The search for a proper recovery pump..

[SneakySneaky]

the heat mats, trying to keep up with the new found speed, ended up melting the plastic base on the frame where the spool sits.....back to the drawing boards to see how else we can heat the spool to keep up with the gasts speed.

shes still running, just trying to get her dialed in and the more i tinker with it the more i learn what i can and cant do with the pump, sudden pressure changes are the death nail for this pump. another problem is that it pulls so fast its causing the butane to sublimate prior to maximum saturation which was easily fixed by feathering the pump valve.

thank god i drive a 5 speed manual and know the sound of an engine bout to sputter out and that slight difference in overall tonality is very easy to miss due to the sound of the promax. After a 6 hour straight "breaking in" session the promax has quieted down exponentially thankfully, however it is still louder than the gast making it rather difficult to hear the motor when the pressure raises too much and tries to sputter out.

The dewaxing filters are being resized to fit inside the new setup and the world will keep spinning.

ill wait to post pics so people dont immediately rip off the new design before ive put this thing thru the ringer

 

[SneakySneaky]

Is the Gast made to run with butane, or capable of dealing with it better then the G5?

the gast isnt specifically designed for butane, however its design is capable of handleing it.

the problem with the g5's is the rubber piston seal rings keep going out, first thought "hey lets replace the seal rings" sounds good except that viton is too hard of a material to use on the piston.

if somebody comes up with a solution to that id love to know as i currently have 2 appions that are broken sittin on a shelf and id love to have $1200 wortha pumps running on something.

 

[HighStateToke]

SS, gast pump aside, would you say the Promax is more reliable than a g5?

 

[Gray Wolf]

Is the Gast made to run with butane, or capable of dealing with it better then the G5?

The Gast is a metal diaphragm compressor, which is better equipped to run at low vacuum with no lubrication, but incapable of putting out more than about 60 psi or 26" Hg vacuum.

We've done both with it.

The problem with all of the oil less designs, is that when under vacuum, there is no lubrication for the cylinders. A metal diaphragm pump needs no lubrication.

Now that SS has run it for awhile, it has become less finicky, so we may have needed break in the diaphragm pump first.

The bonus of course, is how fast it is! It is a major improvement, which we will be exploiting in our future designs. Hee, hee, hee.........

SS mentions that the lower silicone heat pad over temped and melted the 1/2" HDPE shelf cover. Apparently because it couldn't keep up, the controller turned it full on.

Too, too much refrigeration for the heat pads to track, so we will be moving back to a hot water bath for the lower pot, which we will circulate through a hot water tank to keep at set point.

 

[Gray Wolf]

SS, gast pump aside, would you say the Promax is more reliable than a g5?

Too early to tell. The 6000 is a good match for the Gast from a speed standpoint.

 

[Permacultuure]

I have had experience with the promax 6000...IME it was quieter than the appions, but failed quicker, after two weeks, being ran 12hrs a day. No noticeable difference in recovery times tho.

sneaky - I put viton seals in a few of my appions and they have been running flawlessly since, sourced locally for .10....
"Rip off the new design"?? what happen to open source? guess its safe to say your name aint Sharon

 

[Gray Wolf]

I have had experience with the promax 6000...IME it was quieter than the appions, but failed quicker, after two weeks, being ran 12hrs a day. No noticeable difference in recovery times tho.

sneaky - I put viton seals in a few of my appions and they have been running flawlessly since, sourced locally for .10....
"Rip off the new design"?? what happen to open source? guess its safe to say your name aint Sharon

The first 6000 quietened down after a day of running and is probably quieter than an Appion, but sure started out loud. We haven't run the second one beyond turning it on to see if it was also loud.

We may still have an operational Appion on site to compare it to, and if so, I will. I may have to rebuild one first.

We have most of the seals here locally as well, but may I ask what you found as a replacement for the piston sleeve and the source?

 

[JColtrane]

Gotta love those Chinese pump ... loud as fuck, but tuff! I can only imagine the conditions they're built in, lol.

Anyways, is the Promaxx unit's piston gasket easy to replace like the Appion? The body looks easier to geton and off on the Promaxx

 

[Permacultuure]

I use the sleeve from the seal promax seal kit, which I managed to get a dozen of after having a long friendly chat with the shipping manager of century tool. She too thought it was ridiculous that AirKlean had such a large order constantly. I got 12 he got 40.....still got a few left.

 

[SneakySneaky]

SS, gast pump aside, would you say the Promax is more reliable than a g5?

no idea yet. the one thing i will say is that promax at least gives you insturctions of how to open up the pump and spare parts numbers so it looks much easier to fix than the appion.

the gast and the promax are working well together. as the gast increases the pressure of the 50 lb tank the promax speeds up a bit and then they tend to balance out.

bout to go get some more ice and see if i can fuck this pump up and stall it out a few times.....the more you know what not to do the better you can do something.

