Terpene Talk with Extract Consultants

[mobin]

Those MSDS documents are referencing inhalation ..... like the effects of being in a small unventilated room while cleaning a floor with a citrus cleaning agent and the effects of such a situation.

I can assure you these MSDS sheets are not referring to the act of heating a terpene to the point of vaporization and then inhaling it like a cigarette.

ya you're right....heating would add a whole new mess of possible danger.....as chains float off and things iso\polymerize.......

"inhaling" "smelling" "breathing in" .......are all the same thing as the material ends up in your lungs/throat/sinuses. If anything heating a small amount would be akin to concentrating the amount that would be floating around in an un-ventilated room, if not greater.


this is pretty common sense. inhaling this shit is irritating to your delicate lung tissue. i dont give two shits if joe smoker whoever is huffin terps all day....its an issue when these pieces of human garbage sell this shit to people who have less than average health.

 

[tech1234]

TB- what is the turpene or mix of that accounts for the classic "skunk" smell of cannabis I hear that Pinene plays a major role in this. Is this true?

 

[HUGE]

In for the ride

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I do not have a GC analysis of the terpenes in a RKS, I did not have a GC when I had the RKS Skunk #1, I have posted the 20 year old analysis of Skunk #1 terpenes that is in my sweeter Skunk #1.
-SamS

TB- what is the turpene or mix of that accounts for the classic "skunk" smell of cannabis I hear that Pinene plays a major role in this. Is this true?

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

What happened to TasteBudds, did he stop posting? Please answer post #27.
-SamS

 

[Gray Wolf]

If they chemically pure they should be the same.

Although, I suspect people will want for example their alpha-pinene from cannabis vs from turpentine.

The price of orange juice and lemon juice may skyrocket now as peel smokers get in on the action.

Therein lies the chagrin!

None of them are chemically pure, only relatively pure, and it is the minor fractionals that give the main terpene its individual character. IE Limonene from Oranges and Lemons at 99.9999% purity, are still not exactly the same.

Stewart noted in his essential oil book that there were over 150 different fractionals identified thus far in Orange oil, and they still hadn't identified them all.

 

[sadpanda]

wow so it's 2016 but we still don't know all the components in an orange!? well at least they're not Schedule I

 

[Gray Wolf]

wow so it's 2016 but we still don't know all the components in an orange!? well at least they're not Schedule I

Until someone figures out a way to get high on them................

 

[Galaxy420]

Until someone figures out a way to get high on them................

or healthy....

 

[Goldleaflabs]

Nobody know what the skunk smell is in cannabis. Ask all the testing labs and they'll say the same thing as what graywolf just said.
For the most part chemicals that smell like skunk (thiols) have sulfur in them and can be easily identified, but cannabis either does not have these or is in such small amounts they are typically undetected.
It is also possible that a normal smelling molecule can smell significantly different by changing the frequency on a quantum level. You can add deuterium onto a molecule change its frequency and totally shift its smell.
We have evolved extremely sensitive mechanisms to detect a skunk type smells, and this is probably due to it being involved in mammalian hormones, scent marking, or helping determine food rancidity.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Therein lies the chagrin!

None of them are chemically pure, only relatively pure, and it is the minor fractionals that give the main terpene its individual character. IE Limonene from Oranges and Lemons at 99.9999% purity, are still not exactly the same.

Stewart noted in his essential oil book that there were over 150 different fractionals identified thus far in Orange oil, and they still hadn't identified them all.

