Team Microbe's Living Soil Laboratory - Round 2!

[Team Microbe]

I'm wondering for the same reasons. I hadn't considered alternating though...I think I'll try that out.



This is a piece of organic matter at 800x from a 1ml sample from an actively aerating brewer. On this and seeing them bugs in action, I believe those dots attached to it(and the peppering of dots through the rest of the field) to be fungus. I saw a few bacteria(and you can make one out in this image as well) but those were rare in this sample. In scanning the entire slide, I found a whopping total of 4 diatoms, probably picked up from the blackwater aquarium water I used as the base (I don't dose my tank with anything but peat, red alder cones and Indian almond leaves).

Water out of my tap is gH 30 ppm and pH 8.2 prior to chloramine treatment with a trace dosing of potassium metabisulfate. When I pitch my ingredients, the pH of the water from the tank is 7 and gH is 10-12 ppm. At the end of the session, my pH is around 6.4

Cheers! I'm going to make my own thread soon, as soon as I can parse down my weird notes into a methodology development kind of design document.

Very cool, I know I'll get into microscopes one day eventually... I almost invested in one 2 months ago but decided to build bigger pots instead because I'm not quite at that level yet. I was gonna order MM's cd on identifying organisms under the scope - it looks like a lot of fun being able to see that other world that's invisible to the human eye. I can imagine how nice it must be to simply pop a drop of tea under the scope to see if it's time to harvest or not.

If you make a thread I'll be one of the first to pull up a chair, I can tell ya that...

I have been lurking for some time, but I just wanted to say that I have learned so much from your posts TM. Thank you for sharing your knowledge, but also providing links to other posts/websites etc. and providing a place for other knowledgable people to chime in.

I have been stuck in my rut for some time, but I hope to slowly move out of it and into a program like this. I am curious about how your system changes for different flowering lengths? Say a strain that gets out into that 12-14 week and beyond category? Also, this is the child in me asking, but how do your yield efficiencies(g/watt) compare to previous methods?

Thanks dude, glad you joined the site, welcome

No problem, I learn a lot myself by just explaining how I do things and why... so it's def a win win. I love learning about growing, it feels like an addiction - I'm literally up at night reading until I nod off into my screen practically lol

No till can support any cultivar no matter it's flowering length - I had some girls going until day 84 last run with no problems or shortages in food. There's something called a cation (cat-eye-on) exchange capacity, and organic matter has a high % of it. What this means is that it has the ability to hold onto nutrients more efficiently and longer, and prevent the typical leeching seen in soilless mixes that are low in CEC. So when we have an organic soil mix that's typically equal parts peat, aeration, and compost... that mix is going to hold onto nutrients and store them for you just as nature does in wild forests.

In the forest a tree falls, begins to decompose by the means of fungi and bacteria, then becomes food for the next generation of plants that grow in that open patch of canopy. No tilling, yet nutrients are never depleted and nobody ever has to run out there and fertilize... yet health is very high among those plants. We're putting the same principals into practice here, once harvest comes we chop the plant, drop leaves and stems and stalks onto the top of the soil, and let it do it's thing just as you would see outside. You'll never have to worry about lengthy flowering varieties again!

As far as yield goes - I've never had heavier weight come out of that room before in my 8 years of growing with ebb and flow tables, coco coir, tga super soil, or soilless mixes. Last run I ran all testers and still reached 979g under 1200 watts. Some were like 2' tall, while others were 5' so a lot of fluctuation but the keepers I kept all packed on weight very well compared to previous methods. I'll easily reach that 1 gpw with keeper phenos this run, maybe even 2 gpw if I have a good run:


Silver Lotus #1


Silver Lotus #2


You can see some of the scragglers to the left there... it seems like the strains that were bred by organic breeders performed a lot better than the TG Genetic strains I ran. I wasn't too happy with TG's gear, a lot of it was sub-par unfortunately but I found a keeper Sicilian Revenge so it was worth it I think.

I think you should dive into no-till, take that shit to the next level!

 

[kangrowru]

Simply amazing, while it doesn't surprise me that your getting great yields (undoubtedly higher quality as well) I just had to ask. Also very interesting about using strains from organic breeders, it makes sense and I will key in on that while I start choosing strains for my experiment.

