What a vast difference from our last president, or many of the previous others. I will take that any day of the week.
USA strikes Syria again
- Thread starter EasyGoing
- Start date
i just hope he has the balls to stand up to all the war mongers he has around him. its one thing to say you want out, it's a much harder thing to order it, specially if all your advisors and officials are telling you its a huge mistake, the last president that had balls that big, ended being assassinated. JFK was the the one that stood up to all his advisors and there by stopped world ww3 during the Cuban missile crisis. but whether Trump will have the strength to do that remains to be seen. i do hope so, as i'd like to see Syria find peace again and that will never happen as long as the US stays there. all the groups have to realize that there is no choice other then to negotiate. as long as the US is there, neither the Kurds nor pretend moderates will negotiate if they see the US still there playing a role. it's only once they realize they can't win that the insurgents and gangs will give up and accept a political process.
Washington, D.C., April 21, 2016 - President John F Kennedy worried that Israel’s nuclear program was a potentially serious proliferation risk and insisted that Israel permit periodic inspections to mitigate the danger, according to declassified documents published today by the National Security Archive, Nuclear Proliferation International History Project, and the James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies.
Kennedy pressured the government of Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion to prevent a military nuclear program, particularly after stage-managed tours of the Dimona facility for U.S. government scientists in 1961 and 1962 raised suspicions within U.S. intelligence that Israel might be concealing its underlying nuclear aims. Kennedy’s long-run objective, documents show, was to broaden and institutionalize inspections of Dimona by the International Atomic Energy Agency.
On 30 May 1961, Kennedy met Ben-Gurion in Manhattan to discuss the bilateral relationship and Middle East issues. However, a central (and indeed the first) issue in their meeting was the Israeli nuclear program, about which President Kennedy was most concerned. According to a draft record of their discussion, which has never been cited, and is published here for the first time, Ben-Gurion spoke “rapidly and in a low voice” and “some words were missed.” He emphasized the peaceful, economic development-oriented nature of the Israeli nuclear project. Nevertheless the note taker, Assistant Secretary of State Philips Talbot, believed that he heard Ben-Gurion mention a “pilot” plant to process plutonium for “atomic power” and also say that “there is no intention to develop weapons capacity now.” Ben-Gurion tacitly acknowledged that the Dimona reactor had a military potential, or so Talbot believed he had heard. The final U.S. version of the memcon retained the sentence about plutonium but did not include the language about a “pilot” plant and “weapons capacity.”
The differences between the two versions suggest the difficulty of preparing accurate records of meetings. But whatever Ben-Gurion actually said, President Kennedy was never wholly satisfied with the insistence that Dimona was strictly a peaceful project. Neither were U.S. intelligence professionals.
A recently declassified National Intelligence Estimate on Israel prepared several months after the meeting, and published here for the first time, concluded that “Israel may have decided to undertake a nuclear weapons program. At a minimum, we believe it has decided to develop its nuclear facilities in such a way as to put it into a position to develop nuclear weapons promptly should it decide to do so.” This is the only NIE where the discussion of Dimona has been declassified in its entirety.
Declassified documents reveal that more than any other American president, John F. Kennedy was personally engaged with the problem of Israel’s nuclear program; he may also have been more concerned about it than any of his successors.
Of all U.S. leaders in the nuclear age, Kennedy was the nonproliferation president. Nuclear proliferation was his “private nightmare,” as Glenn Seaborg, his Atomic Energy Commission chairman, once noted. Kennedy came to office with the conviction that the spread of nuclear weapons would make the world a much more dangerous place; he saw proliferation as the path to a global nuclear war. This concern shaped his outlook on the Cold War even before the 1960 presidential campaign – by then he had already opposed the resumption of nuclear testing largely due to proliferation concerns – and his experience in office, especially the Cuban Missile Crisis, solidified it further.
