The expat life... how?

[Mr. Nevermind]

Hi Kharmagirl, apologies, it really did look to me like you were making light of the issue - my intention was to highlight that, not to get you upset

Yeh Naga Sadu - the PRC government has shat on the Uighur Muslims in a major way, and the "War on Terror" has given them an excuse to be more than usually heavy-handed. It does not surprise me to hear that there is no love lost.

Pretty useful info I thought re. shopping - Mr. Nevermind are you sure you weren't suffering from an excess of editorial zeal there?

Happy smiley,

Namkha

no editorial zeal.

Did I misread you? It seems very clear to me rereading your posts e.g. #22 following on from a fairly extensive list I made of genocide, false imprisonment, torture, cover ups of AIDS epidemics, suppresions of rural uprising, organ harvesting of Falun Gong and Yi Guan Dao members etc.

But i fail to see what the hell your above post has to do with moving to another country. Though you and Nagu have well thought out posts, what you are saying has nothing to do with this thread. same as what you two do in Isreali support thread. you guys go off the subject over and over and drag threads into what happens in INdia and china. Which has nothing to do with either topic. This thread is about people wanting to move to another country and are curious how people do it, the cost of it and good places to go. Not if some tribe will sell you a bag or your stance on the PRC regime.

while it is interesting, it has no place in this thread. You guys should start a thread about china and india. and discuss it there. Not taking threads and hijacking them. Sorry







Nevermind

 

[naga_sadu]

Though you and Nagu have well thought out posts, what you are saying has nothing to do with this thread.

Chill dude, which post? Maybe only 1 where I slightly digressed and got w/ the Uzigur / hash. But everything else has been topic related, I believe?

you guys go off the subject over and over and drag threads into what happens in INdia and china.

In Israel support thread, I was doing it as a cross comparison, because both India and Israel have very similar intra-regional issues. And you can analyse situations better if we cross compare them.

Alright dude, we got a rare 4g ball of manala cream this evening. First time of having it in the South. I'm off to some...laters/

 

[Guest]

eh?

so you are saying that the realities of life in a particular state are irrelevant to making a choice whether or not one chooses to live there, or indeed whether it is appropriate to do so

do explain further, as I am at loss to infer a sane line of reasoning -

so far I can only assume that you are hoping we could sustain a conversation about the practicalities of moving to and living in another country, while remaining solely in the abstract

wait, I think the doormouse has fallen asleep again...

Namkha

 

[Mr. Nevermind]

eh?

so you are saying that the realities of life in a particular state are irrelevant to making a choice whether or not one chooses to live there, or indeed whether it is appropriate to do so

do explain further, as I am at loss to infer a sane line of reasoning -

so far I can only assume that you are hoping we could sustain a conversation about the practicalities of moving to and living in another country, while remaining solely in the abstract

wait, I think the doormouse has fallen asleep again...

Namkha

Yeh Naga Sadu - the PRC government has shat on the Uighur Muslims in a major way, and the "War on Terror" has given them an excuse to be more than usually heavy-handed. It does not surprise me to hear that there is no love lost.


I am saying that what the PRC does to Uighur muslims has nothing to do with expat life. That was a post by you that has nothing to do with being an expat. Unless peopel here have expressed that they are Uighur muslims then you are giving commentary that has no use th this thread. Did that clear it up for you.


Nagu, thank you








Nevermind

 

[Guest]

sorry fella, but may I humbly state that the solipstic political perspective which you are in this instance championing is your own, and that I will neither be adopting it, nor abiding by it

to clarify:

when I lived in Taiwan, the behaviour of the Taiwanese government towards its citizens was in issue for me, both in its own right, and as it impacted on me

when I lived in Thailand... etc.


"ask not for whom the bell tolls..."


