Trump thread part 2 (Or anything else we want to talk about that's ridiculous in politics today)

[igrowone]

Well theere are several errors in what you're basing your conclusions on thereby increasing the chance that your conclusion will also be in error. First off iwith the Trump situation, the case of his inflating values is only one of the four different matters he's indicted on so to say that's why "they" are upset is incorrect. Also it's not just about him falsely inflating values to secure a loan, that was just part of it, when it came time to pay taxes on those same properties he would find ways to falsely devalue the same properties to either pay less taxes or pay no taxes at all. Now on the surface these might seem like harmless crimes but the aren't. Lending institutions only have a limited amount of money to loan and so when one person fraudulently misrepresents the value of his property to get a bigger loan then he would normally qualify for honestly that means that somewhre along the way someone who may be borrowing in good faith will be unable to get a loan because someone else got more then they were entitled to. With taxes the victims are everyone else who benefits from those taxes, less tax revenues means less money to pay for things that government does for or offers it citizens and so maybe the population as a whole loses out on things they would have benefitted from if the government raised more tax revenue. If the short fall in tax revenue is bad enough then another result is the government charges everyone else higher taxes in order to pay for the things it wants to do or the serviices it wants to offer.

Now as far as the government raising values to increase tax revenue, that's nothing even remotely like what Trump did. I'm not sure how it is in all States or Counties but in the one's Ive lived in the value that is appraised to property for taxes is always significant;y less then the actual value, usually it's about half the real value. So if they do increase the value to raise more taxes it's still going to be a good bit less then if they based it on the true value. In Trump's case when he inflated the value of his properties it was solely for his benefit. When the government raises values to increase tax revenue it's generally speaking for the benefit of everyone under the jurisdiction of that government.

As far as Trump paying off his loans he only did that because he had to if he ever wanted to get a loan in the future Trump has a fairly long history of getting out of financial obligations by declaring bankruptcy. Fortunately for the banks loans aren't one of the debts you can escape by bankruptcy. Trump also has a well established history of not paying people for the goods or services he went to them for, often to the harm of the people he didn't pay, just ask Rudy Giuliani or any of a number of construction companies who had to go out of business when Trump defaulted on what he owed them.

As far as taxing individuals vs corporations while it is true that corporations generally pay higher taxes then individuals because they pay more money the comparisson you're trying to make is false because corporations generally pay at much lower rates then individuals and they have more ways to shield their income then individuals do. For example a company can do all the same business and make the same profits and yet avoid the taxes simply by moving their headquarters to a more tax friendly country. That was the whole basis for Trump reducing the tax rates and giving such a huge tax cut to the wealthy, to give them a reason to move back to the US. Except they still kept their manufacturing where the labor was cheapest so it didn't bring in all the jobs Trump made it sound like his tax cuts would bring.

As far as who is worse, Democrats or Republicans? That's a flawed question because there are good and bad individuals in both parties. That sort of thinking capitalizes off the fact that most people want to vote in a particular party and just not be bothered with thinking about it much until the next election. That's also why politicians make grand promises based on a party platform and yet somehow those promises rarely materialize. Unfortunately until people start paying more attention and holding politicians accountable regardless of their party, these sorts of problems contnue.

All of these issues exist because people tend to only look at things in a superficial way. As the old saying goes, "the devil is in the details" and this is true whether you're talking about the law, the courts, taxes, governments or politicians.

 

[Zeez]

 

[igrowone]

View attachment 18975417

 

[Hiddenjems]

I'm not sure how I feel about the Trump situation. I mean they're essentially upset, saying he inflated the value of his assets in order to secure a loan. That's exactly what the governments did last year when they increased the property taxes across the country by the largest number in history. They've essentially inflated the US economy, by over evaluating the price of real estate assets. Which is exactly what Trump's under fire for right now. They're hypocrites to some degree certainly. To Donalds credit, he did pay the loan off in full. That's more than we can say about the government.

Unless you go back to 1835, the only time the government ever serviced its debt in full.

I don't know what's worse the democrats or republicans. I know in the battle of red vs blue the only corporation to win is the government. That's generally not to the benefit of the citizens. The government would love to subsidize all of our living expenses so companies pay all the taxes. The government generates more revenue taxing income in higher tax brackets. So the less employees make the more corporations make, the more a corporation makes the more tax collected by the largest corporation of them all. Subsidized living and care is subpar at best and certainly not worth the cost.

