dr.bomkfist
Member
I bought a bag of atami bcuzz coco, bag says 0.8-1 EC, the real EC is 1.6.
Test your COCO!!! The B'cuzz I have been using tests at 2000ppm
- Thread starter puff adder
- Start date
puff adder
Member
I'm with you guys, for 10 years now I've used 0-6-9, and Canna or B'cuzz coco straight out of the bag.
When I tested these brands, they tested good, as in runoff being VERY close to the water poured in, maybe 5-10ppm over what went in.
I monitored this last flush, and it took well over 4 gallons through each 2 gallon pot to get the PPM's down into the 300 range from 2000, so I don't know about making the first watering/feeding also acting as the initial rinsing.
If the coco is clean, all I've ever needed to do was add 5ml Cal-Mag (instead of my normal 1-2ml) to charge the coco. Doing this, my babies hit the ground running. Before, the plants would experience an initial yellowing, and then kick in.
Batteries died in my ppm meter, but later today I'm going to test the B'cuzz again, and the Canna coco that I just got.
I'm also going to test the different cocos at the hydro store and post the results.
When I tested these brands, they tested good, as in runoff being VERY close to the water poured in, maybe 5-10ppm over what went in.
I monitored this last flush, and it took well over 4 gallons through each 2 gallon pot to get the PPM's down into the 300 range from 2000, so I don't know about making the first watering/feeding also acting as the initial rinsing.
If the coco is clean, all I've ever needed to do was add 5ml Cal-Mag (instead of my normal 1-2ml) to charge the coco. Doing this, my babies hit the ground running. Before, the plants would experience an initial yellowing, and then kick in.
Batteries died in my ppm meter, but later today I'm going to test the B'cuzz again, and the Canna coco that I just got.
I'm also going to test the different cocos at the hydro store and post the results.
puff adder
Member
OK! Just got back, new batteries, calibrated the meter, and tested different brands of coco.
Brands tested were B'cuzz, Black Gold Just Coir, House and Garden, and Canna.
I will give the PPM's above the test water ppm's. Test water was Britta water at 160ppm's, so actual runoff readings were all 160 above these posted numbers.
B'cuzz 1400
Just Coir 540
House and Garden 130
Canna 100
Brands tested were B'cuzz, Black Gold Just Coir, House and Garden, and Canna.
I will give the PPM's above the test water ppm's. Test water was Britta water at 160ppm's, so actual runoff readings were all 160 above these posted numbers.
B'cuzz 1400
Just Coir 540
House and Garden 130
Canna 100
Now put a plant in each un-rinsed and see which jumps out of the gate the fastest.. wont be the closest test due to differences in clone vigor/quality..but still a good test none the less.
I'd be curious of the results. When running lucas, 1400ppm @.7 conversion was my target ppm immediately after placing rooted cuts under HID light. Under floros 1400ppm might be a tad too hot though.
I'd be curious of the results. When running lucas, 1400ppm @.7 conversion was my target ppm immediately after placing rooted cuts under HID light. Under floros 1400ppm might be a tad too hot though.
puff adder
Member
I've been putting plants into that B'cuzz coco for a while now, so I've seen what that looks like. Curling, burnt leaves, slow growth, red stems. I'm not putting one more plant into that coco, unless it somehow tests OK in the future.
Lately, the plants I've potted into the Canna coco have not skipped a beat. Happy and green and healthy.
Bought a couple bags of House and Garden coco today. It tested good as well, within 30ppm of the Canna. I expect things will go fine with this brand.
Glad to be back to normal.
Lately, the plants I've potted into the Canna coco have not skipped a beat. Happy and green and healthy.
Bought a couple bags of House and Garden coco today. It tested good as well, within 30ppm of the Canna. I expect things will go fine with this brand.
Glad to be back to normal.
I just ran a test on what bcuzz I had on hand.
