The expat life... how?

[Guest]

in all seriousness people, none of what I wrote above was exaggerated, merely generalised

I would think very seriously about how and why you would want to visit and/or live on Mainland China
your actions could be taken as, or function as, an implicit acquiescence to what is basically a brutal and evil regime

as I say, it is easily possible to live in such places one way or another and be oblivious to the brutal realities

the ongoing human rights abuses in China are horrifying,
Yi Guan Dao
Falun Gong
Uighur Muslims
Tibetan Buddhists
Radicals of any kind

many people will spend time in China, even in Tibetan reas, without any real appreciation of what they are seeing, what is actually going on
the monasteries for instance are state run and state controlled, the traditional Tibetan debates are a sham, no actual public teaching or education is allowed

the vast majority of business remains state controlled
China is absorbing capitalism, it is not adopting democracy

the PRC hasn't the slightest interest in human rights or civil liberties I can assure you

and the widespread oppression of the rural peasant majority too, which is something you hear very little about, is becomgin a big problem -
there are literally thousands of uprising by rural famring communities every year throughout China
they are all put down, but they signal ugly times ahead

history will look back on our governments as appeasers for refusing to stand up to the PRC autocracy at this pivotal point in history when such a vast proprtion of humanity lives beneath its oppresive weight

the information is out there - there is no excuse for being oblivious to the oplitical realities around you
Namkha

 

[KharmaGirl]

Most of us aren't idiots and know all this. Especially those of us who have been/have family there. My sis has never had a problem with anything, except for communication at first. No matter where you choose to go there will always be pros and cons. Not trying to start anything, but it really does make a difference what part of China you go to and how you conduct yourself.

 

[Guest]

please explain to me how you excuse, for instance, the Tibetan "gulags"

or the suppresion of Yi Guan Dao and Falun Gong

is that accpetable to you?

Namkha

"pros and cons" - lol - I'm sorry but you make it sound like picking a beach holiday

 

[KharmaGirl]

Oh please Yes, China has/does do some terrible things but so does the US, and many other countries. As much as there is to dislike about China there are many many wonderful things and people too. My sister has never been happier in her life and that's saying alot--especially considering she left a wonderful country(Canada) to try her life long dream. To discourage people from visiting China is sad--It's an amazing place. Opening your eyes to a whole new culture and way of life is exciting to some.

 

[BruceLeeroy]

how about...

how about...

please explain to me how you excuse, for instance, the Tibetan "gulags"

or the suppresion of Yi Guan Dao and Falun Gong

is that accpetable to you?

Namkha

"pros and cons" - lol - I'm sorry but you make it sound like picking a beach holiday

How about 200 years of the US gov't stealing land from, enslaving, poisoning, and forcefully eradicating the culture of the Native americans? what about the political war waged by the US gov't against the members of AIM? more people are arrested in the United States and sentenced to prison BY FAR than in china. People are even today persecuted, their livelihoods removed, because of their political views (ward churchill). America hasn't been about democracy since lincoln. we're all about capitalism, not democracy. yeah china has done and continues to do evil things. i dont see them starting wars around the globe, spreading death, disease, poverty and misery the way we in the US are. i'm not trying to start a political debate on the topic of which is worse, but everything you hold evil in china is mimicked in the US. i wonder if our hypocrisy is one of the reasons we're near universally despised.

"please explain to me how you excuse, for instance, the Tibetan "gulags"

i imagine the same way you excuse Guantanamo Bay, abu graib, and all the VAST number of atrocities our narrowminded gov't has committed for the last 200 years.


i love all the fundamentals of the US. it's too bad they're not even remotely adhered to now. you think i'm comparing apples to oranges. i think we're comparing the degree of ripeness.

peace (now that sounds funny really coming from an american lol)

 

[BananaBuds]

please explain to me how you excuse, for instance, the Tibetan "gulags"

or the suppresion of Yi Guan Dao and Falun Gong

is that accpetable to you?

