The expat life... how?

[Guest]

I plan on moving to another country so why would i argue that its a bad decision?

Mate, your discussion with NS will obviously be more productive, so perhaps you should get on with that

meanwhile: what you said above makes no sense, or suggests you haven't been able to understand what I wrote

I am saying: there are ethical considerations to be made in chosing whether or not to live somewhere, not least somewhere with as appaling a record as the PRC, or perhaps Burma etc.

perfectly salient, or at least so for those with capacity to see it as such, which I would have thought was most people

sorry fella, ain't dumbing down on your account -

still, have fun

Namkha

p.s. just noticed your comment on calling you "mate" - apologies for unwittingly ignoring it, and I do hope it didn't cause you undue distress...

 

[Mr. Nevermind]

I seriously recommend you sit down, talk and finalise a deal before moving down there though. As in I'd first request a finalised deal mentioning work conditions, responsibilities, terms + conditions, salary, overtime etc., on a company letter pad signed by the MANAGING DIRECTOR before moving down there. A GM (General Manager) worded letter isin't valid in most countries. The MD (managing director) can still override them. Although Spain is still Europe, the business conditions (at least in the leather industry) is a bit "third worldish"- like in Italy. As in it's not uncommon for things such as price to be "adjusted" in after the goods are dispatched. Again, this is only the leather field that too in an agency biz. I'm not sure about finance job fields, though, sorry couldnt be of much help there.



Before investing $$$, I seriously request you tell your friends to work part time in an existing biz for at least a year before investing $$$ in a physical premise. At least from what I've seen, lots of expats tend to know the business pretty well (like how to setup a grow shop) but often negate the local business environment- which cn only be got thru experience. I don't want your friends to lose $$$ bro, that all.

Sorry bro I couldn't be of much help. Only done very, very little biz w/ Spain- that too as a leather export agent. If u had Asia in mind, I coulda offered more detail...

No worries , thanks for your input. yes i know that i need something in writing before i even get on the plane. I started a business here before so i know that it canbe tricky, espicially in a different country. I agree that they should work there for at leat a year before investing cash. I think thats why they are happy i am going. I play the devils advocate in most situations. Always ask "what if " in regards to their plans. Alot have the know how to run a shop day to day, but opening a business escpically in a foreign county is anothe rball game. I have attys that handle that for me though. Thank you for the concern however Nagu. Good man






Nevermind

 

[Mr. Nevermind]

Mate, your discussion with NS will obviously be more productive, so perhaps you should get on with that

meanwhile: what you said above makes no sense, or suggests you haven't been able to understand what I wrote

I am saying: there are ethical considerations to be made in chosing whether or not to live somewhere, not least somewhere with as appaling a record as the PRC, or perhaps Burma etc.

perfectly salient, or at least so for those with capacity to see it as such, which I would have thought was most people

sorry fella, ain't dumbing down on your account -

still, have fun

Namkha

p.s. just noticed your comment on calling you "mate" - apologies for unwittingly ignoring it, and I do hope it didn't cause you undue distress...

No kidding there are ethical as well as other considerations. I have no desire to livein china or Burma, so I'll be fine. I am a smart guy and research things before i do them . So dont worry about me. As far as you calling me mate? Thats just you being a smart ass and i would expect better. However expectations of people usually fall short and you prove that








nevermind

 

[naga_sadu]

Mr. Nevermind,

All the best bro. I hope you settle into Barcelona well. In the worst case scenario, if the finance industry doesn't work out well for you, please feel free to PM me (hell as long as this site is active, I'm here), I'll see what I can do to get u connected w/ the leather or footwear industry there as a buyer agent. In Spain, leather & footwear are one of the more lucrative and the most highly profitable industries out there...

And just to repeat (cos its important), when u do get something in writing, make sure it's signed by the managing director. Unlike the US and Canada, a General Manager's signature can be overturned in a split sec by the managing director in most Asian/ Arab/ EU countries- unless you're going to work for a public sector company (highly unlikely). In the US and Canada, a GM signature signed on the letter pad is considered as final as a managing director's sig. Not so in most European countries...no attorney can do anything there if a managing director cuts your salary and/or perks from an agreement signed by the general manager.

 

[naga_sadu]

Namkha:

You said you lived in Thailand? Done any biz there? I mean cities like Bangkok are maddening hellholes, I'm more interested in towns such as Udon Thanni etc. I know back in the 80s lots of Indians did "5-6" business there. As in give 5 bucks in the morning and take back 6 in the evening (for example). Hell if you've lived in East Asia, I'm sure you've heard that word 5-6 (five six) before. But apparently, "5-6"ers tend to get hacked up with machetes

Either ways, did u try to do biz in Thailand? Outside the cities? In Bangkok you can easily get by setting up a CD shop, I kno. Or an Indian restaurant. Or a tailour shop. Lots of Indians do all three. But how's about the serene towns? Any exp. there? Would love to hear your experience on this regard.