This Electronic Briefing Book (EBB) is the first of two publications which address the subject of JFK, his administration, and the Israeli nuclear program. It includes about thirty documents produced by the State Department, the Atomic Energy Commission, and intelligence agencies, some of which highlight the president’s strong personal interest and direct role in moving nonproliferation policy forward during the administration’s first two years. Some of the documents have been only recently declassified, while others were located in archival collections; most are published here for the first time. The compilation begins with President Kennedy’s meeting with departing ambassador to Israel Odgen Reid on January 31, 1961, days after Kennedy took office, and concludes with the State Department’s internal review in late 1962 of the of the second U.S. visit in Dimona.
The documents published today also include:
The Atomic Energy Commission’s recently declassified report on the first official U.S. visit to the Dimona complex, in May 1961. The Ben-Gurion-Kennedy meeting was possible only after that visit produced a positive report on the peaceful, nonmilitary purposes of the reactor. According to the Atomic Energy Commission (AEC), Dimona “was conceived as a means for gaining experience in construction of a nuclear facility which would prepare them for nuclear power in the long run.”
A letter from the State Department to the AEC asking it to place prominent Israeli nuclear scientist Dr. Israel Dostrovsky of the Weizman Institute, who was a visiting researcher at the Brookhaven National Laboratory, under “discreet surveillance” as a “precautionary step” to safeguard U.S. nuclear know-how. The document notes Dostrovsky’s reputation as one of the individuals “primarily responsible for guiding Israel’s atomic energy program.” In 1966 Dostrovsky was appointed by Prime Minister Levi Eshkol as director-general of Israel’s Atomic Energy Commission, which he reorganized and gave new impetus.
Recently declassified records of U.S.-U.K. meetings during 1962 to discuss the possibilities of putting pressure on Israel to accept inspections of Dimona by the International Atomic Energy Agency. While State Department officials did not believe that pressure would work, they agreed that “IAEA controls should be our objective.” In the meantime, “interim ad hoc inspections” were necessary to satisfy ourselves and the world-at-large as to Israel’s intentions.”
An assessment of the second AEC visit to the Dimona site in September 1962. After weeks of diplomatic pressure by the Kennedy administration for a second visit, two AEC scientists who had inspected the U.S.-supplied Soreq reactor were “spontaneously” invited for a [tk: Bill, 40 or 45 minutes? All other references are to 40.] 45-minute tour to Dimona, while on their way back from an excursion to the Dead Sea. They had no time to see the complete installation, but they left the site with the impression that Dimona was a research reactor, not a production reactor. CIA and State Department officials were skeptical about the circumstances, unable to determine whether the spontaneous invitation was a treat or a trick.
So Kennedy was pissing off the Israeli's, by not agreeing to their nuclear proliferation.....maybe MOSSAD had something to do with his assasination?
more on this here: https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-...bout-nuclear-weapons-potential-john-f-kennedy
Kennedy pressured the government of Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion to prevent a military nuclear program, particularly after stage-managed tours of the Dimona facility for U.S. government scientists in 1961 and 1962 raised suspicions within U.S. intelligence that Israel might be concealing its underlying nuclear aims. Kennedy’s long-run objective, documents show, was to broaden and institutionalize inspections of Dimona by the International Atomic Energy Agency.
On 30 May 1961, Kennedy met Ben-Gurion in Manhattan to discuss the bilateral relationship and Middle East issues. However, a central (and indeed the first) issue in their meeting was the Israeli nuclear program, about which President Kennedy was most concerned. According to a draft record of their discussion, which has never been cited, and is published here for the first time, Ben-Gurion spoke “rapidly and in a low voice” and “some words were missed.” He emphasized the peaceful, economic development-oriented nature of the Israeli nuclear project. Nevertheless the note taker, Assistant Secretary of State Philips Talbot, believed that he heard Ben-Gurion mention a “pilot” plant to process plutonium for “atomic power” and also say that “there is no intention to develop weapons capacity now.” Ben-Gurion tacitly acknowledged that the Dimona reactor had a military potential, or so Talbot believed he had heard. The final U.S. version of the memcon retained the sentence about plutonium but did not include the language about a “pilot” plant and “weapons capacity.”
The differences between the two versions suggest the difficulty of preparing accurate records of meetings. But whatever Ben-Gurion actually said, President Kennedy was never wholly satisfied with the insistence that Dimona was strictly a peaceful project. Neither were U.S. intelligence professionals.
