Tea Article

[catcherintheye]

BMRE= biological microbe replication extraction MCSE= Micro-bacterial compost synthesis extractions.

I like the second. LOL pals.

So i watered with the humus tea diluted 1:2 My lady was quite thirsty, Im an idiot for letting her get so dry, Gave her a little under a galon of the solution and she went droopy like balls on a hot day ( sorry i couldnt think of a better analogy lol) today when i woke up, it looked like she popped a few viagra! I dunno if they work on ladies, but hot damn! Im about to give her some more of the brew its been 48 hours now, since Im a noob and dunno whats going on biologically without a scope, I figured watering half what she takes with both 24 and 48 hour breww would give a better mix of bennies. I added more kelp after 24 hours and it doesnt smell like kelp.

Ct I am brewing everything in a one gall amount.I used a 5 gal bucket this time, with just a little mor than a gallon. The brewww is darkkkk, scaresss me. NO FROTH. Whatevers living in it sure did make a difference though. In total i added. One cup humus, half cup ewc, one oz or so kelp, a few drip molasses and an ml or so humic acid at the beggining of brewing. after twentyfour hours i added a little bit more kelp, and its been 48 hours now, no kelp smell, gona give her a second go round. PEACE and blessings thanks everyone.

MICROBE, start a school for organics and consider me enrolled,thanks for everything ct. There any schools in cali teaching, growing with organics, permaculture and sustainability? Im talking about a school that does just this, Not a bullshit university or community college. thanks again, respect to all you organic OG heads out there. One day ill be you, and all because of you! respect.

EDIT:drenchedd and foliar fed.diluted the foliar till it was very light colored tea, the root drench dark and mucky as ever. Lets see what she has to say tomorrow, I feel dumb for waterinng 1 and a half hours before lights out, but i didnt want to add anything else to the brew and didnt want the biology to change anymore that what its at now, not that i could physically tell. I really feel like im just haphazardly making tea, all i can go by is if the plant is happy, that she is, im sure one of my brews is better than the other, but i wouldnt know, im sure some have been anaerobic and pretty devoid of life even though none have smelled spoiled, all are aerated and for less than 3 days.

Whatever, either way im still more comfortable with what im doing and would rather do this over playing mad scientist with bottled sythetic salts, by now, my plant would positively be pissed off if not dead, if i took that route. Ill post a picture of her in the coming days. thanks again guys.

 

[Microbeman]

by Spurr
Predation (microbial loop) is not the same as nutrient mineralization per say; the latter is (basically) when microflora solublize ions from organic matter.

I have wrestled with this terminology having read a number of studies/reviews which refer to the nutrient release derived from bacterial predation as 'mineralization.'

E.G. Microfaunal stimulation of nitrogen mineralization
via the microbial loop was suggested as the main underlying
mechanism (Clarholm, 1985; Griffiths, 1994; Zwartet al.,1994).

 

[heady blunts]

Ct I am brewing everything in a one gall amount.I used a 5 gal bucket this time, with just a little mor than a gallon. The brewww is darkkkk, scaresss me. NO FROTH. Whatevers living in it sure did make a difference though. In total i added. One cup humus, half cup ewc, one oz or so kelp, a few drip molasses and an ml or so humic acid at the beggining of brewing. after twentyfour hours i added a little bit more kelp, and its been 48 hours now, no kelp smell, gona give her a second go round. PEACE and blessings thanks everyone.

it sounds like your recipe is still a bit off. unless the humus replaces it, you'll def need more molasses to feed the masses.

if you're doing a 1 gal brew, you want:

1 gal water

1/2 cup EWC (MAXIMUM!)

1.5 TABLEspoons molasses

1/2 TEAspoon fish hydrolysate (MAXIMUM!)

1/2 TABLEspoon kelpmeal

1 gallon = 16 cups = 256 tablespoons

2.38% by volume compost or vermicompost (EWC) per gallon = .38 cups or around half a cup max or about 2 cups in 5 gallons max.

0.5 to 0.75% molasses by volume per gallon = 1.28 to 1.92 tablespoons per gallon. 0.75% is the maximum I use. It is a good bacterial and fungal food.

