toxic masculinity

[Gypsy Nirvana]

How do men see their 'Masculinity?' -

Here is another graph from some survey of how different ethnicities/educated men get to say how MASCULINE they think they are - Hmmm - interesting - Makes me wonder what percentage could be classified as 'Toxic Masculinity' - and who would be the greatest perpetrators? - and if there is some link to increased testosterone - in some groups -

 

[armedoldhippy]

without taking the time to consider that masculinity is dynamic and can be expressed positively and negatively.

or "toxic or non-toxic". it is not an either/or deal...lots of gray out there.

 

[gaiusmarius]

or "toxic or non-toxic". it is not an either/or deal...lots of gray out there.

this has been my whole point all along, the only debate here is whether to use a devisive term like toxic masculinty to describe negative male attributes, or whether to use a more precise term like masculine toxicity.

for those that completely ignore all thats been said before when composing their responses. i never argued that men don't have toxic aspects.

 

[armedoldhippy]

this has been my whole point all along, the only debate here is whether to use a devisive term like toxic masculinty to describe negative male attributes, or whether to use a more precise term like masculine toxicity.

for those that completely ignore all thats been said before when composing their responses. i never argued that men don't have toxic aspects.

i don't think all men have toxic aspects in the manner we are talking about. everyone has facets that SOMEONE would label "toxic" i'm sure. (me included, lol. you can ask my wife.) we can use either term, i don't see an iota of difference in them. if either are divisive, i think both are.

 

[Weird]

or "toxic or non-toxic". it is not an either/or deal...lots of gray out there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxic_masculinity


not according to academia and science

 

[Weird]

Thankfully someone here knows how to google

 

[nepalnt21]

love or hate the term, it gets the discussion going.

semantics aside,

how bout hollywood and their normalization of toxic male traits?

 

[Teddybrae]

Pssst! Come closer. Listen. (Did you know that Testosterone is useful to sexually arouse post menopausal women?) (Did you know that Testosterone and Ciallis together assists the ageing male to have sex) (And d'you think he should drop an Eccy at the same time?)

- maybe if we could summarize this whole thing in one word - I'd say TESTOSTERONE - the more of it around - the more violence - the guys/ethnicities that show higher levels of testosterone are more prone to violence - that's why men are more likely to kill and maim another human - just look at the violent crime stats - male dominated - as always -

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* but the question always remains - that without TESTOSTERONE - would we have managed to get where we are as a 'civilization?'
-- without the strength and will to physically fight against our predators and enemies - would we have even made it this far?

 

[Teddybrae]

NO! NO! Lefty men with buns in their hair are BIG consumers of Steroids esp Testosterone because they get more fucks than Jocks do and need to keep their dick muscles in top condition. Especially us older ones. Older lefties with buns in their hair I mean. (I 'll put up a pic shortly. Should I be naked?)

these leftist men have an allergy to testosterone.. man bun wearing sniveling stick armed little crybaby wimps..using bureaucracy and bitch boy tactics to try to shit down on the real men of the world...

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Pssst! Come closer. Listen. (Did you know that Testosterone is useful to sexually arouse post menopausal women?) (Did you know that Testosterone and Ciallis together assists the ageing male to have sex) (And d'you think he should drop an Eccy at the same time?)

- Sure Teddy - TESTOSTERONE has its uses - and has been essential for human development in the past - and I know a few guys who take this male hormone in their later years to try and stay virile - and they say it works - (what's an 'Eccy?')

- What we are looking at is TESTOSTERONES potential association with what some are calling 'Toxic Masculinity' - Here I have looked into the association of testosterone and violence in younger men - and done a bit of research -

Saliva testosterone and criminal violence in young adult prison inmates.