Who am I to complain right? They made me a lot of money with their over inflated asset value now I'm loaded.

It looks like they’ll get trump on at least the document charge. But, the fraud case is fraudulent.

If I want to finance new equipment for my business, I call up my bank. I say I need x dollars and my business is worth y. Their guy comes over and says, “we think it’s worth less than that so you need a down payment on the equipment”. Nobody commited fraud.

Do you think a bank loaned trump hundreds of millions on his word? Hell no. They sent people out to inspect the collateral, and loaned money accordingly.

 

[blazeoneup]

Well theere are several errors in what you're basing your conclusions on thereby increasing the chance that your conclusion will also be in error. First off iwith the Trump situation, the case of his inflating values is only one of the four different matters he's indicted on so to say that's why "they" are upset is incorrect. Also it's not just about him falsely inflating values to secure a loan, that was just part of it, when it came time to pay taxes on those same properties he would find ways to falsely devalue the same properties to either pay less taxes or pay no taxes at all. Now on the surface these might seem like harmless crimes but the aren't. Lending institutions only have a limited amount of money to loan and so when one person fraudulently misrepresents the value of his property to get a bigger loan then he would normally qualify for honestly that means that somewhre along the way someone who may be borrowing in good faith will be unable to get a loan because someone else got more then they were entitled to. With taxes the victims are everyone else who benefits from those taxes, less tax revenues means less money to pay for things that government does for or offers it citizens and so maybe the population as a whole loses out on things they would have benefitted from if the government raised more tax revenue. If the short fall in tax revenue is bad enough then another result is the government charges everyone else higher taxes in order to pay for the things it wants to do or the serviices it wants to offer.

Now as far as the government raising values to increase tax revenue, that's nothing even remotely like what Trump did. I'm not sure how it is in all States or Counties but in the one's Ive lived in the value that is appraised to property for taxes is always significant;y less then the actual value, usually it's about half the real value. So if they do increase the value to raise more taxes it's still going to be a good bit less then if they based it on the true value. In Trump's case when he inflated the value of his properties it was solely for his benefit. When the government raises values to increase tax revenue it's generally speaking for the benefit of everyone under the jurisdiction of that government.

As far as Trump paying off his loans he only did that because he had to if he ever wanted to get a loan in the future Trump has a fairly long history of getting out of financial obligations by declaring bankruptcy. Fortunately for the banks loans aren't one of the debts you can escape by bankruptcy. Trump also has a well established history of not paying people for the goods or services he went to them for, often to the harm of the people he didn't pay, just ask Rudy Giuliani or any of a number of construction companies who had to go out of business when Trump defaulted on what he owed them.

As far as taxing individuals vs corporations while it is true that corporations generally pay higher taxes then individuals because they pay more money the comparisson you're trying to make is false because corporations generally pay at much lower rates then individuals and they have more ways to shield their income then individuals do. For example a company can do all the same business and make the same profits and yet avoid the taxes simply by moving their headquarters to a more tax friendly country. That was the whole basis for Trump reducing the tax rates and giving such a huge tax cut to the wealthy, to give them a reason to move back to the US. Except they still kept their manufacturing where the labor was cheapest so it didn't bring in all the jobs Trump made it sound like his tax cuts would bring.

As far as who is worse, Democrats or Republicans? That's a flawed question because there are good and bad individuals in both parties. That sort of thinking capitalizes off the fact that most people want to vote in a particular party and just not be bothered with thinking about it much until the next election. That's also why politicians make grand promises based on a party platform and yet somehow those promises rarely materialize. Unfortunately until people start paying more attention and holding politicians accountable regardless of their party, these sorts of problems contnue.

All of these issues exist because people tend to only look at things in a superficial way. As the old saying goes, "the devil is in the details" and this is true whether you're talking about the law, the courts, taxes, governments or politicians.

The lawsuit alleges that from 2011 to 2021, Donald Trump and his organization created more than 200 false valuations to inflate his net worth by billions of dollars with the goal of getting better business, insurance and banking deals.

I tell you again, the government itself is guilty of the exact same practice and you say, yes but it's different they're the government and because they speak for all, it's acceptable. Yet they don't speak for the property owners that are paying for all this subsidized living. Hows that impact renters? You know, the impoverished who can't afford a downpayment or lack credit to get financing. Do you realize the impact of the government over evaluating tenative value of real estate assets? Tenative value impacts all tenants owners and renters alike.