Namkha

"pros and cons" - lol - I'm sorry but you make it sound like picking a beach holiday

None of that is acceptable, but perhaps by being nearer to it one could do what one can to help? I know activisim is dangerous and possibly life-threatening in china but maybe just by being witness to life in such a place and returning home to share could do something. In all honesty perhaps living there and then spreading word about conditions is not supporting is but instead working to increase opposition to it. Are aid workers and foreign journalists and expats living in the middle east supporting terrorism? No. Besides if, as you say: "...they are all put down, but they signal ugly times ahead. history will look back on our governments as appeasers for refusing to stand up to the PRC autocracy at this pivotal point in history when such a vast proprtion of humanity lives beneath its oppresive weight", then perhaps by risking some personal security and being nearer to this point of change AND on the side of human rights history will not look back on those individuals living there as appeasers but instead part of change. Run on sentence I know, but my point stands.

In any case my arrangements are already made to leave for Canada soon so i will have at least a few more years to consider my desicions. Just getting an early start :smile:

 

[Guest]

just to be clear here: I am no sense advocating hostility towards China

I am a Sinophile in the sense that I love what I view to be authentic Chinese culture
I also have a great deal of time for Marx, incidentally, (though not Mao)

Song watercolours, Chan gong an, the Tang Masters, Han Shan, Ba Gua Zhang - I love all these things

so again, we have to be clear between an objection to things Chinese, and an objection to the PRC
I am opposed to the PRC, the state that is oppressing the Chinese people, I have nothing against the Chinese - dong bu dong?

what I also object to is the way that Europe, my region of origin, is prepared to pander to China simply because of money and trade, and lacks the political courage and will to engage real diplomatic pressure

While I doubt China will ever engage in overseas conflict (except perhaps the minute chance of hostilities with Taiwan, where I lived for a couple of years),
the abuses commited by the PRC against the Tibetans and against the people of China since shortly after the close of WWII have been some of the most appaling in the history of the world

I am utterly opposed to Bush and Blair, and I view the UK US and others as utterly culpable in the mess that colonial and post-colonial policy has made of the Middle East and the Muslim world generally

but to suggest that the human rights abuses commited by contemporary America are comparable with those of the PRC is ludicrous, and suggests to me that you may not be familiar with some of the events I am alluding to: the Great Leap Forward, the Hundred Flowers, the whole history of the genocide in Tibet...

there are prisons in Tibet larger than any built by Stalin which are still in use today
since the rail line was finished the PRC is deliberately flooding Tibet with Han Chinese on a vast scale in an attempt to "de-Tibetanise" Tibet

and did you see the recent reports on the removal of organs from Falun Gong and Yi Guan Dao prisoners?
these are harmless religious organisations which the PRC is seeking to destroy because it regards them as potentially revolutionary
eg Falun Gong alone has more members than the Communist party itself
60 million plus
hence the locking up, murdering and dissapearance of otherwise innocent often elderly people

as someone who is friends with many members of such organisations (and I do not subscribe to such beliefs myself) I can assure you that these are very real events in the lives of innocent people
not to mention the Tibetans who to this day are escaping to India and elsewhere in order to preserve their liberty and dignity
you need only go to Dharamsala to see this happen, or indeed visit Taiwan and meet some monks who are free to tell you what they think and to talk about the destruction of their homeland

I have friends who have been arrested and deported by the Chinese police for "seditious behaviour"
I have no problem with people seeking to change China from within, but good luck with it mate

you might enjoy a book called "Red Dust"
the author is now living in the UK after fleeing the Mainland to Hong Kong

You might also like to read about the Cultural Revolution, events such as
The Great Leap Forward which claimed in the order of 30 to 40 million Chinese lives, of The Hundred Flowers, and the invasion of Tibet, the rape and slaughter of millions of innocents, and the attempted erasure of Tibetan and Chinese culture from the face of the earth

Namkha

there is being open-minded and tolerant, and there is being complacent and passive - history won't always gives you a free ride

 

[BruceLeeroy]

the fact that the PRC has killed in numbers so much larger is irrelevant and merely a function of population density. had the number of Native Americans in the new world numbered equally, so would the slaughtered have been similar. you think it's better that the US only killed 1/3 the number the PRC has? the murder, rape, pillaging and eradication of culture is evil, whether it be 1000 people or 30 million.

