Terpin production according to nutrients

[Only Ornamental]

This is interesting:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=272162

It would be even more interesting if:
A) The results were unambiguous (e.g. side-by-side, opinions)
B) The (active) ingredients were known

They claim that a PhD scientist (hey, you can 'rent' my PhD too ROFL) helped them develop it which leads people to believe that there's a rational explanation, a distinct mode of action, involved.
Question is, which one?
- Nutrient sensing: I judge that highly unlikely as it's an additive to a full feeding regime. Besides, the 'severe' reactions of a plant aren't the result of excess rather than deficiency.
- Hormones: Do they count as nutrient when given with the fertiliser? Other signalling molecules and second messengers as those below?
- Jasmonic acid signalling (which can be triggered by adding 'nutrients') would be one possibility and hence also salicylic acid cause they are mutually antagonistic in many regards.
- Sugar signalling: But how? Which sugars? I have a fair idea of what seems to work (anecdotal 'evidence') in young plants but beyond that...
- Nitric oxide might do something, or rather NO does do a lot of things. But can we exploit it to affect terpene production and what's the best way to do so. Again, I have only anecdotal 'evidence' (which is so anecdotal that sharing it would be negligence).
- Hydrogen peroxide is another signalling molecule involved in several cross-talks. People use it broadly for a lot of things but from what I've seen, 'germination' it the only scientifically funded application. Could it be used for more? I do not know.

Anything else that comes to mind?

 

[Bubbleblower]

And the temps outdoors in November, December? that is when an outdoor Haze will mature, even in Humboldt

Thanks for proving my point about the temperatures, as you know Humboldt gets colder at night than the Kop van Noord Holland around that time, especially in the mountains! ​

​

you say Haze can be grown outdoors in the Netherlands

​

What I know is what we call purple haze can be grown easily and is the most popular here. You know first hand how we got it.​

​

In S. Ca. back then they had something completely “new”; indica's. ​

When I went back to Holland my friends wouldn't even believe that really existed.​

Nobody was growing indica's, we didn't even know what they were, we always grew sativa's.​

​

I tried to inform you

​

Too late, I have already grown the very best weed in the Kop van Noord Holland, so you can no longer inform me or anybody that is not possible. ​

It is and I collected all the pieces of the puzzle how so. ​

This is interesting:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=272162

Exactly, that's why I keep bringing it up again and again in pretty much all the posts I made itt, for example here: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=6865837&postcount=63

 

[genedigger]

cannabis has a short generation.its an annual plant.some folks have been growing the same strain outdoors for many many years and im sure you could acclimate a plant so that it performs better in a certain climate.i live in a northern area and there are some old school growers who have been growing the same seeds from way back in the 80s and they have got these wicked lookin sativas finnishing on time or close.

 

[DooDahMan]

The WUR (leading agricultural university) grows 30ft cannabis trees (actual 30ft not forum 30ft) right here:

 

[DooDahMan]

Oh that's great, I can't edit yet, I meant 18ft

 

[Popice]

.

.

How far do terpene percents fluctuate in each part of the plant, at what time schedule, in relation to what outside factors, and what is the process of curing in relation to final moisture content (degradation)? i gather the point is finding average terpene profiles and how they interact with average cannabinoid profiles based off of high and low "bracketing"; using epigenetics to fill out for the plants average. With growth changes (HL45), i would assume percent changes but not whole profile changes. I assume difference has to be a lack of potential, but could still be preferential. growing for purity as opposed to idealized perfection.
i dont think major changes in cannabinoid or terpene profiles should happen within healthy stable plants. the goal being an area, not necessarily specific, like how human facial/body structure can change with personality. With progeny, sometimes things not seen in either parent do show up, how far down the genetic line is something else. have we figured out dominant and recessive ratios? is there a relation of terpenes to cannabinoid content? is that genetic? i am coming at this from seeing related plants being so similar but different, different profiles with slightly different structure. one plant could be slightly different, but theres no way it will ever become its sister. like i cant believe i should pick the plant that produces more resin because i can get the terpene profile to change with different compost if i prefer the high and flavor of the plant with less resin even if both were a base of floral, one being sweeter as opposed to grassy or funk. Those profiles should stay the same. Then how do terpenes relate to growth and vigor if such fluctuations can happen during a lifecycle. not just specifics but base notes through top notes in relation to cannabinoids.
Now to add medical, how does this begin to affect our human brain and body? i dont think we've fully mapped that but having one side done is the right direction...
now to jump back a little i think domesticated animal use would do unbelievable things to picking plants in a field through terpene profiles, or other things as well. sticking with terpenes, dogs would probably be able to be trained to pick up average ratios. say you not only wanted this and that but more of this than that. to work with an animal through the whole process may actually even end up with more of their preference than your own.

 

[Bubbleblower]

is there a relation of terpenes to cannabinoid content?

Under natural conditions more cannabinoïds also mean more terpenoïds.
In most growrooms it's the other way around though and we sacrifice terpenoïds for cannabinoïds.
That is supposed to make it better, but it really got a lot worse since we started doing that.