Gotta love those Chinese pump ... loud as fuck, but tuff! I can only imagine the conditions they're built in, lol.

Anyways, is the Promaxx unit's piston gasket easy to replace like the Appion? The body looks easier to geton and off on the Promaxx

dunno havent broken it yet, but it seem simple enough from the diagrams... but so do rubiks cubes so it might be simple or it might be a nightmare, thats why i got 2 of them so when i break the first one theres time to fix the first.

 

[SneakySneaky]

I have had experience with the promax 6000...IME it was quieter than the appions, but failed quicker, after two weeks, being ran 12hrs a day. No noticeable difference in recovery times tho.

sneaky - I put viton seals in a few of my appions and they have been running flawlessly since, sourced locally for .10....
"Rip off the new design"?? what happen to open source? guess its safe to say your name aint Sharon

last thing we want is for others to jump on board the band wagon till weve had the ability to test it completely. a good example would be the fire that was caused by a heating mat shorting out which prompted gw and i to rethink things for everyones safety. theres a reason why my setup is secretive, its a beta tester and is constantly evolving for the benefit of all terpenators.

Thankfully im smart enough to understand yet dumb enough to try, kind of like experimental jet pilots.......


how long have you been running the appions with the new viton seals? of the 2 people i know that tried this it didnt work for either of them so if youve got gaskets that fit properly and work long term you sir are gonna be a bunch of peoples hero.

 

[SneakySneaky]

We may still have an operational Appion on site to compare it to, and if so, I will. I may have to rebuild one first.

We have most of the seals here locally as well, but may I ask what you found as a replacement for the piston sleeve and the source?

theres still a brand new appion, the tr21's and the unused new promax, ill call my friend and see if he has a decibel meter. the gast is the quietest one by far, reminds me of hearing a distant country neighbor cut his grass...a low constant whirr.

this gast pump is kickin more ass than a redneck on crystal meth that caught you with his wife.

 

[JColtrane]

i've replace my seals about a week ago ... after ever run I pressure check, no prob so far ... produced about 1.5 lbs through it so far

 

[HighStateToke]

http://www.appioninc.com/downloads/files/TB-Hydrocarbon_Explosion_Hazards.pdf

Nothing new...albeit quite disheartening to read.

 

[Gray Wolf]

As I understand it, we cost Appion a lot of money by returning a bunch of machines after breaking them under warranty. An acquaintance said they had pallet loads of them in their warehouse, ready to send back.

Has anyone heard of an explosion using a recovery machine yet, and if so, how it happened?

 

[SkyHighLer]

http://www.appioninc.com/downloads/files/TB-Hydrocarbon_Explosion_Hazards.pdf

Nothing new...albeit quite disheartening to read.

At least they're being honest, might purdy piece of CYA.

 

[Permacultuure]

last thing we want is for others to jump on board the band wagon till weve had the ability to test it completely. a good example would be the fire that was caused by a heating mat shorting out which prompted gw and i to rethink things for everyones safety. theres a reason why my setup is secretive, its a beta tester and is constantly evolving for the benefit of all terpenators.

Thankfully im smart enough to understand yet dumb enough to try, kind of like experimental jet pilots.......


how long have you been running the appions with the new viton seals? of the 2 people i know that tried this it didnt work for either of them so if youve got gaskets that fit properly and work long term you sir are gonna be a bunch of peoples hero.

Been running them for months, 12 hrs a day, 3-5 days a week. I stopped doing multiple floods and switched to single pass in order to prolong the life of the pumps so this may have something to do with it. What issues did these two have?

I understand not wanting to lead people down the wrong path.... is this dewaxing filter setup super dangerous?

Keep up the good progress bro! any pics of the new recovery setup?

 

[JColtrane]

^ I almost think a "single pass" is really all you need. anything else, i feel you might be just picking up crap ....

 

[Gray Wolf]

Been running them for months, 12 hrs a day, 3-5 days a week. I stopped doing multiple floods and switched to single pass in order to prolong the life of the pumps so this may have something to do with it. What issues did these two have?

I understand not wanting to lead people down the wrong path.... is this dewaxing filter setup super dangerous?

Keep up the good progress bro! any pics of the new recovery setup?

I can't share others proprietary process information, but the pump installation on this beta unit is my design, so I can share information on that.

Pieces are separated and behind things, so it isn't easy to take pictures, but here is the PID drawing.

I just hooked both Gast intake ports individually to the intake manifold, and teed the outlets together at the pressure switch.

Kudos and accolades to Rickys Bong for the brain fart I based my design on.

 

[Permacultuure]

Beautiful! Thank you GW!