N
Neptune
use the smell test.
follow your nose
follow your nose
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V
vonforne
bump
secondascent
Member
I committed my whole garden to the 3lb reuse method...followed it as completely as i could (minus the diatomeceous earth) and in all honestly, my plants have never grown better....its comparable to growing in f.f. ocean forest soil.
Veg is very green and lush, fast growth, very little recovery time required after transplanting or cloning
Flo is nice growth, fattening of buds, no deficiencies or sign of ailments anywhere on the plants.
organics is a pre-requisite to growing herb in my opinion. ive never used non-organic methods but with this method cost is low, you save a bunch of soil...not to mention the time and work you save into replenishing and disposing non-reused soil and chems.
keep it organic!
Veg is very green and lush, fast growth, very little recovery time required after transplanting or cloning
Flo is nice growth, fattening of buds, no deficiencies or sign of ailments anywhere on the plants.
organics is a pre-requisite to growing herb in my opinion. ive never used non-organic methods but with this method cost is low, you save a bunch of soil...not to mention the time and work you save into replenishing and disposing non-reused soil and chems.
keep it organic!
VictoryGardener
holy hell
I'd just throw the entire pot of soil into the composter with some uncomposted green and brown matter.. the rootball will compost and give the dirt structure.. yea of course always moisten and microwave composted dirt.. although it is great for growing, it can carry some little nasties that need to be EXTERMINATED!
V
vonforne
secondascent said:
I found the OF would show def about 3 weeks into a long growth cycle. The 3lb way uses some long term release elements like Rock phosphate which work best on the second run and beyond. After each use the soil texture gets to where you are comfortable with, knowing just what your plants like. So, you add to each cycle your their favorite soil additives. Our attention to the soil, gives to the plant. IMO what I learned from their method is that you must feed the soil on the long term so it may feed your plants the same. And what makes us organic growers special IMO is that we understand the basic needs in life. And we can achive this by recycling organic compounds that are left over as waste. That we make ourselves BTW. We have no need to run and buy a bottle. Ahhhh, enough rambling, you get the idea. Right?
V
vonforne
Here is the 3lb. manuel on Soil Recycling
Simple Soil Recycling by the 3LB
I am not the 3LB, but i do like the way they do things... I plan on doing 100% organics because ive been getting headaches from the hydroponic grown crap. This is an excerpt I found from another thread.
ok here goes . . .
in the beginning God made earth also variously known as soil/dirt/sand/clay/loam etc . . . and then later Miracle-it-Grows made a mockery of the term soil and this begat hydroponics (just so no one tries to take this literally and accuse the bird’s of spreading misinformation - yes we know miracle grow soil didn’t cause the rise of hydroponics - but it makes a nice introduction story!). . . and thus began the three_little_birds efforts to bring real dirt back into indoor farming . . .
Farmer's don't throw out their topsoil after a crop, so we've always found the suggestion that folks dispose of soil after every indoor crop kind of ridiculous . . . we set out to disprove those folks who said that soil needed to be disposed of and in the process we've found our soil actually grew more fertile with time and some effort!
what will it take to use your soil over and over . . . time . . .dedication . . .a willingness (and ability) to do a lil physical labor . . . our process will involve some observation on the soil makers part . . .and you'll need to do a lil thinking . . . you will have to avoid salt and chemical ferts at all costs and build a collection of boxes or containers of different organic amendments sitting around on shelves . . .
we started with a standard soil mix pretty much like everyone else . . . when choosing a beginning organic soil we look for products like FoxFarm OceanForest or Mushroom Compost (at least the "shroom post" we find) that are often more "tree fiber" based rather than built with peat moss . . . we prefer these as our primary component over soil mixes like ProMix or SunshineMix that are mostly peat which is more acidic . . . if you plan on reusing your soil just once or twice then the peat mixes will probably work fine . . . but if you hope to use your soil endlessly like at the bird's nest then we'd say not more than 50% peat based mix to 50% tree fiber mix . . .
