Mia
Active member
If you reuse it then definitely you're right it becomes much more economical and less of an issue.
I don't reuse my coco.
I got enough work to do...
Test your COCO!!! The B'cuzz I have been using tests at 2000ppm
- Thread starter puff adder
- Start date
If you reuse it then definitely you're right it becomes much more economical and less of an issue.
I don't reuse my coco.
I got enough work to do...
Nonphixion
Active member
Yes, I still have a brick and a half laying around. I thought it was just a silly mistake on my part as I put 6 germ'd Jack Frost beans with 3mm taproots. Then placed them directly in coco/perlite mix and watered heavily but as soon as they went in there they stopped growing.
I thought it was the lack of moisture that killed them (it seemed to dry out more than twice as fast as soil) or my inexperience with coco. Now, with this thread, it seems it may have been poisonous coco!
I thought it was the lack of moisture that killed them (it seemed to dry out more than twice as fast as soil) or my inexperience with coco. Now, with this thread, it seems it may have been poisonous coco!
D
DHF
Coco`s the shit Bro.....Butchas gotta understand what it takes for the perfect mix for that all but fast hydro explosive rootmass growth.....and yeah...^ that was the only coco i have ever used and it produced the worst yields i've ever seen indoors in 10 years...
When i tested it years ago i changed nothing(except ph which i kept between 5.8 and 6.2) from previous runs in the same room with Pro-Mix. I used the same nutes, same grow style and strain, same environmental conditions. I yielded double than my run with Gh Coco bricks... i even added Botanicare's Cal-Mag to my nutrient line up and i still came out with half the yield that i had been getting with Pro-Mix.
This year i thought hmmm, maybe i'll give it a shot again since the manufacturers that make it must have the Quality Control down pat by now, 6 years after my initial attempt..... But nope, no chance.....It's still a gamble.... so i'll stick to my Pro-Mix thnx very much!
The inconsistencies in each and every product even if they`re in the same bag can vary from bag to bag , from pallet to pallet regardless of what`s on the label so I understand your concern and not wantin ta leave your pro-mix comfort zone......but....
If yas take the time to mix 1/3 stringy fibers with another 1/3 of croutons/husks , and top it off with chunky/coarse perlite , yas can keep the medium moist and extremely aerated for as fast a rootmass growth before end of stretch I ever saw compared to fast hydro....
I never saw the big deal about havin ta wash and prep the shit for the kinda results that were more than worth it cuz anything worth doin`s worth doin right , but nowadays dripclean has all but eliminated DTW for coco and it`s a lot easier to dial in @ 1 ml per gal rather than H&G`s suggestion of .4 ml per.....anyways....
Every medium hasta be dialed be it lil clay balls or lavarock like I ran for almost 15 yrs before changin over to coco for easier maintenance , and wasted the piss outta runoff juice to prevent residual salts buildups cuz there was no dripclean back then.....
Not to mention all the fine coffee grounds/mushy shit that came outta the bales and down the drain during the hydration/pre-treating process....but...again....results spoke for themselves....
Once dialed coco`s unsurpassed for K.I.S.S. with returns to prove it ....Just gotta have a copy of the rules....then it`s simple....babyshit....
Coco and blumats ftw....bet on it....
Peace...DHF....
....
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Applesauce
Member
Every bag of Botanicare I've used comes out at 500 ppm initially with 150 ppm tap going in. Not a big deal as a 10 minute rinse brings it down to 200 but not perfect.
I hear ya DHF, but it's too problematic for my liking.. too much variability when buying/using it. Why would i waste money and extra time on an inconsistent medium?
the 3 pages of replies in here about inconsistencies in different Coco products is testament to the fact that this "wonder medium" is still in it's infancy....
No disrespect to people who yield really big with Coco, i respect y'all even more based on the special needs it has.
the 3 pages of replies in here about inconsistencies in different Coco products is testament to the fact that this "wonder medium" is still in it's infancy....
No disrespect to people who yield really big with Coco, i respect y'all even more based on the special needs it has.
Applesauce
Member
If it says anything I have a large amount of mixed pro-mix/perlite that has been sitting for over a year after using coco. I have zero desire to go back. There is nothing a large rubbermaid with holes drilled into the bottom, and a garden hose won't fix as far as knocking the ppm down within 10 minutes.