Namkha


edit: regarding the Israel post - I reserve my right to use analogy and comparison, as I see fit, cheers fella hehe

 

[Mr. Nevermind]

sorry fella, but may I humbly state that the solipstic political perspective which you are in this instance championing is your own, and that I will neither be adopting it, nor abiding by it

to clarify:

when I lived in Taiwan, the behaviour of the Taiwanese government towards its citizens was in issue for me, both in its own right, and as it impacted on me

when I lived in Thailand... etc.


"ask not for whom the bell tolls..."


Namkha


edit: regarding the Israel post - I reserve my right to use analogy and comparison, as I see fit, cheers fella hehe

just to be clear here: I am no sense advocating hostility towards China

I am a Sinophile in the sense that I love what I view to be authentic Chinese culture
I also have a great deal of time for Marx, incidentally, (though not Mao)

Song watercolours, Chan gong an, the Tang Masters, Han Shan, Ba Gua Zhang - I love all these things

so again, we have to be clear between an objection to things Chinese, and an objection to the PRC
I am opposed to the PRC, the state that is oppressing the Chinese people, I have nothing against the Chinese - dong bu dong?

what I also object to is the way that Europe, my region of origin, is prepared to pander to China simply because of money and trade, and lacks the political courage and will to engage real diplomatic pressure

While I doubt China will ever engage in overseas conflict (except perhaps the minute chance of hostilities with Taiwan, where I lived for a couple of years),
the abuses commited by the PRC against the Tibetans and against the people of China since shortly after the close of WWII have been some of the most appaling in the history of the world

I am utterly opposed to Bush and Blair, and I view the UK US and others as utterly culpable in the mess that colonial and post-colonial policy has made of the Middle East and the Muslim world generally

but to suggest that the human rights abuses commited by contemporary America are comparable with those of the PRC is ludicrous, and suggests to me that you may not be familiar with some of the events I am alluding to: the Great Leap Forward, the Hundred Flowers, the whole history of the genocide in Tibet...

there are prisons in Tibet larger than any built by Stalin which are still in use today
since the rail line was finished the PRC is deliberately flooding Tibet with Han Chinese on a vast scale in an attempt to "de-Tibetanise" Tibet

and did you see the recent reports on the removal of organs from Falun Gong and Yi Guan Dao prisoners?
these are harmless religious organisations which the PRC is seeking to destroy because it regards them as potentially revolutionary
eg Falun Gong alone has more members than the Communist party itself
60 million plus
hence the locking up, murdering and dissapearance of otherwise innocent often elderly people

as someone who is friends with many members of such organisations (and I do not subscribe to such beliefs myself) I can assure you that these are very real events in the lives of innocent people
not to mention the Tibetans who to this day are escaping to India and elsewhere in order to preserve their liberty and dignity
you need only go to Dharamsala to see this happen, or indeed visit Taiwan and meet some monks who are free to tell you what they think and to talk about the destruction of their homeland

I have friends who have been arrested and deported by the Chinese police for "seditious behaviour"
I have no problem with people seeking to change China from within, but good luck with it mate

you might enjoy a book called "Red Dust"
the author is now living in the UK after fleeing the Mainland to Hong Kong

You might also like to read about the Cultural Revolution, events such as
The Great Leap Forward which claimed in the order of 30 to 40 million Chinese lives, of The Hundred Flowers, and the invasion of Tibet, the rape and slaughter of millions of innocents, and the attempted erasure of Tibetan and Chinese culture from the face of the earth

Namkha



Like that is relavent to the thread . We arent asking about the struggle of tibet and PRC. You are hijacking a thread to post how you feel on political situation. Noone cares man. You jumped on Kharmagirl for no reason and hijack a thread to speak your political beliefs. Ok we get it. You dont like china, lets move on!! Dear god you ramble too much






Nevermind



At least Nagu understood

 

[Guest]

the discussion was about China and relocating there

so I posted about China, Chinese culture, and the history and the present activites of the Chinese state, and then you say you can't see how it is relevant

pppffff

more to the point, are you under the illusion that you are in some sense the moderator?

you aren't mate

but what you are doing is failing to make sense

how about responding to some specifics?

for instance: could you provide an intelligent rationalisation of why the actions of a state are irrelevant to an expat community in that state?