I don't hardly consider China (PRC) to be innocent. nor will i condemn them from within a country that has and CONTINUES to commit similar atrocities. i think it might shock some to learn that the current civilian death count from our two iraqi wars is nearing the 1 million mark, both from direct deaths, the result of post war chaos, so called collateral damage incidents, and from the poisoning resulting from living amongst spent uranium tank shells. then lets add up all the responsibility from all the deaths we've shared responsibility in... cambodia, vietnam, chile, iran, afghanistan, iraq.... the list goes on and on. you'll find that the US caused or bore direct responsibility for causing civillian deaths in numbers that rival what hitler did to the jews.

thats just in the last 50 years. if you go back further, the numbers get far worse. yes china commits atrocities in tibet. they imprison people for speaking for any kind of independence, or anti-party sentiments. the fact is that according to the UN, The united states has more of it's own citizens behind bars than ANY Other country, more than china, more than iran, more than north korea. here are some interesting facts.

the U.S. has 2.03 million people locked up. China has 1.51 million in second place. lets do some population calculations. China, with a population of roughly 1200 million, comes in at roughly 117prisoners per 100,000 population, while the U.S. comes in with a wopping 707 per 100,000. we have almost SEVEN times the number of people locked up than the Chinese do.

i know alot of americans have stars and stripes in their eyes and don't see these facts. hell maybe it's the same kind of complacency you see in the worlds response to the chinese, i dont know. all i know is that i'm not going to damn the chinese any more than i'll damn my fellow countrymen, for being so pig headed as to believe life can be black or white.

any american that doesnt cringe with shame when they think about the treatment of Native Americans needs a history lesson. europeans share their blame in that as well.

peace

**Edit***

i wanted to add a few things. for what it's worth, i agree the PRC has some serious issues. any kind of totalitarian type of gov't is going to have to repress portions of the population. fascist germany did it. socialist russia did it. why should socialist china be any different? i personally find alot admirable in the tenants of true socialism. i think the true future of governance will be a bonding of true democracy with communism, leavened with a small , controlled amount of capitalism. i dont admire the gov't of china. in fact, they scare the shit out of me. i just think my country needs to think alot more about itself and IT'S atrocities, some of which are happening even as we speak, than those committed by a foreign gov't half a world a way. if we learn ANYTHING from iraq, it's that there is no such thing as a bloodless revolution. Ghandi and India/Pakistan showed us that half a century ago if we'd paid a little more attention.

 

[Chamba]

If China is not for you then go to Taiwan.......it's the best kept secret in Asia they say and you can earn decent money if you get the right gig happening....

...but you might have trouble sleeping at night knowing that there are 795 intercontinental missiles from Maimland China aimed to you .....Ow-Kah-Pow!

 

[BananaBuds]

If China is not for you then go to Taiwan.......it's the best kept secret in Asia they say and you can earn decent money if you get the right gig happening....

...but you might have trouble sleeping at night knowing that there are 795 intercontinental missiles from Maimland China aimed to you .....Ow-Kah-Pow!

I might acutally. Like I said I used to live there (Moved back about a year ago) and I would soooo go back. I've heard China is very different but not bad (aside from all the stuff mentioned of course, human rights ARE an issue). I just might have to and I have known some people to get the right gig going. Who knows, like I said I have time to decide :smile: Were you in Taipei or down island a ways?