Vic Hammer
Member
The problem, for me, is that some of these manufacturers are making specific claims about the quality of their coco. They're stating EC and pH and their product, at times, is not even close to the stated numbers. The RHP, is certifying these products so the consumer can feel confident that product is safe for use straight out of the bag. These products are supposed to be washed and buffered by the manufacturer so the user does not have to perform these tasks. The cocos such as B'cuzz are meant to be used straight out of the bag.
DHF, you were obviously buying unwashed/unbuffered coco. Makes sense that you would have to go through that process. And, of course, anyone reusing coco will need to rinse and treat for reuse.
My point is that if a manufacturer is going to claim EC 0.3 and ph is 6.1 then the product better come out of the bag at those numbers. At least be close. EC's of 2.8 straight out of the bag are ridiculous.
Quality control.
DHF, you were obviously buying unwashed/unbuffered coco. Makes sense that you would have to go through that process. And, of course, anyone reusing coco will need to rinse and treat for reuse.
My point is that if a manufacturer is going to claim EC 0.3 and ph is 6.1 then the product better come out of the bag at those numbers. At least be close. EC's of 2.8 straight out of the bag are ridiculous.
Quality control.
Vic Hammer
Member
pH should be good. Coco buffers pH really well, it's definitely one of cocos strong points. Coco really locks in 5.5. - 6.5. I don't think I've ever tested coco and gotten a reading that was not 5.8 - 6.0 range.
For testing I've been using the Pour Through Method. I haven't been making any slurries. I do intend to and then use a 1:1.5, coco:distilled H20, ratio for testing. I still have some B'cuzz that tested high with the Pour Through which I want to test in a slurry.
Vic Hammer
Member
Yep, that is the moral to the story. Always check a fresh bag.
Now, as far as getting saltier as it dries this should not be a problem. Seriously, how salty can a product that is "supposed" to be EC 0.3 really get? Also, I recently brought home a bag of Biobizz coco mix from the hydro guy that I had opened at least one month earlier to compare its texture to the B'cuzz. I tested it at home, cause I was thinking the same thing about the drying, and it was the same as Biobizz states, 0.3. Now, mind you, the bag wasn't totally dry but was considerably drier than a sealed one.
No excuses for the coco manufacturer. They need to produce a consistent product that matches their claims or gtfo. Especially if they are going to put a certification one it, such as RHP.
So you folks are flushing with NON-PH'ed tap water? That has always scared me as pouring a few gallons of 7.8 water through my coco always seemed counter intuitive. But i suppose all the 5.8 water its going to get for the rest of its life may well just make that non-ph'ed water meaningless.
I would seriously recommend slurry tests, as i have tested runoff and gotten 2.5 EC readings, and then followed up with a slurry and its been around .4 EC. Not sure how or why that has happened but it is the case more than once. Anyone have any theories?
Good luck coconauts!
I would seriously recommend slurry tests, as i have tested runoff and gotten 2.5 EC readings, and then followed up with a slurry and its been around .4 EC. Not sure how or why that has happened but it is the case more than once. Anyone have any theories?
Good luck coconauts!
puff adder
Member
As a rule (for me), with coco, anything that goes in, or touches coco is properly PH'd.
That means no straight tap water. I just flushed a LOT of pots, which meant many many resevoir loads of PH'd water.
When I tried using tap water to water plants in, and then going back and feeding with PH'd solution, I got serious issues, PH issues, so now anything that touches my coco is PH'd.
That means no straight tap water. I just flushed a LOT of pots, which meant many many resevoir loads of PH'd water.
When I tried using tap water to water plants in, and then going back and feeding with PH'd solution, I got serious issues, PH issues, so now anything that touches my coco is PH'd.
I hear ya DHF, but it's too problematic for my liking.. too much variability when buying/using it. Why would i waste money and extra time on an inconsistent medium?
the 3 pages of replies in here about inconsistencies in different Coco products is testament to the fact that this "wonder medium" is still in it's infancy....
No disrespect to people who yield really big with Coco, i respect y'all even more based on the special needs it has.
Inconsitencies in the coco or not I wouldn't exactly call it special needs. Its just like any other hydro medium. Hydroton- ya gotta rinse it. Rockwool- ya gotta pre-soak/pH adjust it. Are those special needs? I've experience the opposite.. coco has been one of the least problematic mediums I've used.
I use Bcuzz coco right out of the bag.. 6mL Micro / 9mL Bloom.. and am getting around 1.5lbs per light. I dont rinse it and I dont mess around with a ton of additives.
I guess its as special needs as one makes it. I have been using Atami for nearly 10 years right out of the bag. I have never tested EC and don't care to. It gives me consistent results out of the bag and that is all that matters. If in the future I have trouble then maybe I'll look into testing it but despite others saying it has a high EC.. who cares if the plants dont? Not me.
