Trump thread part 2 (Or anything else we want to talk about that's ridiculous in politics today)

[armedoldhippy]

Okay I guess I didn't word that properly. Maybe I should have said maybe we'll finally get a government more reflective of the age of the population that will have to deal with the fallout of the decisions being made now.

i'm not voting for any seven year olds. they, and THEIR children will be dealing with the fallout from our grandparents generation as well as our parents & ours. probably a world-wide recession/depression & a couple of pandemics in there, as well as possibly the Last War...it sucks for them. we are still dealing with the aftermath of the Civil War (hint-it aint over) and Lincolns assassination, WW1 and WW2, Korea etc etc etc. the past is not past, it's not EVER going to be "over"... sorry to be such a buzz-kill this early in the morning. i'm not normally this depressing until after i eat dinner & watch the evening news... now, where did that joint i rolled a while ago get to ?

 

[armedoldhippy]

fuck, double post. sorry...

 

[HempKat]

i'm not voting for any seven year olds. they, and THEIR children will be dealing with the fallout from our grandparents generation as well as our parents & ours. probably a world-wide recession/depression & a couple of pandemics in there, as well as possibly the Last War...it sucks for them. we are still dealing with the aftermath of the Civil War (hint-it aint over) and Lincolns assassination, WW1 and WW2, Korea etc etc etc. the past is not past, it's not EVER going to be "over"... sorry to be such a buzz-kill this early in the morning. i'm not normally this depressing until after i eat dinner & watch the evening news... now, where did that joint i rolled a while ago get to ?

I get what you're saying and you are right, in many ways we are still dealing with the aftermath of the distant past. Now I'm not suggesting that we elect 7 year olds that would obviously be riddiculous. What I'm thinking about though when I say what I said is things like making cuts to Social Security or Medicare. Whenever you hear a politician talk about such things the first thing they do is make it clear that what they propose won't effect people currently getting those benefits or who are due to get them in the next few years. Which means people who are working but still decades from benefiting from those programs are the ones who will be affected. They'll have to work even longer before they qualify and they will likely have to pay in more at higher rates. People like myself or yourself are either already getting these benefits or soon will and so when they propose what they propose we're like, "sure, go ahead, change whatever you want just so long as I keep getting what I get now or that I will soon be able to get." Another good example is climate change. Those of us in our 60's or older will likely die before the worst of what is coming hits if we don't do something now. Sure we'll still experience some of the issues such as more extreme weather events but few if any of us will be facing things like having to relocate whole cities because the ones in their current location will be under water. For most of those in our age bracket we'll still be able to buy and use gas powered cars if we choose to. People currently in their 20's, 30's or 40's though probably won't have that luxury by the time they reach our age. So it just doesn't seem fair that they are being represented by people who are so old they'll never have to deal with the results of the choices being made now. It just seems fair that they should be represented by those who will have as much skin in the game as they do. If being a politician who is in their 70's or 80's meant they make smarter decisions because they've been around longer and have aquired more knowledge then it wouldn't be an issue so much. Unfortunately that's not how it plays out. More often that knowledge and experience shows up as being better able to manipulate the system to their own benefit rather then the benefit of the people they represent.

 

[audiohi]

Joe had classified docs he wasn't suppose to have. They were off site and out of his possession. The people who had possession are connected to the CCP. Joe was not President at the time and should not be taking classified material offsite.

Legally the National Archives is suppose to have possession. Wonder what they are hiding?

lol

Classified documents found at Pence’s Indiana home​

https://thehill.com/homenews/admini...ified-documents-found-at-pences-indiana-home/

The boxes were not in a secure area, but they were taped up and were not believed to have been opened since they were packed, according to Pence’s attorney.

 

[armedoldhippy]

working but still decades from benefiting from those programs are the ones who will be affected.
experience shows up as being better able to manipulate the system to their own benefit rather then the benefit of the people they represent.

agree wholeheartedly. i don't know HOW that SS & Medicare/Medicaid could be efficiently privatized, but that is what will have to be done "if" some way isn't found to keep politicians FROM BOTH PARTIES from writing IOUs to the accounts & using the money for "shiny stuff" we do not need. if we do NEED it, then they need to raise taxes to pay for it, or say "fuck, we can't afford that!" one or the other.

 

[GOT_BUD?]

agree wholeheartedly. i don't know HOW that SS & Medicare/Medicaid could be efficiently privatized, but that is what will have to be done "if" some way isn't found to keep politicians FROM BOTH PARTIES from writing IOUs to the accounts & using the money for "shiny stuff" we do not need. if we do NEED it, then they need to raise taxes to pay for it, or say "fuck, we can't afford that!" one or the other.