0.063% fish hydrolysate by volume per gallon = 0.16 tablespoon = 0.479 teaspoons or half a teaspoon

0.25% (max) kelpmeal by volume per gallon = 0.64 tablespoon or half a tablespoon

i'll quote this MM post a thousand times. it is so helpful.

I read through the entirety of the compost tea sticky and one thing that is repeated many times is that adding more stuff does not make better tea.

I feel you on the watering. I killed half my plants when i started out because i under-watered them to death. it was very sad. mulching saved me (indoor containers can use mulch too). then i finally upgraded to a tropf blumat system. man they are such a time saver, and the plants are much happier watering themselves than they were when they had to wait for me to water them.

 

[Mezz Mezzrow]

Over halfway through the thread now. One question in mind is what is a good cloth to use to contain ewc? I read that nylon is not porous enough. How about an old cotton t-shirt?

 

[Microbeman]

Over halfway through the thread now. One question in mind is what is a good cloth to use to contain ewc? I read that nylon is not porous enough. How about an old cotton t-shirt?

From page one

2. According to Dr. Ingham, nylon stockings don't allow for all the fungi and protozoa to escape into the brewer, or may become trapped in the stocking if used for filtering. If it is possible to avoid filtering, you're less likely to damage or be removing any organisms, though sometimes clogging can be a problem. We've discovered through testing, the optimum size for filtering compost tea is 400 microns. This will trap a majority of the particulate, while still allowing the microbes to escape.

Do you think an old cotton t-shirt is 400 microns mesh? There are a variety of places to find mesh bags on the internet. Many good ones are made of nylon. You can use a paint strainer which is not exactly 400 microns but it works.

 

[Mezz Mezzrow]

From page one



Do you think an old cotton t-shirt is 400 microns mesh? There are a variety of places to find mesh bags on the internet. Many good ones are made of nylon. You can use a paint strainer which is not exactly 400 microns but it works.

I just neglected to note the 400 micron size. Thanks for the info. No thanks for the terseness. A better question would have been what common material works well? I'd rather use something recycled than have to order it.

 

[Microbeman]

Yes I admit to being terse. I guess it comes from answering the same questions after people fail to read what is written. I should also point out that it is not nylon as you have stated but 'nylon stockings' which are not porous enough...just to prevent people from being confused. As for recycling, not much comes to mind that would be accurate but you could try window screening (800 to 1000 microns) or whathaveyou that looks similar. Paint strainers are very cheap at Home Depot, etc. You can find mesh to microns conversion tables on the web which might be helpful.

 

[Mezz Mezzrow]

Yes I admit to being terse. I guess it comes from answering the same questions after people fail to read what is written. I should also point out that it is not nylon as you have stated but 'nylon stockings' which are not porous enough...just to prevent people from being confused. As for recycling, not much comes to mind that would be accurate but you could try window screening (800 to 1000 microns) or whathaveyou that looks similar. Paint strainers are very cheap at Home Depot, etc. You can find mesh to microns conversion tables on the web which might be helpful.

I totally understand about how annoying that must be. Try to understand it is a huge thread and after 27 pages my head was swimming. Thanks again for all this info. I'll try not to be too much of a noob. I'm so geeked about what my worms are producing it is hard to contain my enthusiasm.

 

[spurr]

No. To increase predation of protozoa (microfauna) and nematodes (mostly mesofauna) upon bacteria/archaea and even some fungi (all of which are microflora), you want the media to dry out a bit, not a lot, but a bit. Allowing media to dry out a bit also helps the roots in terms of respiration of Co2 from roots, and increasing O2 in media . Specifically you want the moisture content (by "wet weight gravimetric basis") to drop down to 40-45%, then when you water you want it to clime to 60-65%.

FWIW, using your finger to measure when to water does not work. The reason being we can feel moisture even when it's below 40%. Thus if we use our finger, often times people let media get too dry. At least using a media moister meter is a good idea, even though they are pretty inaccurate. If using a moisture meter buy the best one you can afford, specmeters sells decent (and affordable) analog moisture meters (link).

The reason letting media dry out a bit increases predation (i.e., microbial loop) and thus increases freed ions such as N, is the predators (micro and meso fauna) are better able to 'catch' the prey (microflora) when the soil water is in smaller 'pockets'. N levels increase when you water the media after the media dries out a bit.