Can you define what you mean by benefits us all? If you mean 140% increased property taxes and large rent hikes than I would agree with you. I however see the impact of the increased property tax, which results in rent hikes, which increases the cost of living for everyone, so the only ones benefiting from said works are the war mongerers fueling their wars. The corrupt democrats and republicans and their families earned a nice severance package. The rest of us just paid for it.

Did you know many peoples property tax went up more during 2022-2024 than 1776-2022 combined? You somehow find this acceptable. Yes the tenative value tends to be much less, than the mean value however taxes are based on tenative value. The tenative value of my properties jumped 130%-150% resulting in my tax liabilities also going up by the same value. Y

In terms of individuals vs corporate. Yes naturally corporations use the tax laws and any loopholes they can to avoid tax liabilities. Yet that's not what we are discussing. We are discussing the reason why it's beneficial for government to keep wages lower for employees and how that benefits the government not the corporation. A corporation benefits more from happy employees who provide excellent customer service bringing repeat business. Unhappy employees isn't good for business.

I never once stated that all democrats and republicans are bad. I stated the parties are corrupted which you affirmed when you made the statement they're not all bad. I never said they were I said the parties as a whole are contaminated and corrupted by evil doers.

I don't personally support national socialism. So I don't tend to jump through hoola hoops to autocorrect the governments errors by ignoring them.

 

[audiohi]

It looks like they’ll get trump on at least the document charge. But, the fraud case is fraudulent.

If I want to finance new equipment for my business, I call up my bank. I say I need x dollars and my business is worth y. Their guy comes over and says, “we think it’s worth less than that so you need a down payment on the equipment”. Nobody commited fraud.

Do you think a bank loaned trump hundreds of millions on his word? Hell no. They sent people out to inspect the collateral, and loaned money accordingly.

they did it on Russia's word.

they sent Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy's son to "verify" and ease concerns

remember kennedy's resignation when he was shocked by some comment trump made?

 

[Hiddenjems]

they did it on Russia's word.

they sent Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy's son to "verify" and ease concerns

remember kennedy's resignation when he was shocked by some comment trump made?

Maybe I’m forgetting my tinfoil hat? A guy went to jail for making up Russia gate.

Why can’t trump just be a slimy New York real estate guy?

With trump the truth is bad enough. Yet people feed his base with phony allegations. It’s like the boy that cried wolf.

 

[audiohi]

Maybe I’m forgetting my tinfoil hat? A guy went to jail for making up Russia gate.

Why can’t trump just be a slimy New York real estate guy?

With trump the truth is bad enough. Yet people feed his base with phony allegations. It’s like the boy that cried wolf.

who went to jail for making up russia gate?


trump is a slimy New York real estate guy.

who got his loans based on lies from Justice Kennedy's son and Deutsche Bank. The same Deutsche bank that was repeatedly caught laundering Russian money.

Justice Kennedy. The guy that resigned when trump came to office.

All truth.

 

[audiohi]

The lawsuit alleges that from 2011 to 2021, Donald Trump and his organization created more than 200 false valuations to inflate his net worth by billions of dollars with the goal of getting better business, insurance and banking deals.

I tell you again, the government itself is guilty of the exact same practice and you say, yes but it's different they're the government and because they speak for all, it's acceptable. Yet they don't speak for the property owners that are paying for all this subsidized living. Hows that impact renters? You know, the impoverished who can't afford a downpayment or lack credit to get financing. Do you realize the impact of the government over evaluating tenative value of real estate assets? Tenative value impacts all tenants owners and renters alike.

Can you define what you mean by benefits us all? If you mean 140% increased property taxes and large rent hikes than I would agree with you. I however see the impact of the increased property tax, which results in rent hikes, which increases the cost of living for everyone, so the only ones benefiting from said works are the war mongerers fueling their wars. The corrupt democrats and republicans and their families earned a nice severance package. The rest of us just paid for it.

Did you know many peoples property tax went up more during 2022-2024 than 1776-2022 combined? You somehow find this acceptable. Yes the tenative value tends to be much less, than the mean value however taxes are based on tenative value. The tenative value of my properties jumped 130%-150% resulting in my tax liabilities also going up by the same value. Y

In terms of individuals vs corporate. Yes naturally corporations use the tax laws and any loopholes they can to avoid tax liabilities. Yet that's not what we are discussing. We are discussing the reason why it's beneficial for government to keep wages lower for employees and how that benefits the government not the corporation. A corporation benefits more from happy employees who provide excellent customer service bringing repeat business. Unhappy employees isn't good for business.

