanks
you get real good results with the led light s
if you had to get a new light for a grow would you now buy led over hps?
i mean have u converted to led think they are better for small grows
im not trying to start the whole hps/led debate just asking your opinion
thanks
hey smokinweedgi, thanks for the kind words. these two plants look to have done very well under the LED and the sharksbreath may be the best gpw yet.
as for HPS or LED, my conclusions so far are that LED will yield slightly better than HPS on a watt per watt basis. this '205w' LED unit that i am using actually uses 180watts, and my 250 HPS, although it gives me a bigger total yield from the cab, uses 304watts - which is a LOT more power. i think that one of the 345w units - which would actually use about 300w, the same as a 250hps - would beat the 250 quite easily.
having said all that, this cabinet was designed for my 250hps and reflector, had i designed it for the LED i would have made it 30x30 rather than 24x30 and this i would have got 15% or so more yield from the LED.
the LED's are better in places where high temps might be a problem and have allowed me to run my lights during the day this summer - but during the cooler months i will go back to hps in this cab because otherwise i would be using power heating the space anyway so i may as well use the extra power on a hotter light - if that makes any sense.
for cabs too small for a 250 hps i would say that LED is probably the best choice all round because the 250 hps is imo the smallest hps worth using - due to the hugely increased light output as the wattage goes up.
Blimey - the heri should come down this week. i am standing over it most of the time with a scythe slung over my shoulder, regularly consulting a large hourglass that i keep in the pocket of my long flowing black cloak.
as for HPS or LED, my conclusions so far are that LED will yield slightly better than HPS on a watt per watt basis. this '205w' LED unit that i am using actually uses 180watts, and my 250 HPS, although it gives me a bigger total yield from the cab, uses 304watts - which is a LOT more power. i think that one of the 345w units - which would actually use about 300w, the same as a 250hps - would beat the 250 quite easily.
having said all that, this cabinet was designed for my 250hps and reflector, had i designed it for the LED i would have made it 30x30 rather than 24x30 and this i would have got 15% or so more yield from the LED.
the LED's are better in places where high temps might be a problem and have allowed me to run my lights during the day this summer - but during the cooler months i will go back to hps in this cab because otherwise i would be using power heating the space anyway so i may as well use the extra power on a hotter light - if that makes any sense.
for cabs too small for a 250 hps i would say that LED is probably the best choice all round because the 250 hps is imo the smallest hps worth using - due to the hugely increased light output as the wattage goes up.
Blimey - the heri should come down this week. i am standing over it most of the time with a scythe slung over my shoulder, regularly consulting a large hourglass that i keep in the pocket of my long flowing black cloak.
smokinweedgi
Member
thanks verdant just about to order my first led
Amazing work as usual VerdantGreen, you are an inspiration to us all. That Herijuana looks frightening, I'd probably run away and hide. The image of you with your scythe looking fearless while smoking that gigantic doobie (in your avatar) is a good one.
sx646522
Member
Nice work there Green^2. One might almost think you've done this before.
While I understand the use of blue(r) light in the garden (along with your HPS), I've also read the journal studies re: green light, and am curious myself. 'Twill be interesting to see if you realize any additional (statistically significant) efficiencies from its use within the electron transport chain. How many watts of green FL are you thinking of adding, all told?
I've also wondered whether its use by itself (not simply as additive in the presence of other spectrums) during the dark period might be beneficial, as well. Also been playing around with the idea of extending the normal photoperiod and shortening the night time with the proper application of far red light to change the dimer state equilibrium of Phytochrome back to Pr more quickly.
(So (EX#1): ~16 hr 'day', ~8 hr 'night', adding FR (IR) from, say, ~15min before to ~30 min after 'sunset' to keep the girls in flowering - and/or add green light to the equation in both the light (and/or) dark period(s)) in the interest of: 1) increasing absolute production, and/or 2) reducing total flowering time. Having additional photosynthesis occur during the dark period without kicking the ladies back into veg (or causing inhibition) might come in handy, no? )
The science is solid, the question is what level of sensitivity and tolerance certain strains of mj have for short-day photoperiod manipulation and photomorphological thresholds - and where the point of diminishing returns is (ratio of useful biomass increase (per specific dose-response curve) - i.e. calyx/leaf ratios, harvest index, etc.)