A recently declassified National Intelligence Estimate on Israel prepared several months after the meeting, and published here for the first time, concluded that “Israel may have decided to undertake a nuclear weapons program. At a minimum, we believe it has decided to develop its nuclear facilities in such a way as to put it into a position to develop nuclear weapons promptly should it decide to do so.” This is the only NIE where the discussion of Dimona has been declassified in its entirety.
Declassified documents reveal that more than any other American president, John F. Kennedy was personally engaged with the problem of Israel’s nuclear program; he may also have been more concerned about it than any of his successors.
Of all U.S. leaders in the nuclear age, Kennedy was the nonproliferation president. Nuclear proliferation was his “private nightmare,” as Glenn Seaborg, his Atomic Energy Commission chairman, once noted. Kennedy came to office with the conviction that the spread of nuclear weapons would make the world a much more dangerous place; he saw proliferation as the path to a global nuclear war. This concern shaped his outlook on the Cold War even before the 1960 presidential campaign – by then he had already opposed the resumption of nuclear testing largely due to proliferation concerns – and his experience in office, especially the Cuban Missile Crisis, solidified it further.
This Electronic Briefing Book (EBB) is the first of two publications which address the subject of JFK, his administration, and the Israeli nuclear program. It includes about thirty documents produced by the State Department, the Atomic Energy Commission, and intelligence agencies, some of which highlight the president’s strong personal interest and direct role in moving nonproliferation policy forward during the administration’s first two years. Some of the documents have been only recently declassified, while others were located in archival collections; most are published here for the first time. The compilation begins with President Kennedy’s meeting with departing ambassador to Israel Odgen Reid on January 31, 1961, days after Kennedy took office, and concludes with the State Department’s internal review in late 1962 of the of the second U.S. visit in Dimona.
The documents published today also include:
The Atomic Energy Commission’s recently declassified report on the first official U.S. visit to the Dimona complex, in May 1961. The Ben-Gurion-Kennedy meeting was possible only after that visit produced a positive report on the peaceful, nonmilitary purposes of the reactor. According to the Atomic Energy Commission (AEC), Dimona “was conceived as a means for gaining experience in construction of a nuclear facility which would prepare them for nuclear power in the long run.”
A letter from the State Department to the AEC asking it to place prominent Israeli nuclear scientist Dr. Israel Dostrovsky of the Weizman Institute, who was a visiting researcher at the Brookhaven National Laboratory, under “discreet surveillance” as a “precautionary step” to safeguard U.S. nuclear know-how. The document notes Dostrovsky’s reputation as one of the individuals “primarily responsible for guiding Israel’s atomic energy program.” In 1966 Dostrovsky was appointed by Prime Minister Levi Eshkol as director-general of Israel’s Atomic Energy Commission, which he reorganized and gave new impetus.
Recently declassified records of U.S.-U.K. meetings during 1962 to discuss the possibilities of putting pressure on Israel to accept inspections of Dimona by the International Atomic Energy Agency. While State Department officials did not believe that pressure would work, they agreed that “IAEA controls should be our objective.” In the meantime, “interim ad hoc inspections” were necessary to satisfy ourselves and the world-at-large as to Israel’s intentions.”
An assessment of the second AEC visit to the Dimona site in September 1962. After weeks of diplomatic pressure by the Kennedy administration for a second visit, two AEC scientists who had inspected the U.S.-supplied Soreq reactor were “spontaneously” invited for a [tk: Bill, 40 or 45 minutes? All other references are to 40.] 45-minute tour to Dimona, while on their way back from an excursion to the Dead Sea. They had no time to see the complete installation, but they left the site with the impression that Dimona was a research reactor, not a production reactor. CIA and State Department officials were skeptical about the circumstances, unable to determine whether the spontaneous invitation was a treat or a trick.
