True Terpenes VISCOSITY extract liquifier LAB TESTS: Mineral oil but no terps!!

[Mr D]

This one appears to be from a nicotine cart.

A Kansas woman who used an e-cigarette is the sixth person to die of a severe lung illness that doctors say is tied to vaping.

The 50-year-old patient started using an e-cigarette one week prior to her death, and while she had some underlying health issues, doctors who treated her say that vaping was the culprit.

Dr. Lee Norman, secretary for the Kansas Department of Health and Environment, told NBC News Tuesday that the patient "had some underlying medical illnesses, but nothing that would have foretold the fact that within a week after starting using e-cigarettes for the first time, she developed full-blown acute respiratory distress syndrome and died."

Doctors cannot say conclusively what links vaping to the mysterious and rapidly progressive lung diseases that have now killed six people in just three weeks, but Norman said he is confident there will be more fatalities.

State and federal health officials have begun investigating both nicotine and THC vaping liquids, hoping to single out one contaminant behind the outbreak of at least 450 similar cases across 33 states. Health officials in New York are focusing on on liquid concentrations of vitamin E, which is poisonous if inhaled. Until officials crack the case, doctors and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention are discouraging people from using e-cigarettes.

Can't rule out a bad batch of PG from China if we see more nicotine cart problems....or maybe it's the cart itself.

 

[ExtractNinja]

EN. I read basically from the top. Thanks for everything.

What are you going to do about the vitamin E situation?

With companies removing their thickeners from their websites, it seems like it's time for a whole new series of tests.

What are your thoughts?

Hi David. i didnt see this post b4 now.

This current vaping issue is being well handled by the cdc and fda from what i can see. They are doing lots of testing. Not so much well handled by some reporters and state agencies though.

my thoughts? I havent looked too far into this issue because im mostly stuck in bed but I would again suggest people read posts by CuriousChemist22 and sirextractalots in this thread: https://future4200.com/t/fake-dank-vapes-warning/33861


Currently there seem to be at least three different illnesses, not just one, and looks like multiple causes, not just one. according to the American Lung Association CMO. The FDA and CDC is also syaing they dont know what it is and no single common factor has been identified. from listening to the fda and cdc last week they were not more worried about vit E acetate than other possible causes.

NY is going after vit E acetae without even finding it as a common factor in their tests. this seems to be more about Gov. Cuomo poll numbers than using good science.

After reading it seems its not at all clear that this is caused by vit E acetate. Some news reports have mentioned how the lung damage looks identical that damage from mineral oil and veg oil.

Now most big time newspapers are shying away from pointing at vit E as the cause. they are now being more responsible and listing to the FDA adn CDC and using good science reporting.

no one knows what the causes are yet. and b/c there are deaths its important to avoid bad science reporting.

 

[ExtractNinja]

EN. I read basically from the top. Thanks for everything.

Great. when are you going to write about this issue with TT? it's been over 8 months now and nothing from you or leafly. When can we expect an article?

I have new testing coming out soon using GO Joe advise and a lab in FL some guy on F4200 suggested. The FL lab specializes in petroleum distillate testing.

what can I do to help with your article about TT lying this whole time and putting mineral oil or something very very similar to mineral oil into the market for vaping? Comitting fraud and ripping people off for years?

also TT sells vape carts on their site next to their other terp and mineral oil products but in there MSDS they say their products are not for vaping.

What are you going to do about the TT mineral oil situation?

 

[ombre]

This one appears to be from a nicotine cart.




Can't rule out a bad batch of PG from China if we see more nicotine cart problems....or maybe it's the cart itself.

People have been pushing the mineral oil so much, I can almost guarantee it's ended up in ecigarettes. Probably fake juuls. It's been advertised as a cleaner ejuice.

Plus she was in bad health, so it's really hard to tell. But I would doubt a bad batch of pg is the culprit when we know for a fact that mineral oil is causing the majority of the problems/deaths. A 50 year old woman in bad health dying is a lot different than a healthy 18 year old.

 

[Anne_Fetamine]

Inhaling oil in general--particularly heated oil--is bad, bad, bad. Maybe a couple are worse than the others or cause problems to show up sooner, but it's looking to me like these are cases of lipoid pneumonia/lung inflammation caused by inhaling oils...be they vitamin E or something else. Definitely a diluent or thickener problem. (Not that some vape carts don't have myriad other issues as well).

It's so cool that this topic showed up on this forum months before the "crisis" started happening! We've got some smart folks around here. Thanks for taking the time & spending the $$$ to expose this problem, OP. This is the kind of content I come here for.

 

[Future4200]

I would really like to hear Future about all these current problems with carts.
And that if he agrees it's that Vitamin E acetate or mineral oil or maybe something else.