Some monochromatic light panels for proper testing are in order, methinks...
So VG, what's your overall take on your CMH runs? The spectrals look great - and I believe you thought there was more of a 'frost factor' for what you were running, compared to the usual? Or, would you indeed go back to HPS?
I've played with various sizes of HPS over the past couple of decades, and while I could definitely get a little bigger on the colas going larger (and having better l/w efficiencies), I found when I downsized that my 150W HPS could still pull ~5-6oz with clones (NLxBB) in a ScrOG fairly consistently. More than enough for me, these days...
I've come to the opinion that even with the reduction in l/w from going smaller (wattage-wise), you'll also have markedly less 1/r^2 losses (point source light intensity dropoff) from the center to the edge of the usable light area (in a smaller garden), so it just about evens out - or thereabouts - in terms of yield (per unit of measurement). At least, down to ~150W...~70W, not so much.
Cheers mate,
-SX
While I understand the use of blue(r) light in the garden (along with your HPS), I've also read the journal studies re: green light, and am curious myself. 'Twill be interesting to see if you realize any additional (statistically significant) efficiencies from its use within the electron transport chain. How many watts of green FL are you thinking of adding, all told?
I've also wondered whether its use by itself (not simply as additive in the presence of other spectrums) during the dark period might be beneficial, as well. Also been playing around with the idea of extending the normal photoperiod and shortening the night time with the proper application of far red light to change the dimer state equilibrium of Phytochrome back to Pr more quickly.
(So (EX#1): ~16 hr 'day', ~8 hr 'night', adding FR (IR) from, say, ~15min before to ~30 min after 'sunset' to keep the girls in flowering - and/or add green light to the equation in both the light (and/or) dark period(s)) in the interest of: 1) increasing absolute production, and/or 2) reducing total flowering time. Having additional photosynthesis occur during the dark period without kicking the ladies back into veg (or causing inhibition) might come in handy, no? )
The science is solid, the question is what level of sensitivity and tolerance certain strains of mj have for short-day photoperiod manipulation and photomorphological thresholds - and where the point of diminishing returns is (ratio of useful biomass increase (per specific dose-response curve) - i.e. calyx/leaf ratios, harvest index, etc.)
Some monochromatic light panels for proper testing are in order, methinks...
So VG, what's your overall take on your CMH runs? The spectrals look great - and I believe you thought there was more of a 'frost factor' for what you were running, compared to the usual? Or, would you indeed go back to HPS?
I've played with various sizes of HPS over the past couple of decades, and while I could definitely get a little bigger on the colas going larger (and having better l/w efficiencies), I found when I downsized that my 150W HPS could still pull ~5-6oz with clones (NLxBB) in a ScrOG fairly consistently. More than enough for me, these days...
I've come to the opinion that even with the reduction in l/w from going smaller (wattage-wise), you'll also have markedly less 1/r^2 losses (point source light intensity dropoff) from the center to the edge of the usable light area (in a smaller garden), so it just about evens out - or thereabouts - in terms of yield (per unit of measurement). At least, down to ~150W...~70W, not so much.
Cheers mate,
-SX
mr G! - thanks for stopping by and thanks for the kind words. Im very much looking forward to trying your Cherry Bomb in this cab as soon as i have space.
bootz! - today may be the day for reaping the heri. i also took a reveg cutting of it a couple of weeks ago and just saw roots on it - apparently though that plant looks very normal for heri. big shout out to pp for the gift of heri seeds as well
i crossed the heri male i had to my sharksbreath and the seeds look well formed now too
sx - my t5 rig is just 2 x 26w tubes. the green i use in early flower and then swap to UV tubes in an attempt to stimulate potency in mid-late flower. i certainly got decent yields from the power black and these two are looking fat, but to quantify what 'extra' the green might give will be hard. green is sposed to work best in bright white (as in mixed spectrum) lighting.
cannabis is a 'dark period' plant, the day length is variable but you need a certain night length to keep it in flower afaik. if i was to try messing with the light cycle i would probably try keepng a 12hr dark period but extending the day length. i read somewhere that 15-16 hr day and 12 hr night can work well. the idea of some light during the night cycle is interesting but i dont think im brave enough to experiment with that.
