Tourists no longer welcome in cannabis-selling coffee shops

[arcticsun]

lmao, sorry I dont know, please dont let my fleeing mind destroy what was a great thread and discussion.

Sorry again, and carry on hehehe

peace all

 

[DocLeaf]

Haha,, if in doubt blame Thatcher

 

[arcticsun]

hehe ill just clarify that my comment and the hypothesis following it was only related to the statement quoted in my post, and not directly the the topic in discussion. Im watching this program on the differences of the sexes on TV as I type this, so this comes as a result of my thoughts around that. Sorry again for the offtopic.

 

[arcticsun]

back on topic, just to get this rolling again. I personally think that some of the problems related to the crime in Holland is due to the fact that they have legalized the trade, but dont have an organized and legalized supply chain. So the production and supply still generates a black market.

Question is who is really responsible for the production and supply?

 

[kopite]

Haha,, if in doubt blame Thatcher

fuck yourself knobhead......... where you from? East Anglia? quite easy to dismiss something when you aren't still living in the aftermath of what she and her party did .... The North /South divide is still evident now more than ever I see.

Imho the old good tory is swinging from a scaffold in a noose, but I would say that, I'm from the north, a mining community destroyed by the heartless bastards and still never recovered, yes, it can be very grim up north, but only because the tories down south made it that way. I never realised how poor and underprivileged my background was until I went to university in 1993 and met people from all over the country. I thought everyone's dad was unemployed in the 80s. I still remember when job centres had bright orange signs and queues of hundreds of men outside every morning.

Maggie Bloody Thatcher and Edward heath got a lot to answer for, and there hasn't been a true socialist politician in a position of any significance since Tony Benn and Michael Foot. Thatcher was bloody lucky Galtieri invaded the Falklands, oh how my youth could have been different if he hadn't cos Thatcher would have got booted out.

well said... and RIP Michael Foot

 

[indifferent]

I met Michael Foot twice, stunning intellect, truly a genius, his curse was to be a man out of time, a crusty academic with no interest in fostering a slick public image but great policies and ideas stood little chance of getting elected in the Saatchi & Saatchi glam advertising world of the early 80s.

It wasn't quite as bad as it got in the 1920s, but it was pretty bad, town I live in went from a thriving, bustling steel town of 27,000 in 1969 to a ghost town of 5,000 by 1985. It's not got any better since really, population has gone up a bit due to influx of people from down south but there are still no jobs, I'm 35 and half the people I know my age have never worked a day in their lives, not because they are lazy but because there simply are no jobs. Another sad indicator of how limited opportunities are here for young people is how many of the young people from here are in the army.

These days, no-one here can afford to buy a house because rich bastards from down south have bought up all the houses because it's rural and beautiful here and they can sell their 3-bed semi down south for half a million, buy a similar house here for 75K and live off the profits for a few years.

I've never been proud to be British and never felt like I had much in common with people from outside the 'grim north', my country has wiped it's arse with people like me and my family for a long time.

 

[DocLeaf]

Kopite ,, please loose the attitude. (it was a joke dude)

I n I live everywhere in the hearts of many

Btw,, some of the finest dope we ever smoked came from East Anglia.. so dont knock it.. lol

I've never been proud to be British and never felt like I had much in common with people from outside the 'grim north'.

I'm proud to be English... (anyone can be British these days),, but not when we see English football hooligans in Amsterdam.

They seriously bring the place down. Again if it's these creatures coffeeshops are aiming to discourage,, then fair play to them

Peace n flowers

 

[jack.gh]

wowowowowow. shit is getting out of hand here.... anyways, the point i was trying to make was that the dutch coffeeshop policy, prevents kids from visiting their local HARD DRUG dealer to score some weed. they just need to send someone to a coffeeshop.

and the addicts we have in amsterdam are more than 65% foreigners. they come here so that they won't be harrased and thrown in jail as easy, doesn't make them dutch though.

the average age of a heroin addict in NL is between 45 and 55.....unlike in other countries in europe, where the average age is in the twenties. check the UN Drug Report and you will see that in holland we have one of the lowest percentages of hard and soft drug users, specially in the ages of 16 to 35.

yes kids here take xtc and coke to party, but they tend to use it wisely, if that's possible ;-) there is less abuse here...
could go on and on about this, but i've made my point.