for the first grow prior to recycling we used a more expensive potting soil mix like the FoxFarm and then mixed in about 1/3 cheap peat based organic soil mix that was mostly peat, perlite and sand . . . we grew a couple small crops from start to finish using Earth Juice organic fertilizers and dumped all the used soil in a big 50 gallon Rubbermaid tub (w/ lid) . . . when the tub was about 4/5ths full (appx. 40 gallons of used soil) we stopped adding soil and went to work . . .
that first pass on soil remixing we added bone meal, blood meal, kelp meal and dolomite lime to the used soil . . . to be quite honest our proportions have changed a lil bit over time but it was likely something in the range of 2 cups blood meal, 4 cups kelp meal, 4 cups bone meal and 4 cups of dolomite lime . . . we mixed all those ingredients into our soil and moistened and waited a month until it was time for more soil . . .
For our next grow we would have mixed in about equal proportions of fresh and remixed amended soil . . . about ½ used soil with ½ fresh new soil and perhaps a lil added perlite to make sure the soil stayed light . . . and ran that through another grow using moderate feedings with the Earth Juice ferts . . . again we collected the used soil as it finished in the 50 gallon Rubbermaid bins . . .
at this point we started using our soil as an indoor compost bin for indoor garden waste. . . we really didn’t want to dispose of our fan leaf and stem trim in the trash . . . so we began chopping our indoor garden wastes and mixing them into our soil . . . we had quite a build up of trim trash at one time and to be honest it didn’t break down that fast this first time . . . we turned the compost in that bin several times in the next couple of months to get that trim to decompose . . . it seemed like the stems never would break down . . . finally they kind of decomposed and we mixed that “composted” soil in with our normal remixed soil and thus our composted soil methods began . . .
the plants grown in that remixed soil containing compost were very strong . . . stronger still than their sisters in fresh soil and with our 50/50 fresh and used soil remix . . . so we started including some composted soil in with every mix . . . we stopped adding any fresh soil to the mix about this time as well . . . in honesty we’d run short on soil for the moment and decided to try 100% remix . . . it worked . . . and it worked well . . .
Now let’s fast forward to a day when all of the soil remix bins had just been freshly mixed and were still stabilizing . . . we were ready to move another container to our bloom room and there was plenty of our compost on hand but no soil ready . . . now if a person reads Ed Rosenthal or Cervantes they will usually see warnings against trying to grow plants in homemade compost . . . we never quite understood this since compost is great as a top dressing in the normal garden outdoors and such . . . but we were still concerned that the “experts” knew something we didn’t . . .
we filled a 2'x3' container w/ compost and transplanted the plants in simply hoping for the best . . . turns out there was no reason to worry at all . . . they grew HUGE . . . the next time we had enough indoor compost to experiment in this way again we did . . . and the results were again beyond our normal experience . . . a third “bumper crop” from pure compost convinced us that there were secrets in the soil . . .
this post is closing in on two pages in length on the word processor now . . . so it’d be best to come back with one more post describing the current state of ongoing soil recycling project at the bird’s nest . . . in concept and practice it’s actually quite simple . . . we add organic matter as available to our soil . . . amend with nutrient goodies . . . and treat it all with great care and love . . .
we’ll be back to share the love and our current soil methods . . . the secret may very well be in the soil . . . but the bird’s won’t be keeping any secrets ourselves on how our methods work . . .
wow thats alot to read lol but all great info.
Simple Soil Recycling by the 3LB
I am not the 3LB, but i do like the way they do things... I plan on doing 100% organics because ive been getting headaches from the hydroponic grown crap. This is an excerpt I found from another thread.
ok here goes . . .
in the beginning God made earth also variously known as soil/dirt/sand/clay/loam etc . . . and then later Miracle-it-Grows made a mockery of the term soil and this begat hydroponics (just so no one tries to take this literally and accuse the bird’s of spreading misinformation - yes we know miracle grow soil didn’t cause the rise of hydroponics - but it makes a nice introduction story!). . . and thus began the three_little_birds efforts to bring real dirt back into indoor farming . . .
