If they chemically pure they should be the same.
Although, I suspect people will want for example their alpha-pinene from cannabis vs from turpentine.
The price of orange juice and lemon juice may skyrocket now as peel smokers get in on the action.
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Terpene Talk with Extract Consultants
- Thread starter TasteBudds
- Start date
If they chemically pure they should be the same.
Although, I suspect people will want for example their alpha-pinene from cannabis vs from turpentine.
The price of orange juice and lemon juice may skyrocket now as peel smokers get in on the action.
TasteBudds
New member
We are isolated terpenes from other sources such as orange lemons pine etc. This raises a very good point and brings us to the discussion of the difference between a terpene and an essential oil, which is a common misconception in our industry right now:
NOBODY Is currently Isolated terpenes from cannabis that I have seen. There are some that are Isolating strain specific Cannabis ESSENTIAL OILS (terpenes, among other natural chemicals are included in this full spectrum essential oil,) but I have not seen anybody isolating Myrcene or Limonene straight from cannabis, for example.
The reason for this is that there is not enough raw material of Cannabis Essentail oil on the market place at this current time to justify using them for reactions. Currnetly, Cannabis Essentail oil, while very nice and tasty if harnessed properly from good bud runs, is very expensive due to limited supply. Inconsistent production practices also result in inconsistent material, so It is difficult to find the same kind of material repeatedly.
Currently It is hard to find a consistent, high qualtity, and cost effective cannabis essential oil at this current time in our exciting and young market space, but I forsee this changing in the future.
you certainly cannot find Cannabis derived ISOLATED TERPENES at the present time.
Hope this helps!
TB
TasteBudds
New member
Sure!
1. I'd say it depends on how much you are able to recover. If you are able to harness all of the volatile components (the essential oil) it can be re introduced back into the product or used to build other products. Usually, this will really depend on the quality of starting material. Bud runs are best, but the issue with this is that Bud is expensive, and it usually requires a large amount of starting material to achieve a small amount of essential oil.
Often times, people attempting to isolate the essential oil are unable to get all the components. You may have experience some distillate with a nasty smell to it...this is because some of the heavier (nasty smelling) molecules have remained in the distillate. Which creates a poor tasting concentrate, and a weak smelling isolated essential oil (because many of the important molecules are left behind.
2. Reasonable yields for most essential oils, including cannabis, is very small. A high yielding plant may produce 3% - 5% Essential oil, but often times 0.5% - 1.5% is to be expected. On rare cases, you can find higher yields, but typically it is expected that the essential oil contained in all plants is very minimal.
3. I would say yes, I believe adding terpenes to other products will change the overall experience. Certainly, we can control a standardized taste if terpenes or flavors are utilized. It is just important that we do this properly. Adding these kinds of materials can improve the overall quality of products primarily because a producer can give their client the same product time and time again. Consistency is a huge challenge in our industry, and incorporating controlled tastes (and likely even controlled effects) seems like a positive direction.
Digital Man
Member
Good stuff Max. Have spoken to you on the phone in the past and you've always been a great resource. Love discussions on Terps as there's a ton of misinformation out there on the market along with some very shady snake-oil salesman. Discussions like this help everyone become more enlightened to the benefits and dangers of terpenes............ hopefully saving someone from melting their lungs in the process.
how is terps from vaporizing smelly cannabis affecting melty lungs? that is why I pick up a vape, terpsGood stuff Max. Have spoken to you on the phone in the past and you've always been a great resource. Love discussions on Terps as there's a ton of misinformation out there on the market along with some very shady snake-oil salesman. Discussions like this help everyone become more enlightened to the benefits and dangers of terpenes............ hopefully saving someone from melting their lungs in the process.
Bubbleblower
Member
It usually does, but it could also ruin the concentrate.
The higher the quality of the concentrate the more likely that is to occur.
It is super complicated, that's why I have a million impossible questions for OP.
Which terpenes work with and which ones work against each other?
Which terpenes/oils can we use a lot of in a mix and which ones just a little?
Which oils are the most stable and what do they have in common, if anything?
Why does the same terpene degrade a few times faster in one composition than in another?
Do you have experience in metabolic engineering?
Hello TasteBudds,
A few questions for you.
What was the first year you added terpenes to Cannabis products or THC?
Not a question, people are isolating single terpenes from Cannabis but they do not sell them because of the raw material costs.
Do you feel in the long run that people will just add terpenes to THC or whatever and the consumers will be happy with that?
Cannabis has some 150 terpenes found in it you offer 21? Are the rest unimportant?
I suspect most people would prefer a 99.9% resin heads dry sift? If they were not so expensive to produce from dry cured buds that cost to much to use as a raw material, but this will change, and dry sift may well be the smokers choice in the long run.
Is breeding for terpene content and profile the future? Few Cannabis breeders today understand the inheritance of the terpenes but that will change, it is changing today. I predict that future Cannabis breeders will breed for terpenes they want and eliminate terpenes they do not want, as some are undesirable by Cannabis smokers. If you test the herbal bud contests winners for terpenes you see a high correlation between very high terpene contents and the winners of the contests like the Emerald Cup.