But perhaps in the 10 years I've been using it I havnt experience a high EC bag that a lot of people are posting about... who knows.. I havnt burnt anything yet..
For those that worry - sure ...test your bags... I'm going to continue using it right out of the bag and take my chances..
- -
The bottom line is that all coco is manufactured (if you want to call it that) in the same place. Its just coconut husk so I wouldnt exactly call it manufactured.
Its ground up coconut husk that lays around in giant piles in sri lanka and gets rinsed by rainwater AND sea water (I'm sure that doesnt help with salts..
). If Sri Lanka doesnt get a lot of rainfall in such period of time its going to be saltier then other times. Thats its.. Sri Lanka has strict polices regarding the use of fresh water. Simply put these coconut "manufacturers" are not ALLOWED to rinse it with fresh water. Fresh water is just too scarce for this purpose.So.. unless your getting your coco "in-house" brand from some local shops who are rinshing/flushing it stateside you are likely to experience variances in salts regardless of brand, but aside from some unwrapped compressed blocks my shop sells I have yet to use a bag of "ready to go" coco lead to issues.
just my 2c. Not intending to refute anyone.. just stating what I've experience in using A LOT of coco.
E
elmanito
What i've learned is that good quality cocos has to be washed and buffered before you can use it.Try to get Gold Label or any other brand which has done the same wit their cocos.
Namaste
Namaste
D
DHF
Flower Farmer....Bro ....It`s all good cuz the "out of the bag" shit`s SUPPOSED ta be pre-washed and treated with calcium nitrate for the inherent "cation exchange capacity" coco has for holding onto cal/mag as well as potassium/K , so it stands to good reason why you`re so confident in the way you use your medium........but....
When I switched over from hydro , I had several locations with 512 plants in # 5 smartpots that required assloads of medium , thus why I bought pallets of dried bales shipped to Hell and knew I`d haveta do the washin and pre-treatin the shit myself and was fine with it cuz that way I KNEW what my bitches were gettin planted in for production purposes with no chance of fuckin up.....but...
About the dryin out/oxidizin and gettin saltier thingy I was referring to was about the dried/hydrated bales , cuz I lost several flip rooms after properly hydrating/pre-treating and ph`ed solution before up-pottin fully rooted/pre-vegged cuts into the sp`s for movement into the flip rooms......and...
What started out as pre-washed in the 200 ppm range with ph in the high 5`s ended up after 2 weeks and at least 256 plants dead burnt slap up and fried revealed to me the medium had lied to me and was waaaaaay more toxic than anything I`d ever dealt with and it never showed up till once in the flip rooms under the HID lights where the evaporation and feed sequences were intermittent during 12 hr lights on periods....then....
After mourning for the dead I checked the pots and the ppm`s were in the 4000 range/8EC.....Hell.....
I cleaned out the pots and threw ALL that shit out in the cow pasture at my farm and the shit BURNED the damn grass up......killed the shit graveyard dead....so.....again...
All coco is not the same and I`m not sure it`ll ever be governed and brought under ANY type quality control since it`s as FF said....
The shit`s coco husks that ONLY gets de-salinated when it rains in Sri Lanka , and the different companies that buy that shit in shipping containers full and bag it up with their name on it aren`t about to spend the bucks it takes to actually ph balance and control ppm`s for pot growers....so....again...
Caveat Emptor and wash your own shit if you`re runnin coco for production , or...spend the extra cash to buy supposedly pre-washed pre-treated expensive bags...and.....
I wouldn`t trust that shit either but as FF says , he`s never had a problem in 10 yrs , so it`s the roll of the dice IME over the yrs.........Nuff said...
Peace....DHF.....
When I switched over from hydro , I had several locations with 512 plants in # 5 smartpots that required assloads of medium , thus why I bought pallets of dried bales shipped to Hell and knew I`d haveta do the washin and pre-treatin the shit myself and was fine with it cuz that way I KNEW what my bitches were gettin planted in for production purposes with no chance of fuckin up.....but...
About the dryin out/oxidizin and gettin saltier thingy I was referring to was about the dried/hydrated bales , cuz I lost several flip rooms after properly hydrating/pre-treating and ph`ed solution before up-pottin fully rooted/pre-vegged cuts into the sp`s for movement into the flip rooms......and...