Thats exciting about long flowering times, I kind of assumed that was the answer, but as they say curiosity kills.

Also, I had forgot to ask, organic coco vs. peat? I know the water retention is higher with peat, but what I am I missing? I haven't really seen many people, in this type of system, use coco over peat. Higher biodiversity of microbes?

I haven't found a good source of peat locally...yet.. hahaha

Cheers

 

[Greenlife1]

Great stuff TM!
I am following suit...somewhat. I am running a couple different varietis in 10 gallons.
Bought the 1 cuBic yard kit from build a soil and added it to 3_ 3.0 cuft sunshine #4 an 180 pounds of ewc.
just using some winter red wheat as myou cover crop.
When you spout your seeds for your enzyme tea do you filter it out before you give it to your plants.
I mix up 50 gallons of water eveytime. So I sprouted 1 lb of the winter red wheat an blender the cap out of it, but there was still a ton of pieces.
Thanks for this great thread. Trying to get my buddies to make the switch.

 

[CimeTempestose]

I'm tuned man ! gratz for this nice 3d

 

[GHGrower]

Also very interesting about using strains from organic breeders, it makes sense and I will key in on that while I start choosing strains for my experiment.

It is extremely hard to find strong seed stock (even of organic and heirloom variety vegetables) simply due to the nature of seed production. These methods being described here aren't being used by a majority, and the seeds these plants produce will likewise to the method, also be subpar. A plant that isn't at peak health will not produce healthy seeds. An unhealthy seed produces, by extension, an unhealthy plant. It can take up to two full generations of healthy plant tending to produce 100% healthy seed, and the little flaws along the way can have lasting repercussions. (Kittridge, 2011)

 

[Kygiacomo!!!]

hey guys if i got a living soil will it be ok to make a tea or alfalfa,kelp and ECW like 2 times a month in veg or would that be overkill?

 

[Lester Moore]

?

?

It is extremely hard to find strong seed stock (even of organic and heirloom variety vegetables) simply due to the nature of seed production. These methods being described here aren't being used by a majority, and the seeds these plants produce will likewise to the method, also be subpar. A plant that isn't at peak health will not produce healthy seeds. An unhealthy seed produces, by extension, an unhealthy plant. It can take up to two full generations of healthy plant tending to produce 100% healthy seed, and the little flaws along the way can have lasting repercussions. (Kittridge, 2011)

why can't it just take one generation of healthy plant growth to produce 100% healthy seeds? why 2?

 

[ghostmade]

hey guys if i got a living soil will it be ok to make a tea or alfalfa,kelp and ECW like 2 times a month in veg or would that be overkill?

No.its not.as long as you throw some sugar in there,and keep it a "weak tea".should be nice lil trwat for your microbes

 

[Former Guest]

They say that the molasses makes the microbes lazy processing the nutrients in the soil. So that is why MM has you add only a little bit just enough to finish the brew. When they run out of food like the fish, alfalfa or molasses, it goes bad and stinks. When it smells like earthy compost smell with no super fishy fert smell and sweet molasses, the brew is complete.

 

[ghostmade]

^^^yes mam thats what i practice.i littls goes a long ways.with sugars in tea (and in life lol)

 

[Team Microbe]

Simply amazing, while it doesn't surprise me that your getting great yields (undoubtedly higher quality as well) I just had to ask. Also very interesting about using strains from organic breeders, it makes sense and I will key in on that while I start choosing strains for my experiment.

Thats exciting about long flowering times, I kind of assumed that was the answer, but as they say curiosity kills.

Also, I had forgot to ask, organic coco vs. peat? I know the water retention is higher with peat, but what I am I missing? I haven't really seen many people, in this type of system, use coco over peat. Higher biodiversity of microbes?

I haven't found a good source of peat locally...yet.. hahaha

Cheers

Yeah there's a theory that states past generations influence future generations through DNA - for example an organic breeder would see more successful grows come out of organic testers than those running ebb and flow tables due to "epigenetics". I believe in it, others do not however. Just one of those things...