Measured free testosterone in the saliva of 89 male prison inmates (aged mostly 18–23 yrs). Ss with higher testosterone concentrations had more often been convicted of violent crimes. The relationship was most striking at the extremes of the testosterone distribution, where 9 out of 11 Ss with the lowest testosterone concentrations had committed nonviolent crimes, and 10 out of 11 inmates with the highest testosterone concentrations had committed violent crimes. Among the inmates convicted on nonviolent crimes, those higher in testosterone received longer times to serve before parole and longer punishments for disciplinary infractions in prison. In the housing unit where peer ratings were most reliable, inmates rated as tougher by their peers were higher in testosterone. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2019 APA, all rights reserved)

https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1988-17191-001

 

[Weird]

Science and academia don't make claims that testosterone and hormones cause issues. Social mentality is the problem. i.e. gang and bully mentality.

The concept of toxic masculinity is used in academic and media discussions of masculinity to refer to certain cultural norms that are associated with harm to society and to men themselves. Traditional stereotypes of men as socially dominant, along with related traits such as misogyny and homophobia, can be considered "toxic" due in part to their promotion of violence, including sexual assault and domestic violence. The socialization of boys in patriarchal societies often normalizes violence, such as in the saying "boys will be boys" with regard to bullying and aggression.
Self-reliance and emotional repression are correlated with increased psychological problems in men such as depression, increased stress, and substance abuse. Toxic masculine traits are characteristic of the unspoken code of behavior among men in prisons, where they exist in part as a response to the harsh conditions of prison life.
Other traditionally masculine traits such as devotion to work, pride in excelling at sports, and providing for one's family, are not considered to be "toxic". The concept was originally used by authors associated with the mythopoetic men's movement such as Shepherd Bliss to contrast stereotypical notions of masculinity with a "real" or "deep" masculinity that they say men have lost touch with in modern society. Critics of the term argue that its meaning incorrectly implies gender-related issues are caused by inherent male traits.[1]

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

There is information out there that makes a case for 'T' (Testosterone) being instrumental in DOMINANCE - and so more likely to involve high 'T' people in violent 'Status Interactions' - and violence is toxic right? - unless used in self defence - found an interesting article along those lines - go to the link below if you want the full article -

- ''The implications of elevated T are uncertain. Studies show little if any direct link between high T and physical aggressiveness, but T may play an indirect role. In many settings, men’s circulating T is correlated with dominant behavior, criminal deviance, and a propensity to compete in status interactions such as those described by Anderson (Booth and Osgood, 1993; Mazur and Booth, 1998; Mazur, 2005; Mehta and Josephs, 2006; Carré et al., 2013).

- A man who has a recent rise in T, perhaps from a prior victory or a symbolic elevation in status, may be unusually assertive, challenging others in contests for dominance. Theoretically, the winner experiences rising T as a result of his victory, which should sustain or increase his assertiveness and his display of dominant signs such as erect posture, sauntering or striding gait, and direct eye contact with others. Thus bolstered, the dominant actor may seek out new challenges and is primed to win them.

- In everyday life, dominance contests are based on subtle cues, not on causing or even threatening physical harm to one’s adversary. But occasionally dominance contests escalate to a violent stage not originally intended or foreseen. -

- The most common type of criminal homicide is what criminologist Jack Katz (1988) calls “the impassioned killing” of someone for what the killer regards as a good moralistic reason, perhaps the defence of his family, his property, or his good name. These are precisely the kinds of killings that might result from a dominance contest that escalated beyond the usual bounds of non-violence.

- The literature on T and dominance has for years debated the issue of sex differences. Males produce far higher levels of T than females, their relevant organs are different, and T plays different roles in the development of each sex from the embryonic stage onward. Nonetheless, it remains uncertain whether the relationship between T and dominance is primarily a male mechanism or works in females too (e.g., Carré et al., 2013; Edwards and Castro, 2013). In the present study, at least, the sexes differ because the very high T seen among young black men with low education does not occur among young black women with low education.

- The biosocial model sketched here raises issues of scientific validity and policy ethics. The link between T and dominance has primarily correlational support and may be causally inaccurate. Any parsing of biomarkers by race and social class must be sensitive to the potential for invidious comparisons of groups.

