The Haze discussion thread

[Budz Lightyear]

RIP Franco. Thanks for the contribution

 

[chusss]

Here is a very interesting genetic study. It seems to prove that nevils haze plants are primordial come from se asia and represent a genotype so rare and different it constitutes a seperate clade from nld and wld known as se asian nld. A phylogenetic neighbor joining graph compares alleles encoding for different allozymes and their frequency. The nevil haze used is the greenhouse clone which is available as s1 feminized but appears to be a valid f1 of a52a x c

Where did u get that graphic from?

 

[harvestreaper]

​ 19 weeks?? flys by lol

 

[Piff_cat]

Here is the link for the graphic and for the full article from 2015 by sawler. There is also another article by lynch which grouped haze hybrids, east African, and se asian in another seperate clade . These clades point towards contribution from Japan korea and Northern China. Cbg and cannabigerol monomethyl ether seem to be good markers for this seperate clade as well.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full...9.2016.1265363

Graphics only- https://tandf.figshare.com/articles/dataset/Genomic_and_Chemical_Diversity_in_i_Cannabis_i_/4805497

the second graphic includes less strains from a different study but still places nevil haze progeny in a seperate se asian clade. Different enzymes were searched for in the second study so they could only compare the strains both studies included. The cycle graphic is a little confusing but it clearly shows se asian nld 2 is wedged between nld1 and east asian broad leaf hemp. Interesting thing about blh is that yes it is lower in thc, but also has little cbd sometimes. It is often found with high levels of cbc which have an increased modulating effect on thc, sticks on receptors longer. Trainwreck is the other dtrain usually in these 2nd clades which is well known to have a lowland thai progenitor. Check it out

 

[Piff_cat]

[No message]

 

[Thule]

Here is the link for the graphic and for the full article from 2015 by sawler. There is also another article by lynch which grouped haze hybrids, east African, and se asian in another seperate clade . These clades point towards contribution from Japan korea and Northern China. Cbg and cannabigerol monomethyl ether seem to be good markers for this seperate clade as well.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full...9.2016.1265363

Graphics only- https://tandf.figshare.com/articles/...bis_i_/4805497

the second graphic includes less strains from a different study but still places nevil haze progeny in a seperate se asian clade. Different enzymes were searched for in the second study so they could only compare the strains both studies included. The cycle graphic is a little confusing but it clearly shows se asian nld 2 is wedged between nld1 and east asian broad leaf hemp. Interesting thing about blh is that yes it is lower in thc, but also has little cbd sometimes. It is often found with high levels of cbc which have an increased modulating effect on thc, sticks on receptors longer. Trainwreck is the other dtrain usually in these 2nd clades which is well known to have a lowland thai progenitor. Check it out

I f***ing knew it. Se Asian is a midway type.

I do have criticism of the study too. Did they actually reconstruct the SE Asian clade from a strain called Somali Taxi driver? And they had no actual Thai at all?

 

[chusss]

Thx Piff

 

[Piff_cat]

It is confusing with the two data sets. The first data set used the 350 strains and compared the alloYmes to existing genomic information. Since scientists are always arguing about sativa indica etc there is data available concerning meo thai and lots of other landraces which were tested both from seeds but mostly confiscated samples going back to 60s. Small has a ton of info on that stuff but it's old gotta read w grain of salt. But what they are comparing total is thc cbd cbc cbg cbgm synthsses, and other enzymes snp etc. I'm not a scientist but the second study only had 2 intersecting se asian nldt- somali ghost train which is malawi x (nevils wreck[yrainwreck e32 x nh f2]) the second being grinspoon which has been accepted as either nh, nhs1, or nh outcross. I'm not saying we've discovered the holy grail here but in reading all these papers certain facts appear over and over. The most important one being that asian hemp groups with drug cannabis. That part is nearly settled. I've been designing stud books for haze c, a5t, somag13c, shanti qc, and nevilswreck male on a software called pedimap. I'm hoping as a community we can begun to answer some questions and find new ones to ask

 

[Piff_cat]

[No message]

 

[LostTribe]

Thats how the orginals used to behave...under certain conditions all the tops of the buds would start reveging.....alot of the futher worked stuff got worked an addapted to grow better indoors an have more bud an alot less leaves....did you totally scrap the difficult ones or back them up to try later maybe ?

Thats what is going on with the THH #8 even on the second round with plenty of space vs stuck under the really tall ones. The long THH did it too but more extreme it tastes of mint but its nuts impossible strech and its pure string. My current favorite is a Todd's, 12w one with the sparkling white grape juice just puts of way more resin and the taste and the smell are miles above the rest. Next time I crack some I want to try the Thh x Todd's from that one and I'd like to look at a few more of the todds. Theres some good incense in those but it took a while for that type of smell to develope curing about 3 months. Probably would have kept one of the incense ones over the purple one had I known. The purple one didnt come out as exotic the second round but is still very crazy the taste is not good though. It was culled but not before a bit of THH hit it. Wish I had one todd male. None in the first few got a few packs for laters.