the CMH worked well and seemed to produce slightly 'fuller' smelling weed, but i felt that some strains responded to it better than others and it made others a little more leafy (like outdoor weed is). i only did a couple of runs with it so i need to try more. my immediate thoughts were that cmh mixed with hps would work better than cmh on it's own.
the next bulb i am going to try this winter is a dual spectrum hps 250. my supplier has just started to carry the sunmaster ones.
cheers - i'll be checking on that heri shortly
VG
bootz! - today may be the day for reaping the heri. i also took a reveg cutting of it a couple of weeks ago and just saw roots on it - apparently though that plant looks very normal for heri. big shout out to pp for the gift of heri seeds as well
i crossed the heri male i had to my sharksbreath and the seeds look well formed now too
sx - my t5 rig is just 2 x 26w tubes. the green i use in early flower and then swap to UV tubes in an attempt to stimulate potency in mid-late flower. i certainly got decent yields from the power black and these two are looking fat, but to quantify what 'extra' the green might give will be hard. green is sposed to work best in bright white (as in mixed spectrum) lighting.
cannabis is a 'dark period' plant, the day length is variable but you need a certain night length to keep it in flower afaik. if i was to try messing with the light cycle i would probably try keepng a 12hr dark period but extending the day length. i read somewhere that 15-16 hr day and 12 hr night can work well. the idea of some light during the night cycle is interesting but i dont think im brave enough to experiment with that.
the CMH worked well and seemed to produce slightly 'fuller' smelling weed, but i felt that some strains responded to it better than others and it made others a little more leafy (like outdoor weed is). i only did a couple of runs with it so i need to try more. my immediate thoughts were that cmh mixed with hps would work better than cmh on it's own.
the next bulb i am going to try this winter is a dual spectrum hps 250. my supplier has just started to carry the sunmaster ones.
cheers - i'll be checking on that heri shortly
VG
hey VG,finally got my 205w unit fired up! will be building my scrogs soon and joining you
Wow VerdantGreen what a good thread with great pictures.
yay unc! - you are going to love the way the plants grow under these lights! 
Brainsellz - thanks for stopping by
---
the scythe has swung. the heri is trimmed and hanging. strong fruity skunky smell and very sticky!
VG
Brainsellz - thanks for stopping by
---
the scythe has swung. the heri is trimmed and hanging. strong fruity skunky smell and very sticky!
VG
WFT happened to my post... ???
this is nuts... I could have SWORN I posted on here lastnight..
I have a few questions for you ...
1) When you do your GPW calculations, do you divide your watts by #of plants? Then each plant only has to produce that many grams to achieve 1GPW?
2) How would you rate the density of your buds with the LEDs?
3) After a few grows now, do you see anything you dont like about the led grow and yeild.
Just saw the savings on the power bill from shutting down one HID and was like WOW! Im on the hunt for the leds.
this is nuts... I could have SWORN I posted on here lastnight..
I have a few questions for you ...
1) When you do your GPW calculations, do you divide your watts by #of plants? Then each plant only has to produce that many grams to achieve 1GPW?
2) How would you rate the density of your buds with the LEDs?
3) After a few grows now, do you see anything you dont like about the led grow and yeild.
Just saw the savings on the power bill from shutting down one HID and was like WOW! Im on the hunt for the leds.
hey one Q - my gpw calcs 1/4 of the total cab wattage for each plant - they are all grown in exactly a quarter of the space and the light is dead centre.
density is fine, the LED's are good - see my post a page or two back for my conclusions on LED vs HPS
---
here is the last plant from this round - the sharksbreath at 10 weeks+ it will get chopped next week
also here is what's new for the cab (although i'll put the hps back in shortly as its starting to get cold in the attic - so i guess i'll resurrect my old hps thread)
chemdog x sour diesel
VG
density is fine, the LED's are good - see my post a page or two back for my conclusions on LED vs HPS
---
here is the last plant from this round - the sharksbreath at 10 weeks+ it will get chopped next week
also here is what's new for the cab (although i'll put the hps back in shortly as its starting to get cold in the attic - so i guess i'll resurrect my old hps thread)
chemdog x sour diesel
VG
S
schwagg
very healthy looking young lady's Verdant!