Farmer's don't throw out their topsoil after a crop, so we've always found the suggestion that folks dispose of soil after every indoor crop kind of ridiculous . . . we set out to disprove those folks who said that soil needed to be disposed of and in the process we've found our soil actually grew more fertile with time and some effort!
what will it take to use your soil over and over . . . time . . .dedication . . .a willingness (and ability) to do a lil physical labor . . . our process will involve some observation on the soil makers part . . .and you'll need to do a lil thinking . . . you will have to avoid salt and chemical ferts at all costs and build a collection of boxes or containers of different organic amendments sitting around on shelves . . .
we started with a standard soil mix pretty much like everyone else . . . when choosing a beginning organic soil we look for products like FoxFarm OceanForest or Mushroom Compost (at least the "shroom post" we find) that are often more "tree fiber" based rather than built with peat moss . . . we prefer these as our primary component over soil mixes like ProMix or SunshineMix that are mostly peat which is more acidic . . . if you plan on reusing your soil just once or twice then the peat mixes will probably work fine . . . but if you hope to use your soil endlessly like at the bird's nest then we'd say not more than 50% peat based mix to 50% tree fiber mix . . .
for the first grow prior to recycling we used a more expensive potting soil mix like the FoxFarm and then mixed in about 1/3 cheap peat based organic soil mix that was mostly peat, perlite and sand . . . we grew a couple small crops from start to finish using Earth Juice organic fertilizers and dumped all the used soil in a big 50 gallon Rubbermaid tub (w/ lid) . . . when the tub was about 4/5ths full (appx. 40 gallons of used soil) we stopped adding soil and went to work . . .
that first pass on soil remixing we added bone meal, blood meal, kelp meal and dolomite lime to the used soil . . . to be quite honest our proportions have changed a lil bit over time but it was likely something in the range of 2 cups blood meal, 4 cups kelp meal, 4 cups bone meal and 4 cups of dolomite lime . . . we mixed all those ingredients into our soil and moistened and waited a month until it was time for more soil . . .
For our next grow we would have mixed in about equal proportions of fresh and remixed amended soil . . . about ½ used soil with ½ fresh new soil and perhaps a lil added perlite to make sure the soil stayed light . . . and ran that through another grow using moderate feedings with the Earth Juice ferts . . . again we collected the used soil as it finished in the 50 gallon Rubbermaid bins . . .
at this point we started using our soil as an indoor compost bin for indoor garden waste. . . we really didn’t want to dispose of our fan leaf and stem trim in the trash . . . so we began chopping our indoor garden wastes and mixing them into our soil . . . we had quite a build up of trim trash at one time and to be honest it didn’t break down that fast this first time . . . we turned the compost in that bin several times in the next couple of months to get that trim to decompose . . . it seemed like the stems never would break down . . . finally they kind of decomposed and we mixed that “composted” soil in with our normal remixed soil and thus our composted soil methods began . . .
the plants grown in that remixed soil containing compost were very strong . . . stronger still than their sisters in fresh soil and with our 50/50 fresh and used soil remix . . . so we started including some composted soil in with every mix . . . we stopped adding any fresh soil to the mix about this time as well . . . in honesty we’d run short on soil for the moment and decided to try 100% remix . . . it worked . . . and it worked well . . .
Now let’s fast forward to a day when all of the soil remix bins had just been freshly mixed and were still stabilizing . . . we were ready to move another container to our bloom room and there was plenty of our compost on hand but no soil ready . . . now if a person reads Ed Rosenthal or Cervantes they will usually see warnings against trying to grow plants in homemade compost . . . we never quite understood this since compost is great as a top dressing in the normal garden outdoors and such . . . but we were still concerned that the “experts” knew something we didn’t . . .
we filled a 2'x3' container w/ compost and transplanted the plants in simply hoping for the best . . . turns out there was no reason to worry at all . . . they grew HUGE . . . the next time we had enough indoor compost to experiment in this way again we did . . . and the results were again beyond our normal experience . . . a third “bumper crop” from pure compost convinced us that there were secrets in the soil . . .
this post is closing in on two pages in length on the word processor now . . . so it’d be best to come back with one more post describing the current state of ongoing soil recycling project at the bird’s nest . . . in concept and practice it’s actually quite simple . . . we add organic matter as available to our soil . . . amend with nutrient goodies . . . and treat it all with great care and love . . .
we’ll be back to share the love and our current soil methods . . . the secret may very well be in the soil . . . but the bird’s won’t be keeping any secrets ourselves on how our methods work . . .
wow thats alot to read lol but all great info.