I never once stated that all democrats and republicans are bad. I stated the parties are corrupted which you affirmed when you made the statement they're not all bad. I never said they were I said the parties as a whole are contaminated and corrupted by evil doers.

I don't personally support national socialism. So I don't tend to jump through hoola hoops to autocorrect the governments errors by ignoring them.

you've got a really weird mix of federal, state, and local jurisdiction going on with a very healthy portion of capitalism mixed into your comment.

 

[Zeez]

who went to jail for making up russia gate?


trump is a slimy New York real estate guy.

who got his loans based on lies from Justice Kennedy's son and Deutsche Bank. The same Deutsche bank that was repeatedly caught laundering Russian money.

Justice Kennedy. The guy that resigned when trump came to office.

All truth.

 

[audiohi]

Yet they don't speak for the property owners that are paying for all this subsidized living. Hows that impact renters? You know, the impoverished who can't afford a downpayment or lack credit to get financing. Do you realize the impact of the government over evaluating tenative value of real estate assets? Tenative value impacts all tenants owners and renters alike.

Can you define what you mean by benefits us all? If you mean 140% increased property taxes and large rent hikes than I would agree with you. I however see the impact of the increased property tax, which results in rent hikes, which increases the cost of living for everyone, so the only ones benefiting from said works are the war mongerers fueling their wars. The corrupt democrats and republicans and their families earned a nice severance package. The rest of us just paid for it.

you've got a really weird mix of federal, state, and local jurisdiction going on with a very healthy portion of capitalism mixed into your comment.

Who am I to complain right? They made me a lot of money with their over inflated asset value now I'm loaded.

but who are you to complain...

 

[igrowone]

they did it on Russia's word.

they sent Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy's son to "verify" and ease concerns

remember kennedy's resignation when he was shocked by some comment trump made?

 

[Zeez]

According to an interview with Cohen, Chump is liable for city, state and capitol gains taxes that could total 40% on property he sells in NY. Add to that the fact that these properties are mortgaged and ol' Chump doesn't walk away with jack after a sale. Add to that the fact that these would be distress sales from a seller with a shady business background and the proceeds dip even lower. The word is that over 40 insurance companies have declined on posting a $500M bond.

BINO = BILLIONAIRE IN NAME ONLY

 

[HempKat]

It looks like they’ll get trump on at least the document charge. But, the fraud case is fraudulent.

If I want to finance new equipment for my business, I call up my bank. I say I need x dollars and my business is worth y. Their guy comes over and says, “we think it’s worth less than that so you need a down payment on the equipment”. Nobody commited fraud.

Do you think a bank loaned trump hundreds of millions on his word? Hell no. They sent people out to inspect the collateral, and loaned money accordingly.

You should actually watch the triall before you speak on it, the banks admitted that they trusted Trump's cooked valuations and didn't actually check on them. Now granted that's Their fault and not Trump's but it's still fraud on Trump's part because he got loans that he wouldn't have gotten if he were honest or if the banks did their due dilligence. The fact that they just took Trump's word for the values doesn't mean he didn't commit fraud though. At best it means they still managed to get enough out of the deal that they were willing to go ahead with it. Unfortunately there are no laws by which banks can be sued for taking risks they wouldn't normally take and be willing to make less money then if they treated Trump like every other borrower.

You obviously buy into the arguement that Trump makes which is that because the banks made money and Trump paid the loans on time there were no victims and therefore no crime. The problem though is the banks were never the ones said to be the victims. The victims were all the borrowers who didn't get the same sweet deal that Trump got or that didn't get loans at all because Trump borrowed more then he should have been able too and thereby caused the banks to reach their limits on loans that year sooner then they should have.

You also completely ignore that for those same properties Trump devalued the properties at tax time so he wouldn't have to pay the full amount of taxes he should have based on the value he claimed when he got the loans.

 

[HempKat]

The lawsuit alleges that from 2011 to 2021, Donald Trump and his organization created more than 200 false valuations to inflate his net worth by billions of dollars with the goal of getting better business, insurance and banking deals.

I tell you again, the government itself is guilty of the exact same practice and you say, yes but it's different they're the government and because they speak for all, it's acceptable. Yet they don't speak for the property owners that are paying for all this subsidized living. Hows that impact renters? You know, the impoverished who can't afford a downpayment or lack credit to get financing. Do you realize the impact of the government over evaluating tenative value of real estate assets? Tenative value impacts all tenants owners and renters alike.