Why make solvent extractions if you can have what you want in a form that is made by nature almost perfect, 99.9% resin heads in dry sift of the variety you love most can be over 80% THC and still be rich in terpenes that the plant put there naturally?
-SamS
A few questions for you.
What was the first year you added terpenes to Cannabis products or THC?
Not a question, people are isolating single terpenes from Cannabis but they do not sell them because of the raw material costs.
Do you feel in the long run that people will just add terpenes to THC or whatever and the consumers will be happy with that?
Cannabis has some 150 terpenes found in it you offer 21? Are the rest unimportant?
I suspect most people would prefer a 99.9% resin heads dry sift? If they were not so expensive to produce from dry cured buds that cost to much to use as a raw material, but this will change, and dry sift may well be the smokers choice in the long run.
Is breeding for terpene content and profile the future? Few Cannabis breeders today understand the inheritance of the terpenes but that will change, it is changing today. I predict that future Cannabis breeders will breed for terpenes they want and eliminate terpenes they do not want, as some are undesirable by Cannabis smokers. If you test the herbal bud contests winners for terpenes you see a high correlation between very high terpene contents and the winners of the contests like the Emerald Cup.
Why make solvent extractions if you can have what you want in a form that is made by nature almost perfect, 99.9% resin heads in dry sift of the variety you love most can be over 80% THC and still be rich in terpenes that the plant put there naturally?
-SamS
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I wear a half face mask with organic vapour cartridge. I get the odd wiff but you are technically supposed to be clean shaven.
I highly recommend it, especially with fine mists and uncontrolled airflow.
Apologies for the off topic, it is a very interesting thread. It's only page two and Sam has already crawled up someone's ass.
If you've consumed bottled orange juice, you've had terpene enhanced products and lived to tell the tale. There is a CBC show on the practice, really highlighted the Chicken Little syndrome that infects so many. When did it become fashionable to fear the unknown rather than understand it? Bloody retrogrades.
_tessarecting
ஓ
I gotts get me some organic vapor cartridges. Instead of shaving I'll just wear it tighter.
Sadly, you can count on it. They'll all forget about sniffing glue.
Somebody will die and then all Terps will be controlled substances.
Sounds stupid, but I can see somebody calling an ambulance before long.
Digital Man
Member
I think anyone who spends 10 minutes researching terpenes gets it that they are everywhere in people's, plant's and insect's life. That isn't what the concern might be as it pertains to this industry. In the course of less then a year we've gone from knowledgeable companies like Extract Consultants suggesting add back rates of 1-4%, to people like Drew at CC and others pitching terpenes and suggesting 30-50% add backs and now reports of people vaporizing straight terpenes. Like so many trends/fads in this industry (likely thanks to High Times and Emerald Cups) some guy takes a concentrate, adds 10% terpenes into it ...... wins an award and the next thing you know ...... here we are.
If you are waiting to see conclusive research showing that vaporizing D-Limonene Citrus Cleaner is bad for you before you you'll believe it to be ............be my guest. I'd rather fear that "unknown" personally.
mobin
Member
Unknown? All these terpene compounds have msds available regarding their industrial uses. Inhalation hazzard is listed and severe irritation is the symptom. I dont think they're dangerous in the sense that say that itll kill you....i think its stupid to inhale things that are irritants...like huffing capscasin instead of eating it.
Digital Man
Member
Those MSDS documents are referencing inhalation ..... like the effects of being in a small unventilated room while cleaning a floor with a citrus cleaning agent and the effects of such a situation.
I can assure you these MSDS sheets are not referring to the act of heating a terpene to the point of vaporization and then inhaling it like a cigarette.
Digital Man
Member
It's not the levels of terpenes naturally occurring in the plant that are the issue ....... but the extremes people are taking them. That is the issue.
Thanks for the reply
I found the concept of standardized THC/terpenes mixture a bit scary, as i see shadows of copyrights rise up. At the same time its reasonable in the medical field where repetibility is a great challenge as you noted.
Sam when you made the Thc + terpenes tests reported in Ethan Russo's publication did you use general plant derided or cannabis derived terpenes?
If people dont start isolating and selling terpenes essential oils how could experimentation be carried over?
Making single terpenes varieties or desired terpenes variety is another huge challenge and i hope it will be the future too, but if a good healthy method of extract and isolate single terpenes is used it could be a real boost in understanding plant based terpenes interactions.
I found the concept of standardized THC/terpenes mixture a bit scary, as i see shadows of copyrights rise up. At the same time its reasonable in the medical field where repetibility is a great challenge as you noted.
Sam when you made the Thc + terpenes tests reported in Ethan Russo's publication did you use general plant derided or cannabis derived terpenes?
If people dont start isolating and selling terpenes essential oils how could experimentation be carried over?
Making single terpenes varieties or desired terpenes variety is another huge challenge and i hope it will be the future too, but if a good healthy method of extract and isolate single terpenes is used it could be a real boost in understanding plant based terpenes interactions.
You read too far into my post, that is a specific comment in reply to a general one.
I am talking of the general attitude to shy away from what one doesn't understand, rather than learn about it and come to an informed opinion.
I don't recall mentioning excessive terpene enhancement of extracts at all.
Cheers
Digital Man
Member
My mistake ............
MountZionCollec
Active member
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