A good way to solve that issue is to end the cap of $160,000. It's fucking ridiculous that someone making 160 thou a year pays as much as someone making a million.

 

[armedoldhippy]

"taped up but not believed to have been opened" but "not in a secure area". well, i'm relieved that he thinks no one got into them, pulled shit out & taped the boxes back shut. isn't this how everyone keeps their highly sensitive top-secret documents ? monkeys fucking footballs, lol...

 

[armedoldhippy]

A good way to solve that issue is to end the cap of $160,000. It's fucking ridiculous that someone making 160 thou a year pays as much as someone making a million.

agree, and there needs to be a cap on how much you can have personally but still get to draw. childless folks pay taxes to pay for for schools, there is no logical/moral reason that rich people should get to draw Social Security either. it is for the good of the society which we all live in.

 

[GOT_BUD?]

I'll say the same thing about Pence that I said about Biden.

They are most likely documents that at the time were classified but are now worthless, like travel itineraries and personnel changes.

The sheer amount of things labelled classified in the Federal Government borders on ridiculous.

Also, Pence and Biden both used their lawyers to return classified documents, not try to keep them.

 

[armedoldhippy]

They are most likely documents that at the time were classified but are now worthless

they can "classify" something just out of fear of being embarrassed in the future. nothing worse than having proof of your ignorance quoted and waved in your face in front of live cameras...

 

[armedoldhippy]

Also, Pence and Biden both used their lawyers to return classified documents, not try to keep them.

"tell them that's all there is. the rest are mine..."

 

[HempKat]

agree wholeheartedly. i don't know HOW that SS & Medicare/Medicaid could be efficiently privatized, but that is what will have to be done "if" some way isn't found to keep politicians FROM BOTH PARTIES from writing IOUs to the accounts & using the money for "shiny stuff" we do not need. if we do NEED it, then they need to raise taxes to pay for it, or say "fuck, we can't afford that!" one or the other.

Or another way to fix Social Security and Medicare and still be able to spend money on shiney stuff we don't need is to start passing legislation that raises wages to a living wage rather then a starvation wage, so that people will be more willing to have children because they can afford them. Pass legislation that makes it easier for people to go to work by helping with day care for their kids or that provides protections for when a couple gets a newborn like maternity leave and Family leave. So they don't lose their jobs while dealing with an event that just increased their need for a reliable income. Also, If you really want to protect Social Security and Medicare once it's fixed, pass legislation that prevents politicians from being able to rob the trust fund going forward.

The biggest problem Social Security faces right now is that there are more people claiming benefits then there are people paying into the system. When it was created it was projected that we would keep growing and doing better into the future, that the American dream would thrive and become available to more people. That hasn't been happening though because politicians have been doing more to benefit corporations and the wealthy then they have the average citizen. Such that wages and salaries have been stagnent for decades while the cost of living has continued to rise. If you get more people earning decent incomes and better able to raise families then you get more tax revenue and more workers and more money to support Social Security and Medicare.

 

[HempKat]

A good way to solve that issue is to end the cap of $160,000. It's fucking ridiculous that someone making 160 thou a year pays as much as someone making a million.

Yeah or a different way to tackle the same problem is means test the ability to collect benefits. If you get enough to live comfortably off of money from retirement plans, IRAs, etc, then you don't get Social Security too.

 

[HempKat]

The scrutiny is in the wrong place on this Trump, Biden, Pence document thing. I saw an interview recently where whoever was doing the interview (I don't remember who it was) was speaking with former Speaker of the House Paul Ryan. Now obviously the interview was set up mainly to get his thoughts on all the drama with the McCarthy struggle to get to be Speaker but they also took advantage of the situation to ask how classified documents were handled when he was speaker. His answer was that he either had someone from whatever intelligence agency was reponsible for the documents bring it to him with the whole briefcase handcuffed to the wrist bit, who then stayed there with him while he read and needed the document, then when finished it went back into the briefcase and back to where it was stored. The other option was that Speaker Ryan would go to a SCIF where the classified documents would be made available to him but not allowed to leave.

If that's really how it was for everyone then I don't see how we keep having classified documents being taken on purpose or accidentally packed away in boxes without anyone noticing until months later if ever. The problem in my opinion is in how this information is being made available to the people ending up with these documents. Our most valuable and sensitive national security secrets should never be left up to the integrity of politicians

 

[buzzmobile]

"tell them that's all there is. the rest are mine..."

 

[Three Berries]

lol

Classified documents found at Pence’s Indiana home​

https://thehill.com/homenews/admini...ified-documents-found-at-pences-indiana-home/

And?????