RO going in was 100ppm
Run-off tested at 870ppm @.7
RO going in was 100ppm
Run-off tested at 870ppm @.7
puff adder
Member
Just retested Canna and House & Garden cocos.
Test water going in was 220 (I know, not "Optimum" for testing) and the Canna runoff was 320 (so 100 over what went in) and House and Garden was 360 (140 over what went in) and I'd say both of these were good to use out of the bag without rinsing, especially if the 1st watering was heavy.
Everybody, Please test your coco, whatever the brand, and post the numbers, so we can get an idea for what brands are generally good, and what brands test high/dirty. Just explain your testing methods, so everyone can make their own conclusions.
With good clean coco, I always add extra cal-mag to the first watering to charge the coco, otherwise I've gotten initial yellowing before the plants kicked in.
Test water going in was 220 (I know, not "Optimum" for testing) and the Canna runoff was 320 (so 100 over what went in) and House and Garden was 360 (140 over what went in) and I'd say both of these were good to use out of the bag without rinsing, especially if the 1st watering was heavy.
Everybody, Please test your coco, whatever the brand, and post the numbers, so we can get an idea for what brands are generally good, and what brands test high/dirty. Just explain your testing methods, so everyone can make their own conclusions.
With good clean coco, I always add extra cal-mag to the first watering to charge the coco, otherwise I've gotten initial yellowing before the plants kicked in.
dr.bomkfist
Member
I checked ph of bcuzz and it's about 7.3, way too high for cann, I think it has dolomite in it as I can see some white powder in the bottom of the probe in which I performed measurement. Flushing with low ph water didn't change the pH.
For coco it should be 5.5-6.2 right?
For coco it should be 5.5-6.2 right?
Man am I glad I found this thread 
The only store around carries House n Garden, Black Gold and B'cuzz.. The Black Gold is $22 and the others are $29. This is because we live on an island and shipping is outrageous.
After reading this thread I'm gonna go with the H&G and will test it and post my results..
I did find 5kg blocks from a local company for cheap 3 blocks for $30. Im gonna pick up a couple of those and test em also.
The only store around carries House n Garden, Black Gold and B'cuzz.. The Black Gold is $22 and the others are $29. This is because we live on an island and shipping is outrageous.After reading this thread I'm gonna go with the H&G and will test it and post my results..
I did find 5kg blocks from a local company for cheap 3 blocks for $30. Im gonna pick up a couple of those and test em also.
puff adder
Member
From what I've read, the blocks can be hit or miss regarding the amounts of salts, but, if washed (or clean), I read that people like the expandable blocks just fine.
Coco is coco, the main difference being the grind consistency, and whether it's clean or not.
So far, all the tests I've done on B'cuzz show that it is Super Dirty.
I sent a well worded message to Atami, after a while I got a response "your request is being processed" is all it said. That doesn't even begin to make me feel any better, or help me in any way, so now (after testing B'cuzz from 4 different stores, and many of the bags i have on hand) I can honestly say stay away from B'cuzz until they fix the situation, especially since they won't do anything about it even when contacted and informed of their crap product. I had hoped they'd offer replacement with some clean coco.
Canna, and House and Garden are the brands testing very good right now for me.
Coco is coco, the main difference being the grind consistency, and whether it's clean or not.
So far, all the tests I've done on B'cuzz show that it is Super Dirty.
I sent a well worded message to Atami, after a while I got a response "your request is being processed" is all it said. That doesn't even begin to make me feel any better, or help me in any way, so now (after testing B'cuzz from 4 different stores, and many of the bags i have on hand) I can honestly say stay away from B'cuzz until they fix the situation, especially since they won't do anything about it even when contacted and informed of their crap product. I had hoped they'd offer replacement with some clean coco.
Canna, and House and Garden are the brands testing very good right now for me.
Most of what we find in the coco bags sold in the US is FROM the compressed blocks. Companies are just expanding this stuff/rinsing "in-house" and bagging it up. Most I assume are doing quality control tests to see a low EC before bagging, but that would depend on the company. The raw blocks are heavily salted and fumigated, etc before coming over ta boot. Nasty stuff - but fine once rinsed/expanded.