- If high T does facilitate the high violence rate among young black men, there would be a troubling policy question of what, if anything, to do about it. Any notion of a medical or pharmaceutical fix, rather like prescribing Ritalin for hyperactivity, would reek of race-based chemical castration and should be regarded as outside the pale. However, social interventions might be workable and ethically acceptable.

- In one program, kindergarten boys were randomly assigned to a 10-year intervention or to a control group. The intervention attempted to develop social competencies and classroom performance, as well as training for parents to manage their child’s behavior. Years later, at a mean age of 26 years, participants responded to laboratory provocations. Results indicated that relative to control participants, men from the intervention demonstrated reduced aggression and T reactivity to social provocations (though not reduced basal T). Moreover, reduced T reactivity mediated the effect of intervention on aggressive behavior (Carré et al., 2014).

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsoc.2016.00001/full

 

[nepalnt21]

https://www.pittwire.pitt.edu/news/...n-box-scale-are-prone-violence-mental-illness

' the researchers developed a shorter version of the survey including only the five items that had the strongest associations with violence and poor mental health:

~A man shouldn’t have to do household chores.
~Men should use violence to get respect if necessary.
~A real man should have as many sexual partners as he can.
~A man who talks a lot about his worries, fears, and problems shouldn’t really get respect.
~A gay guy is not a “real man.”
“We have found a way to measure the concept of the ‘Man Box,’ which allows us to clearly see that when men embrace stereotypical ideas about manhood, they're also more likely to harm the well-being of others, as well as impact their own health in adverse ways,” said Gary Barker, Ph.D., president and C.E.O. of Promundo-US. “As health care providers, researchers and public health workers, we now have a valid tool in our pockets to help us measure progress toward changing harmful stereotypes and advancing both gender equality and healthier versions of masculinity.” '

 

[Donald Mallard]

- Sure Teddy - TESTOSTERONE has its uses - and has been essential for human development in the past - and I know a few guys who take this male hormone in their later years to try and stay virile - and they say it works - (what's an 'Eccy?')

- What we are looking at is TESTOSTERONES potential association with what some are calling 'Toxic Masculinity' - Here I have looked into the association of testosterone and violence in younger men - and done a bit of research -

Saliva testosterone and criminal violence in young adult prison inmates.

Measured free testosterone in the saliva of 89 male prison inmates (aged mostly 18–23 yrs). Ss with higher testosterone concentrations had more often been convicted of violent crimes. The relationship was most striking at the extremes of the testosterone distribution, where 9 out of 11 Ss with the lowest testosterone concentrations had committed nonviolent crimes, and 10 out of 11 inmates with the highest testosterone concentrations had committed violent crimes. Among the inmates convicted on nonviolent crimes, those higher in testosterone received longer times to serve before parole and longer punishments for disciplinary infractions in prison. In the housing unit where peer ratings were most reliable, inmates rated as tougher by their peers were higher in testosterone. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2019 APA, all rights reserved)

https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1988-17191-001

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My guess is that its an imbalance of hormones causing the negative behaviour ,
i dont think its just testosterone ,

more so folks that dont have correct balances of it ..



a guy we know here has trouble producing it ,
and rather than being a sook , he is more somewhat toxic as mentioned in these pages as the levels rise and fall was my estimation ,
other guys i know that i guess would have much higher levels than this guy seem quite comfortable with themselves and as a result cause few if any problems ....

apart from that individual behaviour is a result of how people are raised , the environment and experiences they have had as they grow ,
this also likely affects the levels of toxicity or lack of ...

 

[nepalnt21]

i subscribe to the whole most ppl are on autopilot idea... that's why i oppose commercial t.v.and their promotion/ normalization of toxic behavior... i believe generally that ppl watch the drivel and just act how they think the t.v. wants them to act.

 

[imiubu]

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[Bud Green]

I guess I must have had a little bit of it in my bloodstream when I was a younger man...

There was nothing "toxic" about it though...

..