So Kennedy was pissing off the Israeli's, by not agreeing to their nuclear proliferation.....maybe MOSSAD had something to do with his assasination?
more on this here: https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-...bout-nuclear-weapons-potential-john-f-kennedy
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M
moose eater
They got something else for that $7 trillion; they got perpetual recruitment slogans and banners for an unending supply of Jihadists and rebels in the uprisings and backlash, responding to the incessant destruction brought to (how may countries), including massive 'collateral damage.'
And I wonder if that $7 trillion includes the side money paid in cash (USD) to what amounted to unemployed opium warlords, turned mercenary support for the U.S. invasion, like the $73 million that was reported to have been initially paid to the 'Northern Alliance' at the outset of the actions in Afghanistan, who'd had their poppy fields previously shut down by the Taliban?
To quote Elmer Fud, "Oh da' cwooked web we weave, when we pwactice to deceive..."
M
moose eater
Coming from a mostly-positive guy like yourself, Gry, I'd say that's an accurate appraisal. It carries subtle memories ever so similar to the CIA-Hmong (and others) relationships in S.E. Asia, the relationship with the Mujahedeen (to a lesser degree), and the U.S.-Contra relationship in Central America.... and later, other groups of local mercs, and so forth, down that way during Reagan's Administration.
It's like the folks who pull the strings have like ONE pair of pliers in their tool box.. And they're rusty, bent, and no longer adjustable.
If I watched a mechanic perpetually use the wrong tools, on parts of an automobile that weren't what had been specified as needing fixed, I'd probably quit going to -that- mechanic... but maybe that's just me...
Coming from a mostly-positive guy like yourself, Gry, I'd say that's an accurate appraisal. It carries subtle memories ever so similar to the CIA-Hmong (and others) relationships in S.E. Asia, the relationship with the Mujahedeen (to a lesser degree), and the U.S.-Contra relationship in Central America.... and later, other groups of local mercs, and so forth, down that way during Reagan's Administration.
It's like the folks who pull the strings have like ONE pair of pliers in their tool box.. And they're rusty, bent, and no longer adjustable.
If I watched a mechanic perpetually use the wrong tools, on parts of an automobile that weren't what had been specified as needing fixed, I'd probably quit going to -that- mechanic... but maybe that's just me...
That ‘tool’ is always arming ‘moderate’ rebels. Iran contra, fast and furious, Benghazi... all had the same end result. Dead Americans, rich politicians and a situation worse than it started
M
moose eater
... and trading questionable favors with many of them.
Only to find one day that the pit bull brought home for protection has rabies, and has bitten a family member.
Never take home a dog you can't effectively control, and that doesn't match your needs.. It just gets ugly from there. For the dog and the owner.
Only to find one day that the pit bull brought home for protection has rabies, and has bitten a family member.
Never take home a dog you can't effectively control, and that doesn't match your needs.. It just gets ugly from there. For the dog and the owner.
regarding the strikes on Syria on the morning of the 14th April...
i know some of you won't even watch it as it's Russian state press conference, but he mentions a few interesting points.
i already listened to the US generals tell me that every missile hit it's target without fail, so i also want to listen to what the other side has to say. i find it helps to expose the obvious bs in many cases, even if it's impossible to know who is telling the truth, or if either generals are telling the complete truth about this attack.
[YOUTUBEIF]M1ipoQXuVvQ[/YOUTUBEIF]
i know some of you won't even watch it as it's Russian state press conference, but he mentions a few interesting points.
i already listened to the US generals tell me that every missile hit it's target without fail, so i also want to listen to what the other side has to say. i find it helps to expose the obvious bs in many cases, even if it's impossible to know who is telling the truth, or if either generals are telling the complete truth about this attack.
[YOUTUBEIF]M1ipoQXuVvQ[/YOUTUBEIF]
Careful. propaganda goes both ways.
It was illegal to propagandize the American people, but Obama got rid of that law.......
You sound like a nut.
Folks, we are here, living in a new age where right is wrong, male is female, satanists are cool and the only people who make any sense, sound nuts
So your complimenting me?