I wouldn't exactly call Bcuzz "super dirty". The stuff is pre-charged with some calcium nitrite to prevent early cal deficiency as coco likes to hang onto it. Works for me and all of the other growers I know using it without issue. Again - my recent batch contained 750ppm @.7 or so... and doesn't cause my plants any harm going straight into it without rinsing. Not as high as yours is testing however so maybe its either particular batches or geographical related.
Bcuzz isnt going to "fix" the problem because they intentionally pre-charge their coco with calcium. Many rinse their coco and then charge themselves.. Atami has done this for us.
dr.bomkfist
Member
Bcuzz coco that I checked was around 1.0 EC (slurry test). The bag said that it has nutrients added, maybe that's why the EC is so high, not salt (NaCl) problem???
puff adder
Member
I don't have any more bags handy, but can someone please post exactly what it says on the bags? I recently remember reading the bags and don't recall them saying anything about added nutrients, only something about added beneficials or something.
I tested B'cuzz a long time ago (it tested very good along with Canna), maybe they've changed their formula since then, but 1600-2000 ppm runoff is not OK.
I also tested bags from many sources, so like you say, maybe it's geographical, but even 750ppm is what I would consider too high to use without rinsing. The 10 or so bags I had, and other bags from 4 different stores all tested between 1600 and 2000.
Since switching back to Canna, my issues have miraculously disappeared, so I'm pretty sure the issues I was having were due to dirty/salty B'cuzz coco.
I tested B'cuzz a long time ago (it tested very good along with Canna), maybe they've changed their formula since then, but 1600-2000 ppm runoff is not OK.
I also tested bags from many sources, so like you say, maybe it's geographical, but even 750ppm is what I would consider too high to use without rinsing. The 10 or so bags I had, and other bags from 4 different stores all tested between 1600 and 2000.
Since switching back to Canna, my issues have miraculously disappeared, so I'm pretty sure the issues I was having were due to dirty/salty B'cuzz coco.
750 @.7 doesnt seem to cause any adverse effects in my garden. I normally use nutrient 6/9 cut in half on top of this coco right out of the bag..however I have no problem hitting em full 6/9 if under HPS after rooting.
My Atami Bcuzz bag states an EC value of...
0,3 ms/cm
If that is .3 EC then certainly my run-off is coming off much higher then what they are saying is should read at.
I've got to do some potting soon so I'm curious what future bags are going to test at. I normally never test, but now this thread and sparked curiosity in what I've been doing.
My Atami Bcuzz bag states an EC value of...
0,3 ms/cm
If that is .3 EC then certainly my run-off is coming off much higher then what they are saying is should read at.
I've got to do some potting soon so I'm curious what future bags are going to test at. I normally never test, but now this thread and sparked curiosity in what I've been doing.
dr.bomkfist
Member
my bag said it has added nutrient dose for start, I live in europe
weeddaddy50
Member
Glad I found this
Glad I found this
Just switched over to coco last week from soil....using B'cuz...first table has jumped the first week...and just replanted another table yesterday...I did not test the runoff, but will now check it after this thread......I am all orgainc nutrients at 1200-1400 ppm at .7.
Man I sure hope I do not have one of those 2000 ppm bags, but will post up my results.
thanks.
Glad I found this
Just switched over to coco last week from soil....using B'cuz...first table has jumped the first week...and just replanted another table yesterday...I did not test the runoff, but will now check it after this thread......I am all orgainc nutrients at 1200-1400 ppm at .7.
Man I sure hope I do not have one of those 2000 ppm bags, but will post up my results.
thanks.