 

[Lucky 7]

Interesting thread, thanks to all fer the insight . . .

 

[ngakpa]

China Riots - 20,000 plus farmers clash with police in Hunan, 12th March 2007

China Riots - 20,000 plus farmers clash with police in Hunan, 12th March 2007

further to the discussion of China as a nice place to live:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/12032007/397/thousands-riot-china-0.html

 

[naga_sadu]

further to the discussion of China as a nice place to live:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/12032007/3...ot-china-0.html

The riots happen not because the Chinese are saddistic folks or not because the Chinese government loves to beat up villagers for orgasmic joy, but because the agrarian population- who were the mainstay of the Communist revolution- have been given the ultimate middle finger ever since Deng Xiaoping rose to power. The "Great Leap forward" promise made by Mao Tse Tsung never materailised and was completely scrapped by Xiaoping. This is when the tensions w/ the agrarian population surfaced.

Yes, China's domestic policy is flawed to the core. So is the Indian domestic policy (leading to the GOdhra carnage, Mumbai riots), and so is the US domestic policy (Ex: civil liberties & equal representation clashes in the 60s). Or Taiwan, where the native polynesian folk were DECIMATED by Chang Kai Shek's forces (today, the natives constitute a bare 2% of the total population). Or Albania during Hoxha's rule (there were 1 million pillboxes constructed all throughout Albania). How's about the UK- which seized the Falklands. And how's about France & Holland- which contributed troops to wage an illegal seizure of the Suez canal from its rightful owners? How's about Tibet under the Dalai Lama & Sinkiang (Both practiced feudalistic slavery)? How about Belgium- which nearly eradicated all of Congo's population during the reign of Leopold?

So, what does flawed domestic / foreign policy have to do with people wanting to immigrate to a country? If flawed policy is your criterion for judging whether or not to move to a place, you might as well head to an uninhabitted pacific island and live amongst the turtles & the sea gulls.

If you wanna talk about Chinese governmental oppression, you can do it thru a new thread- I'd be more than happy 2 contribute.

But I don't think this particular thread is appropriate for that purpose...because this thread is about people from the US wanting to move to other countries & not about crappy uber revitionist policies undertaken by the Chinese government since Deng Xiaoping.

 

[TimewarP]

drooool

page 4 was so good...
lets pretend page 5 never happened

excellent advice for any nation.. europe can be just as dodgy with the wrong people pulling your strings

 

[ngakpa]

NS man, come on, don't put a new post out telling me to stop going on about China and in the same breath start going on about China yourself!!!

equally, I think the whole anal "relevance" fixation is a joke anyway: any discussion of moving to x or y country is going to have to be instantiated by specific examples, which is inevitably going to lead to some digressions and differences of opinion

but if you ask me too much space has been wasted in this thread discussing the issue of relevance and digression

btw NS this a thread about how to take up expat life, not merely for US citizens moving abroad as you said

it had got into the specifics of moving to Taiwan and China quite naturally early on, and though I was most vocal about it, several other voices were raised in opposition to suggestions of taking up expat status in China when this occured

whether or not it's appropriate to take up residence as an expat under the PRC it is an issue which activates people, for good reason - there's always the option of skipping through for people who can;t see why it's important

I objected, since I don't believe it is appropriate to be a willing resident in the Chinese regime and gave reasons why

so we were on "why"s rather than "how"s - not a million miles away, and I would be staggered if some of the people proposing to move to China did not take an interest in that information I just posted

especially when you bear in mind that in the order of 23,000 such riots occured in China last year - and that is the official statistic, not the actual one!

and NS, in answer to your initial paragraph, the Chinese government does pursue an active policy of hostility to many farmers:

- farmers are routinely bought off their land to make way for urban and industrial developments at a fixed state price way below the value of their land, and not compensating for loss of liveilhood
- opposition to this is met with force, imprisonment and torture
- mass opposition can will and has been met with military force and live ammunition - I can find you the videos of several such massacres over the past few years if you wish

currently the aim is for most rural executions to take place in new mobile death chambers - vans fitted with equipment to enable the victim to be killed and their body kept fresh for organ harvesting
this system is already up and running in many parts of rural China
no healthcare, education, or jobs - plenty executions though ... as we will be hearing more and more often in the run up to 2008

in short - "how to take up ex-pat life in China?"
my answer - "preferably not at all, go to Taiwan instead - but if you must, do so with a total understanding of the nature of the PRC state"
that latter point is in my opinion the most important aspect of the "hows" of living under the PRC

one of the reasons I am prepared to be so strident an vociferous on this issue is that during the two years I was on Taiwan my hosts were two families of "Yi Guan Dao" Taoists, some of the kindest, gentlest and most genuine people I have ever met