Was planning on using the Blumat waterers. Do you think I still need a moisture meter? Which one on that page would you recommend?

If you use a Blumat, no, you wouldn't need a moister meter because the Blumat has a moisture sensor (the clay cone). That said, I am kind of anti-Blumat for a few reasons: (1) the sensor cone is only a couple of inches long, so it measures moister at the top of media, where the moisture content is generally lowest; that means it could be watering before your media needs to be watered. If using a Blumat than I think mulching is a must to better equalize the moister between the top and middle of the media. (2) the Blumat uses drip irrigation, and drip does not equally moisten the full volume of media as does drench (ex., with a hose end sprayer or watering can). If the media does not sufficiently move moisture horizontally and vertically there will be dryer spots in the media. (3) the Blumat does not list at what moisture percent it 'turns on' (link), e.g,. it could turn on at 30% or 50% moisture content, we don't know because it's not listed. So I called up Rambridge and asked them, and they don't know either. Apparently I am the first person to ever ask that question (which means everyone who uses Blumats doesn't know about, or consider the issue of moisture content). A rep from Rambridge I spoke with is calling the Blumat makers today to ask them at what moisture content (or range) the clay cone turns on the water; I should have an answer by tomorrow.

All the said, I prefer using top-down drench watering method with a hose watering wand, employing "pulse" watering application. That allows for the most thorough and complete watering while not over saturating the media (by virtue of pulse watering). The pulse watering method is when you water the media for a little bit, then let the water get absorbed, then water the media a little more and let the water get absorbed, then water the media a little more, and so on; until the media is fully watered, but not over watered (i.e., saturated). It's easy to use pulse watering if you have a few containers of media, I just start at the first container and water a little, then go to the next container and water a littler, then to the next, and so on. By the time I am back to the first container it is ready for more water...

I have been researching an auto-watering method using water tension of media with advanced tensiometers or volumetric water sensors (aka capacitance sensors) that can be equated to water tension. I have a few great papers on the subject for soilless media I posted below. It's not too expensive to setup auto-watering that uses the best practices of soil science. The trick however, is not to use a single drip emitter line, but to use a drip emitter 'ring' with many points of water droplets. That way, the media is more evenly watered and will have fewer dry pockets verses using a single drip emitter like the Blumat.

In terms of moisture meters from specmeters, the most economical and most accurate would be a tensiometer, which measures water tension, not moisture content. If you are using media that is based on peat, coco, bark, etc., e.g., not soil, the "LT" model is the way to go, it's the "Irrometer" brand and it's about $100 (link). Other options for moisture meters are the WaterScout volumetric moisture sensor (link) and a data reader like the FieldScout (link); but they cost about $350 combined.

Using the volumetric moisture sensor and data reader will give you a percent of moisture content (by volume), but it's not very inexpensive.

Using a tensiometer gives the best reading in terms of plant available water, i.e., not all water in media is 'usable' by roots, and some water this is 'usable' is harder for roots to use than other water, re the tension of the water. For soilless media like we use (non-soil), that is looser and less dense than soil, watering when water tension reaches ~5-8 kPa is a good goal. Each media has different kPa for when to water, dependent upon pore sizes in media; smaller pores hold water at higher tensions thus they hold water roots have to 'work' harder to use. And as media dries out there are more smaller pores holding water, thus water tension increases as media dries out. I have attached an image to this post, along with a few PDFs, about water tension using tensiomters and volumetric moisture sensors.


So in the end: I would suggest against using Blumat if you don't need to have inexpensive auto-watering, and if you do need auto-watering I would suggest using a ring with the Bluemat, not a single emitter. Using a tensiometer or volumetric water sensor is better for automation than a Blumat becuase you can adjust when the water will 'turn on', but both solutions are considerably more expensive than Blumat.

Out of all the water moisture meters at specmeter, I would suggest the use of Irrometer tensiometer LT. That way you know when to water by the most accurate method: water tension. And water tension is also relevant for microbes, i.e., predation is highest when water tension is higher, which means there are smaller 'pockets' of water, at higher tensions. So if you water when the water tension is ~5-8 kPa, at most ~10 kPa, you will be providing near-ideal environment for both roots and microbial loop.