S
stony2
they all have high EC values out of the bag, no matter the supplier.. use them a couple of weeks and the substances will be washed out and your drain will measure approximately the same as your nutrient solution
also you should realize that high EC is not necessarly "toxic". it depends on which substances cause the high conductivity. some do not interfere with the plants, so the high EC is irrelevant
canna cogr has an EC of 3 or upwards straight out of the box, which is ppm > 2000. clones still grow perfectly in it
also you should realize that high EC is not necessarly "toxic". it depends on which substances cause the high conductivity. some do not interfere with the plants, so the high EC is irrelevant
canna cogr has an EC of 3 or upwards straight out of the box, which is ppm > 2000. clones still grow perfectly in it
Yo, according to green's horticulture the b'cuzz stuff has a decent bit of fert's added, especially nitrogen, which would explain why the more you flush it the higher the runoff ec gets (for a while), as N is leachable (so excessive flushing could just be wasteful, and if anything cause more problems by upsetting the 'buffer' balance, and adding too much calcium by 'flushing' with tapwater (and leaching out the other nutrients). Also as coco is not a neutral medium it constantly & slowly decomposes giving off, iirc, potassium, calcium and magnesium?
I'm guessing additive's like enzyme's, humic and fulvic acid's, and other 'boosters' affecting cation exhange and nutrient availability would all effect the rate at which Ion's were charged/made available too..
I'm trying the ikea brand coco at the mo ('Kokosnot', lol) and it has a similarly high ec to those you guys are reporting, which worried me at first, despite the plants taking to it well (and the packet saying 'this contains enough fertilizer for the first 3-6 weeks).
Most of the more experienced and able coco growers I have spoken to suggest, like a few previous posters, only soaking and not rinsing the coco, and ignoring the runoff ec entirely (most coco manufacturers seem to suggest the same, at least with 'buffered'/'premium' coir products).. I have been monitoring it just for interests sake and because I like probing stuff (lol) and it has been getting steadily lower and lower every feed, but it's still slightly higher than what goes in. Not to say anyone who rinses their coco (and get's good results) is wrong to do so, but IF you can get the same results without pissing about and wasting resources why bother..
I'm guessing additive's like enzyme's, humic and fulvic acid's, and other 'boosters' affecting cation exhange and nutrient availability would all effect the rate at which Ion's were charged/made available too..
I'm trying the ikea brand coco at the mo ('Kokosnot', lol) and it has a similarly high ec to those you guys are reporting, which worried me at first, despite the plants taking to it well (and the packet saying 'this contains enough fertilizer for the first 3-6 weeks).
Most of the more experienced and able coco growers I have spoken to suggest, like a few previous posters, only soaking and not rinsing the coco, and ignoring the runoff ec entirely (most coco manufacturers seem to suggest the same, at least with 'buffered'/'premium' coir products).. I have been monitoring it just for interests sake and because I like probing stuff (lol) and it has been getting steadily lower and lower every feed, but it's still slightly higher than what goes in. Not to say anyone who rinses their coco (and get's good results) is wrong to do so, but IF you can get the same results without pissing about and wasting resources why bother..
'Also as coco is not a neutral medium it constantly & slowly decomposes giving off, iirc, potassium, calcium and magnesium?
I'm guessing additive's like enzyme's, humic and fulvic acid's, and other 'boosters' affecting cation exhange and nutrient availability would all effect the rate at which Ion's were charged/made available too..'
- Sorry this is obviously axiomatic/a given, I just mean what people are flushing/rinsing their coco with, the type of nutrients used (level of chelation, etc), and obviously the temperature of the solution will all affect the results of runoff, and so it might not be all that useful comparing results, unless everyone is using the same solution/water.
I'm guessing additive's like enzyme's, humic and fulvic acid's, and other 'boosters' affecting cation exhange and nutrient availability would all effect the rate at which Ion's were charged/made available too..'
- Sorry this is obviously axiomatic/a given, I just mean what people are flushing/rinsing their coco with, the type of nutrients used (level of chelation, etc), and obviously the temperature of the solution will all affect the results of runoff, and so it might not be all that useful comparing results, unless everyone is using the same solution/water.