you are at the minute, wittingly or not, championing a false notion of the individual and the relationship of an individual to society and humanity at large

atomised individuality is an illusion - and you seem to have taken it to the brink of solipsism

this has everything to do with why willingly participating in the life of a brutal regime, without having clear reasons for doing so, and sound purposes, is in my view naive and irresponsible


Namkha

edit: "no one cares man" - you don't care mate, I am yet to see anyone else chiming in in support of willful ignorance just yet

more the point - there is a section of the travel industry devoted to responisble tourism and ex-pat living, a rather material proof of the fact that there are people who do care

more should

 

[KharmaGirl]

I'll be sure to pass along to my sis that she is naive and irresponsible

Anyhow... we aren't going to come to a peaceful conclusion, I don't think. So let's just let this one die out.... agree to disagree, as it were.

 

[Mr. Nevermind]

Not under any sense that I am a mod. I am just a lowly member like the rest of us. Please spare me that I am "championing a false notion" . I am championing this thread getting back on track and that is all. You can analyze it as much as you like but you are looking to far into it.

I am glad you oppose bush and blair as you said, but quite frankly , it has shit to do with topic. People are asking how expats make the movve. Not a history lesson of US policies in the middle east, or about the PRC's treatment of prisoners or its struggle with tibet.

we all have read history books . While its nice that you are telling people about what you think of China. We got that from your first post. Now you are beating a dead horse. So please lets let this thread go on to its original topic. Expats. Not abou thte treatment of tibetans or your view of US policies on the mid east.









Nevermind

 

[Guest]

despite your protestations, you're getting ideas above your station mate

this thread has proceeded as any natural discussion will through various related issues - be they bin lang (betel nut), setting up businesses, the social realities of the states you are living in, the character of the people

no doubt it will move onto other related topics

you notice that the discussion on whether it is appropriate to move to an autocratic dictatorship involved other people to

calm it down a little mate, and stop trying to impose your eccentric notion of what is relevant

if it doesn't interest you skip past it, or be more interesting

Namkha

 

[KharmaGirl]

I'm thinking something about a pot and a kettle.... but whatever......

"Some people ya just can't reach........... "

 

[Mr. Nevermind]

well this thread intersts me because i plan on leaving USA. But you have turned this thread, from page 1, into a china bashing thread. We know you dont like china, we get it!! You dont need to site every historic thing that has happened there. OSmeone said in page 1 that they will be in china in 5 years , and since then you have jumped on everyone with your PRC history lesson. No one but you cares. We get that the PRC is tough, fine. But do you really need to tell us for 5 pages? It hasnt proceeded into a natural discussion. You hijacked thread form page one about the PRC. Get over it. or do a thread about PRC. But others , such as myself, would like to hear from other memebers whom have become expats. We have already discussed China in delth, time ot move on.





Nevermind

 

[Guest]

KG - plenty of other people were involved in the discussion about China and whether is appropriate to live there in a casual unthinking way, yourself included

and apologies if my implicit judgement on your sister is a little harsh, but that is the line I take

if people wish to go off on a tangent, and the tangent develops then for Mr. N to wade in and start declaring an ethical standpoint on being an ex-pat "irrelevant" is at best sophisticated, but more accurately arrogant and ignorant

the "no one cares" comment rather sealed that for me

no one cares about what the PRC is doing Tibet, and the implicit acquiescence to that ongoing attrocity which taking up residence under the PRC regime entails?

perhaps you two don't

but these are precisely the sort of considerations that any humane, informed indiviudal ought to be making before moving to x or y country

and these are precisely the reasons why I spent several years living in Taiwan, not China

Taiwan has an authentic, living Buddhist culture, and a more traditionally Chinese culture all round, (not to mention its own Taiwanese characteristics, and many other ethnic groups too etc etc.)

the reason for the contrast: the differing histories of the two places
- in one the Cultural revolution took place etc. etc.

sorry Mr. Nevermind, but in the politest possible terms, easy on the attempts at being a self-appointed internet alpha male

everything I have said thus far has been pertinent, but for the tiresome explanations I have proffered in response to the peculiar stance you take on being an ex-pat

have you lived abroad much?