First off, vaporizing Vitamin E acetate doesn't seem like a great idea.

Floraplex has some explaining to do, if they even survive this.

But let's clear something up about carts in general. I do not personally use them, but I have no issues with other people doing whatever they want to themselves. I used to make carts for other people until prices of disty dropped too far for me to remain profitable, and honestly I never even considered cutting it to keep in business, I just quit making them. I personally am anti Trade Secrets, really anti Intellectual Property in general when it comes down to it. The idea that a company can legally or morally sell a product and not have to disclose what it is seems dangerous, and in the long run stupid and bad for business. This is something I've told these terp companies from day 1. My first suggestion to TT was to disclose exactly what's in the viscosity.

I am 100% against the government banning things. Prohibition never works, this community should know that, and almost always has alterior motives...

The reason we don't know exactly what's killing or harming people with these carts is because other than it being a cart, there is very little commonality among these cases.

We do know that big Tobacco hates these popup cart makers, they are certainly cutting into margins. And the government has a long history of vilifying cannabis for alterior motives.

I do not have enough evidence to know either way what's happening. What I do know, is that you should buy things you plan on consuming, directly from the person that made/grew them, or someone you trust. This doesn't just go for cannabis, it goes for everything. Half of the deaths in this country are directly related to the shit people put in their bodies, pumped out of highly regulated, industrialized, "safe" sterile factories. Now the legalization and regulation of cannabis has changed it from a plant everyone should grow in their backyard to a greedy corporate clusterfuck, and all of a sudden people are dying from it.

 

[Drewsif]

[LEGAL WEED KILLS] bumperstickers available soon. Black market weed never killed anyone.

Pulmonary fibrosis will be a common one down the road. Watching someone die from that right now. Fun watching someone lose their mind from no oxygen. They can't even hit the bong, drats.

If the resin makes your top and bottom teeth stick together, youre fucking yourself. If it sets off smoke alarms, youre fucking yourself. If it gunks up your sinuses and doesn't squeegee your lungs, youre fucking yourselves. If it smells better than it tastes your fucking yourself.

Winterized, clarity counts, the clear, fruit scrap perfume, numeric terpene hype.. Legalization is the WORST thing to happen to Cannabis in galactic history.

Is tocopherol really gonna take the blame? I don't see any financial benefit from blaming tocopherol. So far the news fuckers are strictly blaming the illicit market and purported home made scammer concoctions that for some God damned unholy reason Americans think is a black market issue, not a capitalist scumbag way of life?

The media keeps lying, telling their viewers that legal Cannabis is tested for contaminants such as tocopherol (which isn't natural vitamin e, its fake vitamin e,not safe for human consumption in ANY form, has been fake and useless for 80 years, that's his fucked our capitalist cocksucker society is, turning complex natural products into isolated molecules & paying off the medical associations for production/profit purposes, Been the standard since any of us been alive, thats why we can't see how fucked we are.

 

[ambertrichome]

Inhaling any kind of oil, is bad news as has already been said.

 

[Mr D]

What I do know, is that you should buy things you plan on consuming, directly from the person that made/grew them, or someone you trust.

Or rely on methods of consumption that have worked for over 10,000 years without a single death.

 

[Gray Wolf]

I actually stopped smoking cannabis because my lungs were rebelling.

In 2007 I built this vaporizer and started vaporizing concentrate. I now use an electric nail of my own design, and after a decade of vaporizing/dabbing, my lungs are in better shape than they were then.


E-Pens have also been around long enough to demonstrate that this sudden rash is episodic, not chronic, so Occum's razor suggest something changed recently.


I'm convinced more will be revealed..............

 

[CannaRed]

I saw Tt posted on Facebook:
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2582173998505500&id=1099469246775990
Down in the comments they go on to say
that they "were actively working toward a patent that will allow us to release the formula for Viscosity".
.

 

[TedNugget]

In possession of the MassTerpenes Servm but not run trail with it as yet. Still not convinced exactly what it is and how it treats the fats, lipids, and waxes in the rosin such that carts don't clog. Really dislike failed experiments that clog carts as removing and loss of material is an unpleasant task.


Have done several more tests doing QWISO and QWET on deep cold frozen cured flower and solvent using dry ice. Winterizing clearly removes junk from the crude. Not decarbing since not for edibles and lack of THCA that needs converting.


First filter is coffee filter which is about 10 micron. Whatman #1 filter works well too; rated around 10 micron as well. Just received some Whatman 597 filters that are specifically designed for use on fat material.


AC (activated charcoal) and DE (diatomaceous earth) filtering not in the workflow as it really needs a vacuum setup, even manual pump for small batch testing.

Yeah I have some servm I won’t touch. MassTerpenes re-did their website and now list the ingredients of servm. They claim it’s Phytol & Bisabolol.
But I’m still not using it. Thankfully I only used a tiny amount of it before all this stuff came out.