Yi Guan Dao is a "underground" religious organisation members of which practice a peaceful syncretistic religion which blends Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism and some Christinaity

they are tolerant people, simple living, and strict vegetarians

there is no central organisation to the religion, and temples are only loosely affiliated - contrary to the Wiki article they are not at all secretive, and membership is open to anyone who wishes to join (there is a degree of secrecy over the rituals of initiation, that is all)

there are several million members in Taiwan, more still in the PRC - where they suffer the same human rights abuses as members of Falun Gong

the PRC is seeking the destruction because they fear their potential as a revolutionary organisation ... (hypotheitcally, it will take them along time to neutralise apporx 100 million plus of their own citizens, being a very approx total memebership of the two organisations combined)

Yi Guan Dao memebers, including elderly men and women continue to be locked up and torrtued for their religious beliefes, relatives vanished, no idea whether they are alive or dead ...other I had heard of who had had organs such as kidneys removed and so on

in Taiwan you will be able to speak with them about these experiences, Tibetans too, as I did - but not in the PRC you won't ... or not without your new acquaintance potentially vanishing the next day

and it is of a scale and intensity which buggers belief!!! The comparissons you draw to other states were largely finished events in the past and none of them come anywhere near close to equalling the levels of brutality we are talking about here ...

and for normal working class Han Chinese - 12 hour shifts, seven days a week, dormitory by the factory, incredible air pollution, contracts unpayed at the end of the year, suicide rates though the roof

China is a fucking timebomb

again, I make no apologies whatsoever for this post

Namkha

 

[naga_sadu]

in short - "how to take up ex-pat life in China?"
my answer - "preferably not at all, go to Taiwan instead - but if you must, do so with a total understanding of the nature of the PRC state"

Uh....ok. So, the socially conscious is advising us to go to Taiwan. Well, wait- Chang Kai Shek's nationalists literally DECIMATED the Taiwanese native Polynesian population. Today, the indegenous population in Taiwan is 2%. So, what's your point? We shouldn't go to Taiwan too, as per your criterion.

and NS, in answer to your initial paragraph, the Chinese government does pursue an active policy of hostility to many farmers, so I'm afraid your post - attepting to silence any further discussion though it was - was factually wrong

Again, that's because the farmers- who constituted the mainstay force behind the communist revolution- were given the big middle finger by Deng Xiaoping and all his successors. While Mao pursued a peasent friendly policy, Xiaoping reverted to revisionism, which left many Chinese farmers outside the reach of the economic pie. So, yes, there's hostility because the farmers are reasserting their rights.

The same thing happened in the US during Jim Crow's south.

so we were on "why"s rather than "how"s - not a million miles away, and I would be staggered if some of the people proposing to move to China did not take an interest in that information I just posted

Your posts are thoughtful, but has nothing to do with expatriate life- which is the primary purpose of this thread. And you go on and on harping on China's domestic policy. WHile I have nothing against that, you know- about every country on earth has dirt and not just China. If the title of this thread was "Oppression in different corners of the globe"- your posts would be thoughtful and relevant.

NS man, come on, don't put a new post out telling me to stop going on about China and in the same breath start going on about China yourself!!!

Ok. Here...I'll make it clearer.

Does/ did China have flawed policy? Yes.
Does / did Taiwan have flawed policy? Yes.
Does / did the United States have flawed policy? Yes.
Does / did Russia have flawed policy? Yes.
Does / did India have flawed policy? Yes.
Does / did an uninhabitted pacific island have flawed policy? No.

So- again...I'd much appreciate if you could share your experiences as an expat in say, Thailand or whereever you've been. Like you know- tell us about "normal" Expatriate life, what to expect (in terms of career / biz / living standard) etc., etc....

 

[ngakpa]

Taiwan as with any other country in the world has plenty of flaws

the KMT of the past and the KMT now are two very different organisations - and more to the point, Taiwan is no longer a military dictatorship, it is ruled by a democratically elected government called the DPP (members of which inc. Chen Sui Bien were in prison under the KMT regime)

moreover Yi Guan Dao was persecuted too in Taiwan up until the late 80s

and mate - your point about peasants getting "the middle finger" during The Great Leap Forward

I mean, I have seen death estimates of up to 60 million for the famines directly resulting from Mao's agrarian reforms - 20 to 40 million at least

but that is history - I was and am talking about what is going on China now!