V
vonforne
VictoryGardener said:
That's a great idea! It also adds more benifical bacteria to the compost pile faster. As the compost pile heats up it will kill any pathogens and insects you might have picked up from the last crop. Any nurtient value that was left over also will be added to the new compost piles NPK value.
VG, about how much old soil do you have to add each time?
G
Guest
After a season's use, my dirt gets dumped into one of many pots sitting out side of my house and spends a season growing nothing and just sitting and being washed out by rain. When I want to re-use it I just amend nutrient values and it's good. I do have to go around once a week or so and pull weeds out. Never any problems for and I do this with ALL my potted plant's soil not just my annuals - tropical's soil is cycled as well. Only time I buy soil is if I just don't have enough. Also, after it rains; if it occurs to me I will throw worms into the pots but i never run across them again so I can't say how much benefit they have but the point is i do very little to cycle soil.
J.
J.
J.
J.
V
vonforne
If there is no organic matter for the worms to eat they will just move on. You could add bedding (paper products)and an organic source of food (house hold food scraps)for them and get them to rent longer. They old soil could be used also to provide bacterias to a compost pile quicker. You are using a passive way now but you could utilize the remaining nutrients in the soil. And then be able to use fresh compost with added nutrients.
G
Guest
I understand what you're saying but on average I have more soil than I know what to do with laying around. I also have a "compost" pile that I throw soil on too and turn it when I remember. In general I use a passive kind of system because I just have so many plants that I can let the soil do its own thing in its own time without being in any danger of really running out. Sometimes I do get new fresh soil just because I have credit somewhere but I don't need it. I'm not really a good example for recycling soil because I pretty much let nature do it the way it does without help anyway.
J.
J.
quadracer
Active member
Pyrex said:
I pretty much do the same thing, although sometimes I don't wait a full season. Worms make a great addition, when the soil is being grown in or not. The benefits while the plant is growing is obvious, but when there is nothing growing the worms will munch on old root mass.
The next cycle there is still some root mass, but I leave it in there for worm food and a nice soil aerator as well.
I am still using soil that has been cycled over 5 times, and it still supports a healthy environment both above and below the ground.
I've been reusing the same MG potting soil since I started growing in 2003-2004. After the plants are cut, I empty my post into a bag mix it up and them toss in the fan leaves and any trim I don;t plan on smoking. I rarely let is set for more than a day or two before I start up again. If I'm light some dirt or figure to add a few more plants this time around I dump the dirt back in the bag and add more potting soil. I always get decent plants and had any issues.
In June or July, when ever this grow is done, I will move my box and sweep up the debris, dirt/plant material that's on the flood. There are a few of those things mentioned in the garage I could add next time. Bone meal for sure, and I have a fish tank with plenty of nitrates and gravel I can toss in the mix for nitrogen.
I've already snatched up 6 liters of soil from a large flower pot that was used for sunflowers last summer, and have since refilled that giant container with soils from a few house plants the cats ripped into. Turned it over a few weeks ago while my mom was on a cruise.
There's plenty of good stuff around here.
Best Of Luck!
In June or July, when ever this grow is done, I will move my box and sweep up the debris, dirt/plant material that's on the flood. There are a few of those things mentioned in the garage I could add next time. Bone meal for sure, and I have a fish tank with plenty of nitrates and gravel I can toss in the mix for nitrogen.
I've already snatched up 6 liters of soil from a large flower pot that was used for sunflowers last summer, and have since refilled that giant container with soils from a few house plants the cats ripped into. Turned it over a few weeks ago while my mom was on a cruise.
There's plenty of good stuff around here.
Best Of Luck!
Last edited:
Organic*Shaman
Member
Do I have to put a lid on and/or drill holes in my composting container or is it fine without a lid?
V
vonforne
I use the type with folding lids and no holes. You could drill holes in it if you like.