Namkha

 

[KharmaGirl]

You misconstrue peoples words and thoughts into how you think. You've twisted both mine and Mr.'s words......I'm done.... you don't care to understand or even contemplate other POV's....You insult people not even here (my sis), make a casual half hearted "sorry" and think it's ok.....You assume things.. i.e. My sis didn't research before leaving. Who wouldn't when making a move that big? You assume she isn't doing any sort of activism.... See a trend yet? This thread is officially a waste of time and effort. I never meant to have anything like this started.....I wouldn't have posted had I been able to foretell this would happen...... My apologies to all......I guess, in my and others best interest, this will be my final post in this thread. I can't see it getting any better

 

[naga_sadu]

Chill out guys, plzzz...



Let's have a few kilograms of bhang laddus each and forget the bad blood between us, cool?? As is those prohibitionist fucknuts all over the world have already given us enough shit n' bad blood.

Either ways, Mr. Nevermind, where do you want to move to? If you're thinking Asia, I can help you out. I have limited experience in East Asia. Lotsa experience in South and West Asia.

Do you have any particular country in mind? Do you have a idea on what business you want to do (unless you're moving to W. Europe, jobs are for the most part out of the question)? Are you game for "adventure business"- as in business which will have you travel thru the Himalayan Nathu-La pass etc? Do you have any technical skills (eg. motorcycle repair, carpentry) etc? Sorry, if you're thinking Europe I can't help you much tho...

 

[Mr. Nevermind]

KG - plenty of other people were involved in the discussion about China and whether is appropriate to live there in a casual unthinking way, yourself included

and apologies if my implicit judgement on your sister is a little harsh, but that is the line I take

if people wish to go off on a tangent, and the tangent develops then for Mr. N to wade in and start declaring an ethical standpoint on being an ex-pat "irrelevant" is at best sophisticated, but more accurately arrogant and ignorant

the "no one cares" comment rather sealed that for me

no one cares about what the PRC is doing Tibet, and the implicit acquiescence to that ongoing attrocity which taking up residence under the PRC regime entails?

perhaps you two don't

but these are all things that any humane, informed indiviudal ought to be thinking about before moving to x or y country

and these are precisely the reasons why I spent several years living in Taiwan, not China

Taiwan has an authentic, living Buddhist culture, and a more traditionally Chinese culture all round, (not to mention its own Taiwanese characteristics, and many other ethnic groups too etc etc.)

the reason for the contrast: the differing histories of the two places
- in one the Cultural revolution took place etc. etc.

Namkha

You read way to far into things and try to rationalize your rants with any comment you can. I said noone cares, people that lick on this thread care about moving to another country. Not the history of tibet. You take my "noone cares' as noone give a piss about tibet so you can ramble more. I mean no one cares in this thread about the history of tibet. You took is as a way to say " noone cares" to preach mmore on this crap. Give it a rest








Nevermind


PS: Call me Nevermind, Mr Nevermind or Alex. But dont refer to me as "mate". I aint your fuckin mate.

 

[Mr. Nevermind]

Chill out guys, plzzz...



Let's have a few kilograms of bhang laddus each and forget the bad blood between us, cool?? As is those prohibitionist fucknuts all over the world have already given us enough shit n' bad blood.

Either ways, Mr. Nevermind, where do you want to move to? If you're thinking Asia, I can help you out. I have limited experience in East Asia. Lotsa experience in South and West Asia.

Do you have any particular country in mind? Do you have a idea on what business you want to do (unless you're moving to W. Europe, jobs are for the most part out of the question)? Are you game for "adventure business"- as in business which will have you travel thru the Himalayan Nathu-La pass etc? Do you have any technical skills (eg. motorcycle repair, carpentry) etc? Sorry, if you're thinking Europe I can't help you much tho...