Peat holds nutrients longer and more efficiently than coco does, that's why it's chosen over coco in soil mixes most of the time. It provides micro-diversity as well (depending on where it was harvested) so that's another +1 against coco coir. It's also cheap as hell, I get mine for like $9 a 3.8 cubic foot bale at my local hardware stores - Home Depot and Lowes. IMO you can't beat it...

Great stuff TM!
I am following suit...somewhat. I am running a couple different varietis in 10 gallons.
Bought the 1 cuBic yard kit from build a soil and added it to 3_ 3.0 cuft sunshine #4 an 180 pounds of ewc.
just using some winter red wheat as myou cover crop.
When you spout your seeds for your enzyme tea do you filter it out before you give it to your plants.
I mix up 50 gallons of water eveytime. So I sprouted 1 lb of the winter red wheat an blender the cap out of it, but there was still a ton of pieces.
Thanks for this great thread. Trying to get my buddies to make the switch.

Straining isn't necessary for the SST, just blend well and mix it into your water as is. Those pieces do no harm, trust me!

Np, thanks for pullin up a seat dude

I'm tuned man ! gratz for this nice 3d

Welcome bretheren

 

[Kygiacomo!!!]

No.its not.as long as you throw some sugar in there,and keep it a "weak tea".should be nice lil trwat for your microbes

cool thanks bro im new to all this shit so dont want to fuck it up!! i will just top dress with EWC when i see them start to flower and let the living soil do all the rest..only thing im putting into that hole is water and nothing more all season

 

[Former Guest]

If you brew a tea at home and take it with you I'd wonder if it would go bad by the time you got there. You can make a slurry with your stuff and then pour it over the area. It has the consistency of pancake batter. Works well and it's fresh.

 

[Team Microbe]

How long does it take to step onto your patch Kygiacomo? It's doesn't take more than an hr or so does it? I think brewing tea would work as long as you don't store it for 4+ hours before using

 

[Greenlife1]

I know You said above that there is plenty of stuff in the soil to feed the whole cycle...
which seems to be the case with all of mine except one. She seems to be lighting up some. I just noticed it this morning. Why would this be? I can take a pic an show you the comparision...
should I just make a ewc slurry next time I need to water (Tuesday ).

Thanks

 

[Team Microbe]

I know You said above that there is plenty of stuff in the soil to feed the whole cycle...
which seems to be the case with all of mine except one. She seems to be lighting up some. I just noticed it this morning. Why would this be? I can take a pic an show you the comparision...
should I just make a ewc slurry next time I need to water (Tuesday ).

Thanks

Take a pic so we can see

 

[Team Microbe]

Blueberry Headband was tied down last week to expose some lowers

She's bouncin back up towards the light now

Lipids are beginning to be stored (you can tell by the shine of the waxy leaf surface) which is a good sign of plant health

I think I like these mulch shots more than my plant shots... the diversity is like eye candy to me after growing monocultures for so many years

The broadleaves are taking over! You can see a Cheese Candy cutting in the background that was just transplanted this week

 

[Team Microbe]

Today was SST, Ful Power and Agsil16H day. It takes about 4 days to sprout seeds so I try to plan accordingly

I'm not sure if I've listed my watering regimen yet so I'll do it anyways:


Watering Regimen:

1st Watering
-Pureed Sprouts (I use barley seed)
-10 ml FulPower
-5 ml Agsil16H (potassium silicate)

2nd & 4th Waterings
-Water only

3rd Watering
-1/4 cup coconut water
-1/4 tsp Aloe Vera powder
-5 ml Agsil16H

*Biweekly I add 1/2 tsp per gal of TM-7 (humic acids)

*I'll brew a compost tea every 4 weeks or if I forget to water and pots dry out too much.





Speaking of compost tea...