 

[vaped]

Last time I was in the dam was 2004. I stayed right on the red light about a block from the museum and sensi seed bank. The street dealers were horrible. The bad part is most wouldnt just leave you alone they would follow you trying to change your mind for about a block. You could tell you were getting into another pushers turf because the last was done badgering in your ear. They just didnt understand I dont do hard drugs. Now you cant do shrooms in the dam and honestly the weed is buch better in the u.s.a now than it was in the dam 6 years ago. 50% of the bad ass genetics came in the netherlands came from America now with the medical scene exploding the competion is over. The best weed in the world lies right between the Atlantic and Pacific oceans. I happen to be there so no dealing with dealers in Amsterdam for me.

 

[daddy fingaz]

I'm proud to be English... (anyone can be British these days),, but not when we see English football hooligans in Amsterdam.

I remember going to dam just after Euro 2000, to be fair i think Dam was the only place there wasnt violence!

We were sat next to an elderly couple in a regular cafe who overheard me and my friends chatting, the old guy turned to us and said 'are you English' , 'yes' we replied, .. 'are you hooligans then?' was his response!
funnily enough the couple turned out to be Belgian!

 

[indifferent]

My family have been English since 1086 at least, got an unusual surname and the whole family comes from a wee village of the same name, I expect my distant relatives were here fighting the Romans.

Gotta say though, never felt I fitted in around here, most people are racist, BNP does well here, it's racism through ignorance, most of em never met a black or brown fella, lots of em never been out of the country, some haven't even travelled more than 100 miles from here. Hell, first black guy I ever met in my life was a bus driver in London when I was on holiday aged about 14!

I often feel ashamed of my nation when I'm abroad and see the behaviour of some of my fellow countrymen. I understand what the problem is though - alcohol.

Booze is so deeply ingrained in British culture, I seen it destroy a lot of lives, heroin and other bad drugs never been much of a problem where i live, too small, police can keep tabs on everything, too many informers, but alcohol, it's a huge problem here, has been for a long time. There was/is a lost generation here, all the guys in their 30s and 40s who have never worked cos we lost all our industry overnight, I'd say a good half of them have a fairly severe drink problem, drink is cheap, readily available and there is no stigma attached to it's use. It kills you slowly if you drink to excess, it rots you away from the inside, the worst is cheap white cider, that stuff should be banned.

Holland and other european countries don't seem to have the same kind of drink problems as the UK does, of course they will have some drink problems, but the UK just seems particularly bad, probably only places in Eastern Europe can match us for alcoholism.

No wonder many europeans see us as hooligans, every saturday night here is a running battle, all due to drink, and its people who are friends and will be sorry they did it when they sober up, I seen people trying to rip each other's heads off then crying in each other's arms 10 minutes later when they realised what they were doing, drink can destroy your self respect and dignity, it's a horrible drug if abused.

It all comes down to education i think, in the UK we are not taught that drink is bad, certainly growing up no-one ever lectured us about drinking too much, never seen anyone's parents tell em off for drinking too much, it's all just so socially acceptable, it's crazy.

BTW, I'm far from tee-total myself but don't drink that often and never too much, although I enjoy getting drunk, I hate drinking too much, just enough for a good buzz and all is good, and not too often. As my grannie always said 'everything in moderation'.

Jack makes some great points about the Dutch heroin users, that is the result of 30 plus years of acceptance of the problem, education of the young and treatment of addicts, people in Holland rarely die under bridges with needles in their arm. Holland doesn't have a drink problem like the Uk either, so I think the key really is education and acceptance that these substances are always going to be around and always open to abuse by some people.

The war on drugs has done a lot of harm, rather than saying all these things are so bad and you are not allowed them at all and if you use them you are a criminal has not worked at all to curb the drug problem, the war on drugs is a manifest failure. Education and control is a better way that criminalisation.

PS when the European Football Championships were held in Holland a few years ago, the levels of hooliganism were at their lowest for many years, this was attributed to two things - the readily available cannabis and the control introduced to curb alcohol sales, closing some bars at certain times, banning alcohol in certain streets etc. Greater Manchester police were there working with the Dutch police to identify English hooligans, they actually concluded that cannabis had played a major role in keeping the situation calm and mellow and reducing violence, they also noted that alchohol sales and related problems were far lower than at other events where cannabis hadn't been readily available.

 

[facelift]

Amsterdam should do what's best for Amsterdam and it's people. I've never been there and have no plans to go. If closing down coffee houses to tourists will make Amsterdam a better world to live in then they should enforce this. As an American, I have no place telling Amsterdam how to run a country. I don't live there and don't know the woes they face.