In hindsight most people stopped growing good weed when seed companies started advertising THC levels.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

FYI,
No greenhouses in ‘Kop van Noord-Holland’????
-SamS

Between the greenhouse complexes in the ‘Kop van Noord-Holland’, a gargantuous data centre for Microsoft will start to emerge at the beginning of next year. A computer shed full of servers, instead of greenhouses full of tomatoes and other vegetables. Nobody should be surprised, when this would not be the last of its kind in this region.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

The WUR (leading agricultural university) grows 30ft cannabis trees (actual 30ft not forum 30ft) right here:

View Image

They were hemp, not drug Cannabis. Grown for fiber, not flowers with Cannabinoids, terpenes.
-SamS

 

[coneconington]

Not sure how old this is, but,,, From my experience they do. I had friends that always used dutch pro and it'd always have the same underlying scent and taste, regardless of strain. House and garden don't affect taste ime, but iv never used their full line so can't fully say. Iv seen the same thing with guano, you can really taste it even after an extended flush.

 

[Bubbleblower]

FYI,
No greenhouses in ‘Kop van Noord-Holland’????

No, but go ahead and keep searching as it's so relevant and important.

Meanwhile let's try to get back on topic.
Flowers do excellent in the Netherlands OUTSIDE, Holland is actually famous for that.
These same flowers didn't do so well before in Istanbul, Vienna or Gent or all the other places they tried since the tulipmania.
In the Netherlands they only do so well in specific area's near the coast.

We all grow flowers too so it might be interesting to know what makes these area's so specific.

As you can see in my avator cannabis grows excellent there as well.
Other places in the Netherlands they can grow 3.5 meters or so, while there they get over 5 meters (which is ~3 times as big).

 

[FatherEarth]

Terpene talk debated like quantum physics. LOL

 

[vitamingreeninc]

So no general consensus on nutes then and an interesting topic turned into a "mines bigger," contest eh? Shoot, I've been looking for an additive such as bloombastic, terpinator, bud candy, Loquid KoolBloom, shooting powder, MOAB?

Anyway, just to mess with y'all about growing outside..All I ever see is Cali this, west coast that. The best MJ, narrow-leaf, will be grown in the SE US as soon as it's legal there. It will be grown there allllllll year round too, since the winters are so mild/non-existent. You have to have Mold resistant strains but man is that a good climate

 

[MountZionCollec]

I spent half a year in the Netherlands and it seemed like the opposite place for quality: wet, cool, humid, low sun intensity and uv index, low number days/hours of sun during flowering.

My wife is from the Bordeaux region and I also lived their for half a year and a some more visits and it is also a very poor place for growing cannabis. The humidity is about 80% like all year lol. Also their soil is shit devoid of nutrients people don't know shit about "terroir" miscommunicated into the American brain it's a much more complex idea that got taken over by Cali wine farmers and now by Cali cannabis farmers.

I agree with Sam the skunkman southern cali is perfect but with the water situation, especially down there, and the climate towards cannabis in that area I don't see much opportunity for big production though I'm sure their will be a some who work it out.

For optimum terpene production we need increased resin production which means a dry climate low humidity, strong/broad sun spectrum/intensity (higher altitude and lower latitude), long number of hours/days of sun (worse as u move up in lat) and decent comfortable temperatures Until December. At least that's the idea I used when analyzing the climate maps of Cali looking for my farm and home.

In the USA that leaves the Sierra Nevadas to southern Cali and east through southwest in specific microclimates before swamps lands and Midwest which is downright awful for growing cannabis. I'm Indiana born and raised and your options for growing quality their are limited to say the least.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I agree 100% but what do I know?
I have grown in more countries than most people visit in their lives, but I am sure Kop van Noord-Holland is an excellent place for the quality that Bubbleblower thinks is the best of the best Haze.
I will continue to disagree. But I do agree that the subject is nutrients and terpenes, so back to it.
I have found that organic grows with massive root systems gives the best terpene result, that and the right genetics.
I even have experimented with cutting the top half or more of the plant just before flowering, it helped a lot if you do not mind the loss of total yield, what I got was more resinous and higher in terpenes, not as high as if I had grown it in Kop van Noord-Holland, LOL, but I tried to increase terpenes and it did work by altering the root to flower ratios. More roots is better. I find that lower temps, not fricking to hot, as well as lower lumins at the end of flowering seem to help also. And higher temps and higher lumins are not what you want at the end of flowering.
-SamS

I spent half a year in the Netherlands and it seemed like the opposite place for quality: wet, cool, humid, low sun intensity and uv index, low number days/hours of sun during flowering.

My wife is from the Bordeaux region and I also lived their for half a year and a some more visits and it is also a very poor place for growing cannabis. The humidity is about 80% like all year lol. Also their soil is shit devoid of nutrients people don't know shit about "terroir" miscommunicated into the American brain it's a much more complex idea that got taken over by Cali wine farmers and now by Cali cannabis farmers.

I agree with Sam the skunkman southern cali is perfect but with the water situation, especially down there, and the climate towards cannabis in that area I don't see much opportunity for big production though I'm sure their will be a some who work it out.

