-
Happy Birthday ICMag! Been 20 years since Gypsy Nirvana created the forum! We are celebrating with a 4/20 Giveaway and by launching a new Patreon tier called "420club". You can read more here.
-
Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!
The Impeachment Of Trump
- Thread starter igrowone
- Start date
- Status
Raising taxes should definitely help with that.lol You guys blow my mind
F
Frylock
I think raising minimum wages from being peanuts will have much more effect on lower income earners than whatever minor tax differences that would be incurred by those low income earners.... most of the increased taxes will be aimed at much higher earners....
How is someone supposed to manage on $7.25 an hour??
Last edited:
Implying minimum wage jobs are a career choice... top bantz
While I appreciate your valiant efforts to teach the sheep, unfortunately unless your post is drumpf is bad, it just gets glossed over. But yeah, question becomes WHEN mueller knew mifsud isn’t a Russian. Prior to ‘18 midterms? Was SC stalled to impact ‘18?
Oh and don’t leave out Gen. Flynn was working for the DIA on his trip to Russia. Which explains why his ‘guilty’ plea had been challenged by the courts. Flynn eating rubber bullets to protect the ‘integrity’ of SC and prevent accusations of ‘obstruction’. #Patriot
F
Frylock
How did i imply that?
It was in in response to PF and the post above his stating 40% of adult Americans don't have $400 for an emergency.
Besides that, it is an unfortunate reality for a lot of folks.... someone has to do those jobs....
The rich have used their massive wealth to destroy antitrust laws which protected small business and the middle class. With guys like trump the rich made sure that the poor working stiffs would pay all the taxes that cover airports for their private jets and all the other services that they enjoy. Don't think there are pot holes in their runways like there are in your roads.
Now he had a nice talk with Putin who told him there was no collusion.
Now he had a nice talk with Putin who told him there was no collusion.
The localities that have instituted a 15$ minimum wage, have lead to reduced hours. So, yes you make more per hour, but you become a part-time employee with no benefits.
Raising the minimum wage, only leads to higher rates of unemployment for young people, and low skilled workers. You're forgetting that if you increase labor costs, you increase prices. So, you might make more. That increase will be negated by the increased cost of every product.
A higher minimum wage decreases the purchasing power of said money. So, people who make more than minimum wage, now get less value for their own employment. Its essentially a pay cut for everyone who makes more than minimum wage.
You want to decrease poverty, I instill a culture that values hard work, and personal responsibility. I work with a bunch of minimum wage workers. I don't make minimum wage, not even close. I make more than half the leads I work with, who have been with the company for close to a decade. They don't know that though. My manager is a coward, who secretly has given me 4 raises in less than 2 years. He's not smart enough to know that if they knew how much I made, they might work harder. Instead they fuck around most of the day. I tell my supervisor to get off his ass and work, daily. Lazy entitled millenials who got a participation trophy every time they lost. Now all they do is lose.
The poverty you rail against is the direct consequence of a society that has decided, not to hold people accountable for their failures. Now, failure is what they have become.
Minimum wage is a stepping stone, learn how to work hard, how to be on time, how to push yourself to be more productive. It teaches people who are willing to learn, sadly most now refuse to learn the skills to progress.
Also, stop the steady flow of low-skilled workers from south of the border, and you will see wages rise naturally. I have worked with many illegals, most have my respect. They are willing to do jobs, no entitled millenial will even consider. In America poverty is a cultural problem. We have a lazy entitled culture. This is why Bernie "free stuff" Sanders is popular with young people.
If no one took minimum wage jobs McDs would have no choice but to raise wages.
Have you taken a look at the latest employment numbers? I would venture to guess you haven't. They are phenomenal. Wages are up across the board. We essentially at full employment.
I agree we all should pay taxes. No Bezos the bozo shouldn't make billions tax free. As long as we have the welfare that is our tax system, wealthy people will continue to use deductions and loopholes to pay essentially no income tax. Raising my taxes does nothing to solve the problem, well it does make you feel self-righteous, and important, for giving the government the power to take more money from every hardworking American. I am more in support of a consumption tax replacing the income tax. Or at least a flat 20% on every American making more than 50k a year.