Sorry, there is no limb for me to climb out upon here. It's their home, they should take care of it.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

My family have been English since 1086 at least, got an unusual surname and the whole family comes from a wee village of the same name, I expect my distant relatives were here fighting the Romans.

Gotta say though, never felt I fitted in around here, most people are racist, BNP does well here, it's racism through ignorance, most of em never met a black or brown fella, lots of em never been out of the country, some haven't even travelled more than 100 miles from here. Hell, first black guy I ever met in my life was a bus driver in London when I was on holiday aged about 14!

I often feel ashamed of my nation when I'm abroad and see the behaviour of some of my fellow countrymen. I understand what the problem is though - alcohol.

Booze is so deeply ingrained in British culture, I seen it destroy a lot of lives, heroin and other bad drugs never been much of a problem where i live, too small, police can keep tabs on everything, too many informers, but alcohol, it's a huge problem here, has been for a long time. There was/is a lost generation here, all the guys in their 30s and 40s who have never worked cos we lost all our industry overnight, I'd say a good half of them have a fairly severe drink problem, drink is cheap, readily available and there is no stigma attached to it's use. It kills you slowly if you drink to excess, it rots you away from the inside, the worst is cheap white cider, that stuff should be banned.

Holland and other european countries don't seem to have the same kind of drink problems as the UK does, of course they will have some drink problems, but the UK just seems particularly bad, probably only places in Eastern Europe can match us for alcoholism.

No wonder many europeans see us as hooligans, every saturday night here is a running battle, all due to drink, and its people who are friends and will be sorry they did it when they sober up, I seen people trying to rip each other's heads off then crying in each other's arms 10 minutes later when they realised what they were doing, drink can destroy your self respect and dignity, it's a horrible drug if abused.

It all comes down to education i think, in the UK we are not taught that drink is bad, certainly growing up no-one ever lectured us about drinking too much, never seen anyone's parents tell em off for drinking too much, it's all just so socially acceptable, it's crazy.

BTW, I'm far from tee-total myself but don't drink that often and never too much, although I enjoy getting drunk, I hate drinking too much, just enough for a good buzz and all is good, and not too often. As my grannie always said 'everything in moderation'.

Jack makes some great points about the Dutch heroin users, that is the result of 30 plus years of acceptance of the problem, education of the young and treatment of addicts, people in Holland rarely die under bridges with needles in their arm. Holland doesn't have a drink problem like the Uk either, so I think the key really is education and acceptance that these substances are always going to be around and always open to abuse by some people.

The war on drugs has done a lot of harm, rather than saying all these things are so bad and you are not allowed them at all and if you use them you are a criminal has not worked at all to curb the drug problem, the war on drugs is a manifest failure. Education and control is a better way that criminalisation.

PS when the European Football Championships were held in Holland a few years ago, the levels of hooliganism were at their lowest for many years, this was attributed to two things - the readily available cannabis and the control introduced to curb alcohol sales, closing some bars at certain times, banning alcohol in certain streets etc. Greater Manchester police were there working with the Dutch police to identify English hooligans, they actually concluded that cannabis had played a major role in keeping the situation calm and mellow and reducing violence, they also noted that alchohol sales and related problems were far lower than at other events where cannabis hadn't been readily available.

Very good post.....but you left out one vital ingredient at the very end of the post where the English were in the Dam for the football, they had ready access to plenty of available ladies in the redlight, so diffusing their want to ruck(fight).......effectively reinforcing their 'fuck or fight' mentality.....

 

[indifferent]

Excellent point El Presidente! It really does boil down to base instincts like fuck or fight, alcohol breaks down your inhibitions so you follow your baser instincts, be that punching someone who you don't care for or jumping on the nearest available harlot like a yorkshire terrier humping grandma's leg!

 

[VerdantGreen]

yes the british will drink to excess, more so than most other nationalities. i think the big difference nowadays is that people drink at home, whereas in my parents generation that was very stigmatized and people would drink at the pub and probably not have the money to do so every night, booze is much cheeper now.

as for the Dam banning tourist smokers, that sounds like a very bad business decision to me and the Dutch have always been pretty good at business - apart from losing manhatten when the tulip market crashed - bygones

V.

 

[CtHaddock]

Is anyone familiar with EU law? As I understand you may not discriminate a EU citizen based on nationality in any case including trade. Isn't it tourists from neighbouring countrys that just come over the day to buy weed/hash in the citys along the border that is the problem? If I understand correctly they will only be able to stop tourists from outside EU from buying?