The Stewart book is interesting but I prefer Essential Oil Safety: A Guide for Health Care Professionals-, 2nd Edition
by Robert Tisserand, Rodney Young https://www.amazon.com/Essential-Oil-Safety-Health-Professionals/dp/0443062412/ref=dp_ob_title_bk

For a review of the Stewart book see: http://roberttisserand.com/2012/08/book-review-the-chemistry-of-essential-oils-made-simple/

I do love terpenes, that is for sure. And for me the more knowledge about them the better. I see posts constantly about the number of terpenes found in Cannabis, over 200, many claim. The literature has listed 140, I found a few more, so less then 150 have been ID'd so far in Cannabis. But that does not stop people from saying more then 200, I keep asking anyone that does so for a list of the 200+, no one has it, because it does not exist. Eventually I suspect we will find 200+ but it has not been done yet. I know of less then 150 found in Cannabis made by Cannabis directly.
-SamS

 

[Gray Wolf]

The Stewart book is interesting but I prefer Essential Oil Safety: A Guide for Health Care Professionals-, 2nd Edition
by Robert Tisserand, Rodney Young https://www.amazon.com/Essential-Oil-Safety-Health-Professionals/dp/0443062412/ref=dp_ob_title_bk

For a review of the Stewart book see: http://roberttisserand.com/2012/08/book-review-the-chemistry-of-essential-oils-made-simple/

I do love terpenes, that is for sure. And for me the more knowledge about them the better. I see posts constantly about the number of terpenes found in Cannabis, over 200, many claim. The literature has listed 140, I found a few more, so less then 150 have been ID'd so far in Cannabis. But that does not stop people from saying more then 200, I keep asking anyone that does so for a list of the 200+, no one has it, because it does not exist. Eventually I suspect we will find 200+ but it has not been done yet. I know of less then 150 found in Cannabis made by Cannabis directly.
-SamS

Thanks for the link brother Skunk! I ordered one.

How do you feel about Perfume and Flavor Materials of Natural Origin, by Arctander?

That brings us to the tongue in cheek question as to how cannabis happens to be so rife with such a panoply of different terpenes, shared with the rest of the plant kingdom.

Consider that when the mega fauna died off at the end of the last ice age, mankind developed agriculture to feed the masses.

He selectively bred and developed cereal grains like wheat and barley from grasses, and things like apples, cherries, and grapes from their wild ancestors, etc.

Early writings show that mankind was very much aware of the properties of the cannabis plant, even to worshiping it as a god in some cases, soooooooo I wonder exactly how much early selective breeding and more, was concurrently applied to the cannabis plant?????????????

 

[Gray Wolf]

On the subject of plant source essential oils and terpenes, I had an illuminating discussion with someone who grew up in the essential oil business, heading up the third family generation corporation in that business, and one of the largest in the US.

Some key points that I would like to share:

Depending on demand, some terpenes are harvested from wild sources by natives and some are farmed using state of the art equipment. How the natives collect and store the harvested terpenes is uncontrolled, as is what the collect and store it in.

The same monoterpenes that flavor food, also serve to strip paint and sanitize toilet bowls, as well as vary considerably in purity, soooo leave us not forget about the differences between food quality and industrial quality, as well as dosage.

Poison is always in the dosage. Even salubrious things like oxygen becomes toxic at around 75% concentration, so more is not necessarily better and it pays to consider the medicinal properties of the individual terpenes, before random experimentation with dosage.

 

[ChaosCatalunya]

I found out a couple of days ago that one of the common "Citrus" Terpenes has 30 different known types, I think it was Limonene or Citronella, forgive me, it was part of a long detailed conversation and i did not take notes so cannot be sure

 

[shortwave360]

I've used about 8 different terpene profiles from Extract Consultants. I mixed up a few batches of distillate carts adding about 4% by weight. I couldn't be happier with the results. It took me a bit to dial in the recipe but it wasn't difficult. Homogenize and let sit for a week or so and the flavors really start to pop. In the rec market many people buying the products aren't focused on cannabis only terpenes and just want something tasty.

I've come to ponder on what attracts people to certain terpenes and have started to wonder if nostalgia starts to play a role. The "fake" watermelon and passion fruit flavors EC sells are basically like a bubble yum flavor and make me think of childhood candy consumption.

I must add that the distillate I used still had cannabis aroma to it. It tested out at 83.xx% THC and event the snobs I vaped with didn't completely trash the formula.

