The Official MMA Discussion

[Greyskull]

whenever i see a 'myspace' reference i think of one of my favorite blogs... the myspace toolbox
http://www.uncoached.com/category/the-myspace-toolbox/

Lesnar beat his ass brutally, fair and square. classless or not, dude took care of business like he meant it. maybe mir should have released that leg lock when the ref told him to after the first fight....

hopefully LvM III will be a 'better' fight than the first 2.

 

[EvilRaven1031]

hey catmanrob,

its cool that you know Mir, but i want you to point out where Lesnar has failed a drug test. Im not saying it isnt possible that hes juicing, but people have been throwing that in his face for his entire (yes even his collegiate wrestling) career. As far as i know Lesnar has never tested positive for roids.

Mir got beat. Period. on the ground even! he was unable to escape and he was unable to create the space he needed to attempt submissions. every time he got punched in the face his melon rattled between Brock's fist and the canvas.

while i dont consider myself Brock's biggest fan....i know a beating when i see one.

 

[NateDizz]

Nate , mayby im representing my point badly, perhaps problem is the wrong word for my point,, as always i enjoy reading your posts about UFC whether i agree with what you say or not..

the problem as I refer to means to ME ..who the hell is gonna give the guys holding the belts a close fight ?? help me out here Nate.

can ya post up by wieght division who YOU think could give each belt holder a good run..

also I would like your opinion on Anthony Johnson as a UFC fighter if ya dont mind..

thanx

Thanks for the reply Vegan. I must have misunderstood your original post. I can understand your personal frustration in having so many dominant champs all at once and I'm sure alot of people share your opinion, I just though you meant the UFC as a company was in a problematic situation and not happy with UFC 100 and the state of the company (which as I said before couldn't be more wrong).

However, you shouldn't be so upset about the current stable of champions being so dominant right now. It's very hard to deny that the current line-up of champions is the strongest across the board in the history of the promotion and it may seem to some like there are no competitive fights for any of them right now and all we're gonna be seeing for awhile are cakewalks by each of them, but I don't think that's the case at all.

The thing with MMA is that there are so many variables that allow anyone to win on any given night. Upsets happen in MMA so often that it's hard to keep track. All it takes is one off night, one small injury, one "lucky" punch as some might call it, or one split-second slip-up to allow the underdog to slip in that slick submission and finish the night in dramatic fashion. Anybody can win and everyone can lose and that makes the sport very unpredictable and exciting. That's also the reason why there are so few perfect records in MMA and it's so rare that a champion holds their belt for more than a couple title defenses. The "better" fighter doesn't always win.

I can't remember the exact number, but in the history of the UFC the average number of title defenses that champions have made is somewhere around 1.15 times. Most champions don't even make two defenses before relinquishing their spot as king of the division. Maybe the current set of champions will be the exception but if history is any indication - it's not likely that all of these guys are gonna be champions for as long as you might think. I'm not saying they won't make two defenses (some have already exceeded that) I'm just saying all of these guys probably won't make 10 succesful defenses and still be the same line-up of champions for years to come.

You asked me to break down each division into who I think are people capable of giving the current champions a run for their money and I typed up a long write-up for each division then lost most of it. It's a topic I could write a book on (and I had a very lengthy essay going for my post) but I'm just too frustrated to re-type such a long reply again right now. I'm sorry, but I'll try to cover it in pieces over the next little while.

I do think that there are alot of capable challengers both inside and outside of the UFC though. Also, I feel there are alot of prospects out there who may not be able to beat them today, but after another couple of fights will be able to challenge for their respective belts as well. There's alot of new and young talent coming up in MMA right now and I'm very excited about the future of every division right now and you should be too. People are starting to train MMA at a young age now rather than a single discipline to which they can adapt to MMA and the competitors are only going to get better over time.