TychoMonolyth
Boreal Curing
Source?
https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/1...an-spreads-government-made-news-to-americans/
https://www.businessinsider.com/ndaa-legalizes-propaganda-2012-5
http://www.collective-evolution.com...nti-propaganda-bill-that-harms-press-freedom/
There is a few. I can't find more if you don't like the sources.
https://www.businessinsider.com/ndaa-legalizes-propaganda-2012-5
http://www.collective-evolution.com...nti-propaganda-bill-that-harms-press-freedom/
There is a few. I can't find more if you don't like the sources.
M
moose eater
The 1946 Anti-Propaganda Law(s) were put in place after WWII to prevent U.S. tax dollars going to lie to us with our own money.
That law was, in part, the basis of the complaint filed by Ron Paul with the GAO (??) re. ONDCP and DEA using tax $ to fib about the war on drugs, and specifically the war on reefer, as requested by Rob Kampia of Marijuana Policy Project, over a decade ago. Maybe more by now?
The GAO had, in my opinion, traditionally been a source of relative balance in holding various offices accountable, and I was a bit disappointed, dismayed, and shocked when Ted what's-his-name (a prominent name in wrangling over the USA PATRIOT ACT), I believe a Solicitor General (?) for the GAO took a 'dive' in the Ron Paul/Kampia complaint, and determined, more or less, that the DEA and ONDCP were charged with reducing illicit drug activity and use in the U.S., and the GAO was not about to start defining for them how they achieved that. (Close to a quote, but call it paraphrasing).
It was that determination that the end of anything balanced was painted on the wall. Deceit had been fully approved, accountability had its remaining section of tail tossed in the trash (its body was already in the can), and the Govvy could bullshit us with impunity, rather than even MAYBE being held accountable for it, other than in the courts of public opinion.
The 'Polymer Curtain' was given legitimacy by the GAO. We were screwed in a formal manner from that point on, in my opinion.
That law was, in part, the basis of the complaint filed by Ron Paul with the GAO (??) re. ONDCP and DEA using tax $ to fib about the war on drugs, and specifically the war on reefer, as requested by Rob Kampia of Marijuana Policy Project, over a decade ago. Maybe more by now?
The GAO had, in my opinion, traditionally been a source of relative balance in holding various offices accountable, and I was a bit disappointed, dismayed, and shocked when Ted what's-his-name (a prominent name in wrangling over the USA PATRIOT ACT), I believe a Solicitor General (?) for the GAO took a 'dive' in the Ron Paul/Kampia complaint, and determined, more or less, that the DEA and ONDCP were charged with reducing illicit drug activity and use in the U.S., and the GAO was not about to start defining for them how they achieved that. (Close to a quote, but call it paraphrasing).
It was that determination that the end of anything balanced was painted on the wall. Deceit had been fully approved, accountability had its remaining section of tail tossed in the trash (its body was already in the can), and the Govvy could bullshit us with impunity, rather than even MAYBE being held accountable for it, other than in the courts of public opinion.
The 'Polymer Curtain' was given legitimacy by the GAO. We were screwed in a formal manner from that point on, in my opinion.
nudge, nudge, nudge... gotta push back on these lying bastards! if you have to lie to people to get them to go along with you, you are WRONG, regardless of how "noble" you might consider your goal.
M
moose eater
I believe the GAO Solicitor General's name in the Ron Paul/Rob Kampia complaint re. ONDCP and DEA violating the Anti-Propaganda Law(s) was Theodore Olsen. . . Though I could be wrong. But I think it's another time when a name I blanked on earlier, popped into my mind much later, while doing something -totally- unrelated; in this case, drinking a beer, and talking with my wife. Whereupon, in the midst of my wife telling me about a very important dynamic in another setting, I pop out with "Theodore Olsen!!" just to demonstrate how carefully I'm listening.. Oooops...
troutman
Seed Whore
This could be another reason why Isreal is attacking also.
Syrian goats are invading Isreal and causing environmental damage.
https://tribune.com.pk/story/1565720/3-black-goat-causing-environmental-damage-thrive-israel/
Syrian goats are invading Isreal and causing environmental damage.
Anti-goat police.
https://tribune.com.pk/story/1565720/3-black-goat-causing-environmental-damage-thrive-israel/