For optimum terpene production we need increased resin production which means a dry climate low humidity, strong/broad sun spectrum/intensity (higher altitude and lower latitude), long number of hours/days of sun (worse as u move up in lat) and decent comfortable temperatures Until December. At least that's the idea I used when analyzing the climate maps of Cali looking for my farm and home.

In the USA that leaves the Sierra Nevadas to southern Cali and east through southwest in specific microclimates before swamps lands and Midwest which is downright awful for growing cannabis. I'm Indiana born and raised and your options for growing quality their are limited to say the least.

 

[ChaosCatalunya]

...... //..... I find that lower temps, not fricking to hot, as well as lower lumins at the end of flowering seem to help also. And higher temps and higher lumins are not what you want at the end of flowering.
-SamS
-SamS

Exactly, which is why I always tell people, especially those struggling indoors in the Summer, to turn off half their lights and raise the rest for the last 2 odd weeks of flower, you loose nothing noticeable by then either, as all the calyxs have formed by then, you are just fattening what you already have.

More than anything it is to protect the terpenes.

 

[Bubbleblower]

I am sure Kop van Noord-Holland is an excellent place for the quality that Bubbleblower thinks is the best of the best Haze.

it wasn't high quality, hardly worth growing.

It turned out the problem wasn't with the climate though, but with the crappy genetics.
The Kop van Noord-Holland with it's unique microclimate, is indeed an excellent place for the quality that I think is the best of the best.
Granted you need this (look how much sun de Kooij gets compared to the rest of the Netherlands, an hour per day more) IN DUTCH:
http://www.knmi.nl/klimatologie/maand_en_seizoensoverzichten/jaar/jaar14.html

I spent half a year in the Netherlands and it seemed like the opposite place for quality: wet, cool, humid, low sun intensity and uv index, low number days/hours of sun during flowering.

My wife is from the Bordeaux region

Our weather now is the same as it was in the Bordeaux region -coincidentally- 14 years ago (according to the Dutch meteorologic institute, KNMI).
As a matter of fact right now we have 96 degrees in the shade;
Today temperatures in parts of the UK and Europe set to be the highest ever recorded as the whole planet bakes

The humidity is about 80% like all year lol.

That makes it so perfect for sativa's that really want this high humidity.
THE most important nutrient to increase terpenoid production is water!

More than anything it is to protect the terpenes.

Exactly, that's why it shouldn't be too hot like in eeeehm the desert.

Terpene talk debated like quantum physics.

I keep telling you that's what it is
Boron_trifluoride

 

[FatherEarth]

what zodiac sign should I plant in to get the most terpenes?

 

[FatherEarth]

heat waves and periods of drought lasting more than a decade are normal. We know this from observing tree ring growth of old forests.
The thin rings indicate periods of drought. They happen in cycles. ... there is an article on this in the Albrecht soil library online....

 

[Montuno]

But that is not relevant, we are only interested in getting the very best terpenoïd profiles ever.


Now I see what you mean with S. California, the Sta. Cruz region sure is a great place to grow.
Anything say south of Big Sur is worthless though, because like you said it gets way too dry.


Not Netherlands, but the Kop van Noord Holland, which really makes a huge difference.


Glad you asked. Yes, I have


Is that because our labour is so cheap or because we have so much space?
Holland is the second biggest agricultural net exporter in the world with a value of over 100 billion dollars.
That is 100 billion reasons to produce these flowers elsewhere if only they could.
But that is not possible unless you have the unique soil and microclimate.
Tulips originated from China and they are our biggest export market now.


Not at all; it's the temperature at night that is most important.
With the warm seawater you can be assured in March there will be no more frost.
To be clear again; this is only near the coast.


Yes, even today with all the autoflower crap purple haze is probably still the most popular.
Because it can handle toprot very well and finishes surprisingly fast at our lattitude.
It likes high humidity, which is why it wouldn't do very well in S. California.
Every spring we can get cuttings of it, even with our new growshop law.


These Dutch Purple Pars (never heard of) were probably also a purple haze (cross).
I agree back in the 80s it wasn't high quality (referring to purpeltjes), hardly worth growing.
But may be it was after all if only the weather had been better already.


That may take some adjusting.


We have the same weather now as the Bordeaux region back then. Especially along the coast with the warm seawater. Holland heats up much faster than other regions because of all the industrial waste going through our delta's. This is Holland now compared to 15 years ago (comparing 2000 to 1985 would be simular) :

View Image

The Kop van Noord Holland would be like Galicia (Spain) now, except much less rain and more sun. The rain literally blows over here or is somehow stopped by the dunes apparently. There is a unique micro climate behind the dunes of Schoorl where there is much more sun than only 10 miles further south.

Friends of mine have several coffeeshops for almost 40 years now and I always got to smoke what was too good to sell.
The best weed I ever smoked is Thai 82, N. California 89 and Kop van Noord Holland 2006.

About the comparation between Holland vs Galicia Im sure youre completly wrong. Galizia have Summers with max of 40°C in the shade, n so much warm winters than any place in Holland. In fact, Galizia has the hottest weather of all the North Spain.