The Haze discussion thread

[Ncali]

It was not that long back when no seed company offered fem seed. Fem seed is is relevantly a new thing but Paradise seed was experimenting with fem seed not sure on the year need to look for that .

Then Exile i think his handle was showed up (I always thought it was Sam ) introduced a female reversal spray back in 2004 ish at CW before that there was no fem seed.

So going by what Chimeras is saying all the cannabis before that was inferior ?.

Males help purge or clear bad mutations they play an important roll its not just about the genetic history of a males paternal ancestral line.

I grew fem seed a friend gifted me to see for my self they turned out to be the worse plants i ever grew.

You might find his response in the pod cast helpful to answer your question. He was not referring to quality of fem'd plants vs regular, but rather the advantage of having your breeding parental lines able to show their traits. Male cannabis plants typically do not have the drug characteristics. So the males genetic makeup is only "seen" in the resulting progeny, where as two female plants can be evaluated for each parents drug characteristics before they are bred.

He discusses the advantages of using females as the parental lines. That is juxtaposed to breeding with males, then having to check the resulting progeny to "evaluate" the male lines.

Go listen to the podcast hempy, it's worth your time. Even if you disagree.

And15- 20 year old technology isn't new.

 

[@hempy]

You might find his response in the pod cast helpful to answer your question. He was not referring to quality of fem'd plants vs regular, but rather the advantage of having your breeding parental lines able to show their traits. Male cannabis plants typically do not have the drug characteristics. So the males genetic makeup is only "seen" in the resulting progeny, where as two female plants can be evaluated for each parents drug characteristics before they are bred.

He discusses the advantages of using females as the parental lines. That is juxtaposed to breeding with males, then having to check the resulting progeny to "evaluate" the male lines.

Go listen to the podcast hempy, it's worth your time. Even if you disagree.

And15- 20 year old technology isn't new.

There are ways to test males one is to sexually reverse them and by doing so you get a idea of things like resin the flowers produce and what smells the male carry's but i wouldn't be smoking the flowers that were reversed.

A more simple method of testing a male is to smoke test it and i have been doing that with hybrids for decades.

The proof still comes in the form of testing the seed you make using that male and or males and so far its worked well for me.

Finding males good males in hybrids is not always easy especially in Haze were you dont see as many as you do female plants.

 

[Hammerhead]

I find more quality plants in fem seeds than in reg seeds. It's why I still make and grow them today. With fems we have to inspect them to get out any intersex plants, you would do the same when growing reg seeds to get out any males. It's not hard IMO to check on fem seed plants at least 2x a week. If the maker did a good job there shouldn't be many found.

 

[Ncali]

I find more quality plants in fem seeds than in reg seeds. It's why I still make and grow them today. With fems we have to inspect them to get out any intersex plants, you would do the same when growing reg seeds to get out any males. It's not hard IMO to check on fem seed plants at least 2x a week. If the maker did a good job there shouldn't be many found.

Do you think that finding nicer females may in some part be reliant on understanding one of the parents better? Knowing the smoking characteristic, flavor, potency, terps of BOTH parents seems to be an advantage...

I like males because I don't like messing around with chemicals, as i use my seeded moms for smoking and making concentrates. But, it seems logical that if I DIRECTLY KNOW what both parents have going on for their drug cannabis characteristics I'd make better end result seeds in fewer generations and/or grows.

 

[JohnnyChicago]

I like males because I don't like messing around with chemicals, as i use my seeded moms for smoking and making concentrates. But, it seems logical that if I DIRECTLY KNOW what both parents have going on for their drug cannabis characteristics I'd make better end result seeds in fewer generations and/or grows.

There is no difference betweeen males and females. You need to progeny test them all, no matter if they are females or males.
And you may have an idea of what the female adds by smoking her, but you won't know what the males would have added if you don't test them.
Also when you use males, you will have males in progeny. If not, not.
Not to underestimate too.
Espcially when those who have the most experience with Haze, for some reason do almost all recommend to use males.

 

[Hammerhead]

Do you think that finding nicer females may in some part be reliant on understanding one of the parents better? Knowing the smoking characteristic, flavor, potency, terps of BOTH parents seems to be an advantage...

I like males because I don't like messing around with chemicals, as i use my seeded moms for smoking and making concentrates. But, it seems logical that if I DIRECTLY KNOW what both parents have going on for their drug cannabis characteristics I'd make better end result seeds in fewer generations and/or grows.

You can selectively reverse any part of a plant. This will not affect other parts. I think most do not smoke plants or branches treated with STS. If any do they should not. If I reverse a whole plant it's not used for anything but pollen. From, what I've seen most buy fem seeds because of the frequent quality and not dealing with males.

I still make reg seeds all the time. I def find quality plants in them as well just not as frequent.

 

[@hempy]

Males are important and play a larger roll than just producing pollen that pollinates the female to make seed.

The male purges the bad mutations and determines the sex of each seed and much more.

I find it odd that many of the same people that talk of inbreeding cannabis as a SIN support the practice of feminization and self pollination as ground braking science bit odd if you ask me as selfing is an extreme form of inbreeding.

Finding ancestral lines is only relatively new to me and Nevil told me about this. Look into the history of horse breeding cattle sheep it just goes on and Line breeding is what many did. Inbreeding can get you there faster but it has risks.

I managed to find both sides of the Haze parental line used in Nevil's Haze in the female plants i call HzA and HzC not one of these types of plants were seen in any of the Nevil's Haze F1s i grew.