 

[Chamba]

in Maimland China the relatives of executed prisoners have to pay for the bullet before they can get the body back to bury it (minus corneas, organs, and other body parts etc etc that are sold that is)

read "Shanghai Baby" for a look at modern China...it's sort of a Sex and the City through the eyes of a young modern Chinese female writer...Shanghai sounds like it is happening, I wouldn't mind going there for a quick visit.....

I can't wait until the people revolt and drag those disgustingly corrupt Commo Party officials (those Ta-Mah-Da's!) into the street for some quick justice .....it's going to happen when their (and the World's) economy slows down in 3 or 4 years time if they don't allow democracy......

 

[Chamba]

Were you in Taipei or down island a ways?

Watch out you don't develop a betel-nut habit!..btw if you go there, let me know and I'll PM my address so you can post me some ...I'm jonesing for a packet of Bing-lung at the moment!

 

[Guest]

lol Chamba, great minds think alike man

used to live outside Taichung in the hills a couple of years back, out past Tai Ping on the way to that big Pure Land monastery - stunning already and just a km into the hills!

admit it man, you only go there for that bin lang totty!
wooo eeee - tsao la!!!

Namkha

edit: Red Dust is the best contemporary Chinese novel I have read - the main character/author is a star

 

[BananaBuds]

Betel nets.... ohhh sooo good. Every once in a while I definitly could go for some

I'll defnitly send you a few packs when I get back there

 

[Chamba]

Taiwan betel nut gives you a nice pick-me-up and a zonky buzz too ..good for when you have ganbei-ed too much as it sobers you up quick ..it also warms you up for that cold ride home in Winter

the trouble is once picked it degrades quickly so can't be exported..and it is ten times more mouth cancer causing than chain smoking cigs!

I've tried Maimland and Indian betel nut (which were hard and crappy tasting)...Taiwan has the best! and the bing-lung shiow-jers (the girls who sell packets of betel nut from glass booths on the side of the road wear nothing more than a few tats, skimpy clothes (bikini-ish) and a smile!

ask for "you-kee-ah bing lung" (young fresh betel nut!)

 

[Guest]

yes we seem somehow gone from a hardcore ethical debate about the "Maimland" to a discussion about where to find the juciest bin lang lol

still, I'm sure the Mormon jiao would agree that this is a time for us to make a really positive change in our lives - they seemed to think that you could do nothing better for a Taiwanese guy from the sticks than to get him to quit that bin lang
- that's it son, and no more coca cola neither

There was a place out in the sticks of Taichung where I taught for a while called Wu R (Black Sun - great fun going up to the taxi drivers drunk and going "OOOOH EERRRRRR") which I swear was some kind of bin lang mecca - it was a dump this place and the streets were just streaked with bright red bin lang spit - minging, though if I am honest I couldn't give a fuck, and not half as a nasty as the view of a bin lang chewer's gob - aiii eeeeugh

IME it was usually pretty easy to spot decent bin lang - it was fatter, larger, obviously juicy and fresher looking
I reckon it is best wrapped in the leaf - not with the spicy turd in it
yeh the fresh stuff has zing

would sometimes give me a slightly tight feeling in my chest though, wasn't at my healthiest back then mind, but I do remember others complaining of the same

 

[Chamba]

would sometimes give me a slightly tight feeling in my chest though, wasn't at my healthiest back then mind, but I do remember others complaining of the same

Yeah, I've had the same feeling many a time ..it comes from eating too many b-nuts at once or from a single one in a thousand "king" binglung if you haven't had one for awhile.....I describe it as like having an elephant pressing it's full weight of one leg on my chest, break out in a sweat....it's kind of worrying the first few times it happens.....the hardcore chewers don't get that.