Here are good resources, I have many papers about using tensiometers, and you can find a lot of info by googleing at edu sites:

(tensiometer info)

1. "Using tensiometers to make irrigation decisions in greenhouse production"
Heiner Lieth
Environmental Horticulture University of California
http://lieth.ucdavis.edu/Research/tens/98/SmtPub.htm


2. "Irrigation Monitoring Using Soil Water Tension"
CC. Shock, R. Flock, E. Feibert, C.A. Shock, A. Pereira, and L. Jenson
OSU, EM 8900 (2005)
http://extension.oregonstate.edu/catalog/pdf/em/em8900.pdf


3. "Irrometer Automation and Output Options"
http://www.irrometer.com/datasheets/59.pdf


4. Irrometer LT tensiometer:
tech sheet: http://www.irrometer.com/pdf/IRROMETERs/109 Model LT Web 8.pdf


5. Irrometer website:
http://www.irrometer.com/sensors.html#irro

(capatance sensors; aka volumetric moisture sensors; and info on water tension from the first PDF below)


6. "Revisiting the Measurement of Plant Available Water in Soilless Substrates"
Félix R. Arguedas, John D. Lea-Cox and Andrew G. Ristvey
SNA Research Conference Vol. 52 2007
(attached to this post; about volumetric moister sensors, aka capacitance sensors, and tensiometers)


"Calibration of Capacitance Sensors to Precisely Measure Water Availability in Soilless Substrates"
Félix R. Arguedas
Department of Plant Sciences and Landscape Architecture,
University of Maryland (2008)
http://www.usawaterquality.org/conferences/2008/pdf/Rural/ArguedasMD08.pdf

 

[spurr]

Predation (microbial loop) is not the same as nutrient mineralization per say; the latter is (basically) when microflora solublize ions from organic matter.

I have wrestled with this terminology having read a number of studies/reviews which refer to the nutrient release derived from bacterial predation as 'mineralization.'

E.G. Microfaunal stimulation of nitrogen mineralization via the microbial loop was suggested as the main underlying mechanism (Clarholm, 1985; Griffiths, 1994; Zwartet al.,1994).

Hey MM,

Yup, I agree, it is not black and white. The strict definition of mineralization is pretty broad, and includes when microflora and roots breakdown OM and release some ions in the process; and when predators eat microflora and release some ions in the process. I prefer to use mineralization only for the process of microflora and roots breaking down OM because it makes for less ambiguity when discussing ions in media in biological organic horticulture.

I think there needs to be a separate term for the process of releasing ions during predation verses releasing ions from microflora and roots breaking down (solublizing) OM. That is why I refer to the freeing of ions from predation as the microbial loop, and the freeing of ions from breaking down OM as mineralization. Just my own vocabulary to reduce what I see as ambiguity; I could be off-course though, and get yelled at by soil scientists

Here are some other studies and books that also use the term mineralization for the process of freeing ions during predation and/or the process of freeing ions by microflora and roots breaking down OM:

(the total freed ions in media would be the sum of mineralization; so maybe a new term for ions from microbial loop and a new term for ions from microflora and roots, is in order...?)

"Protozoa and Plant Growth: The Microbial Loop in Soil Revisited"
Michael Bonkowski
New Phytologist, Vol. 162, No. 3 (Jun., 2004), pp. 617-631


"The “soil microbial loop” is not always needed to explain protozoan stimulation of
plants"
Flemming Ekelunda, Stephane Sajb, Mette Vestergårda, Joanne Bertauxc and Juha Mikola
Soil Biology and Biochemistry, Volume 41, Issue 11, November 2009, Pages 2336-2342


"Soil microbial loop and nutrient uptake by plants: a test using a coupled C:N model of plant–microbial interactions"
Xavier Raynaud, Jean-Christophe Lata and Paul W. Leadley
Plant and SoilVolume 287, Numbers 1-2, 95-116 (2006)


"Encyclopedia of soil science, Volume 1"
By R. Lal
CRC Press, 2006


"Environmental microbiology"
By Raina M. Maier, Ian L. Pepper, Charles P. Gerba
Academic Press, 2009​

 

[spurr]

I'm so geeked about what my worms are producing it is hard to contain my enthusiasm.