This Silver Lotus isn't greening up as fast as the rest of the ladies are, and I think it's because I transplanted from a 2 gallon (low NPK seedling soil) to the 10 gallon pots in which I eventually turned into no-tills after successfully harvesting from. So I'm going to brew up a simple AACT with alfalfa meal in it to get her through to the richer soil below. After I build the 25 gallon no-tills next week, I'll take the 2 gallons out of the grow room and simply cut a clone from a mother plant and plant it directly into it's final 25 gal pot. Veg and flower can be completed in the same pot, there's no reason to fill 2 gallons pots anymore as long as I'm running this kind of bionic system. My veg tent has been transformed into a mothering room, which is nice because it lets me hoard all the strains I secretly want to keep lol

This is Microbe Man's fungal recipe I found over at www.microbeorganics.com



"A recipe for a balanced nutrient cycling ACT which many growers claim to have great success with is:

[vermi]compost – 2.38%

unsulphured pure black strap molasses - 0.50% [but you can use a maximum 0.75%]

fish hydrolysate (high quality) - 0.063%
Do not use chemically deodorized liquid fish!

kelp meal - 0.25% max. [Less is more!]
NOTE: This is a maximum amount of kelp and you can experiment using less. This is using regular grade kelp meal for livestock. If you have soluble kelp, I recommend using smaller amounts. As noted earlier kelp meal can initially delay bacterial multiplication and fungal growth in ACT.

soft rock phosphate granules/powder - 0.063% Consider this optional. In the past 2 years I’ve become more aware of the possibility of polonium 210 and lead content in soft rock phosphate which is radioactive. This varies depending on how it was mined and where. If you wish to use this in ACT check all available data. Look for heavy metal testing. We grind up the granules into a powder with a coffee grinder

The brew time should average around 36 hours and no longer than 48 hours. If you have a microscope then stop when the microbes desired are observed. Otherwise smell for the foodstocks being used up, possible rank odor (indicating anaerobes) and a positive earthy or mushroom-like aroma.

Fungal Brew -
If you want a brew which is more fungal increase the amount of fish hydrolysate to around 0.19% and you may wish to decrease the amount of molasses used so there is not a foodstock overload. Include a pinch of alfalfa meal, not using more than 0.25%. It is important to not overload a brew with foodstocks, otherwise you can easily compromise the dissolved oxygen capacity of the unit. Most importantly discontinue brewing around 18 to 20 hours. Of course if you have a microscope you can judge that for yourself.
Also, if you do not have fungi in your [vermi]compost, you won’t have it magically appear in your ACT."



Pre-Charging compost is helpful when brewing a fungal tea, since fungi don't multiply and only grow in size. This simply consists of adding a fungal food to the 2 cups of compost to grow that hyphae that will be the difference between bacterial dom and fungal dom. I like to use grokashi since I've got it on hand, but if you don't wanna over pay for fungal food then you can use wheat bran or powdered baby oatmeal instead. Apply 1 part fungal food to 3 parts compost, moisten, wrap the top with something that can breathe (cheese cloth, paper towel, etc) and let sit in a container for 10-14 days until you see what looks like "santa's beard" appear on the top. This is the hyphae we're looking for, so add the entire substrate to the brewer, beard and all. Brew for 18-20 hours, the brew should smell sweet when it's ready to harvest. If anything smells off or rubs you the right way, it's probable that the brew went anaerobic and it should not be used. The nose always knows, so trust it!

 

[Former Guest]

Where do you find these memes?

Are you just overwatering the clone trying to keep the mulch watered too? That's a big leap in pot sizes? Other stuff is green? Shouldn't you have nitrogen from chop and drop of your mulches and reamending? I got questions!

 

[Polygon]

After watering with a strong fungal dom-tea I got an explosion of rhizomporphic mycelium from my soil that consumed the straw and hay on my beds. Super metal to say the least.

One thing that I found interesting about fungal-dom teas is that as a mushroom grower who uses mediums like rye for germination or inoculation with certain species, you can speed the process of mycelium growing by breaking the clumps in the container you're colonizing and while technically breaking the mycelial network, it creates more inoculation points for new networks to colonize and then race towards full colonization. Using a fungal dom tea is like a big liquid culture innoculation - The thought never occured to me to take that concept and introduce it in an airated tea ala fancy soil-lovin, mycelium multiplyin', sugar fest (AACT) and add it to my soil to balance out the straight bacterial ones.

Excellent info on the pre-charging, starting that tonight to water into the big-girl no-tills at some point