As for Anthony Johnson, I think he's a very promising prospect at 170 and I'd love to see him find his way into contention eventually. It's too bad that he got injured and had to pull out of his bout with Matt Brown, a fight I think was all his. His loss against Kevin Burns was horrible and I think he should have got the W via disqualification. A very nasty injury and I'm glad he's recovered okay. His striking is very dangerous but I still think he needs to get some more fights and experience under his belt before he can be considered a serious threat. I'd love to see him fight Marcus Davis in the near future.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Maybe UFC can sign Big Show to come in and fight the roid freak.

 

[HookaHittaH]

I was out of town and didnt watch UFC 100 till a few days ago. Overall a good card. Nice to see "the count" down for the count ... haha. Hendo is a beast. Brock deff needs to cut the WWE shit down a lil bit. I dont know how they'll get to fight him next though. Maybe they should make Anderson Silva get in there with him.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Machida and A Silva would be great. I'd also like to see Nightmare Sanchez move to welter and get a shot at GSP.

 

[EvilRaven1031]

you guys and these weight class shifts! since a few fighters have been jumping around weight classes lately, ive been noticing a trend in the MMA world. Its tough enough for these guys to cut weight and find a weight class in which they can both win and showcase their skills. Weight classes are in place for a reason! the next superfight that people are gonna be talking about is Faber vs Fedor. Come on people....

Granted, some of these guys have the ability to fight at two...possibly even three weight classes, but why as a fan would you want that? The weight cutting process puts all kinds of strain on a fighters body. So much so that some fighters need to receive fluids intravenously only moments after they step off the scale.

I know you guys and gals want to see fights, and i know you like your favorite fighters. Dont you want to be able to see them fight a few years down the road? Aside from dehydration, theres a host of other conditions that could arise from a weight cut gone wrong. I, for one dont want to see a fighter's career be put in jeopardy for the sake of a superfight. (that in all actuality doesnt mean a whole lot anyway)

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Nah man. I wanna see em rip each others' heads off just like Celebrity Death Match and get hauled away in the meat wagon. But seriously folks..........

It's not uncommon for fighters to gain weight as they age. GSP is arguably a good candidate to move up a notch. He might even give A Silva a good fight. EvilRaven makes a good point though. I for one wasn't thrilled to see Hendo drop ~20 and face Silva. I rather Silva put on 20 and take his chances.

 

[EvilRaven1031]

heres a link for all of you talking about roids

http://mmamania.com/2009/07/17/ufc-...e-back-clean-from-the-nsac-for-lesnar-vs-mir/

 

[catmanrob]

raven everyones known about lesnars roid use, college is a joke when it comes to testing athletes, its purley selective.... Lesnar kicked his ass no doubt but if there was a permanent testing system I guarantee 75% of UFC fighters would test positive, including friends of mine...the whole things a mess....as far as the lesnar/mir trilogy its 1-1, of course a beating is what frank would have taken, if lesnar was to win, and a submission would be franks way, so you really can take it either way, he didnt create enough space, he got pressed up against the cage and wasnt able to move, cage tactics 101..

 

[EvilRaven1031]

and in doing all that catman, he was pretty much gift-wrapping his wrist for an americana attempt.

The UFC doenst handle testing of the athletes (except for one of their european promotions that happened not too far back), But the NSAC has implemented an out-of-competition testing policy. Meaning that even if a fighter doesnt have a fight lined up they are still able to be tested. This is to try to catch anyone that might be "cycling" on banned substances.

While i agree that steroids are used far more than we know...you gotta give a guy the benefit of the doubt here. Just like other pro sports. Its not like Brock has gotten any bigger or anything.

If you want to take a look at "questionable growth" take a look at a timeline of Alistair Overeem.

Im not going to be the one to accuse anyone, but come on man

 

[catmanrob]

thats a given, lol....I still think stephen neal would fuck lesnar up, hed just need a little hand to hand training, what do you think??

 

[EvilRaven1031]

well its tough to tell from a ten year old collegiate wrestling vid. we would need to see Neal in the cage (any cage) to get a better judgment of his abilities. He would need one helluva chin and a bottomless gas tank.