How many ex politicos are searching through their houses and offices right now?

IMHO Trump set them all up with the Maralago situation. He knew Obama and Biden had hidden docs on their malfeasance, Trump had a SOP that anything leaving the building was automatically declassified. Trump issued an EO that is still in effect I think, that does not allow the classifications of evidence to be used to hide a crime.

Biden and Pence should be hiding it as they can't legally posses any classified docs. There is a big difference between the Presidential Records act and the Foreign Espionage Act, the latter is what would rule in a VPs or anyone else not currently president.

The reality of the situation is the National Archives is I believe responsible for the collecting and management of classified Presidential material post office. But they have also deemed themselves the arbiter of what is and is not classified material. Which points back to Trump's SOP. I would guess any living past President and many Presidential libraries probably have classified material in them.

And all the past members of the IC community who still have IC clearance and are talking heads on MSM. You see why Schiff and Swallwell are so pouty as they lost access to new info......

Obama's admiration was rife with corruption and most was done off US Gov servers, hence the Gmail use. Not tied to FOIA request. The white hats have all the Gmail messages. Just have to have a Google Files reveal to make it legal. Then on to FaceBook et al.

Sometimes you just have to show the people.

 

[Zeez]

IMHO Trump set them all up with the Maralago situation. He knew Obama and Biden had hidden docs on their malfeasance, Trump had a SOP that anything leaving the building was automatically declassified. Trump issued an EO that is still in effect I think, that does not allow the classifications of evidence to be used to hide a crime.

This was his bullshit story after the fact. There is a procedure for declassification that involves a little more than the emperor waving his magic wand.

 

[HempKat]

And?????

How many ex politicos are searching through their houses and offices right now?

IMHO Trump set them all up with the Maralago situation. He knew Obama and Biden had hidden docs on their malfeasance, Trump had a SOP that anything leaving the building was automatically declassified. Trump issued an EO that is still in effect I think, that does not allow the classifications of evidence to be used to hide a crime.

Biden and Pence should be hiding it as they can't legally posses any classified docs. There is a big difference between the Presidential Records act and the Foreign Espionage Act, the latter is what would rule in a VPs or anyone else not currently president.

The reality of the situation is the National Archives is I believe responsible for the collecting and management of classified Presidential material post office. But they have also deemed themselves the arbiter of what is and is not classified material. Which points back to Trump's SOP. I would guess any living past President and many Presidential libraries probably have classified material in them.

And all the past members of the IC community who still have IC clearance and are talking heads on MSM. You see why Schiff and Swallwell are so pouty as they lost access to new info......

Obama's admiration was rife with corruption and most was done off US Gov servers, hence the Gmail use. Not tied to FOIA request. The white hats have all the Gmail messages. Just have to have a Google Files reveal to make it legal. Then on to FaceBook et al.

Sometimes you just have to show the people.

You keep getting hung up on this issue and yet is totall irrelevent. The potential crimes arising from tese issues has nothing at all to do with whether the documents were classified at the time or not. You can't just have an SOP for these documents when they leave the building one because it doesn't depend on them being classified or not when they leave and two because these documents never should have left the building in the first place. The proper procedure and only legitimate procedure is an authorized agent delivers them for the President or whoever needs to see them and has the appropriate clearence, can see them and that same agent stays there the whole time and then takes the documents with him/her when whoever is looking at them are done. They are not meant to be left there for whoever requested them to review at their leisure. If the person requesting them needs to look at them for a longer period of time then at the end of the day the agent takes them back to where they are held and returns the next day if necessary. It's not like checking a book out of the library. The only other authorized way to access these documents is for the person wanting to see them to go to where they are stored and view them in a SCIF. In that situation the documents remain where the SCIF is when the person requesting them leaves.

As for classifying/declassifying these documents yes the President has the authority to declassify them but there is a process they have to go thru to be declassified that results in a notation added to the document stating they were declassified and by whom they were declassified and on what date. Even if they are legitimately declassified they are still the property of the Federal Government, declassifying them does not make it legal for whoever wants to to then just take them with them and do whatever they want. If you believe anything different you're living in a fantasy world totally ignorant of how classified documents work.

 

[Three Berries]

This was his bullshit story after the fact. There is a procedure for declassification that involves a little more than the emperor waving his magic wand.

The President can declassify anything he wants any time. Getting subordinates to do so is another story. And just because something is declassified doesn't necessarily mean it's then public info because it may be being used in court.

 

[Three Berries]

And Biden is guilty no matter what because he never should have had any of it in his possession.