"ask not for whom the bell tolls"

and if you want to approach this as if I am simply trying to score intellectual points here, that is your call - but I am giving you my sincere opinions

serious point here, as a guy who calls himself a socialist I fail to see how your perception of society and your role in it as an individual provides any basis for your professed political beliefs

... i.e. I would not expect to have to explain why I view living in China the way I do to a socialist

how to live in the PRC - by understanding it

anyway mate, gotta run - will be back to bicker later

 

[ngakpa]

Mao pursued a peasent friendly policy

give me a break man, Mao's "Great Leap Forward" resulted in the death of around 20 - 60 Million Chinese peasants

what are you a Maoist or something? Your intellectual dishonesty is quite extraordinary

for someone who purports to be well versed in Asian history and culture, and you come out with bullshit like this - what about all the peasants who were slaughtered in Tibet and during the Cultural Revolution?

really, what horseshit

and you can't even spell "sadhu" correctly - there should be an "h" there mate, get a grip

 

[hazes' gift]

Please anyone wiling to continue this thread and put there life experiences as an Expat as far as work, women , culture and Mj goes. please write about it there are many readers who are interrested.

 

[dtcb]

expat living in Asia

expat living in Asia

Hi,

As per original thread request,

I'm originally from the US and moved to Asia in 94'. Have lived in various parts of Asia ever since.

Yes, there are some things I miss from the US. Mainly, readily available high quality cuts of meat for low prices and a yard.

But, I'm having a great time living in Asia. I've lived in several countries here and visited most. Each has their pro's and con's. The debate here about where to live is irrelevant. Pick a place and go for it with eyes wide open. They are all an adventure in their own way. Just, be aware of what day to day will involve (price of beer, commute, taxes, rights, crime, etc) and the potential infractions of the law you may encounter with ganj (as I suspect you want to be in a ganj friendly location)

Ganj is hard to find in a few countries (Malaysia, Singapore, etc) and easy to find in a lot (India, Indonesia, Thailand, Philippines, etc). But, I would recommend wherever you go, you grow. Buying is always a legal danger escalated by relying on a third party you have no trust or control of. Growing in Asia can be difficult, but not impossible. I've done a guerilla grow in the hills of a Major 7 million+ people city and didn't get caught. You just have to respect the laws ability to be enforced. And then fear it. Listening to fear will always tell you when you are fucking up and exposing yourself to a potential infraction. I figured out a place to grow that gave me 'low to no' visibility from law enforcement and general public. I grew only for myself and sharing with friends so crop size was small. (I can't share how info here.....not wise and I'm too new here to be taken serious).

I'm not going to elaborate too much on women out here. In most cities in Asia I've been in, if your are a nice person, women will come your way. But, like Europe and US, you are going to get all kinds. Every country has every type; Asia can make a Paris Hilton just as easily as the US......she just will not get the media coverage she doesn't deserve. I do meet more friendly women here in Asia but, I have to say some are even expats themselves, and on equal terms (i'm not slumming girly bars).

And, if I may be so rude, there are less corpulant women in Asia in general; even the foreign ones. It is either the competition, the reduced food portions of asia or a lifestyle that removes time wasted infront of a TV.

dtcb

Oh....and I started off as a teacher.....moved on to other things. Nothing wrong with starting off teaching. Asia is still a place of opportunity. Get your foot in the door and then make your own way after that.

 

[Slim Pickens]

Good post dtcb.
I am also an expat in SE Asia.I've had my fill of the US and am now living very well.I particularly enjoy a short walk to the beach,or if I prefer,a very short drive to the cool of the mountains.

It does take some getting used to tho,so go in knowing that there needs to be some adjustment "on your part",as there is little likelihood that they will change to suit you.But so far I prefer it here,and it is inexpensive to live,and the growing season is a long one.

I can't give much advice on women,as I have been married to mine for 18yrs now.She's pretty darn close to perfect,as I have had my experience with American women.

As far as herb is concerned...I'm having a terrible time locating any.I've been advised to really keep my head down,with regards to pot,as it is highly illegal.The wife pointed out that there are no secrets kept here.If someone knows,they tell everyone...and I have seen this to be true.

So unless you know someone who can absolutely be trusted,it would be better to keep your mouth shut.

I will be looking for a growspot as well,as soon as I have a car and the rainy season is over.

All in all tho....I'm glad I made my move.