As far as people that could give Brock a run for his money...Shane Carwin is at the top of my list. There are some points that need to be taken into consideration with this matchup:
1) Carwin needs to get past Cain Velazquez first
2) Carwin got rocked by a punch in his fight with Gonzaga
3) Carwin hasnt been in deep water in his fights (not that Brock has, but it brings up the cardio question)
4) From what i saw at UFC 100, Brock is at very fucking least learning to identify incoming submissions and counter them.....maybe even with a submission of his own. (i was almost praying for him to lock in that Americana or a keylock or something...it was right there.

Just an FYI, this convo is making me seem like more of a Brock Lesnar fan than i believe i really am. I just calls 'em like i sees 'em.

 

[catmanrob]

if brock wasnt good we wouldnt be talking about em.....Stephen neal was unbelievable in college and totally destroyed lesnar when they wrestled, lesnar was a sophmore at the time but, kerry woods from Penn was real comp, not that POS from jersey allah OK. st. that lesnar wrestled for the title..Im thinking the GSP/Silva fight is getting ready, I just hope theres enough in MMA after that fight...

 

[EvilRaven1031]

enough in MMA?!?!?! PLEASE tell me you're kidding there.

there will be plenty of MMA after a superfight between GSP and Anderson. Just today i had read that Tito and Dana made up, so theres the chance of Tito getting another chance in the UFC. Theres also the Fedor issue. Affliction's MMA promotion seems to be getting steadily flushed away and the rumor mill is abuzz saying they wont survive their next event. That makes sense to me, but it also raises the question of where Affliction's stable of fighters will go once the t-shirt well dries up. The way i see it is they have two (maybe three) choices; A) the UFC, B) Strikeforce or a very iffy C) Japan. The UFC has already stated that they want Fedor (if for nothing else but to shut up the fans) and they have also come out and said that they would welcome Barnett back to the UFC if he is successful in defeating Fedor.

I can go on and on about potential prospects...

Do you really think that MMA would be boring after a GSP/A. Silva superfight???

 

[catmanrob]

I just think there will be a point of complacency after words, weve been waiting for this for years, pretty much there has to be a point where growth is going to slow.....dont get me wrong I dont want this to happpen at all, but seriously if anderson knocks out GSP in the 1st, what are we going to wait for then? There has to be the conversational part of any sport otherwise its just automatic thought, Id like to see Machita fight either of the two, but I cant stand his style....its so fucking queer...

 

[EvilRaven1031]

the way i see it is as such....

Silva has a fight coming up against Forrest and IMO GSP has at least two fights before hes cleaned out the division at 170 (Fitch deserves a rematch and i think GSP should fight Rumble Johnson if Rumble can get past Kampmann)

So with that out of the way, the superfight wont happen until next year. By that time we will have found out about Affliction's possible demise, found out which fighters the UFC has decided to pick up and will be able to theorize about a slew of new matchups.

 

[dbuzz]

Machida and A Silva would be great. I'd also like to see Nightmare Sanchez move to welter and get a shot at GSP.

he already had his chance in welterweight and got beat by koscheck and fitch. whom both got destroyed by gsp. sanchez vs penn would be a better fight, and that probably happen this yr.

can't wait for silva vs griffin and fedor vs barnett. fedor vs barnett is huuuuge, it's like ali vs frazer.

 

[EvilRaven1031]

fedor vs barnett is huuuuge, it's like ali vs frazer.

Now now buddy.... we all know its not gonna be like that. Possibly like Tyson v Holyfield, though i expect Fedor wont go for Barnett's ear.

 

[Mrs.Babba]

I keep seein the previews for the Carano/Cyborg fight!! whoo hooo!!! should be a good one...we will be out of town and will tape it cuz Im not sure if we will be around to catch it!
I havent seen Cyborg fight before but Carano's a terror, so it should be a good fight!!