Yes i do have a place in mind. actually doing paperwork now and getting ready to pack my things up in a few months. I plan on moving to Barcelona. As far as work, i am not too concerend the 1st few months with work, but i have been in touch wiht a few companies over there that are in my field ( finance) and it should be no problem to find work for me. However i do have some friends that would like to do move with me and they plan on opening a few different shops. One of which would be a seed biz and grow shop. But i dont know how much if any I'll have to do with that. Plenty of $$ saved and have already looked into cost of living, economy, culture, weather and so on.

I live in the USa but i am not a typical american. Most people tell me i belong in EU. and i happen to agree






Nevermind

 

[Guest]

You read way to far into things and try to rationalize your rants with any comment you can. I said noone cares, people that lick on this thread care about moving to another country. Not the history of tibet. You take my "noone cares' as noone give a piss about tibet so you can ramble more. I mean no one cares in this thread about the history of tibet. You took is as a way to say " noone cares" to preach mmore on this crap. Give it a rest

Mr. N.


the great thing about moving to another culture is that it teaches you the contingency of your own perspective, and at the same time just how small and intimately connected the world is, and humanity is likewise

I believe chosing to live and work in another country is an ethical decision (i.e. that it invloves moral and political considerations)

to me this is clearly entirely salient to a discussion of being an ex-pat

but please feel free to explain to me why you think it isn't, and I will set about explaining why I believe otherwise

disagreement doesn't have to be a problem mate, but I do think you need to temper your ego a touch - there's no need to start being all alpha male about a difference of perspective

Namkha


















PS: Call me Nevermind, Mr Nevermind or Alex. But dont refer to me as "mate". I aint your fuckin mate.[/QUOTE]

 

[Mr. Nevermind]

Mr. N.


the great thing about moving to another culture is that it teaches you the contingency of your own perspective, and at the same time just how small and intimately connected the world is, and humanity is likewise

I believe chosing to live and work in another country is an ethical decision

but please feel free to explain to me why you think it isn't

Namkha


















PS: Call me Nevermind, Mr Nevermind or Alex. But dont refer to me as "mate". I aint your fuckin mate.

[/QUOTE]



Do you just want to argue or something? read my post genius. I plan on moving to another country so why would i argue that its a bad decision? Get a grip man. You are just looking for an arguement. Sad




Nevermind

 

[naga_sadu]

As far as work, i am not too concerend the 1st few months with work, but i have been in touch wiht a few companies over there that are in my field ( finance) and it should be no problem to find work for me.

I seriously recommend you sit down, talk and finalise a deal before moving down there though. As in I'd first request a finalised deal mentioning work conditions, responsibilities, terms + conditions, salary, overtime etc., on a company letter pad signed by the MANAGING DIRECTOR before moving down there. A GM (General Manager) worded letter isin't valid in most countries. The MD (managing director) can still override them. Although Spain is still Europe, the business conditions (at least in the leather industry) is a bit "third worldish"- like in Italy. As in it's not uncommon for things such as price to be "adjusted" in after the goods are dispatched. Again, this is only the leather field that too in an agency biz. I'm not sure about finance job fields, though, sorry couldnt be of much help there.

However i do have some friends that would like to do move with me and they plan on opening a few different shops. One of which would be a seed biz and grow shop. But i dont know how much if any I'll have to do with that

Before investing $$$, I seriously request you tell your friends to work part time in an existing biz for at least a year before investing $$$ in a physical premise. At least from what I've seen, lots of expats tend to know the business pretty well (like how to setup a grow shop) but often negate the local business environment- which cn only be got thru experience. Better yet, it will be great if your friends would see the entire business process in whatever shop they're setting up- right from finding raw material suppliers, buying raw materials, finding buyers, to processing to shipments. I don't want your friends to lose $$$ bro, that all.

Sorry bro I couldn't be of much help. Only done very, very little biz w/ Spain- that too as a leather export agent. If u had Asia in mind, I coulda offered more detail...