You glorify the mixed economy's of Europe and Scandinavia, you refuse to recognize that they pay 40-50% income tax, and a huge VAT tax. In exchange for their free stuff. Oh, and those taxes start at around 50 k a year. I am not willing to give up half my income for crappy healthcare, at the whim of a unaccountable unelected bureaucrat.
It's really about going back to the system that prospered prior to the system that created demise. Pre Regan, the rich paid taxes that would have the nuts screaming bloody murder today. It is a small price to pay for a system that provides such great prosperity for all.
Packer, I have personally dug down deep and paid those taxes. For college education, medical and a decent retirement, it is a pretty good deal. It is a goal that is unobtainable for most Americans no matter how much they save. I paid more than 50% and that's just half the story because there are huge consumption taxes especially on "luxury" items. Try to imagine having a medical problem and cost is not a factor in how you get treated.
You are right about the bureaucrats. In the US, if we paid for all of this service, the bureaucrats would steal all the money, the rich would get richer and we would be left with nothing. Prime example - Social Security.
Thank you trump.
Packer, I have personally dug down deep and paid those taxes. For college education, medical and a decent retirement, it is a pretty good deal. It is a goal that is unobtainable for most Americans no matter how much they save. I paid more than 50% and that's just half the story because there are huge consumption taxes especially on "luxury" items. Try to imagine having a medical problem and cost is not a factor in how you get treated.
You are right about the bureaucrats. In the US, if we paid for all of this service, the bureaucrats would steal all the money, the rich would get richer and we would be left with nothing. Prime example - Social Security.
Thank you trump.
If we didn't have illegal aliens driving down wages, your argument would have some validity. If my family lived under a system like that, we would be homeless, or living with family. I wouldn't have 2 vehicles, and a fairly nice home. My kids would never know anything outside of the village they were born in.
It should be an income tax, or a consumption tax not both. You do realize these countries are scaling back the benefits you claim are so wonderful.
Do you think they are going to reduce the taxes also? Or just reduce the benefits?
While I do think higher education can be a good thing. Not everyone wants to wear a suit an tie every day and spend their lives behind a desk. When you use taxes to provide free college, the middle and lower class are subsidizing the upper income classes. This is my main contention with Liz Warren's eliminating student loan debt. The poor pay for the wealthy. If I don't go to college, I get to pay for some one who did. I know you are big on college, which is a good thing (outside of activist studies, and other useless majors). We still need construction workers who are some of the most skilled workers we have. I know carpenters who do math that would boggle the mind of many engineers. I know plasterers who know how sand , lime, and cement will react to differing conditions better than the chemist who created it. I know electricians who make most engineers look like dolts. These people don't have degrees but are integral part of the economy, and have useful skills. Why should they pay for entitled idiots who want to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to learn about lesbian dance theory, or liberal arts.
Trump had nothing to do with Congress raiding Social Security. The fact is Social Security is an insurance against old age. Unless we start having many more children Social Security is doomed. As your generation starts to retire, it will collapse. This is a dickhead thing to say, but it's true. The vast majority of the problems we have in America are the responsibility of the Baby Boomers. Time to sit back and let generation x fix the shot you guys fucked up. Yes, you are going to lose the money you put into social security. That's not our fault, it's yours. You want a retirement, you should have had more children, and raised them to be hard working responsible people. Instead you raised a generation of pussies.
Hard times create strong people who create good times, good times
create weak people who create hard times. Its cyclical.
Or the fact social security has always been a SUPPLEMENTAL income and not a retirement plan but yes give us more and tax the riiiiiich you rayciss
M
Mr D
A more educated society is likely more productive, safer, and prosperous. But to demand that the entire country invest in people who refuse to invest in themselves first. That’s absolutely ludicrous… and almost guarantees a bad investment.