 

[Ncali]

There is no difference betweeen males and females. You need to progeny test them all, no matter if they are females or males.
And you may have an idea of what the female adds by smoking her, but you won't know what the males would have added if you don't test them.
Also when you use males, you will have males in progeny. If not, not.
Not to underestimate too.
Espcially when those who have the most experience with Haze, for some reason do almost all recommend to use males.

Again, I'm not explaining this as eloquentlyas Chimera does in the Pot Cast.

Yes, you have to test both. Having two females gives you an indication of some of the genes are present in the parental genes.. the males require an extra step of testing...

I'd implore you guys not to reply to this post... Just go listen to the pot cast if anything I've said intrigues you haha. It's not my argument, and I am too uneducated in the finer points, please don't goad me into continuing to butcher Chimeras arguments about breeding. I think chimeras argument for femmd seed breeding is a good one, from an perspwctive of economic and efficient breeding program at scale. We aren't talking about the seed chucking we do here in our small population tents, but rather populations at large with hundreds or thousands of individual plants. Breeding. Why waste lights fertilizer and space on unknown genetic traits, as males don't outwardly indicate their genetic drug characteristics.... females do.....

And as far as smoking plants that have anywhere been exposed to colodial silver, I'd just recommend against it. Science and testing is proving we as a society are far too casual about what chemicals we expose to things we intend to ingest.

 

[harvestreaper]

Males are important and play a larger roll than just producing pollen that pollinates the female to make seed.

The male purges the bad mutations and determines the sex of each seed and much more.

I find it odd that many of the same people that talk of inbreeding cannabis as a SIN support the practice of feminization and self pollination as ground braking science bit odd if you ask me as selfing is an extreme form of inbreeding.

Finding ancestral lines is only relatively new to me and Nevil told me about this. Look into the history of horse breeding cattle sheep it just goes on and Line breeding is what many did. Inbreeding can get you there faster but it has risks.

I managed to find both sides of the Haze parental line used in Nevil's Haze in the female plants i call HzA and HzC not one of these types of plants were seen in any of the Nevil's Haze F1s i grew.

stop teasin lol

 

[harvestreaper]

for sure linebreeding a biggy people often talk of greats of the past well there is a way to breed back into the past its called linebreeding lol breeding back into the heritage the direction is backwards ,,inbreeding is staying in same place genetically and flipping again treading water if you like ,,outcrossing creates something new an is a forward direction genetically speaking

 

[Donald Mallard]

just a quick heads up on using females to breed with ,
you can make hybrids of course ,
im sure that will be in the podcast ncali is encouraging folks to watch ,

breeding two elite females together will absolutely give u great progeny,
and much easier than trying to select males , test etc etc

 

[Nexus7]

Those Nevil's Haze look sublime!

Nice job @@hempy!

Just wish I was there to smoke it all with you

 

[herbgreen]

Looks like some sweet smoke hempy

 

[Hammerhead]

close up cross section THH. There might be resin hiding in there lol.

 

[...CR500AF...]

close up cross section THH. There might be resin hiding in there lol.

There might be some white there, lol should be nice at the end...

 

[TheDarkStorm]

Ojd,s OutBack Haze#1 x Nh21/MMl ........comes out like one of the rust coloured brown sticky nevil's haze cutting nevil was using back in Holland but this has abit more green colour..i can see why nevil picked his #21.......this pheno seems to lean to the outback haze side.... taste is kind of that dead flower petals with a slightly different base...im guessing thats the other component in the outback,

bit hard to describe...but its like a haze flavor but different or new addition on top of the nh...the effect is strong...you can smoke it an not feel anything...then bang you start getting waves of pressure on your head and your heart will beat faster.....its dam good haze....long lasting high (4hrs)an fades out without any negative sluggish comedown......its addictive tho.

 

[g0dzilla]

Ojd,s OutBack Haze#1 x Nh21/MMl ........comes out like one of the rust coloured brown sticky nevil's haze cutting nevil was using back in Holland but this has abit more green colour..i can see why nevil picked his #21.......this pheno seems to lean to the outback haze side.... taste is kind of that dead flower petals with a slightly different base...im guessing thats the other component in the outback, bit hard to describe...but its like a haze flavor but different or new addition on top of the nh...the effect is strong...you can smoke it an not feel anything...then bang you start getting waves of pressure on your head and your heart will beat faster.....its dam good haze....long lasting high (4hrs)an fades out without any negative sluggish comedown......its addictive tho.

How long did she go for you dark? I have a few of the ob#2x in flower now. Thanks for sharing

 

[TheDarkStorm]

How long did she go for you dark? I have a few of the ob#2x in flower now. Thanks for sharing

Im guessing yours should be abit quicker...I didn't really keep track of time but I think this one went about 12-13 weeks maybe 14 but not 100% on that...there is another pheno that looks more landrace type but has stronger scents but that looks like itl go 16 or over......il check my posts to get you a more accurate time scale.....

 

[@hempy]

Looks real nice Dark good job i really liked the look of the NH21 and the OUTBACK Haze.

 

[ojd]

Ojd,s OutBack Haze#1 x Nh21/MMl ........comes out like one of the rust coloured brown sticky nevil's haze cutting nevil was using back in Holland but this has abit more green colour..i can see why nevil picked his #21.......this pheno seems to lean to the outback haze side.... taste is kind of that dead flower petals with a slightly different base...im guessing thats the other component in the outback, bit hard to describe...but its like a haze flavor but different or new addition on top of the nh...the effect is strong...you can smoke it an not feel anything...then bang you start getting waves of pressure on your head and your heart will beat faster.....its dam good haze....long lasting high (4hrs)an fades out without any negative sluggish comedown......its addictive tho.

Nice report bro .
the cure really brings out the flavour.