Betel nut keeps me awake like I've had too many strong coffees at night....

you can put one in your glass of beer and the beer will taste much sweeter (an improvement for Taiwan Beer!).

they have medicinal qualities too......if you have indigestion or eat too much - chewing one betel nut will relieve the fullness, hiccups and or acidity like magic.....ten times better/faster than AlkaSeltzer or Sodium bi-carb...

it will sober you up too if you are beer blurry/slurry

but betel nuts wreck your teeth and gums.....and they make average oolong tea taste like expensive tea (so never try/buy tea after or during on betel nut...)

 

[BananaBuds]

I remember this one family I lived with for a while in Xindian... the mom had family in a city about 2 hours west and a little south of taipei. We would drive out there and visit for festivals and then on the way back pick up binglung before leaving town to stay awake for the drive back (always a little drunk). Those girls in that stand in that little town were so fucking hot. Insane. I mean like wow... no where else on the island did I ever meet a betel nut girl that hot and they worked in this little pofunk town in the boonies. One always had the cutest nurses outfits too IIRC (like I said, often we were all a little tipsy)

 

[Chamba]

down in central and southern Taiwan I've seen the bing-lung say-shee's wearing just a g-string, see-through negligees and a smile....these glass booths are dotted along all major roads all over the island..they use flashing color lights to attract business lol...

a packet of betel nut (between 8 ~ 25 depending on the season) only costs US$1.50....the hard core chain chewers go through 2, 3 or 4 packets per day and have perma red teeth and gums...the booths they sell ciggies, drinks too....

there's a caffiene, vitamin and alcohol drink that all the construction workers guzzle to keep them going pronounced "Whis-a-bee" it tastes like a combo bubblegum and cough mixture and gives you a speedy buzz.

betel nut chewing is a blue collar thing, a 99% guy thing ..much like chewing tobacca' is in other countrys

Taiwan is full of surprises....it's as trippy as.....it's the sort of place where you go "WTF!" every half an hour...

you learn very quickly to look left and right before walking onto the side walk lol..or a motorcycle will run you down!

there isn't any tourism as such, not many foreigners get there (except businessmen and English teachers) so the people aren't jaded towards westerners like other places in Asia...most of the people are quite well off in comparison too ....eg a construction/concrete worker makes US$60 ~ 100 per day...

more often than not the locals will fight you to pay the bill at a restaurant!..which is the exact opposite of Hong Kong!

..you can walk down a laneway at night to a neighbourhood temple and see an exorcism being conducted.....or every few months see a long procession of walking "giants" dressed up like emperors from 500 years ago followed by young guys with 10 foot long rods of steel pierced through one cheek, deafening fireworks going off, tranced out guys whipping themselves with cat-o-9-tails so their backs arew covered in blood, kung-fu type dancing all over the place, 60 guys banging drums as they walk from local temple to temple as the traffic inches past them...it's a trippy place..

but the air quality is smoggy and hazey in most of the west coast, esp Taipei and Kaoshiung....Dec - Feb can be chilly and the rest of the year is super hot and humid...the beaches arent much to talk about but the whole middle and east of the country has relatively unspoilt mountain ranges..and the food is great, good value and lots of variety...the vegetarian restaurants are great!

etc etc...oh yeah ..the women are hot, well educated, intelligent, (though mostly emotionally niaive compared to the average Western girl) speak some or a lot of English too and they don't that third world mentality like many of Asia's touristy countries..and as they have more money in the bank than most of the young guys that go there, so they are with these guys because they like them not for a passport, money or whatever like other countries in Asia where any girl with a foreigner is regarded as a hooker or slut..not so in Taiwan, though there is some resentment..much like you would get if you were a black guy with a white girl in Australia or the UK.

If I was single and young again, I'd go to Taiwan.......but bring your own seeds as what grass or hash you do manage to find there is often subpar - average and almost always very high priced!

 

[BananaBuds]

Yeah, i think about the only good ganj I ever found was this one young guy traveling in for business from LA... and he brought it with him! But seriously, with all that jungle and shit, it wouldn't be hard to grow at all. Even Taipei is surrounded by mountains with perfect cover for weed growing