 

[Dr.Young]

According to that analysis my judgement was pretty on point. Mexican+durbanPaki high cbg solid thcv (24hr highly entertaining immersive buzz)...... combined with NigerianMangohaze potent soaring electric high thcv.... equals... Goldmine

 

[sugabear_II]

Strains are and have been preserved the problem lye's with corporate cannabis and the cannabis industry and their hunger to control and own things they have no right to.

Why should any grower that has for many decades preserved genetics openly throw them around to people they dont know to see others cash in from them and others like corporate cannabis take ownership of them.

People share with friends yes its not perfect and yes it sucks but that is the reality of things.

If the breeder shares openly then there is very little room for others to cash in. It is only the scarcity created by the original breeder that allows others to cash in.

Blaming corporate cannabis for is a red herring. A breeder holding back to keep his market share is no different than a corporation seeking to control their brand, it is greed at the end of the day.

Hoarding is not preservation. Preservation would involve establishing multiple repositories and documenting lineage.

 

[@hempy]

If the breeder shares openly then there is very little room for others to cash in. It is only the scarcity created by the original breeder that allows others to cash in.

Blaming corporate cannabis for is a red herring. A breeder holding back to keep his market share is no different than a corporation seeking to control their brand, it is greed at the end of the day.

Hoarding is not preservation. Preservation would involve establishing multiple repositories and documenting lineage.

Corporate cannabis is all about control and ownership and breeders work is always being ripped off.

How is a breeder protecting his parental lines from his or her competitors the same as Big Cannabis placing patents on genetics ?.

Preserving genetics involves collecting reproducing and correctly storing genetics and shearing them with your friends. Making fresh seed and keeping the genetics safe for decades is my definition of preservation.

 

[Benny106]

I agree with both sides here but shit dies with us, and if we don't pass that shit around its gone forever like 90% or more of what was.

 

[sugabear_II]

Corporate cannabis is all about control and ownership and breeders work is always being ripped off.

How is a breeder protecting his parental lines from his or her competitors the same as Big Cannabis placing patents on genetics ?.

Preserving genetics involves collecting reproducing and correctly storing genetics and shearing them with your friends. Making fresh seed and keeping the genetics safe for decades is my definition of preservation.

The idea that an individual breeder could protect their lines forever is farcicle. Eventually the big canna you deride will adopt the techniques of a monsanto and figure out how to recreate the same strain or better through selective breeding and back crossing based in genetic sequencing and predictive algorithims. It is 100% possible for them to buy up f1 seed stock and select back to a suitable set of p1s capable of producing the same f1. Keeping the p1s held in a tight circle provides no protection for this.

I would rather see the legacy breeders banding together to form a nonprofit focused on preservation and sharing, building a seed bank and copywrighting before the big corps do.

Right now we have infighting and obfusciation of lineage to prevent other little fish from "cashing in on their work", breeders need to think beyond individual seed houses before it is too late.

 

[Bnyest]

Wish I had one todd male. None in the first few got a few packs for laters.

First 3 seeds of Todd’s that I popped were males

 

[Piff_cat]

Here is some cool stuff concerning thc and cbd synthase. The current working theory is that thc/cbd chemotype is controlled by 2 closely linked alleles. Allele bd encodes cbd while allele bt encodes thc. So bt/bt would be nld/sensimilla cultivars. Bt/bd would represent hash/resin cultivars and bd/bd fiber or seed/oil cultivars. There is also a b0 which is theorized to be a defective bd allele which results in cbg accumulation. Just setting the groundwork for discussion here I don't 100 percent agree with all the theories. But what is cool and I wanted to point out is the similarity between mexican nld and japan nld. If you read the whole paper you'll learn that japan 054 shares the exact same thc synthase as a Mexican nld, and even more interesting the japan 054 seems to lack cbd synthase entirely. Now I've always imagined ganja cultivars moving west from se asia , India, and africa to mexico/south America. This graphic shows its possible north east blh/nld could have moved east to the west pacific shore of Mexico, Peru, and cauca colombia. A recent grow from snowhigh El primo by Millbury vibez seems to put meat on the bones of the theory. Japan nld has a couple very cool traits including ridged square hollow stems and towering stature. Check it out.....

 

[Budz Lightyear]

Here is some cool stuff ... So bt/bt would be nld/sensimilla cultivars. Bt/bd would represent hash/resin cultivars and bd/bd fiber or seed/oil cultivars..

I thought "sensimilla" simply means flower without seed/unpolinated cannabis? Has that changed now too?

 

[RoyalFlush]

I thought "sensimilla" simply means flower without seed/unpolinated cannabis? Has that changed now too?

 

[romanoweed]

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