What started out as pre-washed in the 200 ppm range with ph in the high 5`s ended up after 2 weeks and at least 256 plants dead burnt slap up and fried revealed to me the medium had lied to me and was waaaaaay more toxic than anything I`d ever dealt with and it never showed up till once in the flip rooms under the HID lights where the evaporation and feed sequences were intermittent during 12 hr lights on periods....then....
After mourning for the dead I checked the pots and the ppm`s were in the 4000 range/8EC.....Hell.....
I cleaned out the pots and threw ALL that shit out in the cow pasture at my farm and the shit BURNED the damn grass up......killed the shit graveyard dead....so.....again...
All coco is not the same and I`m not sure it`ll ever be governed and brought under ANY type quality control since it`s as FF said....
The shit`s coco husks that ONLY gets de-salinated when it rains in Sri Lanka , and the different companies that buy that shit in shipping containers full and bag it up with their name on it aren`t about to spend the bucks it takes to actually ph balance and control ppm`s for pot growers....so....again...
Caveat Emptor and wash your own shit if you`re runnin coco for production , or...spend the extra cash to buy supposedly pre-washed pre-treated expensive bags...and.....
I wouldn`t trust that shit either but as FF says , he`s never had a problem in 10 yrs , so it`s the roll of the dice IME over the yrs.........Nuff said...
Peace....DHF.....
puff adder
Member
I too have used B'cuzz off and on for many years, out of the bag. Canna and B'cuzz are what I've suggested as being good to use out of the bag for many years, because they tested good over the years.
2000ppm is what I recently tested out of the B'cuzz bag, and that is not acceptable, especially for what they charge for the stuff. This also coincides with the issues that I've had recently. Since flushing, and switching back to Canna, my girls are back to happy, healthy green, no leaf curling.
I've learned (again, never ending process) that you can't assume anything is fine. Test your COCO!
2000ppm is what I recently tested out of the B'cuzz bag, and that is not acceptable, especially for what they charge for the stuff. This also coincides with the issues that I've had recently. Since flushing, and switching back to Canna, my girls are back to happy, healthy green, no leaf curling.
I've learned (again, never ending process) that you can't assume anything is fine. Test your COCO!
I think my post might read wrong then how it came out in my head...
I'm in no way trying to discourage anyone from testing their coco. By all means to be sure... test that shit.
I'm merely stating my experience with Atami (Bcuzz) coco. Its worked for me every time out of the bag 10 yrs running.. If that's your problem puff adder then I'm glad you figured it out and are back on the road to healthy gardening.
I've got a few friends that are super particular with their coco (same exact stuff I use). They also have stated high PPMs out of the bag and complain about having to flush it before using it. My argument is that I use the same stuff and never flush it... but they still continue to stress themselves out over their coco. Why.. ya got me.
Perhaps I never have issue with possible high EC coco is because I am essentially flushing them pretty good my 1st watering. I go into solo cups after rooting so my initial watering produces a bit of run-off. I imagine it doesnt take much to flush a Pt of coco..
So I've gotta ask the question.. Why the extra step?
Why not just pot up and make your initial watering your "rinse". If I go into "salty" coco and my 1st watering it an ample amount of 6/9 6.0pH (or any diluted base nute) then am I not achieving the same thing...flushing any salt in the coco and charging the coco with my desired mix.
Why make it a process?... why not just give your plants a good watering with run-off after being potted into new coco.
I'm in no way trying to discourage anyone from testing their coco. By all means to be sure... test that shit.
I'm merely stating my experience with Atami (Bcuzz) coco. Its worked for me every time out of the bag 10 yrs running.. If that's your problem puff adder then I'm glad you figured it out and are back on the road to healthy gardening.
I've got a few friends that are super particular with their coco (same exact stuff I use). They also have stated high PPMs out of the bag and complain about having to flush it before using it. My argument is that I use the same stuff and never flush it... but they still continue to stress themselves out over their coco. Why.. ya got me.
Perhaps I never have issue with possible high EC coco is because I am essentially flushing them pretty good my 1st watering. I go into solo cups after rooting so my initial watering produces a bit of run-off. I imagine it doesnt take much to flush a Pt of coco..
So I've gotta ask the question.. Why the extra step?
Why not just pot up and make your initial watering your "rinse". If I go into "salty" coco and my 1st watering it an ample amount of 6/9 6.0pH (or any diluted base nute) then am I not achieving the same thing...flushing any salt in the coco and charging the coco with my desired mix.
Why make it a process?... why not just give your plants a good watering with run-off after being potted into new coco.