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

- more to absorb - full article here - https://www.fatherly.com/health-science/toxic-masculinity-fake-male-insecurity/

- ''Bosson and Vandello concluded that many men view masculinity as a sort of currency that can be earned and stolen rather than as a fixed trait. They found most young boys working hard to earn manhood and a smaller population of men preoccupied with protecting this valuable social status. These men, the ones who worried about their masculine status being taken away, demonstrated a tendency to lash out if not externally validated. By contrast, girls tended to view the transition to womanhood as physical rather than social. Questioning their femininity was unlikely to trigger much more than a laugh -

- Bosson and Vandello posited that men are quite a bit more anxious about gender than women. But why? The answer seems to be more cultural than biological. In almost every culture, boys begin to police each other as they approach manhood, deeming only specific behaviors acceptable and demanding, in many cases, that aspirants to masculinity perform feats of social and physical strength.

- “Basically being a man is ultimately more valued in society, and being a woman is more devalued,” Maxine Craig, a sociologist at the University of California, Davis, explains. “Because men are more valued in society they have to watch their step in order not to lose that position.” -

- Gender is performative in general, and women certainly experience social pressures and have hierarchies. That said, because there’s less social status attached to the feminine, women may enjoy more freedom to be fluid than men. Feminists lampooned by their enemies for being too masculine — Lady Gaga has, for instance, been accused of hiding a secret penis — tend to shrug off the jokes, while the men who make them struggle to grant the premise that gender roles are oppressive. Understanding that they have more to lose, men flee the conversation or prepare to fight -

If the precariousness of the male identity is more potentially destructive than masculine behaviors, one would expect the most toxic behavior to occur in the most precarious groups. And that’s exactly what is happening. Roughly three-quarters of violent crimes in America are committed by men, and the peak age for every form of criminal activity surveilled by the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting program is under 25. (The exception is gambling.) The median age for most crimes is under 30.

Who engages in dangerously toxic behavior? Young men, the people that worry most about their gender status.

Although a young man in a privileged position may have the resources to assert his manhood in constructive ways (excelling academically, professionally, or even athletically), more marginalized young men who don’t have healthy outlets are less likely to receive external validation. Communities with a high density of underprivileged young men without access to validation tend to be high crime communities, in which manhood is expressed through substance abuse, homophobia, sexism, harassment, extreme risk-taking, and violence. This is toxicity, but the problem does not seem to be masculine ideals. Kids in America’s toughest neighborhoods and Afghanistan’s toughest provinces all have positive male role models. What they don’t have is a sense of gendered stability.

Testosterone tends to shoulder the blame for poor male behavior and it is true that higher testosterone levels are linked to low-risk aversion, aggression, and violent tendencies. Men with higher sex hormone levels are also more sensitive to masculinity threats. But Vandello is reluctant to blame biology for men lashing out when their manhood is threatened. Social rules, consequences, and the policing of masculinity reinforce the idea that men have to perform and defend it. Men must be convinced that their manhood is suspect. This is not an innate anxiety.

“The construction of gender identity for men is more fragile than for women. In many cultures, one is born a woman — and one becomes a man,” - psychotherapist, podcaster, and author Esther Perel recently wrote on her well-trafficked personal site. Perel, the mother of two boys, was teasing a conference dubbed “The Paradox of Masculinity,” at which she spoke to a packed room of therapists in Midtown Manhattan (and to an international audience via a video link) about the need for a better understanding of what makes men tick.

One of the five pillars of male identity she discussed in her keynote was trauma. She explained to her majority female audience that most men experience rejection tied to masculinity at some point in their lives and that this often leaves a profound mark. To illustrate this point, she shared a clip of the documentary The Work, about men in group therapy in a prison. In the clip, a man describes being sent away by his engineer father for not understanding how to help work on a car. Decades after he was told to go find his mother, the wound is still clearly fresh. He cries.

- Perel’s audience respectfully scribbled notes. But not all of her colleagues have been so pleased to have a woman looking under the hood of maleness. -

 

[imiubu]

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[gaiusmarius]

roflmfao hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

look what youtube recommended in my feed lmao.....

James Brown - It's A Man's Man's Man's World 1966

[YOUTUBEIF]7rq9OvaJyRc[/YOUTUBEIF]

he'd be cancelled today for sure.....