Can you define what you mean by benefits us all? If you mean 140% increased property taxes and large rent hikes than I would agree with you. I however see the impact of the increased property tax, which results in rent hikes, which increases the cost of living for everyone, so the only ones benefiting from said works are the war mongerers fueling their wars. The corrupt democrats and republicans and their families earned a nice severance package. The rest of us just paid for it.

Did you know many peoples property tax went up more during 2022-2024 than 1776-2022 combined? You somehow find this acceptable. Yes the tenative value tends to be much less, than the mean value however taxes are based on tenative value. The tenative value of my properties jumped 130%-150% resulting in my tax liabilities also going up by the same value. Y

In terms of individuals vs corporate. Yes naturally corporations use the tax laws and any loopholes they can to avoid tax liabilities. Yet that's not what we are discussing. We are discussing the reason why it's beneficial for government to keep wages lower for employees and how that benefits the government not the corporation. A corporation benefits more from happy employees who provide excellent customer service bringing repeat business. Unhappy employees isn't good for business.

I never once stated that all democrats and republicans are bad. I stated the parties are corrupted which you affirmed when you made the statement they're not all bad. I never said they were I said the parties as a whole are contaminated and corrupted by evil doers.

I don't personally support national socialism. So I don't tend to jump through hoola hoops to autocorrect the governments errors by ignoring them.

Look I'm not going to get in on an ever running back and forth with you where you deliberately twist the meaning of what I said or what actually happened to make it fit the narrative you want to run in your mind. I can tell that you're smart enough to understand exactly what I said and/or what actually happened in the examples you're talking about. So clearly you're closed to honest debate and I'm not going to waste my time getting you to accept things that you've demonstrated that you're unwilling to accept because it doesn't fit your world view. Just like you're not going to get me to change my mind by you basically just repeating ad nauseam the same distortions of reality that you started with.

 

[HempKat]

BINO = BILLIONAIRE IN NAME ONLY

 

[GOT_BUD?]

You should actually watch the triall before you speak on it, the banks admitted that they trusted Trump's cooked valuations and didn't actually check on them. Now granted that's Their fault and not Trump's but it's still fraud on Trump's part because he got loans that he wouldn't have gotten if he were honest or if the banks did their due dilligence. The fact that they just took Trump's word for the values doesn't mean he didn't commit fraud though. At best it means they still managed to get enough out of the deal that they were willing to go ahead with it. Unfortunately there are no laws by which banks can be sued for taking risks they wouldn't normally take and be willing to make less money then if they treated Trump like every other borrower.

You obviously buy into the arguement that Trump makes which is that because the banks made money and Trump paid the loans on time there were no victims and therefore no crime. The problem though is the banks were never the ones said to be the victims. The victims were all the borrowers who didn't get the same sweet deal that Trump got or that didn't get loans at all because Trump borrowed more then he should have been able too and thereby caused the banks to reach their limits on loans that year sooner then they should have.

You also completely ignore that for those same properties Trump devalued the properties at tax time so he wouldn't have to pay the full amount of taxes he should have based on the value he claimed when he got the loans.

That's where Don Jr. and Eric come in. They were the compliance officers for Trumpco. It was their jobs to ensure that the valuations were real and on the up and up. That's all a compliance officer is supposed to do is be truthful with lenders on the value of your assets.

If every bank did their true due diligence, business would grind to a slow crawl.

Trust was broken and there needs to be compensation. That's what the lawsuit is about.

 

[Zeez]

 

[HempKat]

That's where Don Jr. and Eric come in. They were the compliance officers for Trumpco. It was their jobs to ensure that the valuations were real and on the up and up. That's all a compliance officer is supposed to do is be truthful with lenders on the value of your assets.

If every bank did their true due diligence, business would grind to a slow crawl.

Trust was broken and there needs to be compensation. That's what the lawsuit is about.

Yet amazingly when put on the stand both acted like they had no knowledge of terms and/or documents any actual compliance officer would have full knowledge of and in Eric's case he continued to play dumb even after being shown where he signed off on such documents. So either they were COINOs (Compliance Officers In Name Only), liars or both. Okay in Eric's case maybe he is just that stupid?

 

[Zeez]

Letitia James is allowed to start the process of seizing Chumps properties starting Monday.