 

[TasteBudds]

TB- what is the turpene or mix of that accounts for the classic "skunk" smell of cannabis I hear that Pinene plays a major role in this. Is this true?

Alpha pinene is present in varying amounts in many fruits, herbs, spices and really nearly every aromatic plant..so. That being said it is not the culprit for the "skunk" note found in the plant...

Hops are the nearest natural legal smell and even so this arrangement of molecules fails to deliver skunk...

The skunk note is also not present in many varieties of cannabis...and it should be noted that old weed loses the skunk overtime...

The skunk note is not easy to duplicate if it was we would have done it years ago, but there is no one aromatic molecule is responsible for what we all seek...

It is a synergy between many molecules both volition and non-volatile that is most likely responsible.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

TasteBudds? Please answer post #27.
-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Thanks for the link brother Skunk! I ordered one.

How do you feel about Perfume and Flavor Materials of Natural Origin, by Arctander?

I do not have it. Looks interesting.
-SamS

That brings us to the tongue in cheek question as to how cannabis happens to be so rife with such a panoply of different terpenes, shared with the rest of the plant kingdom.

Consider that when the mega fauna died off at the end of the last ice age, mankind developed agriculture to feed the masses.

He selectively bred and developed cereal grains like wheat and barley from grasses, and things like apples, cherries, and grapes from their wild ancestors, etc.

Early writings show that mankind was very much aware of the properties of the cannabis plant, even to worshiping it as a god in some cases, soooooooo I wonder exactly how much early selective breeding and more, was concurrently applied to the cannabis plant?????????????

Man has selected cannabis plants he liked for thousands of years. This was for many reasons including fiber, seeds, resins, to be used by man. When a farmer keeps seeds of what he likes best, and uses them the next year he does modify the genepool, be it for fibers, seed amounts or size, or the resin that has the Cannabinoids and terpenes. The same approximate amount of THC in a field of plants of a given variety a farmer will select seeds of any special plant that smells or tastes special, and if the terpenes selected potentiate or modify the type of high the farmer will be even more interested. It is obvious that Ganja farmers with only organoleptic analysis were able to select plants that were basically only THC, with little to none of the other non-psychoactive cannabinoids. Cannabis in traditional Ganja centers have high THC with almost no other cannabinoids, Thai, Colombian, are prime examples. By selecting individual plants seeds for thousands of years they ended up with THC only plants, while hashish farmers that did not smoke individual plants selected for resin content, be the resin THC, CBD or other cannabinoids. This is why traditional dry sifted hashish often has as much CBD as THC. Hashish farmers smoke resin from many plants and do not smoke individual plants so much tougher to select the best cannabinoid profile, yet still easy to select the plants with the most resin be it THC or CBD. Much the same happened with terpenes, farmers selected what they liked in taste, smell, effects, and today we have the results of their selections for the last few thousands of years.
-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Skunk smells info

Skunk smells info

x

 

[A6 Grower]

I suspect most people would prefer a 99.9% resin heads dry sift? If they were not so expensive to produce from dry cured buds that cost to much to use as a raw material, but this will change, and dry sift may well be the smokers choice in the long run.

Why make solvent extractions if you can have what you want in a form that is made by nature almost perfect, 99.9% resin heads in dry sift of the variety you love most can be over 80% THC and still be rich in terpenes that the plant put there naturally?

-SamS

Blah blah blah, beat the dead horse some more lol. This is a discussion about terps lets keep it at that, not what they are going in, Its 2016 i think we all know by know what we want to smoke. Have you ever taken you "99,99%" dry sift heads and dissolved them in ethanol at -60c for a day or two?? And 80% isnt that great, thats very easy to hit with a simple single solvent extraction. Distillates and terps are the future for smokers who want the best of the best. After filtration and polishing through a sub micron filter my solvent extraction is so much cleaner then your dry sift heads.