Free education is already available from websites like https://www.edx.org/ or your local library. Construction trade unions offer a free education which pays you while you learn. Many trade union apprenticeship programs are affiliated with local colleges and universities. So upon completion of the apprenticeship you graduate with a college degree and a useful trade.
A university degree can cost you an enormous amount of money , an education can be completely free. Every time I hear someone whining about wanting free university education, I always ask them how many online courses they’ve taken. How many books have they read?
Free education is already available from websites like https://www.edx.org/ or your local library. Construction trade unions offer a free education which pays you while you learn. Many trade union apprenticeship programs are affiliated with local colleges and universities. So upon completion of the apprenticeship you graduate with a college degree and a useful trade.
A university degree can cost you an enormous amount of money , an education can be completely free. Every time I hear someone whining about wanting free university education, I always ask them how many online courses they’ve taken. How many books have they read?
"If we didn't have illegal aliens driving down wages, your argument would have some validity."
Packer, Who do you think did all the construction in the south west and who made all the money ? Who planted and harvested all the food in the San Joaquin Valley and who made all the money? Your argument is nonsense.
"It should be an income tax, or a consumption tax not both. You do realize these countries are scaling back the benefits you claim are so wonderful"
Nonsense. Only true to those listening to right wing propaganda.
Nobody is scaling back.
"I know carpenters who do math that would boggle the mind of many engineers."
Shit yeah, Why would I want to be designing solar systems that could providing clean energy to the world when I could be digging ditches?
We can't afford to waste smart people.
"I know plasterers who know how sand , lime, and cement will react to differing conditions better than the chemist who created it."
Doubtful.
"the middle and lower class are subsidizing the upper income classes"
That is the fact Jack. You said it!
" I know electricians who make most engineers look like dolts."
Yeah right, All those engineers wish they could be pulling wires too.
"Trump had nothing to do with Congress raiding Social Security."
Uhh, If trump had the nations best interest at heart, he would have put money into Social Security instead of a big fat tax break for himself and his donors. A trillion dollars would have gone a long way to fixing social security, but the rich needed it, didn't they?
You drink allot of KoolAide.
"You want a retirement, you should have had more children, and raised them to be hard working responsible people. Instead you raised a generation of pussies."
At least some people know when they're getting screwed. You have no clue.
"hundreds of thousands of dollars to learn about lesbian dance theory"
WTF?
Packer, Who do you think did all the construction in the south west and who made all the money ? Who planted and harvested all the food in the San Joaquin Valley and who made all the money? Your argument is nonsense.
"It should be an income tax, or a consumption tax not both. You do realize these countries are scaling back the benefits you claim are so wonderful"
Nonsense. Only true to those listening to right wing propaganda.
Nobody is scaling back.
"I know carpenters who do math that would boggle the mind of many engineers."
Shit yeah, Why would I want to be designing solar systems that could providing clean energy to the world when I could be digging ditches?
We can't afford to waste smart people.
"I know plasterers who know how sand , lime, and cement will react to differing conditions better than the chemist who created it."
Doubtful.
"the middle and lower class are subsidizing the upper income classes"
That is the fact Jack. You said it!
" I know electricians who make most engineers look like dolts."
Yeah right, All those engineers wish they could be pulling wires too.
"Trump had nothing to do with Congress raiding Social Security."
Uhh, If trump had the nations best interest at heart, he would have put money into Social Security instead of a big fat tax break for himself and his donors. A trillion dollars would have gone a long way to fixing social security, but the rich needed it, didn't they?
You drink allot of KoolAide.
"You want a retirement, you should have had more children, and raised them to be hard working responsible people. Instead you raised a generation of pussies."
At least some people know when they're getting screwed. You have no clue.
"hundreds of thousands of dollars to learn about lesbian dance theory"
WTF?