Then you have a very appropriate avatar

 

[Microbeman]

One bonus of watering the way Spurr has recommended is that you gain a better intamacy with your plants to have a better look at what is going on. e.g. maladies or pests.

 

[Mezz Mezzrow]

Then you have a very appropriate avatar

 

[CT Guy]

One bonus of watering the way Spurr has recommended is that you gain a better intamacy with your plants to have a better look at what is going on. e.g. maladies or pests.

I just also happen to know I suck at watering....Maybe I'll keep them as a backup in case I go on vacation. Got them pretty cheap on ebay for around $4 each. I'll experiment with my houseplants to start.

 

[heady blunts]

spurr- it seems to me that the blumats turn on at different moisture levels depending on how you adjust the tension on the dripper valves. there is not a set % of moisture that triggers the sensor to open.

also, i understand your concern about the depth of the sensor. they do make a "maxi" blumat that positions the sensor considerably further beneath the soil's surface. however, i have the standard blumat system and in combination with airpots and mulch i feel they maintain a very even moisture level throughout the container.

MM is right though, auto watering is no reason to spend less time with your plants. they love attention

 

[spurr]

One bonus of watering the way Spurr has recommended is that you gain a better intamacy with your plants to have a better look at what is going on. e.g. maladies or pests.

Very true.

 

[spurr]

spurr- it seems to me that the blumats turn on at different moisture levels depending on how you adjust the tension on the dripper valves. there is not a set % of moisture that triggers the sensor to open.

Adjustment of the drippier valve only adjusts the water flow, AFAIK. The clay cone is what triggers the water to drip, or not to drip. The clay cone is similar to the older style to a "gypsum block" moisture sensors. The clay is moist, and as the clay drys out it equates to a drying of the media (lower moister content) thus the water is allowed to flow, and conversely, as the clay becomes wetter the water flow is reduced and finally stopped (ex., but the cone in a cup of water). So that means at some point (percent moisture content) the cone triggers the water to drip, or not to drip. That is at least my understanding of how it works, and I don't see how it could work otherwise; but I should know for sure tomorrow after I hear back form the makers of Blumat.

also, i understand your concern about the depth of the sensor. they do make a "maxi" blumat that positions the sensor considerably further beneath the soil's surface. however, i have the standard blumat system and in combination with airpots and mulch i feel they maintain a very even moisture level throughout the container.

But what is the moisture content of the media? That is a key question, and we don't want the media to stay at X moisture content all the time, esp. if it's 55-65%; we want a bit of flux from less moist to more moist.

 

[spurr]

I just also happen to know I suck at watering....Maybe I'll keep them as a backup in case I go on vacation. Got them pretty cheap on ebay for around $4 each. I'll experiment with my houseplants to start.

Watering only takes a bit of practice, then you'll get the hang of it. Using a tensiometer is your best and least expensive bet, that way you will know when it's time to water by the water tension of the media. Ex., water when the tension is ~5-8 kPa, and when your done watering the tension will be ~1 kPa (or a bit higher).

Using a single moisture sensor of any kind in one container, for a gauge of when to water all containers, works best when all the media is handled and watered the same way, and the plants are clones. Otherwise, it's good to use a few moisture sensors in a couple of containers.

Also, it's a good idea to use two moisture sensors in one container, ex., a long tensiomter and a short tensiometer. That way you can know the variation of moisture throughout the media, e.g., near the top-middle and near the middle-bottom.

People have success with Blumat, so I am sure it works, but I am also sure it's not the best method.

 

[mad librettist]

are blumats like plant nannies?

I gotta say, with plant nannies on your plants you have lots of room for error, and you can let the soil dry out a bit more, since so many roots surround the clay spike.

 

[spurr]

Mad,

Nope, they are unlike plant nannies; Blumat uses a clay cone to gauge moisture status of media. Once media moisture status is at a low point the blumat opens a valve (or something similar) on a drip line and water is emitted out of the drip line (hose). Once the media moisture status is at a high point the Blumat closes the valve (or something similar). The key questions are: "what are the low and high points?"

If I was going to use Blumat I would setup a circle with the drip line for more homogeneous watering of media.