I have a number of vials of their Liquefy too that I won’t touch. They took down all the thickener (vitamin E) off their site and most of the Liquefy too. Well, at first they changed the description of their liquefy from “terpene mix” to “diluent mix” and removed any mention of terpenes.

But now there is some liquefy back up on the site. Looking just now There’s still 1 Liquefy listed. It’s a grand daddy flavor and it lists the ingredients. I emailed them a few times asking for the ingredients of the flavors I have and they won’t answer back. I’ve tried asking the question in all different ways and as non-threatening as I could and told them all I was trying to do is find out if the liquefy I have has the same ingredients as the one listed on their site but still no answer. I even sent pictures showing the vials were unopened.

I think it really sucks that they are just ignoring me. Definitely not a place I’d ever do business with again.


I’m not big on vaping anyway but a # of my close friends and family are and I’d like to eventually produce something safe for them.

 

[watts]

Everyone demonized PG when all these terpene companies came on the market. Are people going back to PG now?

 

[hush]

To all of the people who demonize PG and/or claim there's no knowledge of what it does to the lungs... Just thought you all should know that it's been the active propellant in asthma inhalers for decades now. You know that you can Google things you don't know about before making a definitive statement, right?

To my knowledge, the only reason why PG never took off in the cart scene is that it doesn't suspend concentrate very well. It doesn't mix properly.

 

[AgentPothead]

That's completely true, but last time I checked asthma inhalers don't heat anything to 400F before having you inhale the vapor. The theater industry has hard limits on actor exposure to glycol based fogs, because every study they've done shows it is harmful. And that's for a decent sized room, not sucking directly on the fog machine like it's an ambrosia dispenser.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fog_machine#Adverse_health_effects

 

[ambertrichome]

I started making extracts in the mid 70s with the Isomerizer they cme out with It uses grain alcohol.

Ive also been reevaluating smoking anything that been processed with alcohol, and theres no way to get it out 100%, and alcohol, isn't good to inhale either.

Big fad now is to Smoke Alcohol. Its an extreme irritant, and overall can dry the crap out of your lungs.

I think vaping is a risk. Many of these chemicals have not been tested for smoking, and the 1s that have, look like they ae deadly to our lungs. ANY KIND of OIL, is a NO GO. And they put Propylene Glycol in Antifreeze,...... shampoo, and all kinds of shit. Food. Drugs I don't eat any kind of chemicals, and haven't had even 1 SIP of soda since 1978. Why in the world would I want to smoke shit, I wont even eat??? It safe enough to eat, but have they tested smoking it?????

I don't know, but if the weeds good enough 1 big hit should be enough to satisfy most anyone, or get you on your way….. IMHO most weed is weak, and sucks...… Especially a lot of the dispensary stuff. And then one can always make Bubble/Ice Hash.

But YOU, the CONSUMER are being played, and are part of a big experiment.

 

[Ringodoggie]

Looking back, Extract Ninja stated that his tests showed the contents of Viscosity to be 'mineral oil' or some other heavy oil.

I believe someone else said it was not mineral oil but could not identify exactly what it was.

With the discovery that so many of the other dilutants were Vitamin E Acetate, are we, now, to assume that Viscosity was Vitamin E Acetate, also?




.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Looking back, Extract Ninja stated that his tests showed the contents of Viscosity to be 'mineral oil' or some other heavy oil.

I believe someone else said it was not mineral oil but could not identify exactly what it was.

With the discovery that so many of the other dilutants were Vitamin E Acetate, are we, now, to assume that Viscosity was Vitamin E Acetate, also?




.

No, it was a heavy Alkane mixture, not an Alkene, per two Phd's. My results are on page 90.

 

[Ringodoggie]

Thanks for the clarification, GW. Not that it really matters but I was curious. They are using that kid and his brother as scapegoats for the entire episode (so far) when they were probably not 1/100th of the total [national] sales and the real culprit is their supplier (who I am sure, supplied many other small time dealers as well).

If they ever follow the money trail to the top, I was wondering if it would lead to True Terps. At this point, it looks like it will probably lead to the Drew guy.

Thanks again, GW.






.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Thanks for the clarification, GW. Not that it really matters but I was curious. They are using that kid and his brother as scapegoats for the entire episode (so far) when they were probably not 1/100th of the total [national] sales and the real culprit is their supplier (who I am sure, supplied many other small time dealers as well).

If they ever follow the money trail to the top, I was wondering if it would lead to True Terps. At this point, it looks like it will probably lead to the Drew guy.

Thanks again, GW.


.

I suspect the FDA will take more than a cursory look at the various media being used and that although some may not be killing folks, they may prove to be insalubrious in long term exposure.