 

[gaiusmarius]

hehe good points, maybe that's a good part of the eu the cops get to see the advantages of the dutch system first hand at big events. i'm sure they quickly see the benefits of not having to go head on with a bunch of enraged drunks at every event, lol. mind you they have a lot of easy policing to lose in their daily lives if everyone took the Dutch route. they do seem to like busting and fining mainly peaceful people, so i guess the drug war will go on for a while longer anyway.

 

[stasis]

Fascinating discussion, Friends... Especially for this heady 'Merkin, who has a full passport, but presently lives in a Small-Town-Small Mind place, where I was able to learn how to choose phenotypes and grow Hi-Q Medical MJ...

On my way to a Sabbatical... Or a Life-Change.....

Pulling Purple Flowers, and Some Afgoo. Making Bubble. Cleaning up, Shutting down. Preparing to Travel, Surf, Be...

If these are some of the criteria for judging a Society, Safe to Say that The You Ess Ay is TRASH(ed).....!!!

.... Bankrupted Financially, Spiritually, and Ethically.

Truly, any City of any size IS Unsafe after hours in large portions of its' areas... Waiting in front of NightClubs has become, in effect, Russian Roulette. People shooting of their Pop-Guns all over the place.. Complete Madness. So many weapons.

My Humble take on it, after many, many trips to A'dam/Netherlands/EU is that it is Simple.

The Dutch are a Moderate, Pragmatic, and Mostly Hospitable people, with a Sane Society. And that is why this Grand Experiment has worked as well as it has...

The people feel safe and somewhat taken care of... CERTAINLY much more, when compared to the thinking people of the USA, who feel disenfranchised, and cynical. And have No "Safety Net," of any kind. Except the Legal Declaration of Bankrupcy.

I personally love the British Culture as well. The Arts, music, sense of humour, and Civilization... Same problems within the Economy as the US has, though... But, what has been alarming has been the increase in the Number of Groups of angry Hooligans on Weekends over the years in AMS. It has become a huge bummer.

Although I loves me a few shots of good Tequila, or my Distillerie Guy Swiss Clear Absinthe brought from AMS, occaisionally, IMHO Alcohol is a Scourge..

Great Discussion.... ThX....

See Y'all soon...!!

 

[kopite]

Kopite ,, please loose the attitude. (it was a joke dude)

I n I live everywhere in the hearts of many

Btw,, some of the finest dope we ever smoked came from East Anglia.. so dont knock it.. lol



I'm proud to be English... (anyone can be British these days),, but not when we see English football hooligans in Amsterdam.

They seriously bring the place down. Again if it's these creatures coffeeshops are aiming to discourage,, then fair play to them

Peace n flowers

Whilst it's a joke to you, for me and many others it isn't!!

I have also been to many football matches in Amsterdam and most riots/fighting I have seen has all been with the dutch fighting each other.. They still cage people in at games (away supporters) Hooligans are Hooligans regardless... I can recall one incident in the Amsterdam arena where Ajax played Vittese... where Vittese scored and a few fans cheered at the other end to us, a large group of lads started running down the tunnels and popped up at the other end and starting pummeling the away fans.. the stands all interlink... everyone cheered bar us.. an old couple next to us smiled and said arghh you english should enjoy this... that saddened me to be honest and shows how we are potrayed when in fact quite the oppersite is true (in general, theres still knobs everywhere).. I believe the problem to be drink culture... some of us Football Fans (not hooligans) actually give a shit about the image we have, and have done many things to change the way we are potrayed.. as with many things education is the key...

Kopite

 

[arcticsun]

Booze is so deeply ingrained in British culture, I seen it destroy a lot of lives

lol the booze, bring your beer drinking ass to northern Scandinavia and ill show you people that can drink 60% moonshine all day every day without catching as much as a light swagger on polished ice on a near vertical mountainside.

Dont blame the friggin booze, its the babylonian attitude thats embedded in the culture. I swear some dudes act like they mommas didnt love them when they were kids, i mean whats up with this gathering like cows in a street and shouting bloody moronic babylonian suppressing chants, its like these guys werent breastfed enough as kids.


Only loosers need the redlight in the dam in any case, drop by rembrandsplein and watch busloads of spanish schoolgirls fall out of the buses drunk as fuck. Paying for it is for suckers, real players drop by the dam and get paid!..

Fuck I love Amsterdam, I LOVE IT!! The Dutch and the Danish are much alike, you have GOT to be a world class asshole to not be accepted there.