V
V
Organic*Shaman
Member
has anyone ever used or heard of anyone using yerba matte either in composting or as a soil ammendment/additive type thing. It has a lot of vitimins/minerals/amino acids. I think I am going to give it a try. Will give word if it is successful.
V
vonforne
You must be from South America?
Interesting. Keep us posted on the progress of this one.
V
G
Guest
Nice thread vonforne, please bear in mind that most farmers rotate their crops & vary rarely grow two consequetive crops of the same type, for the simple reason "disease buildup". I suppose that it would not be so bad if you baked the soil to kill disease, but the range of nutrients needs to be replaced.
Farmers who grow consequetive crops of wheat for instance know that the second years crop needs to be a very disease resistant strain, & will rarely yield as well as the first. Third crops can be a failure. Strangely eneough after 7 years trials indicate that yields start to improve.Nitrogen is easily leached from the soil by rain & weed needs a lot of it. Potash leaches more readily than phosphates, these need to be replaced, soil needs to be fed with more nutrients than the previouse crop takes out. That means adding compost well rotted during the winter. Make a good heap with sides so that you can heap it high. The higher the better, it will heat up, if you can get it to 80dgrees then any weed seeds or disease will break down. Keep turning the top to the bottom, so all of it rots down. Dont add your compost to the soil mix too early, heavy rainfall will leach out nitrogen, soil from the previous crop needs to be inverted to a depth of at least 6-8 inches, 12 inches would be better.Add your compost then. Keep some back, the black fine well rotted stuff for top dressing half way through the season. If you want to use your soil from the previous year you are taking chances, personally I would never dream of this.
Hope this helps.
cheers
Farmers who grow consequetive crops of wheat for instance know that the second years crop needs to be a very disease resistant strain, & will rarely yield as well as the first. Third crops can be a failure. Strangely eneough after 7 years trials indicate that yields start to improve.Nitrogen is easily leached from the soil by rain & weed needs a lot of it. Potash leaches more readily than phosphates, these need to be replaced, soil needs to be fed with more nutrients than the previouse crop takes out. That means adding compost well rotted during the winter. Make a good heap with sides so that you can heap it high. The higher the better, it will heat up, if you can get it to 80dgrees then any weed seeds or disease will break down. Keep turning the top to the bottom, so all of it rots down. Dont add your compost to the soil mix too early, heavy rainfall will leach out nitrogen, soil from the previous crop needs to be inverted to a depth of at least 6-8 inches, 12 inches would be better.Add your compost then. Keep some back, the black fine well rotted stuff for top dressing half way through the season. If you want to use your soil from the previous year you are taking chances, personally I would never dream of this.
Hope this helps.
cheers
V
vonforne
Hey, Farmaz2, Welcome and thanks for the tips.
I was talking about recycling an indoor crop of soil indoors. Basically, letting it sit with added nutrients to begin decomposition.
I do remember my grandad rotating crops though.
and about the compost temps. I have always tried to keep them at 110 to 160 to kill all pathogens and weed seeds with in the compost. Also it helps speed the process a bit. We have a member that is well versed in composting. 3BM, he is around here some where from time to time. You would enjoy talking to him.
Anyway, thanks for th tips...all are welcome. come on back when ever you have the time.
V
I was talking about recycling an indoor crop of soil indoors. Basically, letting it sit with added nutrients to begin decomposition.
I do remember my grandad rotating crops though.
and about the compost temps. I have always tried to keep them at 110 to 160 to kill all pathogens and weed seeds with in the compost. Also it helps speed the process a bit. We have a member that is well versed in composting. 3BM, he is around here some where from time to time. You would enjoy talking to him.
Anyway, thanks for th tips...all are welcome. come on back when ever you have the time.
V
G
Guest
cheers Vonforne, heres a top tip, grow some comfrey & clover in your garden, if you grow it next to the lawn on a level suface you could "harvest" it with a lawnmower, put a bucketfull or two in your waterbut, wait a week or 2, use the water to irrigate your plants. Clover contains high levels of nitrogen, comfrey has all types of beneficial elements plus the ability to keep insects & disease down. Can be used as a foliar feed as well. Friend of mine swore by it.
cheers.
cheers.