I was one of those people building in the southwest. I sure did get screwed by loser baby boomers like you. Now, you want to screw me and my family by forcing insane taxes on me, so you can live the high life on my dime. Quit being a greedy fuck, and accept the consequences of your generations complete and utter failure. So, my family should subsidize your retirement. Congress is 100% responsible for the decimation of the social security fund. Both parties . You're such a mindless partisan hack, that you want to punish me and my family, because your generation is a complete failure.
What will be their for me when your idiotic redistributionist ideas fail?
So, I get to pay 50% income tax so you can be comfortable in retirement?
Of course, when I get to retirement, nothing will be their for me.
I get to subsidize your loserdom, with zero ROI. Nope we just get to slave away for peanuts, so your generation doesn't struggle, after a lifetime of failure to plan for the future.
Good God you are so generous. You are willing to bankrupt me and my children, so you can be comfortable. You are just an amazingly thoughtful and selfless person.(Sarcasm, just because it usually goes over your head)
Listen buddy, Being ignorant is your choice. Don't try to choose it for others. Your brilliant tradesmen friends are in fact victims of ignorant propaganda driven individuals like yourself. It's a shame when intelligent people don't get a chance to live their life to their potential because some arrogant, undereducated, low intelligence, sombitches think that their destiny is good enough for others. Some of these people could be solving the great problems of the world but they are standing there watching plaster harden because of people like you.
Your complete lack of self awareness is unbelievable. You completely refuse to recognize that in fact you are demanding my generation and future generations subsidize your generations failure.
By the way no plasterer has ever sat and watched plaster dry. They would be fired on the spot. Especially on a union crew. You think people are lazy like you, not in the trades. You don't walk, you run.
I think providing the building of America is quite an honorable endeavor. I find it appalling that you minimize the contribution of hard labor, in the building of this country, and the world in general.
It would suck ass if you didn't have a house to live in in those New England winters.
We could actually agree on a few things, but you are determined to believe that I have a responsibility to make your life better. But you have no responsibility to fix your own life. I am not the one with my hand out, you are.
M
Mr D
It's the false belief that the 6% of the workforce earning $100K + a year will magically expand if everyone has a college degree. Or perhaps a lack of understanding of how many people it takes to clean the bathrooms, take out the trash and hundreds of other low paying jobs to keep the machine going.
Raise my taxes 5% or less, instead of paying $5k-$10k on a private premium? Sounds good.
Implying most people have a choice...... 50% of US workers made $31,561.49 or less in 2017.
"Last year the typical working family paid an average of $5,277 in premiums to private health
insurance companies. Under this option, a typical family of four earning $50,000, after taking
the standard deduction, would pay a 4 percent income-based premium to fund Medicare for All –
just $844 a year – saving that family over $4,400 a year. Because of the standard deduction,
families of four making less than $29,000 a year would not pay this premium."
How would you pay more when it says a family of 4 making $50k a year would pay $844 a year for health insurance?
Looks like you'd go from a 33% marginal rate to a 39% marginal rate. That's the marginal rate though, the on paper rate, most people would have an effective rate that is lower than that. 2016 Bernie campaign numbers would put someone making $260k/yr, paying a $5k premium, paying 39% marginal rate would have an effective rate closer to 27%
i think i just covered this in the previous comment about marginal vs effective tax rates.
From the link you posted... Bernie's options for m4a:
"7.5 percent income-based premium paid by employers
Revenue raised: $3.9 trillion over ten years.
Businesses would save over $9,000 in health care costs for the average employee under this option"
"4 percent income-based premium paid by households
Revenue raised: $3.5 trillion over ten years.
The typical middle class family would save over $4,400 under this plan."
"Savings from Health Tax Expenditures
Revenue raised: $4.2 trillion over ten years.
Several tax breaks that subsidize health care would become obsolete and disappear under
Medicare for All."
and the rest of that link is literally ways to tax the rich and people like bezos and amazon more lol.
M4A polls at 70% and Bernie is the most popular politician in the country, as well as the Democratic frontrunner for 2020. His platform was called fringe in 2016 now most democratic candidates claim they are for it.
- Status
